What I should have said is that I have been taught in deadly force classes is that if you make any statement to authorities without an attorney you only say: “I thought that I (or the person you were defending) was in imminent danger of serious physical harm or death.” If asked about the force you used, “I fired (used force) until the threat was eliminated.” That covers both justified self defense and reasonable force questions. After that you probably want an attorney.

Like infidel4life pointed out, very few handgun shooters are going to be lucky to even get most of their rounds center of mass, let alone “shoot to wound”, especially in a low light situation. That type of stress seriously effects proficiency. That is why good handgun training from what I have seen teaches center of mass aim. Advanced handgun in my experience teaches center of mass, pelvic girdle, medulla oblongata, in that order which deals with the body armor issue I think someone else mentioned.

Ochlan on October 18, 2007 at 4:38 PM

Thanks for the clarification. From now on I will practice using that terminology just in case the situation ever presents itself.

“
The Post and Courier story this morning on Omar Brown’s gas station shooting missed a very important point: He lost his partner in the line of duty five years ago after a crazed gunman went on a downtown shooting spree.

Brown and 21-year-old parole violator Antonio Rivers bumped in to each other inside the gas station Monday”.

’nuff said

That’s exactly what I meant and I would agree with the rest of the comment as well.

ha ha…let the pissing contest begin ;-)

Ochlan on October 18, 2007 at 4:40 PM

Ahaha, I couldn’t help myself … I figured the other shootists here would at least chuckle at the wisecrack.

deepdiver on October 18, 2007 at 3:56 PM

In a split-second adrenaline charged situation like that I doubt anyone would have the time to contemplate “shoot to kill” or not. That’s why LEOs are trained to aim for center-of-mass (which just so happens to be where the vital organs are). You’re much more likely to attract a prosecutor’s attention by shooting “too many” rounds than by where you’re aiming.

And as to how the perp survived … well, the officer was using a Glock … = P

ha ha…let the pissing contest begin ;-)

He’s just criticizing the use of the term “shoot to kill” – which I’m very guilty of using – because in a court of law, that language can hang you.

The correct terminology revolves around the concept of “eliminating the threat”.

Of course, if a situation arises that warrants the use of deadly force, I will consider the threat ‘eliminated’ when that person or persons are no longer capable of threatening me – read into that what you will ;-)

deepdiver on October 18, 2007 at 3:56 PMdeepdiver on October 18, 2007 at 3:56 PM

Maybe I misunderstand you, but are you saying a person shouldn’t “shoot to kill” if he/she is threatened in this fashion?
If so, I would strongly disagree. I’ll be damned if I get sued by some SOB who I shoot, after breaking into my house and/or threatening me or my family, because I only wounded him.
There are many stories of juries awarding large settlements to criminals in cases like this.

Suck It Brady Campaign

And as to how the perp survived … well, the officer was using a Glock … = P

I’m just glad that Brown is African-American. If he was a white police officer, the Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson Show would be on it’s way there already.

AZ_Mike on October 18, 2007 at 2:54 PM

Oh you can bet on that.

Also, Rivers was shot 9 times – none life threatning.

scmommy on October 18, 2007 at 12:44 PM

9 times with a .45 and he’s alive? Dude’s either bionic or the luckiest guy on earth.

What the hell was going through that punks tiny mind to cause him to think that settling the matter with a gun was the right course of action?

Ochlan on October 18, 2007 at 1:46 PM

A (failed) attempt at Darwinism?

My instinct would have been to wait to see a gun, or at least cover him and demand to see his hands before I opened fire. Did we ever find out if Rivers really did have a gun?

see-dubya on October 18, 2007 at 12:31 PM

The newspaper article did state that 2 different types of rounds were found at the scene.
I’m just glad that Brown is African-American. If he was a white police officer, the Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson Show would be on it’s way there already.

Here’s another brave dude: KFC manager robbed by a guy with a rifle. Manager was opening safe too slowly, the guy pulls the trigger, but no round was chambered, so the manager grabs the gun and starts a long struggle. Scary stuff, brave manager.

Did the punk seriously think the cop had ‘dissed’ him or something by reaching around him to pick up his purchases?

Yeah and I’ve seen it happen just as easily with me as the disser.
We live in an extremely thin skinned society that has far to much tolerance for random violence.

I have no clue whether or not this punk is a banger but we all should remember that gangs are a tribal society and as such are honor and peer pressure bound to retaliate for any offense and PC is the perfect cause and excuse.

just how little contact it takes to set some people off

I agree with your overall characterization of a trend in our society (sensitized, PC)…but I think that this situation is a sad example of “gangsta nigga” culture.

Did the punk seriously think the cop had ‘dissed’ him or something by reaching around him to pick up his purchases? What the hell was going through that punks tiny mind to cause him to think that settling the matter with a gun was the right course of action?

I bet that punk will be dead within 5 years.

see-dubya on October 18, 2007 at 12:58 PM

As fuzzy as it was, it looked kinda like a compact 9mm to me…the recoil looked light…?

Also, Rivers was shot 9 times – none life threatning.

scmommy on October 18, 2007 at 12:44 PM

He should’ve used both hands….