Shock: Americans less into socialism than the Democrats in Congress
posted at 10:25 am on October 16, 2007 by Bryan
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Harry and Nancy aren’t going to like this:
A slim majority, 52%, agreed with Bush that most benefits should go to children in families earning less than 200% of the federal poverty level — about $41,000 for a family of four. Only 40% said benefits should go to families earning up to $62,000, as the bill written by Democrats and some Republicans would allow.
That means that as long as the facts are out on prominent display, the slimmer side of the SCHIP expansion debate wins, and that’s the president’s side. The result probably explains why the leftwing pundits and bloggers are even more toxic and dishonest than usual on this particular issue, and keep trying to shift the debate back to the family that they’re claiming to be shocked, shocked to see “attacked.” They keep hoping that someone prominent on the right will take the bait and actually attack the Frosts.
There’s a little bit more good news in the poll for the GOP side:
A larger majority, 55%, said they were concerned that the program creates an incentive for families to drop private health coverage for a public program. Bush and Republican opponents have called that a step toward government-run health care. Only 42% said that wasn’t a concern.
Taken together, the results show that while Bush may be losing the political battle with Democrats, he may be winning the policy debate.
Now for the bad news, which comes in two parts. One, generically, the voting public still trusts the Democrats on the issue.
Of those polled, 52% said they have more confidence in Democrats to deal with the issue, compared with 32% for Bush.
I half expect the president to cave as he has done so many times in the past, but there’s a win to be had here if he’ll stand in the way of history and at least whisper “Can’t we slow down a little bit?”
The second part of the bad news has nothing to do with this poll, but it’s an observation about life that’s relevant to this and all other things political.
Gossip is more powerful than truth, a study showed on Monday, suggesting people believe what they hear through the grapevine even if they have evidence to the contrary.
Researchers, testing students using a computer game, also found gossip played an important role when people make decisions, said Ralf Sommerfeld, an evolutionary biologist at the Max Planck Institute in Germany, who led the study.
“We show that gossip has a strong influence… even when participants have access to the original information as well as gossip about the same information,” the researchers wrote in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Most rumors are nonsense, of course, but they have a powerful effect on the decisions people actually make. They’re more powerful than verified facts. “Bush lied, people died” comes to mind as a prime example.
That in mind, I’ll link to Keith Olbermann’s interview with the Frosts last night. It’s a low moment in cable news, an interview in which the Frosts exhibit the photos of their injured children in an attempt to crank the rancor in what ought to have been a civilized debate up to 11.
The interview does end on a comedic note, though, with Halsey Frost’s description of Olbermann as “responsible.” That’s one rumor that will never be verified.
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Their kids are in private schools?
I thought public schools were good enough!
Mcguyver on October 16, 2007 at 10:37 AM
What is up with the photo on the homepage?
terryannonline on October 16, 2007 at 10:47 AM
This lust for socialism that sometimes even infects Republican members of Congress is why conservative voters must vote in the upcoming election. Waiting for the next Reagan simply isn’t going to work.
doufree on October 16, 2007 at 10:48 AM
But Nancy always says she knows what the American People want……..
ctmom on October 16, 2007 at 10:51 AM
These “people” who feed off of gossip have absolutely no interest in any “evidence to the contrary”. They don’t bother to think, investigate, analyze, and draw their own conclusions. They just listen, like the wooden puppetheads they are, and accept what they hear as fact.
That’s the problem.
fogw on October 16, 2007 at 10:51 AM
It doesn’t resize to fit in the column, so it bumps the entire column down below the top stories block.
James on October 16, 2007 at 10:56 AM
If the Frosts are contributing even a couple of hundred dollars a month per kid to that private school (Frost didn’t say the kids were on full scholarships–he said they’re “receiving help” with tuition, so they ARE paying some part of it), they could have chosen to buy health insurance for the kids instead and sent the kids to “free” (i.e. already paid for by tax dollars) public school. $200 per month per kid would be just 12% of the private school’s reported $20K/yr tuition. Think they’re paying less than that? Ok–$100 per month per kid, then. Barely more than 5% of the school’s going rate for tuition. Still, that’s $400 per month spent on school that could have been spent on health coverage. Instead, most of our kids go to public schools AND we pay for our own private health insurance coverage AND we pay for coverage for people like the Frosts so their kids can go to exclusive private schools instead of having insurance. The Frosts don’t see an issue with this? They made economic choices, just like we all do. It’s called opportunity costs and trade-offs. You give something up for the sake of what you value more. Basic Economics 101. But in the Frosts’ case, they don’t think they should have to give up private school for the sake of health care coverage. Why should they? We’re paying!
As for the SCHIP debate in general, I once again bemoan the fact that Bush is not a communicator or an educator. He never takes his case to the people and just explains things in plain terms so they understand what he’s doing and why. It would be so friggin easy in so many cases to get the majority of people on his side–it just drives me nuts that he won’t just talk about things to the people!
aero on October 16, 2007 at 10:59 AM
I think the most disturbing thing in the post is that most people believe rumors over verified facts. If true, if people really are that stupid and dense, then any debate , efforts, bills in congress,nothing will matter. All just window dressing, because we are already dead,done, and finished as a nation, a people, and an ideal.
tomk59 on October 16, 2007 at 11:00 AM
The sad fact is that descent into Socialisim is the natural progression of any society. It makes this country that much more special and unique in all of history.
There is no guarantee that there will ever be a place as free with as much opportunity as we have today. Not on this planet, anyway.
Asher on October 16, 2007 at 11:08 AM
I have dark moments like this too ;-)
Try shooting something, I always feel better
Ochlan on October 16, 2007 at 11:14 AM
Great post as usual, Bryan. Trying and getting free money out of the ‘G’ suprises anyone? Democ-rats love these kind of people. Democ-rats want people dependent on government, even if they taking money illegally or if they really don’t need it. You’re supposed to take advantge of the ‘G’ as any good democ-rat will tell you, that’s what government is for – taking care of the people. They hate it when the public is self sufficient and does the right thing on their own. Wait til Hillary & ‘white trash Willy’ get back in and have 65% of both houses, you’re really going to see some serious socialism in action.
countywolf on October 16, 2007 at 11:21 AM
DAMN! I was looking forward to mandatory 4 PM feedings, 6 PM loyalty oaths, and giving 90% of my earnings to the populus.
Oh, well. I guess I’ll have to live with this evil called DEMOCRACY.
madmonkphotog on October 16, 2007 at 11:22 AM
Ochlan; heh, don’t tempt me.
tomk59 on October 16, 2007 at 11:24 AM
That photo is seriously creepy.
Pod people on the march.
infidel4life on October 16, 2007 at 11:42 AM
Unfortunately, we can’t rely on our schools, colleges, media or politicians to tell us why Americans always despised and feared socialism. Instead, they’re promoting it. Even some of the churches promote it. The dumber and more dependent the masses are, the easier it is for the socialists to wield power. And not enough people are wise enough to resist dependency.
NellE on October 16, 2007 at 11:54 AM
I notice that with all the complaining the Frosts did they didn’t roll out any facts to dispute what concervatives are saying. Doesn’t want to be punished for “sweat equity” in his home? Last I checked paying your debts isn’t being punished.
I cannot think of anything more egregious than showing pictures of those two children in the hospital to drum up sympathy. Beyond disgusting.
“..faceless characters who can’t even sign their own name..”-
Mr. Frost, my name is Pualani Ritter and here is my face.
mauioriginal on October 16, 2007 at 12:39 PM
What the heck do Demos care about the damn proles opinion? Liberals know what is better for people andw ill shove it down their throat regardless
Defector01 on October 16, 2007 at 1:35 PM
It’s not just the people who “don’t bother to think,investigate…” that are buying the liberal lies. Some very educated people who consider it their duty to keep informed (by reading the paper, subscribing to Newsweek, watching nightly news shows, etc.) on the political front ARE NOT GETTING THE WHOLE STORY. It is exhausting trying to tell my very well read friends about the Hillbilly-Hsu story and if I point them to a site like this for the details, they label it “far right” and ask, “if the story is true, why isn’t all over the papers & tv?” These people are smart with advanced degrees and they still, generally, believe that a scandal of that magnitude would be hard to avoid reading or hearing about even in the main-stream-media.
I nearly lost a friend over this because after 9/11 I can no longer separate the person from their politics. When she sent me a fluff piece extolling the virtues of Bill Moyers, I nearly choked as I read it. I followed up with several articles/links to counter it – including even PBS’s own Ombudsman who questions Moyers’ bias. She is the kindest person I know & there have been many issues over the years that we have influenced eachother to change our opinions on. But she and many other friends whose values line up on the conservative side remain completely clueless about media’s tilt to the left. In my humble opinion, that’s an even bigger problem than the one fogw rightly points out.
Ten years ago I thought the same way about the media: of course there some bias, but EVENTUALLY THE TRUTH SURFACES. Because of the “educated ignorance” that is rampant, I feel doomed to at least another 4 years of Clinton high crimes and misdemeanors.
NightmareOnKStreet on October 16, 2007 at 3:23 PM
MoveOn, Media Matters, Team Soros realized that years ago and built their strategy around it.
Repubs are ineffective in this propaganda war when they refuse to adjust to reality. Toodle-Loo, GOP.
petefrt on October 16, 2007 at 8:40 PM
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