Not so shocking: Hip Hop awards show honors ‘Jena 6′

posted at 10:46 am on October 19, 2007 by Bryan

Over at Newsbusters, Noel Sheppard gives you the basics and the video clip:

In an era of shocking things, this has to be one of the most shocking: at the Hip Hop Awards aired on Black Entertainment Television Thursday, two members of the ‘Jena Six’ were actually introduced to help present the Video of the Year honors to Kanye West.

The two were feted, applauded, etc. And, unfortunately, it’s not shocking.

It’s nothing more than the kind of thing that Bill Cosby is out there railing against and taking flak for speaking out: Apologia for criminals, glorification of gangsta culture, and the rest. Celebrating the Jena 6 is part and parcel of that. Before this is over, the Jena 6 will probably join Mumia as cause celebres who don’t deserve the adulation that many misguided people will heap on them.

There is some good news to be found in this story, though. One, is that we have Bill Cosby speaking out. Two, he’s not alone.

But the criticism has been extensive, including comments from those who said they made the trek to Jena for the rally.

“They can find somebody else to march for them (be)cause I will not be there the next time, and whoever invited them to this should be slapped,” one person wrote on the BET blog. “(You’re) not setting a good example for the justice that everyone is fighting for. You look like the thugs they said the Jena 6 are. Thanks for making us look stupid!”

Of all the many things that the Jena 6 don’t deserve, hero status is certainly one of them.

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Ugh. The “documentary” of this whole thing can’t be far behind.

Sir Loin on October 19, 2007 at 10:48 AM

Someone on my blog commented that they wonder what would happen if the ones responsible for the nooses would have been asked to present on the Country Music Awards.

Rightwingsparkle on October 19, 2007 at 10:49 AM

The THUGGERY awards! Maybe they can beat some white kid down instead of having live performances?

Gatordoug on October 19, 2007 at 10:51 AM

Mark my words, the criminal justice system will see these kids again. Their lives of crime have barely begun. When you are allowed to break the law with impunity, it does not teach you to respect the law.

JayHaw Phrenzie on October 19, 2007 at 10:53 AM

This is really not that shocking.
They still glorify a man that made his career about his proclivity towards violence and drug dealing and how awesome it is to be a gangsta.
Until he got shot to bits in Las Vegas that is.

SouthernDem on October 19, 2007 at 10:55 AM

And in other news, the sky is blue. Typical.

robblefarian on October 19, 2007 at 10:59 AM

The “Jena Six” are not being celebrated by the hip-hop community in spite of the fact that they stomped a white kid into a coma, rather, they are being celebrated because of it.

Jimmy the Dhimmi on October 19, 2007 at 11:02 AM

I patiently await the humble apologies from the HotAir race-baiters who were so filled with angst that these fine young men were oppressed by Whitey and the Racist KKK down in Jena.

Apparently, and in good faith, you were mistaken, and these young black men are in fact punk thugs, just as the prosecutor had suggested, and were thrown in jail and prosecuted because they jumped a kid and beat him up pretty bad, which is against the law, even if you’re black…

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 11:04 AM

And in other news, the sky is blue. Typical.

robblefarian on October 19, 2007 at 10:59 AM

Here in Chicago, the sun rose this morning, right on schedule!

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 11:05 AM

These ‘artists’ are a grotesque Jolson-esque self-parody, they might as well put on the white gloves and sing Mammy.

Self-immolation at its most degrading.

Ochlan on October 19, 2007 at 11:07 AM

Ugh. The “documentary” of this whole thing can’t be far behind.

I’m surprised that Spike Lee hasn’t finished his feature film version yet.

Maybe Bush stole his cameras while distracting people by bombing the levees in New Orleans.

saint kansas on October 19, 2007 at 11:07 AM

Rightwingsparkle on October 19, 2007 at 10:49 AM

The Country Music “community” would never celebrate that act though.

Gatordoug on October 19, 2007 at 11:08 AM

Speaking of nooses, we never heard anything more from Columbia University, have we?

BohicaTwentyTwo on October 19, 2007 at 11:08 AM

Did anyone else notice who the thug in the video did NOT send a “shout-out” to. Yes, his FATHER.
Should it surprise us that when fathers do not matter, thuggish behavior follows?

Gatordoug on October 19, 2007 at 11:10 AM

“Thanks for making us look stupid”

Yeah, that true, they sure did. But blacks need to get over this whole ‘what one guy does represents ALL of us and we must all defend him, right or wrong’ thing. It seems to me that whites don’t have this attitude. To qoute Ann Coulter in her new book, speaking about Timothy McVeigh: “Our only tough choice was needle, gas or Old Sparky”. (Paraphrasing)

Tony737 on October 19, 2007 at 11:10 AM

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 11:04 AM

Are you talking about my post on Jena, Jaibones? If so, you might want to go back and re-read it.

Bryan on October 19, 2007 at 11:12 AM

Maybe Laura can’t type any comments in because her hands are sore from wringing them so hard.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 11:13 AM

Dig that crazy logic:

“We are by no means condoning a six-on-one beatdown… Having said that…”

Here they are, on stage, our special guests! Cheer! Applaud! Standing o! Here’s a microphone and a TV camera…

saint kansas on October 19, 2007 at 11:13 AM

These ‘artists’ are a grotesque Jolson-esque self-parody, they might as well put on the white gloves and sing Mammy.

Self-immolation at its most degrading.

Ochlan on October 19, 2007 at 11:07 AM

Amen.

The only shocking thing about this is that in the span of 50 years the heroes of black America have gone from Stevie Wonder and Rosa Parks to Kanye West and the Jena 6.

12thman on October 19, 2007 at 11:13 AM

I will have to reserve comment on these punks young men. Nor will I go so far as to say BET constantly glorifies the Hip-Hop lifestyle of gangstas, bling and rampant sex.

I don’t want to be labeled a racist.

fogw on October 19, 2007 at 11:14 AM

Societys are destroyed from within when the laws and culture which dictate action, are no longer respected.

The fact is that you cannot enforce all laws, all the time. Most people are law abiding because the see the benefits we get from a law abiding society, and have been taught that this is the correct action.

Celebrate lawlessness… forgive it… show that not only are you not condemed for it, but praised for it, and the breakdown of law and order is not far behind…

Amnesty for illegals… these thugs… Hill Clintons illegal campaign shenanigans… Sandy Burger… OJ… Spears… all of these are widely known cases that our CHILDREN are learning from.

Romeo13 on October 19, 2007 at 11:18 AM

I don’t want to be labeled a racist

I no longer care. ‘Racism’ has long-since been mis-defined away into meaninglessness.

I’ll speak my mind, and the race whores can blow ‘racist’ out their ass.

Ochlan on October 19, 2007 at 11:30 AM

Did anyone else notice who the thug in the video did NOT send a “shout-out” to. Yes, his FATHER.
Should it surprise us that when fathers do not matter, thuggish behavior follows?

Gatordoug on October 19, 2007 at 11:10 AM

I noticed it. This whole event is like a breathing illustration of my point from the Bill Cosby thread.

Without fathers or other strong possitive role models young boys and men will look to pop culture unless we show them another path.

12thman on October 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

Mark my words, the criminal justice system will see these kids again. Their lives of crime have barely begun. When you are allowed to break the law with impunity, it does not teach you to respect the law.

JayHaw Phrenzie on October 19, 2007 at 10:53 AM

No doubt.

But they’ll need presenters for MTV too.

drjohn on October 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

A standing ovation?? *big sigh*

And isn’t it ironic that the winner of the award in question, Mr. Crybaby, makes it two slaps in the face for “the man” for the price of one…

JetBoy on October 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

That thud was my keyster hitting the floor, after I laughed it off.

How many times a year do they have these award shows? I remember watching part of one back in April or May. I think watching these clowns preen and “pose” for these award shows is the funniest darn thing on television.

Have some respect for yourself!

reaganaut on October 19, 2007 at 11:38 AM

I don’t know man, if a couple of ignorant pricks tried to make veiled threats using props against my heritage, I’d probably stomp their face in, too.

That doesn’t make it right, though.

Vincenzo on October 19, 2007 at 11:44 AM

Without fathers or other strong possitive role models young boys and men will look to pop culture unless we show them another path.

12thman on October 19, 2007 at 11:36 AM

Sad. No, not sad, tragic. And even worse is the influence of Sharpton, Jackson, and the other race-baiters who EXCUSE any behavior.

Gatordoug on October 19, 2007 at 11:45 AM

Ochlan on October 19, 2007 at 11:30 AM

Harumph!

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 11:45 AM

Bryan on October 19, 2007 at 11:12 AM

No. I don’t recall you defending this trash.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 11:48 AM

This destroys any and all credibility that these two had. What kind of parents allow this? Oh yeah, the kind of parents that raise their kids to believe it’s OK to gang up on a kid and beat him senseless.

csdeven on October 19, 2007 at 11:54 AM

Mark my words, the criminal justice system will see these kids again. Their lives of crime have barely begun. When you are allowed to break the law with impunity, it does not teach you to respect the law.

JayHaw Phrenzie on October 19, 2007 at 10:53 AM

One of them already had a long record.

Esthier on October 19, 2007 at 11:55 AM

disapointing to say the least. Honoring them misses the entire point as to why Jenna is significant. Are these kids heroes? No. Were the events in Jenna illuminating as to the bs blacks still have to deal with in America? Yes.

crr6 on October 19, 2007 at 11:58 AM

Vincenzo on October 19, 2007 at 11:44 AM

Judging from your name…what prop would do the trick?

Fake horses head maybe?

;-)

Ochlan on October 19, 2007 at 11:59 AM

two members of the ‘Jena Six’ were actually introduced to help present the Video of the Year honors to Kanye West.

They just had to dig this deep to find whiny losers with enough of a sense of entitlement to match the award winner.

James on October 19, 2007 at 12:02 PM

I was referring to this –

and leave it to HA to somehow make this about reverse racism.

crr6 on September 21, 2007 at 11:50 AM

– and this –

whoever put that noose up deserved to get stomped on

The Sinner on September 21, 2007 at 5:24 PM

– and this —

You can choose to believe what i say or not, but this issue of Jena can be more explosive than Katrina. I thought katrina was overblown, and I didn’t think it was as big a deal as it was made out to be, but with this case, I’m definitely pissed. I hope conservatives don’t get into the position of being seen as defending what is going on down there. … This is serious stuff…and the nooses are the cause of it. I know you guys probably don’t get it, I don’t blame you, but don’t be seen as defending it.

Chudi on September 21, 2007 at 4:58 PM

Just to clarify. Nothing to do with your post.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 12:25 PM

Bryan (see above)

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 12:25 PM

This will surely help the Reparations cause.

HA!

omnipotent on October 19, 2007 at 12:30 PM

Only in America…

Tim Burton on October 19, 2007 at 12:41 PM

I patiently await the humble apologies from the HotAir race-baiters who were so filled with angst that these fine young men were oppressed by Whitey and the Racist KKK down in Jena.

Would you feel it were fair for 6 white boys to be charged with attempted murder for beating up a black kid at school? Or how about a white boy to be charged with theft for disarming a black boy of a shotgun who was threatening him? I love how everyone makes snap judgements about these kids too, calling them “thugs” who beat up an innocent child etc….What they did was no worse than what white students did earlier but nobody calls them thugs. Where does all this built up resentment towards blacks come from? This is a case where they were clearly treated unfairly yet hald the people on this site somehow twist it into reverse racism. What a joke.

crr6 on October 19, 2007 at 12:49 PM

Couple of thoughts.
(1) Bad move to honor these guys. No argument.
(2) Anyone who didn’t get a chance to watch the Cosby interview with Russert should read the transcript at
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21293963/
It was a fascinating interview.

Two particularly interesting observations.

MR. COSBY: Let’s deal first with what people call the systemic—the, the racism that exists in this country, which is absolutely for real. But people just say it. They say, “Well, there’s systemic and institutional racism.” “What do you mean by that?” Well, what I mean is that the power structure can stop a person from getting a better education. It can stop them from living in better conditions. It can stop improvements from being made. For instance, if you have a slum landlord, if you’re lower, lower economic, to get that fixed, to bring the law in on this person, it, it just doesn’t happen. If police decide to ride in and arrest, if laws are made to go against you, I mean, this kind of thing is very, very hurtful. And then we move into areas of health, health care, where racism can stop a person from getting immediate attention…

MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask about that–(clears throat) excuse me—because you write about gangster rap in your book. And this is from page 144. Let’s look at it: The “Gangsta rap promotes the widespread use of N-word to sell CDs among people of all ethnic groups. In fact, the audience for gangsta rap is made up predominantly of white youth, who get a vicarious thrill from participating in a black thug fantasy, including the degradation of women. Black youth, as well as some misguided adults, have defended the use of the N-word, suggesting they are somehow making it a positive term.
“Don’t fall for that nonsense. The N-word is a vile symbol of our oppression by slave masters.”

(3) 70% of the rap music sold is bought by white kids.
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20070919_HIP-HOP_MUSICS_WHITE_ENABLERS.html

Cosby had quite a bit to say about why rap music is bad for women particularly.
(4) Just out of curiousity for those with kids, how do you handle the explicit lyrics and music issue?

Bradky on October 19, 2007 at 1:07 PM

reverse racism

Wouldn’t that be when a white guy says how superior blacks are?

No genital jokes please

Ochlan on October 19, 2007 at 1:24 PM

If Bill O’Reilly were to note on his show that the Black Entertainment Network hosted the Hip Hop awards show, showcasing Hip Hop culture and celebrating two thugs– would Media Matters call him racist?

MayBee on October 19, 2007 at 1:29 PM

This is a case where they were clearly treated unfairly yet hald the people on this site somehow twist it into reverse racism. What a joke.

crr6 on October 19, 2007 at 12:49 PM

A few things…

I agree that the Jena 6 were treated unfairly, but I wouldn’t argue that what they did is the same as what happened to them.

Yes, one black kids was jumped by several white kids, but he didn’t spend hours in the hospital.

Yes, the shotgun thing was messed up, but depending on whose story you hear, the kid got the shotgun because he was being chased by the other kids.

I’m sure racism was involved in this story, but its been built into something bigger than it is. The Jena 6 are still a group of kids who assaulted another boy. They shouldn’t be made into martyrs.

Esthier on October 19, 2007 at 2:18 PM

Maybe Laura can’t type any comments in because her hands are sore from wringing them so hard.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 11:13 AM

Actually, I was working and just now read this post, Jaibones. If you want to make it personal with me – someone who is essentially on the side as you in just about every other issue on this blog – you go right ahead and enjoy yourself.

My first comment in the original post suggested that people tone it down because Barker wasn’t nearly as badly hurt as rumors suggest. I say that because I have his medical records as entered into the court records, and gave them to Joe Carter to post at Evangelical Outpost. He’s since taken them down. Barker was not in a coma at any time, nor was he “beaten half to death” or any of the other rhetoric that’s been tossed around. He was briefly unconscious, but was awake and alert by the time the ambulance got to the school. His CT scan was negative. Even today, no permanent injuries have been reported, and I read through months of his follow up care, which was essentially negative – nothing much to report except the swelling had gone down. Bottom line – he wasn’t seriously hurt, and his injuries are directly relevant to the charges, under Louisiana law, so accuracy here is important.

Furthermore, according to the victim’s two friends who took part in the fight, it wasn’t a 6 on 1 beating. I take their testimony very seriously. They’re not interested in defending the Jena 6, but their testimony does tend to support the idea that these charges were unfair.

I also said in that first comment that “The Jena 6 should be charged (appropriately), tried (fairly, with attorneys who actually defend them, unlike Blane Williams), and if necessary sentenced – in line with how white people are sentenced for similar crimes.”

Life isn’t binary. These kids can simultaneously be thugs and be unfairly charged. Justin Barker can simultaneously be the victim of an attack, and a troublemaking punk who was stirring up crap an hour before the attack. The choices here should not be “set them free” or “lock them up for life.” That’s ridiculous. A crime was committed – there was no excuse for beating Barker. But that doesn’t mean Reed Walter’s hands are clean, and that he should get off scot free.

This case is an emotional one, and a lot of bad information was put out from the beginning; some I mistakenly perpetuated, some that I corrected. I did my best to get the truth out there by making the medical records, witness statements, and other information available. People can do with it what they will, but after reviewing all that information, I’m satisfied that Mychal Bell didn’t receive a fair trial and that Reed Walters deliberately over-charged the Jena 6. I don’t particularly care whether or not you agree.

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 2:32 PM

Ochlan on October 19, 2007 at 11:30 AM

If seeing criminal behavior for what it is (criminal behavior, duh!), makes me ‘racist’ then count me in as well.

infidel4life on October 19, 2007 at 2:45 PM

Yes, one black kids was jumped by several white kids, but he didn’t spend hours in the hospital.

Yes, the shotgun thing was messed up, but depending on whose story you hear, the kid got the shotgun because he was being chased by the other kids.

Esthier on October 19, 2007 at 2:18 PM

According to the local paper, the black kid was NOT jumped by multiple white kids… which is why only ONE kid was brought up on charges… and it was a fair face to face fight.

WAY different than being hit from behind, knocked out, then kicked by SIX people, without apparent provocation.

If people can’t see the difference between the two cases, then THEY are the racists.

Romeo13 on October 19, 2007 at 2:46 PM

Thugs presenting an award to a no talent thug wanna-ba. Oh for the good old days when Motown produced music that everyone loved, no matter what race, or color, they were. I blame blacks for embraceing, and allowing ganster mentality, and really BAD music to replace Jazz, Blues, Gospel, R&R, and all the other real forms of music that were a source of pride for blacks. I’ve just never understood why Real black musicians don’t say, This shit SUCKS! to quote a bad song. HEY! MUST BE THE MONEY!

Masscon on October 19, 2007 at 2:46 PM

He was briefly unconscious…

If you beat someone to the point of losing consciousness, that’s deadly serious…you should be looking at hard time…attempted murder.

Ochlan on October 19, 2007 at 2:47 PM

Correction – Thug Wanna-be

Masscon on October 19, 2007 at 2:47 PM

Justin Barker can simultaneously be the victim of an attack, and a troublemaking punk who was stirring up crap an hour before the attack.

Let’s be clear on this one though. All he did was rag on someone who was beaten by someone else.

He didn’t hang the nooses and didn’t beat anyone.

Even though I went to a very tame high school, if that were the qualification for a trouble-maker at my school, we wouldn’t have had a problem in the world.

Kids are insulted all the time. It’s not relevant in a case about a beating.

Esthier on October 19, 2007 at 2:54 PM

This is just unbelievable. Imagine the outcry if it had been six white kids who ganged up on and beat a black kid unconscious. You think anybody would have invited those six kids to present an award?

SoulGlo on October 19, 2007 at 2:54 PM

According to the local paper, the black kid was NOT jumped by multiple white kids… which is why only ONE kid was brought up on charges… and it was a fair face to face fight.

Romeo13 on October 19, 2007 at 2:46 PM

Either way, all I mean by that is that even if the black kid had been jumped just like the white kid was, it still wasn’t exactly the same.

The black kid who was beaten wasn’t even taken to the hospital.

Esthier on October 19, 2007 at 2:57 PM

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 2:32 PM

Good, thoughtful post.

12thman on October 19, 2007 at 3:00 PM

You think anybody would have invited those six kids to present an award?

Point well made…just goes to highlight what abject soulless dogsh!t a certain ‘urban culture’ really is…along with all its enablers.

Ochlan on October 19, 2007 at 3:01 PM

Yeah, but…

Did anyone watch the show?

Lawrence on October 19, 2007 at 3:16 PM

crr6 on October 19, 2007 at 12:49 PM

Weird hyperbole unworthy of a detailed response.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 3:37 PM

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 2:32 PM

That is a thoughtful response; thank you. But, to me, nothing that you have written in either thread persuasively justifies the bizarro-world position of those defending these scumbags for a violent attack. I still cannot understand your repeated efforts to justify your own defense of their actions by minimizing the injuries to Barker — “months later his swelling had gone down”?

If this had been one of my daughters who was attacked from behind, beaten unconcious and then some, and received “months of follow-up care”, there would be nowhere on earth to hide. And yet you use those words as a defense.

I find that quite odd.

My position is the same as it usually is: the law enforcement people in Jena know more about the attack, the attackers, the victim, his injuries, and the events leading to the attack than I will ever know, and so it makes no sense for me to criticize their decisions. If they think an attempted murder charge was appropriate, so be it.

That’s why we have juries, OJ.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 3:53 PM

I don’t want to be labeled a racist.

Like Ochlan, I don’t care anymore, either.

The Jenna 6 are CRIMINALS and brutal thugs. Rather than be issuing awards, these useless f*cks should be in prison.

georgej on October 19, 2007 at 4:01 PM

Do-over: Laura, I used the phrase “your defense of their actions”, and that’s wrong. I know that what you have written is not a “defense of their actions” but more accurately a criticism of the prosecutor’s charges. I stand corrected.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 4:04 PM

Weird hyperbole unworthy of a detailed response.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 3:37 PM

uh huh….

I patiently await the humble apologies from the HotAir race-baiters who were so filled with angst that these fine young men were oppressed by Whitey and the Racist KKK down in Jena.

Now that’s hyperbole.

crr6 on October 19, 2007 at 4:17 PM

Touche.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 4:50 PM

I didn’t not write “months later his swelling had gone down.” You made that up. His swelling went down within a week or two, just as you’d expect, and after that it was just basic follow up, CYA care in my opinion. I am not minimizing Barker’s injuries. I am reporting them accurately.

Again, I don’t particularly care whether you agree, nor do I accept your characterization that this is a “bizarro-world position of those defending these scumbags for a violent attack.” I have repeatedly condemned them for the attack; please work on your reading comprehension. In addition to that, I believe that the evidence clearly backs me up when I say that this was a 5 (possibly 6) on 2 high school brawl. The witness statements by Justin Barker’s two friends – who are the 2 in the 5 (or 6) on 2 – clearly establish that. And you don’t have to take my word or the media’s on what law enforcement in Jena knew about this case – you can read the same witness statements/court docs that I gave to Joe and are still posted at Evangelical Outpost.

JH – Jena 6 Incident 05
“Justin and KR was walking out of the gym when I saw a black boy heard a black boy say something to Justin I turned my head and I saw somebody hit Justin. He fell in between the gym door and the concrete barrier. I saw Robert Bailey kneel down and punch Justin in the head. ES pushed Robert Bailey and he fell. Then Carwin Jones kicked him in the head. Eric pushed Carwin back. I ran over there and Theo Shaw tried to kick him and I pushed Theo Shaw down. I also saw Mychal Bell standing over him. Then somebody yelled teacher and they all ran away. The last person I saw was RB (Bug) standing over him, but I’m not sure if he kicked him or not. Then I saw Coach Lewis kneel down on the ground beside Justin, but I never saw him during the fight.”

Okay, let’s review that -

1. Sombody – almost certainly Bell – hit Barker
2. Barker goes down
3. Robert Bailey gets down on the ground and begins to punch the unconscious Barker in the head
4. ES, Barker’s friend, immediately joins the fray and knocks Bailey down
5. Carwin Jones joins and kicks Barker in the head
6. ES pushes Jones back
7. Our witness, JH, Barker’s friend, jumps in and stops Theo Shaw from kicking Barker
8. “Bug” may have kicked him or according to ES’ statement, stood on his face
9. Somebody yelled “teacher” and they scattered

That’s a fight – a mean, out of control, unfair fight. It’s something which deserves punishment. ES’s statement is consistent with this, as are Barker’s injuries. But when people say “6 on 1 beating” that gives you the idea that 6 people were grouped around Justin Barker’s prone body, simultaneously hitting and kicking him. When people say 6 on 1 beating, they are specifically leaving out the people who took part in the fight defending Justin Barker. Reed Walters did that deliberately. Just as he deliberately exaggerated Barker’s injuries to justify his original charges.

If Reed Walters had originally charged them with the entirely appropriate battery charges instead of attempted murder, they would have been referred to juvenile court and none of us would have heard of any of this. Instead he gamed the system to get them into adult court and keep them locked up for many more years than this high school fight justifies.

If the Jena 6 are the thugs that they seem to be, the justice system will have another crack at them sooner or later. But Walters can’t overcharge them now in order to prevent a potential crime later; that is NOT how our justice system is intended to work. He was out of line, and conservatives ought to be front and center demanding that he be held accountable for it, and that an investigation be held to make sure there is not a pattern of this in Jena – the same town, incidentally, where the DOJ had to shut down the Jena Juvenile Justice Center because of abuse. Accepting the Jena justice system at face value is irresponsible, regardless of the fact that the Jena 6 are not poster children for a new civil rights movement.

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 5:07 PM

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 4:04 PM

I didn’t refresh the page before I responded at 5:07, so I didn’t see your comment. Thank you for clarifying.

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 5:09 PM

If the Jena 6 are the thugs that they seem to be, the justice system will have another crack at them sooner or later. But Walters can’t overcharge them now in order to prevent a potential crime later; that is NOT how our justice system is intended to work. He was out of line, and conservatives ought to be front and center demanding that he be held accountable for it, and that an investigation be held to make sure there is not a pattern of this in Jena – the same town, incidentally, where the DOJ had to shut down the Jena Juvenile Justice Center because of abuse. Accepting the Jena justice system at face value is irresponsible, regardless of the fact that the Jena 6 are not poster children for a new civil rights movement.

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 5:07 PM

I am not sure where you get the idea that Walters was trying to “overcharge them now in order to prevent a potential crime later”, but I haven’t followed the story that closely. And maybe I am unfairly lumping you in with the black racists that I have seen from the beginning of the media circus right up to the carnival of Hip Hop Degenerates shown above.

But your repeated efforts to minimize — yes, of course it is that — both the actions of the criminals and the injuries that resulted are disturbing.

Today it was reported that Bell had four previous criminal convictions, but I don’t know what for. Were they all for violent behavior? If so, then so much for “the justice system will have another crack at them sooner or later”.

Moreover, their supporters are degenerate, and this whole story is just another crystal clear demonstration of the immorality and irresponsibility of a disturbingly large number of black Americans. The Hip Hop degenerates cheering for these two brings back haunting memories of crowds of blacks cheering the OJ verdict.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 6:26 PM

We’ve already seen a couple more incidents where 6 or more gang up on 1 White, you’ll see more now………crime=bling…

ahkjr33 on October 19, 2007 at 7:14 PM

But your repeated efforts to minimize — yes, of course it is that — both the actions of the criminals and the injuries that resulted are disturbing.

You admit you haven’t followed this that closely. You don’t know the details of Bell’s criminal history, you haven’t read the witness statements, and if you did you probably wouldn’t understand the context of them (why ES and JH’s statements are so important), and you haven’t read the medical report that was online so you have no idea what Barker’s injuries actually were or were not.

Yet you feel qualified, based on what knowledge exactly? to accuse me of “minimizing.”

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 7:37 PM

Crime stats based on race are very hard to find with a routine search online, unsurprisingly.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 7:51 PM

Laura, no, I have no followed it “closely”, as I said. I have read quite a few of the published reports, but no court transcripts or depositions. I have read statements of Barker’s as to what his injuries were, and his comments about attending the school event on the night of the attack, which you have repeatedly cited as further evidence to minimize* the extent of his injuries (*ok, I did that just to tweak your nose, sorry).

(Why do you use initials? Is that police lingo? It lends an All the President’s Men sort of feel to this.)

As for Bell’s four previous criminal convictions — to say nothing of his previous criminal arrests without conviction — are you seriously going to cite my ignorance of the specific charges as a (further) defense of him? Save us the drama, Laura — what are they for? Are they somehow exculpatory?

How many criminal convictions have you had, Laura? I have had none, despite 48 years of less than perfect conduct on this earth and no particular guile; I just don’t beat people up, or rape women, or rob stores at gunpoint or any of that bling stuff.

C’mon, Laura, do it. Throw Bell under the bus; that’s where he belongs. Do it.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 8:04 PM

You accuse me of minimizing the injuries although you haven’t seen the medical records and I have. Barker’s not exactly a disinterested party; if you want to believe him go ahead, but I’ll believe what the medical professionals said about his injuries on documents submitted to the court, thanks. If Bryan wants the medical records to post online, I would be glad to send them so you can all read them for yourselves.

You accuse me of minimizing the crime – not at all, unless Justin Barker’s two friends are minimizing it too. I believe their accounts, which are consistent with each other and with Barker’s injuries.

We used initials because these are minors and if their names are not already in the news, we didn’t want them to come up in a Google search for this.

I’m not defending Bell per se, and you’re being an @ss to keep insisting I am. But then you already know that. Once again, and for the record –

The Jena 6 should be charged (appropriately), tried (fairly, with attorneys who actually defend them, unlike Blane Williams), and if necessary sentenced – in line with how white people are sentenced for similar crimes.

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 9:00 PM

you’re being an @ss

Ah…the pursuit of Holiness. I couldn’t help but notice that you didn’t wish to identify the charges in fine young Mr. Bell’s previous criminal convictions. C’mon, you’ve read and studied this case right down to the screws — why was he held in violation of parole and sent to jail? Just more racism from whitey?

Why wasn’t Mychal able to celebrate his violence on the Hip Hop stage before his adoring public?

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 9:06 PM

Deoxyribonucleic acid

SouthernGent on October 19, 2007 at 9:29 PM

I don’t subscribe to that theory.

I believe that he is a dirtball based on learned and supported behavior, and the reinforcement of this behavior by a society that calls him a victim and attacks the prosecutor that would attempt to jail him.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 9:56 PM

You’re still being an @ss. I posted about his criminal record when I first learned about it, but if I were you I’d just google it. My opinion on this case changed over time as new information became available, so if you’re reading my archives looking for “damning” quotes, don’t waste your time. Anything prior to my final Jena 6 post doesn’t necessarily reflect my current opinion of the case.

In any event, it’s clear that it’s useless engaging with you on this topic. Go ahead and have the last word, I won’t respond.

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 10:00 PM

… and if necessary sentenced – in line with how white people are sentenced for similar crimes.

So, give us an example of a similar crime, Laura, where 6 white high school kids jump and beat a black kid — apparently because he’s black — unprovoked, until he is unconscious. Gotta happen all the time, right? What did you call it … a high school brawl?

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 10:00 PM

Hey, that was a tie! I’ll give you the last word — promise!

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 10:02 PM

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 7:51 PM

Try putting DOJ FBI and .gov in your search string. You can find what you are looking for.

Bradky on October 19, 2007 at 10:05 PM

You’re still being an @ss. I posted about his criminal record when I first learned about it, but if I were you I’d just google it.

Laura on October 19, 2007 at 10:00 PM

Well … ok! As long as it’s in the pursuit of Holiness, here goes:

Battery – 12/25/2005
Criminal damage to property – 7/25/2006
Battery – 9/2006
Criminal damage to property – 9/2006

Gosh, now why would the prosecutor take such an aggressive position on prosecuting a young honor roll student like Mychal Bell, just because he got caught up in a good ole high school brawl, like all them boys will do from time to time … ?

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 10:09 PM

Bradky, I appreciate the search tip, as I’m not real good at it, but that’s kind of my point. I have put both doj and fbi into searches, and have in fact found tons of fbi and doj crime stats.

Just nothing usable or readable including violent crime, racial background, and offenders. Lots of info on victims. Maybe I’m just too cynical about government and political correctness to deal with FBI and DOJ on this.

Other, less reputable sources (Vdare) seem to have no trouble sorting through the mess for interesting info, though.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 10:13 PM

Laura, sorry to be so prickly on this. If I didn’t hold you in such high regard, I wouldn’t have bothered jousting with you. Peace be unto you…if it’s any help, I was smiling the whole time.

Jaibones on October 19, 2007 at 10:15 PM

If no one (else) has said it again, most middle-class black Americans view most of BET’s offerings as modern-day minstrelsy. However, that a couple of the Jena 6 father-less perps appeared on a BET show isn’t a surprise to the aforementioned group of Americans.

BET is owned by Viacom.

baldilocks on October 20, 2007 at 1:43 AM

BET is owned by Viacom.

baldilocks on October 20, 2007 at 1:43 AM

And … explain.

Jaibones on October 20, 2007 at 7:15 AM

And … explain.

Jaibones on October 20, 2007 at 7:15 AM

Not sure what needs explaining; only that it’s good to know corporate affiliations.

baldilocks on October 20, 2007 at 1:38 PM