“a race that consisted of offspring of human women and “sons of God” (proposed to be giants or proto humans), who appear significantly in Genesis 6 and are mentioned also in other biblical texts and in some non-canonical Jewish writings. Others consider the Nephilim, in contrast, to be the offspring of human men descended from Seth and human women descended from Cain.[1] Both interpretations say that the lustful breeding of the Nephilim was one of the provocations for Flood, which is also referred to as the Deluge.”

Thanks Wikipedia!

Thank you, Robert Spencer, for all your time and effort. It’s greatly appreciated.

The more I read of the Qu’ran, the more I am convinced that Islam is nothing more than a hodge-podge of Judaism and Christianity mixed together by an illiterate bastard.

mram on October 14, 2007 at 12:18 PM

You put that very nicely. I was just going to call it plagerism.

As for western converts, I wouldn’t be surprised if many are attracted to it because they don’t have to think for themselves within the belief system (as I see it). About three years ago, I had coffee with a young man who had converted to islam and he truly believed in the jinn, satan, etc. and could quote the book like there was no tomorrow. He wasn’t coerced to convert but he was crazy (for real, red flags were popping up all over). This doesn’t mean all converts are crazy but they are definitely looking to fill an emptiness inside and somehow islam does it for them. This guy was definitely running on empty and holding onto his new religion as tight as possible.

This young man also tried to convert me relentlessly in those bizarre few hours and he was incredibly convincing and charming, except for the creepiness of his persona. For lack of a better way to say it, a weaker willed person would have fallen for his BS. I would hope that he’s an exception but I don’t plan on trying to find out ever again.

I don’t know who in their right mind would convert to Islam.

mram on October 14, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Hmmm… I think that about says it all right there.

And I wonder, with their throwing around the idea of a “shaitan” (Satan), whether they are not actually listenting to the one they fear. Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees said:

You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
(John 8:44, ESV)

Mohammed gave his source name as “Gabriel”, didn’t he? In the Scriptures, Gabriel is (if I remember correctly), the messenger associated with the coming of Jesus. I wonder if Satan wasn’t playing the part of Gabriel for old Mohammed, if Mohammed wasn’t making it all up anyway.

Thank you again, Mr. Spencer.

The Sources of the Qur’an by W. St. Clair Tisdall.

Robert Spencer on October 14, 2007 at 3:07 PM

From your link:

(Surah Ixxxv. 21).[1] Thus God alone is held to be the “Source” of Islam; and if so, then all effort to find a human origin for any part of it must be in vain. Now, if we can trace the teaching of any part of it, to an earthly Source, or to human systems existing previous to the Prophet’s age, then Islam at once falls to the ground.

Christianity has been scrutinized mercilessly. Time for Islam to undergo the same.

Without the tonic.

Indeed – GodAllah knows what kind of menace those frogs can be!

RD on October 14, 2007 at 6:11 PM

EWWWWWWW Yuk! Must take shower now!

Next week: “So We sent plagues on them: wholesale death, locusts, lice, frogs, and blood…”

Who is “We” I wonder? Allah and Mohammed? A form of the trinity?

I will tune back in next week, same bat time, same bat channel.

Next week: “So We sent plagues on them: wholesale death, locusts, lice, frogs, and blood…”

Indeed – GodAllah knows what kind of menace those frogs can be!

And that’s why I’m baffled as to why some people convert.

Like who? Blacks in prison?
Skinny scared white kids in England?
People in countries where Christianity is asleep or dead?

It involved some form of intimidation.

The Sources of the Qur’an by W. St. Clair Tisdall.

Robert Spencer on October 14, 2007 at 3:07 PM

Thank you.

I admire your patience and wish I could be more like you that way. I truly do, and I am sure my family would agree that more patience on my part would be a true virtue.

1)I might be mistaken, but in an earlier lesson you pointed out that the muslims deny original sin and A & E’s fall from grace and expulsion from the garden, but Verses 19-25 recount the temptation of Adam and Eve, their sin, and their banishment from the garden. Can you clarify, please?

No, no, quite obviously they don’t deny Adam and Eve’s temptation and sin and banishment. They just deny that their sin has anything to do with anyone else — i.e., they deny original sin, the idea that the decision of our first parents has placed the world in a condition of separation from God from which all suffer.

Is the height of Adam and the early man meant to be actual, or is it similar to the Bilbe stating, for example, Noah being what, over 500 years old? I always understood the extremely high age of Old Testament figures was simply meant to enhance the honor of a person….and just wondering if the enhanced tallness was used similarly…to enhance a percieved honor and respect…

JetBoy on October 14, 2007 at 2:29 PM

Actually JetBoy, the ages of people in the old testament is supposed to be based on their ACTUAL age. Not just an honor scheme. As in, Adam died when he was over 960 years old, or after the earth had gone around the sun 960 times. They’re based on true age.

Two things, Robert Spencer. Maybe three.

1)I might be mistaken, but in an earlier lesson you pointed out that the muslims deny original sin and A & E’s fall from grace and expulsion from the garden, but Verses 19-25 recount the temptation of Adam and Eve, their sin, and their banishment from the garden. Can you clarify, please?
2)This business of a 90 ft. tall Adam and his shrunken human descendants reads like a convoluted misinterpretation of long lived pre-flood people & a decreasing post-flood life expectancy. In that same vein, mohammed’s perversion of the trinity which mistakenly includes worship of the virgin mary strikes me as a convoluted misinterpretation.

Dr. Robert Reymond attributes these types of errors to ancient jehovah’s witnesses – debunked heretical ‘arian’ Christian philosophers which set up shop in the mid east around 250-300 A.D. Could this debunked, heretical arian philosophy have influenced mohammed’s knowledge of triune Christian doctrine?

3)Thanks for all your hard work on this study. It is greatly appreciated.

What I want is a resource that shows the linkage from where Mo stole stuff and brought it into this idiot book. Some I can see for myself, but others not.

I don’t endorse your language, but in any case you may find this interesting:

The Sources of the Qur’an by W. St. Clair Tisdall.

The more I read of the Qu’ran, the more I am convinced that Islam is nothing more than a hodge-podge of Judaism and Christianity mixed together by an illiterate bastard. mram on October 14, 2007 at 12:18 PM

With some Arabic paganism thrown in, just for good measure, and I think some Greek tales as well.

What I want is a resource that shows the linkage from where Mo stole stuff and brought it into this idiot book. Some I can see for myself, but others not.

I’m always struck by how convoluted Mohammad’s understanding of the Bible is. The way he twists some biblical events and characters into unrecognizable tales would be comical if the end result, the Koran, weren’t so tragic. It’s like were getting a Sunday school lesson from Archie Bunker or the pathelogical liar from SNL.