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Army captain obtains conscientious objector discharge over “love thy neighbor” instruction

posted at 8:44 pm on October 16, 2007 by Allahpundit
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He couldn’t quite abide the warning about “turning the other cheek” any other way.

Capt. Peter Brown — who served in Iraq for more than a year and was a graduate of the elite U.S. military academy West Point — said in a statement issued by the New York Civil Liberties Union that he was relieved the Army had recognized his beliefs made it impossible for him to serve.

“In following Jesus’ example, I could not have fired my weapon at another human being, even if he were shooting at me,” said Brown, who plans to continue seminary classes he began by correspondence while in Iraq…

Brown said he had no conflict between his faith and military service until after he graduated from West Point in 2004 and began to study scripture and his belief.


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They have similar issues with very religious Jews in israel, more times then not they serve as first responders medically.

Not a huge deal to me.

Defector01 on October 16, 2007 at 8:45 PM

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR = DON’T SHOOT THY NEIGHBOR.

Allahpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:47 PM

I disagree with his interpretation of Christianity, but he did serve honorably in theater for a year – so I don’t really question his motivation. As a graduate of West Point, he’s one of the finest Americans. So be it.

ThackerAgency on October 16, 2007 at 8:48 PM

Why do you disagree? Turn the other cheek = turn the other cheek, no?

Allahpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:49 PM

Check the headline. Love thEy neighbor?

Wingo on October 16, 2007 at 8:53 PM

He should have to pay back the cash it cost us for his BofS he received from Westpoint!

TheSitRep on October 16, 2007 at 8:57 PM

Capt. Peter Brown — who served in Iraq for more than a year and was a graduate of the elite U.S. military academy West Point — said in a statement issued by the New York Civil Liberties Union that he was relieved the Army had recognized his beliefs made it impossible for him to serve.

Er, wouldn’t that have been a good thing to figure out before going to West Point and serving a year in Iraq?

amerpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:58 PM

I’m glad that someone who’s concious advises them against shooting an enemy is no longer in it.

Jay on October 16, 2007 at 8:59 PM

Why did he need a discharge exactly? There are plenty of non-combat roles that he could have been moved to.

Shivv on October 16, 2007 at 8:59 PM

It would have been better to figure this out before though.

Jay on October 16, 2007 at 8:59 PM

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR = DON’T SHOOT THY NEIGHBOR.

EVEN THOUGH THY NEIGHBOR IS INCLINED TO CHOP OFF THY HEAD.

RedWinged Blackbird on October 16, 2007 at 8:59 PM

So after four years of education that American tax dollars pay for, which normally means 6 years of service minimum, he gets out after half of that because he developed an objection after he deployed? I’m a Christian and a soldier, and do not believe that they exist in contradiction to one another, and, personal opinion, something doesn’t add up.

Spc Steve on October 16, 2007 at 9:01 PM

Brown and the Army are confused and buying into the unlearned “pop Christian culture”.

http://www.gac.20m.com/self-def.htm

AZ_Redneck on October 16, 2007 at 9:01 PM

Something doesn’t add up, but the military added this objection for a reason.

Jay on October 16, 2007 at 9:02 PM

Context is important. “Love thy neighbor” can equal “don’t shoot thy neighbor.” But it can also equal “don’t let thy neighbor get shot if you have the means to prevent it from happening.”

I respect Capt. Brown for making that decision, as I respect all the others who decide that greater love is shown by laying down their life for their fellow man. Both decisions are right according to scripture.

Wingo on October 16, 2007 at 9:02 PM

This is the flip-side of how I realized I wasn’t a Christian. I lack the capacity to forgive and love a neighbor who’s blowing up or lopping off the heads of innocent people.

flipflop on October 16, 2007 at 9:07 PM

Er, wouldn’t that have been a good thing to figure out before going to West Point and serving a year in Iraq?

I guess where I come down on this story is that Capt. Brown did things by the book after he decided he was a conscientious objector. How unlike his fellow 0-3 brethren in the news who have simply refused to deploy.

highhopes on October 16, 2007 at 9:07 PM

Sergent Alvin York had the same struggle.

Zorro on October 16, 2007 at 9:07 PM

They had a case of a doctor in the first gulf war who suddenly decided he was gay. They let him out but he had to pay back 70K for the medical training the military had given him.

Er, wouldn’t that have been a good thing to figure out before going to West Point and serving a year in Iraq?

amerpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:58 PM

He would have been only 18 when he left for West Point. A lot changes in four or five years.

Bradky on October 16, 2007 at 9:09 PM

Not big on the line-by-line scripture but we all take from it what we will…

Sermon on the Mount…

Mark 5-21/22
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgement:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother WITHOUT A CAUSE shall be in danger of the judgement:

Ok….now as a disclaimer this comes from a ‘not every Sunday Christian’….just the way I prefer it.

The man is entitled to his opinion. Now let’s lock and load and move on.

Limerick on October 16, 2007 at 9:10 PM

Jesus was a coward? Who knew?

HerrMorgenholz on October 16, 2007 at 9:15 PM

Brown said he had no conflict between his faith and military service until after he graduated from West Point in 2004 and began to study scripture and his belief.

How convenient.

Well I recall, not after putting the tax payers to 4 years of expensive collage level training, but after only about two days into basic and studying KP for about 24 hours, after volunteering for the draft, thinking whoops well I made my bed, not thinking that I could have a do-over.

How ridiculous.

MB4 on October 16, 2007 at 9:15 PM

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR = DON’T SHOOT THY NEIGHBOR.

Allahpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:47 PM

Ask not what you can do for you country, ask what your country can do for you.
- Ydennek Dlaregztif Nhoj

MB4 on October 16, 2007 at 9:20 PM

Haven’t we gone over this…a few times and from multiple angles…at Hot Air?

nailinmyeye on October 16, 2007 at 9:21 PM

Why do you disagree? Turn the other cheek = turn the other cheek, no?

Allahpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:49 PM

No, things are almost never what they seem in ancient languages. I explained this to you already but you never bother to pay attention. That verse doesn’t even matter in our culture at all.

Darth Executor on October 16, 2007 at 9:22 PM

Fortunately, we don’t interpret “love thy neighbor” (which, incidentally, comes from our own, unperfected Leviticus) the same way. The Talmud says that if someone comes to kill you, you may kill him first. It has to do with someone breaking into your house, but same difference.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on October 16, 2007 at 9:24 PM

So after four years of education that American tax dollars pay for, which normally means 6 years of service minimum, he gets out after half of that because he developed an objection after he deployed? I’m a Christian and a soldier, and do not believe that they exist in contradiction to one another, and, personal opinion, something doesn’t add up.

Spc Steve on October 16, 2007 at 9:01 PM

Do you really want someone who will not fight to have your back?

Darth Executor on October 16, 2007 at 9:25 PM

Why do you disagree? Turn the other cheek = turn the other cheek, no?

No. In that context, “turn the other cheek” means accomodating beyond what is normally required, not “stand there and allow yourself to be pimp-slapped into oblivion”. Today’s equivalent idiom would be “going the extra mile”.

Kid from Brooklyn on October 16, 2007 at 9:25 PM

How ridiculous.

MB4 on October 16, 2007 at 9:15 PM

I can certainly relate to your experience more than his. Pick em up, put em down right after we got off the bus, then the fun really started. And many years later we got to train the new second looies to keep them from hurting themselves!

I think they should require him to reimburse the cost of the school as a minimum. Remember David Robinson? he was in the Naval Academy and they let him go to the pros because the PR for the navy was too tempting to pass up.

Bradky on October 16, 2007 at 9:25 PM

First – I’d be surprised if he didn’t owe the military either the equivalent cost of his education, or something else, in exchange for the discharge.

Second – Christianity does not require pacifism. Period. Anyone who says Christianity is a pacifist religion doesn’t understand it, or is deliberately misinterpreting it. Love your neighbor means PROTECT YOUR NEIGHBOR FROM NUTJOB MURDERERS, sometimes with lethal force. Nothing in Christianity prevents someone from being a police officer or soldier.

Sydney Carton on October 16, 2007 at 9:25 PM

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR = DON’T SHOOT THY NEIGHBOR.

Allahpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:47 PM

Terrorists aren’t his “neighbor”. Neighbor refers to people you personally deal with in an average day. Back then it was literally your neighbours since people didn’t really go somewhere else to work. I could go on an extensive lecture on all the ways this doesn’t apply to a soldier but I have a feeling it’d be wasted.

Darth Executor on October 16, 2007 at 9:27 PM

No. In that context, “turn the other cheek” means accomodating beyond what is normally required, not “stand there and allow yourself to be pimp-slapped into oblivion”. Today’s equivalent idiom would be “going the extra mile”.

Kid from Brooklyn on October 16, 2007 at 9:25 PM

Actually turning the other cheek was a way of humiliating your opponent who had to be so petty that he resorted to physical violence because he can’t beat you with words alone. As I said, this doesn’t apply to us at all since we’re not a honor/shame society.

Darth Executor on October 16, 2007 at 9:30 PM

Remember David Robinson? he was in the Naval Academy and they let him go to the pros because the PR for the navy was too tempting to pass up.
Bradky on October 16, 2007 at 9:25 PM

Yeah. That and the fact that he grew 7″ in college and was too tall to work in submarines anymore.

Wingo on October 16, 2007 at 9:37 PM

Christianity does not require pacifism. Period. Anyone who says Christianity is a pacifist religion doesn’t understand it, or is deliberately misinterpreting it.

Sydney Carton on October 16, 2007 at 9:25 PM

You have a very good authority on your side.

I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ’s heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it is meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.
- Pope Urban II

MB4 on October 16, 2007 at 9:37 PM

I’m basically a ‘live and let live’ kind of guy, as long as your living doesn’t take away from anyone else’s. But I can’t see how being a Christian would make me unable to defend myself against someone trying to kill me. If someone breaks into my home and threatens my family I’m going to respond with decisive and overwhelming violence, to the point that the intruder is unlikely to survive.

If the Captain’s own conscience wouldn’t let him do that then so be it. He should have to pay back some of the education he was given or branch transfer and become a Chaplain, but that’s it.

BadgerHawk on October 16, 2007 at 9:39 PM

Why do you disagree? Turn the other cheek = turn the other cheek, no?

Allahpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:49 PM

Absolutely not! For the orthodox Christian concepts about warfare, reference Augustine’s The City of God, and C.S. Lewis’s lecture entitled “Why I’m Not a Pacifist” and “Learning in War Time.” This is silly, by the way. The apparent conflict between Christ’s words and combat isn’t exactly a new issue, having never been thought through by Christians throughout history.

Weight of Glory on October 16, 2007 at 9:39 PM

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR = DON’T SHOOT THY NEIGHBOR.

Allahpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:47 PM

You know, you can find different christian sects that believe war and killing are never justified. Jehova’s Witnesses, and the Amish to name just a few. However, the bulk of the christian community has a different read on this issue.

The ten commandments don’t acually say, “Thou shalt not kill” The correct interpretation (if I remember my sunday school lessons right) is “Thou shalt not commit murder” The context meaning that some killing is justified in gods eyes. Also, while we all should aspire to live as Christ did, we are all mortal beings that have to deal with life and it’s realities. God understands this, and forgives. You will find AP, that most of our solders believe this way, and yes, they are good christians. The two can overlap.

So I give your feeble attempt to create friction in our weak little christian minds a D- at best.

You have to do better than that my athiest friend.

conservnut on October 16, 2007 at 9:40 PM

I think the Captain misunderstands his faith, but he is far from the first soldier in history who has had difficulty reconciling his faith with his military duties. As Zorro noted in a previous comment Sgt. York struggled with this as well.

Bob Owens on October 16, 2007 at 9:41 PM

Agape love means that ones motivation must be one that seeks the best for another.
Leaving a position of influence (as Captain Brown did) doesn’t seem to meet that definition.

least1 on October 16, 2007 at 9:43 PM

Although I’m a good Presbyterian (closet Episcopalian…shhh) my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters throughout history have written the best stuff on this subject. I seem to remember Thomas hitting on this in his Summa, but I’ll have to go upstairs and refresh my memory.

Weight of Glory on October 16, 2007 at 9:45 PM

Wingo on October 16, 2007 at 9:37 PM

LOL there was plenty of space on the carriers for him. Very intelligent guy but I think it was the right call.

Bradky on October 16, 2007 at 9:48 PM

Ah, more good trolling by AP. But if you take the Bible literally, then let’s take it literally. I once had a thing for a married woman. Then someone reminded me that “Thous shall not covet they neighbor’s wife” To which I reminded him, He’s not my neighbor. He’s a good 20 minutes away.

jihadwatcher on October 16, 2007 at 9:49 PM

You have a very good authority on your side.

Hey, it pays to be Catholic. :)

Sydney Carton on October 16, 2007 at 9:59 PM

Why do you disagree? Turn the other cheek = turn the other cheek, no?

Allahpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:49 PM

Provocateur obnoxious, you will not get 600 comments out of this; it’s a non-story. Peace be with the Captain.

And, taking one paragraph out of a book with 1400 pages is a little silly, don’t you think? If the Captain has placed that story in context with the ten commandments and other directives from Christ to his disciples and come away with the notion that he cannot return fire, then get that gun out of his hand and let him go cook or something.

Jaibones on October 16, 2007 at 10:00 PM

He’s a good 20 minutes away.

jihadwatcher on October 16, 2007 at 9:49 PM

That should be more than enough of a head start.

MB4 on October 16, 2007 at 10:12 PM

Aha! I have found it (exclaimed Achemedes). St. Thomas’ Summa, Second Part of Part II, Qu. 40: “Is Warfare Always Sinful?”

A. Three conditions for a just war. First the ruler under whom the war is to be fought must have the authority to do so…Secondly, a just cause is required – so that those against whom the war is waged deserve such a response of some offense on their part. Augustine says, “Just wars are usually defined as those that avenge injuries, when a nation or a city should be punished for failing to right a wrong done by its citizens…The third condition that is required on the part of those making the war is a right intention, to achieve some good or to avoid some evil. St. Augustine says in his book, On THe Words of the Lord, “For the true followers of God even wars are peaceful if they are waged not out of greed or cruelty but for the sake of peace, to restrain the evildoers and assist the good.”

So there you have it. The most formative Catholic theologian, in the 13th century, quoting one of the greatest theologians (and Bishops)of the 4th century, in dealing with the issue of Christians and warfare. All we need to do is read a little more.

Weight of Glory on October 16, 2007 at 10:23 PM

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR = DON’T SHOOT THY NEIGHBOR.

Allahpundit on October 16, 2007 at 8:47 PM

In the case of terrorists, think of it this way, you’re shooting the bastard so he doesn’t commit any more sins, you’re actually helping him by blasting the dirtbag before he gets into deeper trouble with the deity…you’re actually doing him a favor! You just have to know how to frame it!

Bad Candy on October 16, 2007 at 10:35 PM

“For the true followers of God even wars are peaceful if they are waged not out of greed or cruelty but for the sake of peace, to restrain the evildoers and assist the good.”

Wow, that kinda fits this senario huh?

conservnut on October 16, 2007 at 10:37 PM

Bad Candy on October 16, 2007 at 10:35 PM

Kinda like Mel Gibson in We Were Solders.

“Oh, yes and Lord, about our enemies, ignore their heathen prayers and help us blow those little bastards straight to hell”

One of the best movie lines ever.

conservnut on October 16, 2007 at 10:40 PM

Wow, that kinda fits this senario huh?

conservnut on October 16, 2007 at 10:37 PM

Yeah. The problem is, however, the difficulty in determining what is evil. Some, unfortunately, confuse difficulty with impossibility and simply say that no one can say someone else is evil. Others on the Left view the U.S. as the evil one, which in turn allows people like Cindy Sheehan to warm up to some of the most horrible slugs on the planet. That is why it is always crucial in times of war to communicate the rationale behind it. And let’s just say that communication isn’t Bush’s strong suit.

Weight of Glory on October 16, 2007 at 10:46 PM

They have similar issues with very religious Jews in israel, more times then not they serve as first responders medically.

This is not exactly accurate. Those religious Jews who do not serve in the IDF are not conscientious objectors who don’t believe in war or killing people. While a majority of the most religious men do not serve, there are indeed “chareidi” Jews in the IDF, in fact there is a complete unit of religious Jews called Nahal Chareidi. Those who don’t serve are getting a seminary deferment, just like American seminarians when we had a military draft. While some object to serving in the army on religious grounds (and aren’t comfortable with the secular nature of the Jewish state), those grounds are related to objections to the secular nature of army life and possible “immoral” conduct, i.e. contact with women and other sexual behavior, not an objection to killing in times of war. Observant Jews have served in armies around the world.

The Torah is pretty clear that killing during a legitimate war is not murder and in some cases is a mitzvah.

rokemronnie on October 16, 2007 at 10:48 PM

As a conservative Christian who is serving in the Army, I want to weigh in here.

One, there is a long history of pacifism in Christianity, extending back as far as the Apostles themselves. We may interpret the Scripture differently on this point, but this is an area where I believe two Christians can honestly disagree and both have valid points.
Secondly, it mentions that he is studying for seminary. Any mention of him possibly returning to serve in uniform as a Chaplain? They are officers and they do not carry weapons, even in combat. And don’t ever think they are cowards or “blue falcons.” Many are former combat soldiers. Can you imagine the Malkins it takes to be in a war zone in uniform unarmed?

Lancer on October 16, 2007 at 10:56 PM

Can you imagine the Malkins it takes to be in a war zone in uniform unarmed?

Lancer on October 16, 2007 at 10:56 PM

excellent point!

Weight of Glory on October 16, 2007 at 11:09 PM

One, there is a long history of pacifism in Christianity, extending back as far as the Apostles themselves.

Of course there is. But imposing it on others, and of your nation, on the pain of spiritual sanction, isn’t found in Christianity.

Sydney Carton on October 16, 2007 at 11:15 PM

Arma Virumque
Ambrose Bierce

“Ours is a Christian army”; so he said
A regiment of bangomen who led.
“And ours a Christian navy,” added he
Who sailed a thunder-junk upon the sea.
Better they know than men unwarlike do
What is an army, and a navy too.
Pray God there may be sent them by-and-by
The knowledge what a Christian is, and why.
For somewhat lamely the conception runs
Of a brass-buttoned Jesus firing guns.

Nonfactor on October 16, 2007 at 11:28 PM

I don’t see where he is imposing it on others, only on himself.

Lancer on October 16, 2007 at 11:30 PM

I don’t have a problem with legitimate conscientious objectors, but I don’t think it’s right just to let him out of his contract rather than switch him to a chaplain or other noncombatant role. Or, as many others have suggested, make him reimburse the Army for his education. He may have had a change of heart since he joined up–it happens–but that’s hardly the Army’s fault. The Army held up its end of the bargain, and there’s no reason to let him walk away scot free. There are only so many slots open at West Point every year, so him getting to go kept somebody else from going. Besides, I’m pretty sure that paying your debts is part of being a Christian.

ReubenJCogburn on October 16, 2007 at 11:44 PM

Speaking of Army captains:

The Real Iraq We Knew, by 12 former Army captains

MB4 on October 16, 2007 at 11:50 PM

ReubenJCogburn on October 16, 2007 at 11:44 PM

A very good point, and I agree. I don’t begrudge this guy having an honest change of heart about things. It is a shame that we wasted a slot at West Point on him. And he should pay it back prorated against the time spent in the service.

conservnut on October 16, 2007 at 11:52 PM

Speaking of Army captains:

The Real Iraq We Knew, by 12 former Army captains

MB4 on October 16, 2007 at 11:50 PM

Looks like a well coordinated attack by the left. Let’s see where this roller coaster lets off.

conservnut on October 16, 2007 at 11:57 PM

Bradky on October 16, 2007 at 9:48 PM

Agreed. But he entered intending to work in subs.

Wingo on October 17, 2007 at 12:00 AM

I do agree also. He should refund the Army pro-rated, unless maybe he returns as a Chaplain to serve out the time.

Lancer on October 17, 2007 at 12:01 AM

Looks like a well coordinated attack by the left. Let’s see where this roller coaster lets off.

conservnut on October 16, 2007 at 11:57 PM

I do not know the politics of the 12 former Army Captains, but I doubt that many if any, are leftists.

MB4 on October 17, 2007 at 12:12 AM

Pay back the money to thy neighbors whom thou hath swindled.

profitsbeard on October 17, 2007 at 12:13 AM

One should remember that the Army does not hand out CO status lightly, particularly these days.

NPP on October 17, 2007 at 12:16 AM

When the Roman soldiers asked John the Baptist for guidance, he didn’t tell them to quit the military!
If your wife is being assaulted, will you just stand there & pray for the assailant?
Where’s Sgt. York when we need him?

jgapinoy on October 17, 2007 at 12:24 AM

I do not know the politics of the 12 former Army Captains, but I doubt that many if any, are leftists.

MB4 on October 17, 2007 at 12:12 AM

I might have agreed with you except for this last paragraph.

There is one way we might be able to succeed in Iraq. To continue an operation of this intensity and duration, we

would have to abandon our volunteer military for compulsory service. Short of that, our best option is to leave Iraq immediately. A scaled withdrawal will not prevent a civil war, and it will spend more blood and treasure on a losing proposition.

America, it has been five years. It’s time to make a choice.

That, my friend is right out of the Move on handbook. Unless you think that Soros and Cindy S. have been right all along. huh?

conservnut on October 17, 2007 at 12:24 AM

For those who point out that Sgt. Alvin York was a conscientious objector during WWI, though he servied because while he believed God & the Bible told him war was wrong, he was raised to believe in his country, so he signed up anyway. While serving as an objector, his squad came under fire, killing all but him and seven others, and he so violently and aggressively counter assaulted the enemy position that his action moved nearly a full battalion of Germans to surrender.

I say that to say I’d rather have serve next to a man who swears up and down he hates war but serves in a war just the same than a man who says that now that he’s seen war, he refuses to have any part of it.

Spc Steve on October 17, 2007 at 12:34 AM

My pastor is also my Karate instructor and he does a devotional with each class. One that was a twist in thinking to me was from one of the books Paul wrote and he wrote something like “When possible live at peace with all people.” The pastor/karate teacher said “If some one comes at me with bad intentions for me or my family then I can’t live at peace with him and that is when it’s OK to use what ever force is needed to stop him.” So there’s one way to say that the Bible says it’s ok to fight back.

jdog on October 17, 2007 at 12:56 AM

That, my friend is right out of the Move on handbook. Unless you think that Soros and Cindy S. have been right all along. huh?

conservnut on October 17, 2007 at 12:24 AM

I do not read the “Move on handbook” and I guess that you must have missed by Cindy S. ditty.

MB4 on October 17, 2007 at 12:57 AM

This guy needs to serve out his six in a rear area or stateside, pushing paper. There are plenty of admin jobs he can do and he MUST be required to pay for his education.

That is the bargain he struck. He must be compelled to honor it.

dogsoldier on October 17, 2007 at 6:48 AM

What if an insane distant neighbor is trying to kill everyone in your neighborhood?

Hening on October 17, 2007 at 7:45 AM

Didn’t Jesus tell his disciples to “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”? Yes, he did. That’s a Red Letter instruction from Jesus. It seems to me that CPT Brown is defaulting on his CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION to his government by not rendering his service, which makes him a fraud and a cheat. Nice Christian testimony.

Redhead Infidel on October 17, 2007 at 8:34 AM

Jesus was a coward? Who knew?
HerrMorgenholz on October 16, 2007 at 9:15 PM

That’s news to me too. I sure as heck don’t remember the part of the story where Jesus “redeployed” to a safe area…

Here’s an idea: if you claim that you want to be like Jesus, then BE LIKE JESUS. Walk into the terrorists’ stronghold and convert them.

If one of these conscientious appeasers is willing to do that, he will have my both my respect and my sympathy. Otherwise, they can take their so-called “faith” and shove it up their asses.

logis on October 17, 2007 at 8:45 AM

C.S. Lewis’s lecture entitled “Why I’m Not a Pacifist”
Weight of Glory on October 16, 2007 at 9:39 PM

I wondered if that’s where you got your nic. :-) That article isn’t online anywhere I can find, but here’s the money quote for those who are interested –

“The doctrine that war is always a greater evil seems to imply a materialist ethic, a belief that death and pain are the greatest evils. But I do not think they are. I think the suppression of a higher religion by a lower, or even a higher secular culture by a lower, a much greater evil. Nor am I greatly moved by the fact that many of the individuals we strike down in war are innocent. […] The question is whether war is the greatest evil in the world, so that any state of affairs which might result from submission is certainly preferable. And I do not see any really cogent arguments for that view.”

Laura on October 17, 2007 at 9:02 AM

I’m a retired Army Lieutenant Colonel. I spent some of my 25 years of active duty in college-level ROTC, which is the way the Army gets the majority of its officers. I’ve seen buyer’s remorse and I’ve seen identity confusion, but this reeks. Four years at USMA leaves no doubt in your military mind what the business of the combat arms is. If you can’t take that, pay back the money (pro-rated) or request a transfer to another branch, like Finance or Adjutant General. The only reason the Army let him off is to avoid publicity. As I said, this reeks!

Longhorn Six on October 17, 2007 at 9:42 AM

Laura on October 17, 2007 at 9:02 AM

BINGO!

Weight of Glory on October 17, 2007 at 9:45 AM

I do not read the “Move on handbook” and I guess that you must have missed by Cindy S. ditty.

MB4 on October 17, 2007 at 12:57 AM

Could have fooled me, by the nature of your comments here.

conservnut on October 17, 2007 at 10:12 AM

Issues like this are IMHO born out of a simple misunderstanding of words at best (as with the Biblical meaning of the word “shalom”) and total “lunch counter Christianity” at worst.

What this guy is doing is taking one part of Scripture and using it to say something running totally counter to the rest of Scripture. As a Methodist I have a serious problem with that. In both the Old and New Testaments there are many examples of where God not only condones but commands war.

Ryan Gandy on October 17, 2007 at 10:47 AM

Romans 13:4 For he [the government] is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

1. Multiple examples of Jews and Christians serving in government capacity.

2. Part of the government’s job is to weild the sword (in justice and defense).

3. One must ignore the main body of Scriptural teaching in order to come to a pacifist position.

jdpaz on October 17, 2007 at 10:56 AM

KILL THEM ALL = LET GOD SORT THEM OUT

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

Our strategy is to destroy the enemy from within, to conquer him through himself.
- Adolf Hitler

Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death.

Mazztek on October 17, 2007 at 10:57 AM

Remember David Robinson? he was in the Naval Academy and they let him go to the pros because the PR for the navy was too tempting to pass up.

Bradky on October 16, 2007 at 9:25 PM

David Robinson had a contract with the Navy to be a pilot. When Robinson was a freshman he was at maximum pilot height. During his four years at the USNA, he grew seven more inches (he’s over seven feet tall)–too tall to fit in a cockpit. So the Navy voided his contract.

Contrast this situation with that of Napoleon McCallum, a football player who also graduated from the USNA. He wanted out of his six year commitment also, but the Navy said “no way,” PR considerations notwithstanding.

baldilocks on October 17, 2007 at 11:07 AM

EVEN THOUGH THY NEIGHBOR IS INCLINED TO CHOP OFF THY HEAD.

RedWinged Blackbird on October 16, 2007 at 8:59 PM

You’re 100% correct.

“But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person.” Mat 5:39, words of Christ

Christians are wise to be disobedient to their god in this instance. A pure follower of Christ would let evil men have their way.

Loundry on October 17, 2007 at 11:21 AM

Could have fooled me, by the nature of your comments here.

conservnut on October 17, 2007 at 10:12 AM

You must fool easily then and the nature of your comments forces me to conclude that you have an exceedingly binary view of things.

MB4 on October 17, 2007 at 12:54 PM

“In following Jesus’ example, I could not have fired my weapon at another human being, even if he were shooting at me,” said Brown, who plans to continue seminary classes he began by correspondence while in Iraq…

Uhh, Jesus was talking about personal insults, not serving in the military. Cornelius (first gentile convert) was a soldier, the centurian was not turned away by Jesus when he asked that his servant be healed, John the Baptist did not tell the soldiers that came to him for advise on living righteously to quit being soldiers; he told them to treat noncombatants humanely, apply laws equally to everyone and to be satisfied in their wages (ie take no bribes or extortion). And do I even have to mention that great Christian soldier Alvin York who struggled with the issue himself and ended up winning the CMH.

Had this guy said it was a matter of his own conscience or Spiritual leading I wouldn’t question his motives. But don’t blame Jesus because you don’t want to be a soldier anymore. Jesus also warned not to go back on your word which is what this guy is doing by not fulfilling the one to three years left on his contract.

srhoades on October 17, 2007 at 1:37 PM

Uhh, Jesus was talking about personal insults, not serving in the military.
srhoades on October 17, 2007 at 1:37 PM

Jesus suffered a lot worse than personal insults. But he took it all upon himself. Jesus didn’t desert his post and run back home to mommy; He HIMSELF went into the lair of his enemies.

When liberals say “turn the other cheek,” they are always referring to someone else’s cheek. And that’s what Peter – “I’m more like Jesus than you are” – Brown believes in.

If Mr. Brown really wanted to follow the example of the guy whose robes he’s hiding behind, he wouldn’t go to preach in Iowa; he’d go and proselytize the terrorists.

Jesus was the bravest man who ever lived. Mr. Brown is the exact opposite; he is a coward, a liar and a thief – and there is absolutely nothing Christian about any of that.

logis on October 17, 2007 at 2:23 PM

baldilocks on October 17, 2007 at 11:07 AM

Nobody at any of the Service Academies gets a contract to go to a particular branch when they are Fourthclassmen. Attrition makes it impossible to chart out who will go where until shortly before graduation.

The MOS/AFSC selection is done as Firstclassmen, as an event at USMA/USNA, through an application process at USAFA with the results released through squadron mail distribution…the equivalent ‘event’ for USAFA is choosing pilot training bases and start dates for those who are going.

Robinson’s growth would’ve been noted at his pre-graduation physical, and his choices limited to those careers he was qualified for. Although it’s not unheard of for physical restrictions to be waived for Academy sports stars.

James on October 17, 2007 at 3:56 PM

“An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.”

When in a crowd being chased by a lion, one doesn’t have to be the FASTEST runner, just not the slowest!

georgej on October 17, 2007 at 4:32 PM

Robinson’s growth would’ve been noted at his pre-graduation physical, and his choices limited to those careers he was qualified for. Although it’s not unheard of for physical restrictions to be waived for Academy sports stars.

James on October 17, 2007 at 3:56 PM

I stand corrected, but according to a bit of Googling, his growth spurt disqualified him for almost all deployment roles in the Navy. Physical restrictions may be waived but reality can’t be. The guy became to big for darn near everything moving in the Navy.

baldilocks on October 17, 2007 at 8:13 PM

The guy became to big for darn near everything moving in the Navy.

My husband had to sign a waiver before they’d let him on the Eisenhower. (And was he ever sorry he signed it – Ikeatraz, as he calls it, was in the Indian Ocean for about 9 months and only had two brief shore leaves.) And he’s “only” 6′2″.

Laura on October 17, 2007 at 10:43 PM

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