Crisis averted: “God” now mentionable on Capitol flag certificates; Update: Video added
posted at 6:15 pm on October 11, 2007 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
We haven’t posted about this but it’s been on Fox News and numerous righty blogs so I’ll just assume you know what I’m talking about. Anyway, the faithful have won. This time.
But we’ll be back. Some Newdow-ish idiot will have the ACLU file suit to have God stricken from the certificates as a violation of the Establishment Clause, and he’ll win. The glorious vindication of civil liberties will be heralded from the mountaintop, whereupon atheists’ favorable ratings will drop from Bush levels to Congressional levels, thereby ensuring that we can’t get elected dogcatcher, let alone president.
And thus will our final victory be secure. Take that, Christians!
Update: Here’s a stellar little report on the controversy by Major Garrett from tonight’s Special Report with Brit Hume. If you’re not caught up on the certificate controversy, this will catch you up in three minutes.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages:
The Almighty Monetary Denomination is the Face of GOD
Kini on October 11, 2007 at 6:23 PM
Jens on October 11, 2007 at 6:24 PM
Establishing the theocracy checklist:
…
5. Re-elect GWB check!
6. Get the flag guy to put “God” on the certificates check!
7. We’re there!!!eleventy-one
jdpaz on October 11, 2007 at 6:27 PM
Wonder if Nancy prayed about this issue too.
katieanne on October 11, 2007 at 6:28 PM
Allahpundit Hmmm, sound kind of like a Pyhrric victory to me…Sure you want to go down in flames?
doriangrey on October 11, 2007 at 6:28 PM
What’s interesting to me is how Atheism has attained a group identity, in a way I don’t remember it having in past times.
I think I was pretty much an atheist for a good portion of my adult life but it was never much of a big deal to me what other people thought or believed about the existence of a God.
Nyog_of_the_Bog on October 11, 2007 at 6:29 PM
i’m sort of in the mood to say really mean things to christians just to cheese them off, so i’m going to leave it alone.
jummy on October 11, 2007 at 6:32 PM
Nyog, its the intarwebs, which lets people communicate where they were isolated before, and the rise of the evangelical atheists like Dawkins, Harris and Hitch.
Bad Candy on October 11, 2007 at 6:33 PM
Would anyone notice? I mean seriously jummy, you always say really mean things to cheese off, well pretty much everybody. I mean how would anyone notice you were picking on Christians?
doriangrey on October 11, 2007 at 6:35 PM
yeah, those “organized” atheists are weird.
Anyway, a question for you. When you were an atheist, did people want to know what religion you were before? I ask because I think it would be much easier in America to be a formerly Christian atheist. Then you’re like the teen who turns vegan overnight, or becomes a Buddhist, to the chagrin of his annoyed but ultimately indulgent parents, who wait until he grows out of it.
Would it matter to people here if AP for ex. was a formerly Jewish atheist? Would it matter if you were moving to small town America? I think being an atheist is way easier for some people than for others.
JiangxiDad on October 11, 2007 at 6:35 PM
I knew you were behind it. :-)
Maxx on October 11, 2007 at 6:36 PM
Oh and I justed wanted to add….I like
turtlesbeer…doriangrey on October 11, 2007 at 6:37 PM
Yeah… well we’re not cheesed off so easily there bud ! :-)
You must be thinking of the Islamics.
Maxx on October 11, 2007 at 6:39 PM
If an individual freely requests an inscription with religious words in it, that is their right, and gubmint should not dare to censor that…but I would agree that gubmint should not _initiate_ such wording.
Or whatever…I really don’t give a flying fark about any of this squabbling
Ochlan on October 11, 2007 at 6:41 PM
You just reminded me of a song my brother wrote. It’s called “I stay away” a couple of the line go like this.
I stay away
from airplanes…
Because nothing..nothing
is holding them up.
I stay away
from police
Because they always..always
want to take me away.
I stay away
from my old lady
because she’s always..always
trying to track me down
I stay away
From GOD..
Because I think..I think
He’s behind it all…
doriangrey on October 11, 2007 at 6:43 PM
AP, you seem negative about atheism popular chances. I disagree completely. They’re have been five best-selling atheist books recently. This never would have happened in the past. I think evangelical atheism can win the battle of ideas.
I will admit that atheism does have its bad side. Many atheist just don’t get religion. While this is blatantly unfortunate given the Islamic threat, it also has some subtle sadness to it. We fail to understand our Western culture when we fail to comprehend Christianity. Of course, liberal Christianity is perhaps worse than atheism in its failure to understand Christianity. I’m always urging atheists and liberal Christians to read the Bible, but I suspect I’m wasting my breath.
thuja on October 11, 2007 at 6:43 PM
I once witnessed a reckless auto accident where a car ran off the road.
I went to the car and asked the driver if he was OK.
He said he was and was traveling with God.
I said, Buddy you’d better let him drive cause you’re dangerous.
Kini on October 11, 2007 at 6:44 PM
When Athiests Attack!!…………
Pelosi wanted to put “under me” on the certificates
Janos Hunyadi on October 11, 2007 at 6:44 PM
It was a dry run by the democrats for when Giulliani, their well-positioned plant, wins and turns out to be a Communist atheist…
/conspiracy theory
SouthernGent on October 11, 2007 at 6:44 PM
Seven! I counted seven layers of sarcasm in this post, AP. That has got to be a new record.
Weight of Glory on October 11, 2007 at 6:44 PM
Yes, that’s exactly what Allah is saying :P He’s talking about how if athiests were so damn militant about trying to eliminate Christianity wherever they can see it, people wouldn’t dislike them so intensely. And maybe if athiests eased up off the intensity, people would trust them with power. As it is, most people probably assume that if they elect an athiest, their first item on their agenda will be the utter destruction of Christianity. (I mean, they’re already risking that with Democrats. With a confirmed athiest, it’d be all but guaranteed.)
So, this should help … confirm the average Christian’s worst fears :P
apollyonbob on October 11, 2007 at 6:46 PM
Wow stupid of me. “If athiests WEREN’T so militant…” That’s an important word to screw up.
apollyonbob on October 11, 2007 at 6:47 PM
Repeat after me, “Ayaan Hirsi Ali”
Mcguyver on October 11, 2007 at 6:48 PM
Would that include my response to this
With the oh so obvious this???
Oh and I justed wanted to add….I like turtles beer…
doriangrey on October 11, 2007 at 6:37 PM
doriangrey on October 11, 2007 at 6:48 PM
Would that include my response to this
With the oh so obvious this???
Dang it I ought to use the preview button once in a while…
doriangrey on October 11, 2007 at 6:49 PM
I just like those studies that say people of faith are happier than secularists. That’s why I rarely find myself needing Valu-Rite Vodka. But I digress…
Sultry Beauty on October 11, 2007 at 6:49 PM
How much overlap on the people buying them? I’ll bet people buy books like Unhinged and other assorted books about crazy lefties, too.
As for the other half, I doubt it, honestly, most evangelical atheists are bastards of the highest order, being likable eventually becomes part of successful movement…
Here’s why. You might do well with antisocial pricks online, but eventually that pool dries up, atheism might rise, but at some point decent atheists and religious are gonna get damn sick of the evangelical godless.
Bad Candy on October 11, 2007 at 6:52 PM
Being an atheist means never having to say your sorry ?
William Amos on October 11, 2007 at 6:59 PM
Is atheism a belief?
Kini on October 11, 2007 at 7:00 PM
Allahpundit
Think about how torqued-off you’d be if they refused to mention iphones on flag certificates.
Maxx on October 11, 2007 at 7:00 PM
No atheist means never having to say..I was wrong…now I’m sorry.
doriangrey on October 11, 2007 at 7:02 PM
Yeah, I also always forget to use it.
I think the capitulation has something to do with Yousef converting to Christianity.
Weight of Glory on October 11, 2007 at 7:03 PM
…or an absence of one?
Ochlan on October 11, 2007 at 7:10 PM
I’d argue its a counter belief.
William Amos on October 11, 2007 at 7:12 PM
The power of saying, “Ayaan Hirsi Ali” for three minutes!
Mcguyver on October 11, 2007 at 7:13 PM
Heh! Shaken not stirred of course
Kini on October 11, 2007 at 7:22 PM
Lemme see if I got this timeline correct:
1) A shadowy figure known as “The Architect” censors the word “God” on a teenage Eagle Scout’s Congressional certificate meant to honor his grandfather, a member of the Greatest Generation
2) The Democrat House Speaker agrees with The Architect’s censorship citing separation of church and state
3) Republican and Christians are energized enough to logically defend the teenage Eagle Scout’s rights of expression and religious freedom
4) The unseen “Architect” sends out a press release reversing his censorship; Democrat House Speaker must publicly backtrack
Wait, this is all because of “The Architect?” The Effin’ Architect?!
Karl Rove, you magnificent bastard!
ScottMcC on October 11, 2007 at 7:28 PM
I think the argument was that the architect didnt have the right to edit any member of congress’ personal messages.
Imagine the uproar if Ellison sent out Korans and the architech had wanted to edit the word “sharia” from any reference
William Amos on October 11, 2007 at 7:33 PM
How is “God” not appearing on this certificate hindering this kid’s freedom of speech?
Constant Parrhesia on October 11, 2007 at 7:34 PM
It’s what he requested be on the certificate. The “Architect” not putting it there hinders the kid’s freedom of speech. There was absolutely no reason not to put “God” on a privately requested document.
Kowboy on October 11, 2007 at 7:45 PM
Religion = Mans idea on how to Worship God. Why don’t we just look and see how God says to do Worship.
mjkazee on October 11, 2007 at 7:46 PM
it is inappropriate and beyond the scope of this Agency’s responsibilities to censor messages from Members … any messages on flag certificates are personal between and are between a Member of Congress and his or hers constituents.
Now you, I, and even Allah can get one with/without god mentioned and free speech reaches divine balance for all the universe to receive.
Kini on October 11, 2007 at 7:46 PM
Oops!
Kini on October 11, 2007 at 7:48 PM
Lol. Our backs are against the wall!
RightWinged on October 11, 2007 at 7:49 PM
Good for Eagle Scout Andrew. He acted as a good citizen and got things done within the system. cool!
bnelson44 on October 11, 2007 at 7:56 PM
Only coz of the ghey agenda ;-)
Ochlan on October 11, 2007 at 7:58 PM
Ya know AP, I have nothing but respect for you. And I say that as a God-fearing(!) Christian. That having been said, did I hear you just allude to Newdow as an “idiot?”
I honestly and seriously did not realize that atheists were such a fractious group.
gryphon202 on October 11, 2007 at 8:04 PM
Bad Candy, I get what you are saying, but let’s look at the other side. The people who start movements are often stubborn people–perhaps it is fair to say they are pricks. When I think of how stubborn one must have been to be an early gay rights activists, I’m amazed anyone would have such nerve, such Malkins. Now the mainstream gay activist is cuddly and cute and perhaps a little too vapid. I suspect that the same could be true for atheism.
Yes, it’s always a bit harsh to tell people that beliefs are silly. Am I a harsh person when I mock astrology to my astrological friends? Probably so, but you know there is much societaly support for my position. People can even think my mocking of astrology is ok. Perhaps, someday I’ll be a cuddly and cute and perhaps a little vapid atheist.
thuja on October 11, 2007 at 8:34 PM
No, it’s just because Larry Craig is in the next stall… And as we know he “isn’t gay. never has been gay.”
RightWinged on October 11, 2007 at 8:36 PM
I doubt it, so much of the Evangelical Atheism movement is built on not mere disagreement with religious, but outright hatred of religion, as far as I can tell.
Besides that, I don’t think the gay rights movement and Evangelical Atheism are analogous. The gay movement has always been about acceptance as far as I can tell, whereas Evangelical Atheism as far as I can tell is not about acceptance at all, but the cruelest of mockery, hatred and rejection of religion, even the most benign practitioners of religious faith.
Bad Candy on October 11, 2007 at 10:20 PM
I agree with you about the limits of the analogy of the gay rights movement and atheism.
On the other hand, you appear to exaggerate the harshness of atheist versus Christian criticism. You should glance at Jonathon Edward’s sermons to remind yourself of how harsh Christians can get. I also remember Christians saying extremely harsh and hateful things about my sexual orientation when I was an undergrad. I doubt atheist say anything comparably vile.
But let me get to the reason I felt compelled to reply to you. It’s your expression “the most benign practitioners of religious faith.” I’m extremely skeptical about what gets construed as most benign. Usually, I see liberal Christianity, Unitarianism, reform Judaism and the ever elusive and probably mythological non-political, non-Jihadist Islam as examples of the benign. In this alleged den of benignity, I see socialism and habitual appeasement of evil. To be extremely clear, I think that Unitarianism is unambiguously evil–a hotbed of traitors who spit on our flag. I have other strong reservations about liberal religion of the type we atheists are supposed to find ok, but I don’t wish to be responsible for Hotair’s longest post ever. I hope at least the thrust of my arugment is clear. There is no particular reason for an atheist to prefer a religionists who pretends to be benign over the more sinewy statement of religious belief. In fact, I prefer a thousand times over Ann Coulter to the Archbishop of Canterbury.
thuja on October 11, 2007 at 11:04 PM
I’ve seen atheists calling for outright persecution and even extermination of religious people more than once, not here at HA, but it can be found. I absolutely believe that a lot evangelical atheism is largely driven by raw hatred of the same breed as BDS, often with overlap.
It might just be impotent tools lashing out where they feel they can do so without retribution online, but I wonder about it, when a movement seems to be built on that level of hatred, I have to believe it’ll fizzle in the US. I hope it will, being atheist is one thing, but you don’t create that large a reservoir of hatred and not have the dam burst.
And yeah, I’ve seen religious do the same to gays and atheists, but I don’t roll with them and condemn them immediately, as do most religious, more than anything, I just hate pricks.
As for my description of benign, I’m not talking squish relativist liberal religion, you can be solidly faithful and not be a belligerent jackass who antagonizes people, I know plenty of people who easily reconcile the two, I’m just not sure atheists are capable of it, I realize I’m blanketing there, but honestly, there are few and far between from what I’ve seen.
I can’t stand either, quite frankly.
Bad Candy on October 11, 2007 at 11:45 PM
Scouting- America’s last, best hope to instill and preserve in our youth the values our founding fathers held dear! God bless the Boy Scouts of America on the 100th anniversary of the Boy Scout movement.
driller on October 12, 2007 at 11:42 AM
Comment pages: