This is a moral judgment that requires faith in the absolute efficacy of rationalism/skepticism. Pot, meet kettle.

spmat on October 22, 2007 at 10:40 AM

The old Christian trope, “You have to have MORE faith to be an atheist!” rears its ugly head. It’s respite for those who know that having faith is incredibly retarded in the first place.

Would it be useful at this point to ask, “Where did I claim that I thought that rationalism/skepticism had absolute efficacy?”? Of course not. Your accusation is merely rhetoric and projection.

Let it be shown that your response ignored my questions in lieu of making a personal attack.

Faith is a character flaw.

Loundry on October 22, 2007 at 10:31 AM

This is a moral judgment that requires faith in the absolute efficacy of rationalism/skepticism. Pot, meet kettle.

The problem with atheists is that they think they are more enlightened because they don’t believe in something that can not be proven.

jihadwatcher on October 20, 2007 at 8:52 PM

There are plenty of atheists who regard themselves as enlightened. But let us not forget from whom the phrase “I have seen the light” most frequently emanates.

And proof is not something I’m looking for when it comes to Christianity. I’m looking for mere evidence. For instance:

1. What is the evidence that Jesus Christ existed and did what the Bible claimed he did?

2. What is the evidence that the Bible is the perfect word of a divine being?

And those are the things that you consider yourself enlightened for believing in spite of insufficient or contradictory evidence.

Faith is a character flaw.

Popular fiat is what has Ayan Hirsi Ali under armed guard. A popular fiat determined both by the irrational and violent rejection of liberty among religious zealots and the quiet and embarrassed rejection of liberty among wholly irreligious effetes.

Hitchens thinks that’s wrong, and so it is. Now let’s see him enforce it. He’s not exactly leading an army on this one.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Let me ask this: if freedom exists and is self-evident apart from any divine justification, does it exist apart from the human race? When man is gone, who will be free?

Is man still free if he choses not to be? If so, how is that freedom if one cannot sovereignly reject it? If not, and all men chose to be slaves, does freedom still exist?

It would seem that the wholesale rejection of God requires quite a bit of intellect to accept and maintain. Why is that?

I’m home schooling my kid now. It’s costing me a fortune, but it’s worth it, and the online school she attends takes credit cards.

Jaynie59 on October 21, 2007 at 6:02 PM

If you ever get in a real bind, just let us know.

aengus on October 21, 2007 at 9:38 PM

I quote them because they are not “theoligians”. They don’t have “a dog in the fight” so to speak. I do not think that what they say is irrefutable, just hard to logically refute.

there is no difference between God and Satan

Which comes across as “no difference between good and evil”.

No wonder nobody takes “athiest morality” seriously.

csdeven on October 21, 2007 at 4:37 PM

That’s what believers in God don’t understand. To me, there is no difference between God and Satan. Why would there be? There is no difference between Santa Claus and God. Why would there be?

You know what God is. I don’t. I only know what you tell me he is. All I have is your word for it. And you know what? None of you can agree. There is nothing funnier to an Atheist than two Christians going at it. It’s like watching two Superman fans argue about two different editions of the same comic book.

I’ll tell you the same thing I tell gay rights activists:

I don’t care what you believe. I don’t care what you do. Just leave me out of it, and stay away from the public schools with your beliefs.

Actually, I don’t have to say that last part anymore because I’m home schooling my kid now. It’s costing me a fortune, but it’s worth it, and the online school she attends takes credit cards.

At least atheists don’t think that believers are going to eternal hell.

MB4 on October 21, 2007 at 4:10 PM

Did I claim atheists were going to eternal hell somewhere?

Jaynie59 on October 21, 2007 at 3:29 PM

Atheists have their own type of morality based on their absolutes. They would do better if they would allow that those of faith have absolutes also. Our society is based on a belief in God and we reject Satan. For you to suggest that Satanism or Wicken beliefs be given equal standing would be like someone demanding that a system of geometry be taught in schools that is at odds with the system we have that works. You can complain that it isn’t right and doesn’t work, but that is the same argument that people of faith use when the idea that Satanism is of equal standing.

There are absolutes. Atheists have them and so do people of faith. Both would do well to respect the absolutes of the other.

no religious basis is necessary

Nice theory Einstien. In practice, not so much.

Having different beliefs and saying so …

There there. Poor baby. There is a difference between saying “I don’t believe … ”

And … “You guys are MORONS”

boris on October 21, 2007 at 4:11 PM

… mock decent people’s beliefs, its abusive.

At least atheists don’t think …

So mocking = thinking ???

No wonder nobody takes “athiest morality” seriously.

they could not even if they wanted to

So your intolerance is harmless and theirs is ineffective. How reassuring. Still if you want to claim your “morality” is just as good how come it so isn’t?

I just see no reason to mock decent people’s beliefs, its abusive.

Bad Candy on October 21, 2007 at 3:52 PM

At least atheists don’t think that believers are going to eternal hell.

don’t even think about having a Wiccan or a Satanist

So Satanism and Christianity are equivalent ???

No wonder nobody takes “athiest morality” seriously.