Coulter: Jews will be “perfected” when they become Christians
posted at 2:53 pm on October 11, 2007 by Allahpundit
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I’m only linking this because we haven’t had a good Coulter throwdown in the comments lately, and plus it gives me a chance to link Omri Ceren’s eloquent diagnosis of the left’s bed-wetting over it. Breaking news: Christians believe all people ideally should be Christians.
COULTER: Well, OK, take the Republican National Convention. People were happy. They’re Christian. They’re tolerant. They defend America, they —
DEUTSCH: Christian — so we should be Christian? It would be better if we were all Christian?
COULTER: Yes.
DEUTSCH: We should all be Christian?
COULTER: Yes. Would you like to come to church with me, Donny?…
COULTER: No, we think — we just want Jews to be perfected, as they say.
DEUTSCH: Wow, you didn’t really say that, did you?
COULTER: Yes. That is what Christianity is. We believe the Old Testament, but ours is more like Federal Express. You have to obey laws. We know we’re all sinners —
DEUTSCH: In my old days, I would have argued — when you say something absurd like that, there’s no —
COULTER: What’s absurd?
DEUTSCH: Jews are going to be perfected. I’m going to go off and try to perfect myself —
COULTER: Well, that’s what the New Testament says.
You all would know better than I but that is, basically, what the New Testament says, isn’t it? She’s not talking about forcible conversion; she’s saying Christians believe the Judeo-Christian tradition is The Way and those who don’t follow the path all the way to the end aren’t quite where they need to be. (There are even Catholic prayers to this effect.) The word “perfected” is dicey insofar as it implies Christians’ superiority to Jews but she’s only referring to doctrinal superiority as far as I can see, which isn’t exactly a bombshell assertion coming from a Christian. Does the left really mean to suggest she thinks it’s Jews, uniquely, who need to be perfected but Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, etc. are all already co-equal with Christians spiritually? I take it she’d say we’re not even on the path at all and thus, unlike Jews, for the moment entirely unperfectable.
Well, no matter. The left’s tolerance brigades see their opportunity and they’re going to take it.
Exit question assurance to our Jewish readers: We atheists love you just the way you are, baby.
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Do Christians get to trample all over gays and atheists? They do it all the time. An eye for an eye! My crosshairs are centered directly on the most tender and vulnerable parts of your faith. You better put on the full armor of your god, Christian.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 9:46 AM
What’s so stupid about that? Explain the scientific definition of a “race”.
What’s so stupid about that? The Jews believe that Jesus is NOT the messiah. Am I mistaken, and the opposite is actually true?
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 9:49 AM
Easy boy. I put those words in quotes because that’s what they say – that’s their lingo. But of course, I made that clear already. How about you lay off the attack to indulge in a little reading comprehension?
Redhead Infidel on October 12, 2007 at 10:17 AM
You use a lot of violent imagery in your posts, Loundry. Stabbing, shooting, twisting knives, etc.
angryoldfatman on October 12, 2007 at 10:18 AM
I commend her for her comments. In todays world everybody can say, and does say, just about anything they want with no repercussions, EXCEPT people like Ann Coulter. Besides that, whats wrong with her touting her religion?? we give foot baths to muslims—wheres the outrage over that.
Volpe on October 12, 2007 at 10:18 AM
And Loundry, don’t bother trying to drag me into an atheist vs. Christian discussion because I just don’t give a damn. I’m an agnostic myself.
I was trying to point out that people getting their panties in a twist over the word “perfected” is akin to the Muslim mass thrashings that have become so tiresome.
Who cares what other people believe as long as they’re not sawing off heads and blowing people up? If you want to do something useful go to battle against the tenets of Islam – because there you’ve actually got something to worry about.
Redhead Infidel on October 12, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Christians don’t trample over gays and atheists, Loundry. That’s against the law.
And back to my prior comment, there were several mentions of people being raised from the dead in the NT – Lazarus at the command of Jesus; and two or three acts of the apostles, namely Peter and Paul. And one of the Gospels mentions that some were raised from their graves when Jesus was crucified. That’s all I can remember.
But there was only one person who was resurrected, meaning He came back in His imperishable, eternal, glorified body, and that was Christ.
Dork B. on October 12, 2007 at 10:26 AM
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
We experience another example that ALL people, Christians in particular, need to remove the beam from their own eye before sticking dirty fingers into the eyes of another to attempt castigating a mote.
Thank Mr. Deutsch for his good moral sense to call an end to mountain climbing on a mole hill, as he determines to see through and past the problem. This man’s appearance on NBC this morning was most admirable; he is top notch.
Ann is a loud mouth lime parading her public persona as her private as well. She reveals herself in the very ways Jesus admonished against. When she quits prostituting Jesus, she will avoid digging her own spiritual grave. At best, she herself represents the whitened sepulchre eschewed by Christ.
Christians seek humility, repentance, and redemption of the most personal realm. Jesus shared the spirit of God expressed through peace of mind and heart through compassionate acts of faith. Above all, love one another as Jesus, for in the least of all creation we can find God’s expression.
Judge not aside, if making a judgement, then obviously Mr. Deutsch is more perfect in his humanity than Ms. Coulter. He knows himself and bears no grudge. Jesus appreciated a man like Mr. Deutsch; behold, a man without guile.
Ms. Coulter is allowed to qualify herself. So leave her to her own business, as we attend to our own. Unwelcome noise distracts us from our better nature. We are called to cultivate our better fruits, and allow the master’s nurture and necessary pruning.
maverick muse on October 12, 2007 at 10:32 AM
Loundry,
Did a scan of this thread, because reading the whole thing would probably kill me. Jews, Christians and Coulter? Yeah, that sounds productive.
Your argument is the same, all the way through. You won’t get a straight answer because the question itself, posed by you, is sneaky. No, Christians aren’t perfect and the perfect Coulter is talking about isn’t akin to the 1972 Dolphins.
She’s selling a book. That book will be the same as all her other books. What’s this one about? Does it matter? Does she matter? No.
Krydor on October 12, 2007 at 10:37 AM
That’s why Christians support sodomy laws. That way, they can sentence gays to rape and loss of liberty while remaining within the law. See, Christians “love” gays.
Outside of that, they continually denigrate gay people and atheists. (This is where you go into “denial mode”.)
There were more than that, but it doesn’t help your argument so you aren’t that interested. Resurrection was a common occurrence in the Bible.
Were does scripture say that the others who were resurrected were perishable, non-eternal, and non-glorified?
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 10:44 AM
Wait a minute, it’s *my* fault that Christians can’t give me a straight answer?
And what, precisely, is so “sneaky” about the question I’m asking?
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 10:47 AM
So do Christians. “Sword of the Spirit”, “Spiritual war”, “I do not come to bring peace, but a sword” (Words of Christ there). Is your problem that you can dish it out but can’t take it? Perhaps Christians should stop with the “spiritual war” crap and then I will stop fighting back.
No, I don’t think you’re ready for that.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 10:50 AM
My bad. I’m not one who likes to let Christians win on anything, and I assumed from your words that you were one of them. And we know what happens when we assume…
Your criticisms of Islam are completely correct and you’re right: Islam is orders of magnitude worse than Christianity.
Where you and I disagree is in your contention that as long as people aren’t “sawing off heads and blowing people up” then they can believe whatever they want and shouldn’t be criticized for it. Elitism is wrong, and Christianity inspires people to be elitist, condescending, pompous gasbags. Christianity also inspires people to denigrate atheists and gays, and as a gay atheist, I take it quite personally. Christianity also inspires people to feel self-destructive guilt and shame for the rest of their lives. I won’t deny the good parts of Christianity, but I also won’t excuse the bad parts. Christianity isn’t perfect. In fact, in some ways, it’s downright harmful.
And I also am going to stand up for the fact that there is room in the anti-liberal, anti-Islam movement for people who think that Christianity sucks. Christians tend to treat conservative boards as “Christian territory” and suffice it to say that I’m going to be a thorn in their side when they pull that crap.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 10:59 AM
I just tried to call and got:
Press 1 for Hebrew
Press 2 for not chosen people
Wade on October 12, 2007 at 11:01 AM
What’s the PC way to say that Christians believe Jews should accept Christ?
First off, it was Sarah’s servant, not his, and it was Sarah’s idea that he impregnate her servant so that they could have a child.
I’m not saying that Abraham doesn’t get some blame here, but had Sarah just had faith that God was going to give her the child He promised, all of that would have been avoided.
I agree with you that she was being tactless, but she didn’t exactly announced that Aunt Sarah has bad breath without being asked.
The better example would be if Aunt Sarah asked an adult if she had bad breath. Coulter could have said, “Of course you don’t Aunt Sarah. You’re fine.” Or, she could have said, “Well, actually Aunt Sarah, would you like one of my breath mints? I’d like it if you had good breath.”
He asked her if she thought Jews should become Christians. Should could have said, “No, you’re perfectly fine believing that Christ isn’t your Messiah,” or she could have been honest.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 11:05 AM
Loundry,
You know, I just betcha that you believe every tenet of Darwinism and never question a thing about it but you jump at the chance to disagree that there are different “races”.
We are all members of the same species, Homo Sapiens. There are genetic difference between groups (and individuals) who cumulatively comprise the species Homo Sapiens, and those differences manifest themselves in many ways, race being one of them. Of course there are similarities between the races too, but having similar does not equal “one”.
I’ll tell you what though – why don’t you ask the government to stop dividing us up into different races, such as on census bureau forms? I’d be willing to support that, just as I support ending race-based initiatives. IMO Race-based data should be restricted to fields such as science, medicine, and anthropology and they certainly have no place in, say, college admissions criteria.
Next, you said (emphasis mine):
If you don’t know what Jews believe why are you telling us what they believe?
DUH.
Buy Danish on October 12, 2007 at 11:07 AM
Not exactly, at least not in the past tense. Christians believe that through Christ everyone can be perfected, but it’s not the kind of thing that happens in an instant. It’s not even the kind of thing that necessarily happens in one’s life.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 11:10 AM
What about Lazarus?
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 11:13 AM
Never mind, I get your point now.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 11:14 AM
From the link Allah provided:
I hope everyone on this thread reads that, especially the atheists who hate Christianity.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 11:27 AM
But you are referring to Jews who converted and why shouldn’t they still refer to themselves as Messianic Jews or Jews for Christ? Obviously they have the great tradition of Judaism that they grew up with and it doesn’t need to be thrown out the window because they converted.
Anyway, while I agree that Christianity for everyone that can be (peacefully) converted is the goal, as usual Coulter makes her point in the most over the top and offensive way possible.
Benaiah on October 12, 2007 at 11:31 AM
The following is really rich and required some thought by the original author to write: (Italic inserts mine)
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 11:35 AM
.
.
The word you could benefit from, Loundry, in your studies is: Imagination.
Imagination, would upgrade the rhetoric you insist on, Loundry.
Imagine that.
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 11:46 AM
Theological conversations are interesting and not insulting. Coulter, as a political commentator, purposely blurred the line between politics and religion by affirming that “It would be better if we were all Christian”. By doing so she’s getting the attention she finds so financially rewarding—good for her NYC is an expensive place and I’m sure she’s got bills to pay. Someone more interested in political commentary and less interested in PR pyrotechnics wouldn’t have implied that it is better for the U.S. if all the Jews converted to Christianity. In light of the history of inquisitions and pogroms, a Christian might want to avoid the inference of perfecting the United States through conversion.
dedalus on October 12, 2007 at 11:58 AM
This is from the article you linked to in your post.
,blockquote>YET THE QUESTION REMAINS. Why sacrifices? To be sure, they have not been part of the life of Judaism since the destruction of the Second Temple, almost 2,000 years ago. [emph. added]
We’re talking about two different things. You are speaking theologically about the sacrifices, and I’m focusing on the history of ritual practice of sacrifice. While it’s true in Isaiah 1:11, that God says he is “satisfied,” literally, the sense being more like “overfull,” or “gorged,” maybe even “gagging on,” this is God warning the Jewish people that He is not happy with their behavior, that all of their Temple practice is insincere and despicable, as in v 14 there, “Your new month, and holidays [sacrifices] are hateful to My soul.” He does NOT tell them to suspend the sacrifices though, and realize that at this time, there wasn’t any ritual for the average Jew, beyond observing the commandments and coming to the pilgrimage festivals. So when God famously says in v. 18, “Come let us reason together, sayeth the Lord, though your sins be scarlet they shall be white as snow. . . [19] if ye be willing and obedient you will eat the good of the land. . .,” being obedient can only mean– following the laws of purity and kashrut, doing the sacrifices properly, with holy intention, and following the commandments between man and his fellow that we see in Exodus, chapters 21-23. They can’t really be obedient without the sacrifices, so central were they to Jewish practice. That’s why when God basically tells them that their sacrifical practice is disgusting to them, He is hitting them where they live, because He knows (so to speak) that He will get their attention.
Thanks for your kind words. I’m sure glad none of these guys are getting after me–they’re a rough crowd!
You don’t have the kind of investment in the issue that many others do, and I agree that those who do have a big investment feel that theirs is the right one. That’s why what Ann Coulter said couldn’t have really added anything to the conversation; she stated the obvious, which could only really confuse and horrify those who are ignorant/uninvested in the issue, and bother those of other religions who do have a big investment. I agree with the writer about that she probably wanted to needle Deutch about being so irreligious; ironically it’s a testament to her comfort level with Jews (which to me bespeaks the philo-Semitism Debbie Schussel noted above) that she said what she said. I just think she misjudged her audience.
smellthecoffee on October 12, 2007 at 11:58 AM
Allah diagnosed this perfectly. It’s an opportunity to smear someone on the right based on what is basically a non-issue, i.e. Christians prefer Christianity. Shocker!
BTW, someone mentioned this above but it does appear this is the work of Media Matters.
John on October 12, 2007 at 12:12 PM
I don’t agree with Ann’s ’satire’ or her methods all the time but she sure got things started, didn’t she?
I have 2 of her books but didn’t want to buy this one when I read the title, not after she did this interview. I happen to think that the Repubs in office do not deserve to be supported by a conversion of libs (or nonpartisans like me) to ‘Republicanism’ as we know it.
I wish that she had thrown in that only the radical Muslims are using ‘religion’ to further their genocidal dogma and demanding that we non-Muslims ‘Convert or die!’. Any other religion is a million times better than that, but as a fairly devout Christian she is telling it like it is from her standpoint. (Again, I don’t agree but it doesn’t upset me as an agnostic.)
And did you notice that when someone from the right says something like this the Jewish population gets bent out of shape, but if a lefty says something clearly anti-Semitic, you only hear silence. Sorry if that offends, but that is not my intention, only my observation. We are all ‘children of God’ and should strive to find common ground, not take things personally to the point of building walls.
In the words of See-Dub: Pleeeeeease get over it folks! She does this every time she goes on TV/radio to sell her books.
Christine on October 12, 2007 at 12:15 PM
Rereading the transcript on the Fox site it reads as though in Ann’s perfect America all Jews would become Christians. I find that to be a terrible inference, and was wondering how it would sound if it had been applied to race. Upon further reading, I was surprised to see Ann speculatively generalize about interracial couples in New York City. Her statement is bizarre enough, but when Deutsch calls her on it she substantiates it with a Seinfeld episode. Ann needs to realize it’s just a TV comedy (about 4 narcissistic characters created by the misanthropic Larry David) that finished its run nearly 10 years ago. C’mon Ann you live in NYC and you rely on Seinfeld for your cultural insights into the people in the city?
dedalus on October 12, 2007 at 12:17 PM
The Bible itself CALLS for the conversion of the Jews in the End Times. In Fact it is quite necessary.
“They will look on the one whom they have pierced; they will mourn for him as for an only son, and weep for him as people weep for a first-born child.” (Zech.12:10-11).
*Therefore, when the Jews regain their sight at the end of time, they will accept the new Covenant. Acknowledging Jesus Christ as their savior, the Jews will become Christians.
Furthermore, “This is the culminating moment of prophecy, because it will complete the final prophetic utterance in the history of prophecy on earth. Immediately after this declaration has been made, Michael will call out the command and the End will be at hand.
It was only their blindness to this fact that prevented the Jews from becoming Christians in the first place. And that loss of sight was a divine decree for the sake of the salvation of the pagans.
When this divine decree is rescinded, the Jews will accept the kingship of Jesus with the same kind of fervor that Christians do now. The old Covenant will not come back. It has been replaced forever in Jesus Christ.
Jews and Christians will become one. The last to go into Babylon, the Jews will be the last to leave it. The final vestige of Israel’s captivity will have then come to an end. And that will be the signal for Jesus to return.”
This is all much ado about nothing. Ann has perfected making outrageous statements that she can win on appeal. Everyone gets so outraged that they miss what she is really saying and demonize her instead. AND it sells!
America1st on October 12, 2007 at 12:20 PM
I actually think that evolution is unscientific because it cannot be tested. Proponents of scientism (science as religion) get really, really testy when I state this fact. Evolution is a theory and will always be because it cannot be tested. The only reason it’s a better theory than the Christian creation myth is because it has much fewer and much less egregious mystical elements.
But what, specifically, separates one “race” from another?
Culture does. Culture defines race, not science. Don’t believe me? Visit Puerto Rico and ask what the difference between a “black” person and a “white” person is. Or visit Japan. In their “reality”, there are only two types of people: nihonjin and gaijin. It’s cultural, dummy, not scientific, and I reject the notion of races because the belief in separate races is the necessary bedrock of ALL racist beliefs.
Great, we agree on something, albeit for different reasons.
That’s really, really stupid. If we refrain from focusing on your emphasis, my sentence is: “I’m not sure what the Jews believe in particular.” The “in particular” is key because I don’t know if the Jews think he’s a myth or if they think he’s merely a lesser prophet; in other words, the particulars escape me, but everyone knows that the Jews do NOT think that Jesus is the messiah and do NOT think that he’s necessary for salvation. Your criticism amounts to a clumsy attempt to take my words out of context.
Maybe you’d like to answer the question: are the Jews stupid for rejecting Christ?
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 12:27 PM
Not from me, baby. No offence taken; you’re right. The problem is too many Jews are leftists themselves, and have made common cause with these anti-Semites, due to BDS. They’re taking the enemy of my enemy is my friend approach, so they keep quiet. For now. They day will come, though, when they will have a rude awakening. It happened to Israel’s “Peace Now” apologists for Palestinian terror, and it will happen here, too.
smellthecoffee on October 12, 2007 at 12:27 PM
You wonder if a Republican candidate might attempt a “Sister Souljah moment” using Coulter and one of her incendiary statements. She serves them up there like batting practice for a candidate to appear reassuring to the middle 40% of voters.
dedalus on October 12, 2007 at 12:27 PM
Messed up the emphasis.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 12:27 PM
There has been a lot of media attention to anti-Semitic statements by Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan.
dedalus on October 12, 2007 at 12:30 PM
Love that screencap of Ann, though. Gorgeous. What a shiksa goddess.
smellthecoffee on October 12, 2007 at 12:39 PM
I don’t know if a gotcha comment will be effective but a comment to the effect that the candidate admires the business acumen of Rush and Anne but don’t look to them as the voice of the GOP may go a long way to attracting moderate democrats.
Bradky on October 12, 2007 at 12:42 PM
And what, precisely, is so “sneaky” about the question I’m asking?
Loundry
The word “perfect” in the context scarecrow lady uses it. Look, this is killing me, any sort of Coulter defense, as she has shown herself to be intolerant, arrogant and just plain annoying long before this. Can’t stand her.
Christians don’t think they are perfect. Do they think they are religiously “better”? Why wouldn’t they?
Krydor on October 12, 2007 at 12:49 PM
Who appointed you the spokesman of all Christians? I’ve read several Christians here stating that yes, in fact, they are perfected. Or maybe thats “Christian perfection” (perfect, but not really) to correspond with “Christian love” (love, but not really). It’s hard to say. Christians often seem to talk out of both sides of their mouth when you try to pin them down on what, exactly, their crazy words mean.
Precisely! That’s why I’ve asked them, “Do you think you’re better off than the Jews, who stupidly reject Christ?”
And they clam up real tight. They’re nailed by Political Correctness, a thing they’re very proud to defy. Not this time around! Why is that?
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 1:06 PM
<offtopic>
I got a full-time job in June on top of my (now) on-the-side work at Hot Air, MM.com, Outside The Beltway, etc — I’ve been really busy! Plus, I’m sort of burned out on neo-conservatives, Bush, Iraq, etc. Don’t want to deal with hard-headed warriors with their Absolute Moral Authority™ on the grave existential threat of Islamo-fascist terrorism that, without their God-guided intervention, is going to convert us, enslave us, kill us, and make us buy tiny rugs with tassels. Plus I’m tired of not being able to even discuss the topic of liberty or restraint in our actions without being accused of wanting “the terrorists” to win. If I have to choose between unrestrained destruction of Islamic extremism (with complete acceptance of any and all collateral damage caused while pursuing that crusade) and “wanting the terrorists to win,” well, I won’t choose. I’ll let the bellicose battle it out with the peaceniks to their hearts’ content.
</offtopic>
Erm, I didn’t mention other religions. AP did. I was quoting him. And I’m not sure what you’re getting at.
sabbot says:
Bible says:
submarine_guy says:
Works prove the veracity of your faith, and thus, one alone won’t do it. It’s a dangerous argument to make that “if you have [real] faith, your works will reveal themselves,” because that will trick a lot of people into going through the whole “getting ’saved’” dance and then just count down the days until they get their harp. It also suggests that when people stumble, as people are ought to do, that their temporary lack of good deeds represents a lack of faith. And without faith, how are they supposed to pick themselves back up?
Same thing. Perfected = completed.
Hah! @ “submission.” Christian Tradition says that there are multiple paths to Christ, even without explicitly knowing him and accepting him by name. After all, not everyone ever hears about “Jesus” or gets to meet Pastor Billy Bob and his inflatable pool of salvation. Does God damn people to hell because they were born in a place Christian missionaries haven’t reached? That’s not the God I know. The God I know has an iPhone sitting on a cloud with AP’s name on it. :-)
Jews are considered to have a leg-up because they recognize God, and their idea of God is fairly compatible with that of Christianity. Also, many of the early Church Fathers were Jews themselves, so it is seen as a natural progression. Also, Jews themselves want to be “perfected” or “completed” by the coming of the Messiah. If they thought Jesus was he, they’d be on board with “completion” in a second. Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah (or is I guess I should say), so they regard Jews as potential Christians who missed the traffic signal and are currently sitting through a red light.
Mark Jaquith on October 12, 2007 at 1:14 PM
Two wrongs make a right? You’re supposed to be more rational and logical than that, Loundry.
angryoldfatman on October 12, 2007 at 1:17 PM
IMAGINE THAT.
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 1:20 PM
Who appointed you the spokesman of all Christians?
Well, I have yet to find one who thinks they are perfect. Find me the Christian who says “I am perfect”. That’s a sin!
I’ve read several Christians here stating that yes, in fact, they are perfected.
Has more to do with the afterlife than this one. Plenty of wailing, gnashing of teeth and constant repentance to reach an ideal based on a myth. All for a good seat in the afterlife.
Or maybe thats “Christian perfection” (perfect, but not really) to correspond with “Christian love” (love, but not really). It’s hard to say. Christians often seem to talk out of both sides of their mouth when you try to pin them down on what, exactly, their crazy words mean.
Dude, you are one angry Atheist. You can’t tar the entire Christian faith with that brush. That attitude is similar to the “all Muslims are terrorists and all terrorists are Muslim” reductions, and equally as stupid.
Krydor on October 12, 2007 at 1:31 PM
Actually that is not entirely correct. Think micro organisms, say bird flu.
MB4 on October 12, 2007 at 1:41 PM
Micro-organisms can test only a very small notion within evolution, but you raise a good point.
I suspect that bird flu is going to be like AIDS. In other words, a hoax borne from the worship of bad science. Do not debate me on this point unless you can tell me what an antigenic determinant is.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 1:51 PM
Oops, she got them again!
As some have commented, there’s nothing new here. I googled “christian perfected” and got this as the 3rd or 4th hit: http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PURGBAS.htm
In the first paragraph, the good Father states: “Purgatory is the state, after death, where souls who are not yet perfected in their love for God, are purified before admittance to the all holy God.” The term appears again in the next paragraph.
EconomicNeocon on October 12, 2007 at 1:53 PM
Ann Coulter said she was “perfected”, which means she was turned into something perfect by some process (presumably, by accepting Jesus Christ as per “personal lord and savior”). Many other Christians here agreed with her: perfected, which means, made perfect.
Again, who appointed you the spokesman of all Christians? I can accept that *you* think that “perfected” refers to the afterlife and not the present life. I can’t see how you can glean such a thing from Ann’s words, in which she said that Christians are “perfected Jews”, not “Christians will be perfected in the afterlife”.
I have debated with many Christians who have told me many crazy weird things. I confronted one with 1 Sam 15:3 where the “loving father” god had children and infants murdered, and I asked him if a loving father would kill his own children. He told me that he would kill his children if he loved him and it was necessary. I have had many Christians tell me that “true freedom” comes from Christ, and when I ask them if they are free to sin then they hem and haw. And of course I hear lots of this “Christian love” business that looks much like spite and malice when I’m on the receiving end. How about you announce to your congregation that you’re a gay atheist and see how much they “love” you after that? Try it, I dare you. My bitterness comes from the rotten treatment that I’ve received from Christians, not any desire to just pick on Christians for the fun of it. Walk a mile in my shoes sometime.
Now, are “all” Christians like that? Of course not. That doesn’t mean that the Christian religion is, in and of itself, harmful and bad. And it is both.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 2:00 PM
She was asked what a perfect world would be. And somehow it’s controversial that a Christian believes a perfect world would be filled with Christians.
I don’t know whether or not you read the full interview, but if you did, you would note that she tried to keep the conversation about politics. The interviewer wouldn’t have that.
Stupid is the wrong word. Stupid is a word better reserved for people who blindly accept a Messiah like the people who were convinced David Koresh was God even though he liked to have sex with little girls.
Jews don’t believe Christ is their Messiah. That’s their loss, sure, but that doesn’t make them stupid. It makes them cautious.
Yes, Christians believe we are better off than Jewish people. If we didn’t, we’d become Jewish. And if we decided that wasn’t better than all the other religions out there, we’d decide to try another religion.
This is really common sense, no more, no less.
You’re just angry because Christians believe homosexual behavior is a sin. I’m not even convinced you believe there is no God, because, as I previously quoted, “if someone’s confident in their beliefs, they don’t take it as an attack when someone else is also confident in their own beliefs.”
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 2:06 PM
If people truly followed Christ, do you believe you would receive such treatment?
You’ve read the Bible, you should know the answer.
Did Jesus leave any examples of how He would’ve treated you?
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 2:06 PM
Hem and haw? The answer here is simple. We’re free FROM sin. If we want to return to it, that’s something we’re free to do as well, like a dog returning to its vomit.
Most of us just realize that life is better without those chains.
You’re caught up in legalization, but that has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with man wanting to enslave others with an ideology.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 2:09 PM
AIDS is a hoax?
Do not debate me on evolution unless you can tell me what punctuated equilibrium is then!!! No cheating.
MB4 on October 12, 2007 at 2:13 PM
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 2:15 PM
I agree the Deutsch was pushing her, but she knows that she needs to deliver the product that she has created, which seems to me to be “Politics as Pro Wrestling”. I do think it is wrong to say that for America to be perfect the Jews need to convert to Christianity. It is an especially unpleasant inference given the way Jews have been mistreated in Europe, and to some extent in the U.S., over the centuries. Given the quote above, would you or Ann imply that for America to be a perfected the homosexuals need to convert to heterosexuality?
dedalus on October 12, 2007 at 2:23 PM
Loundry,
Genetics and DNA are “cultural differences”? What are you smoking?
As for your babbling about what Jews do and do not believe, I have no intention in engaging you, of all people, on the topic.
I was merely pointing out how stupid it is to opine about what “Jews believe” and then go on to say that you don’t really know what Jews believe. The fact that the words “in particular” were added did not make it any less idiotic.
Buy Danish on October 12, 2007 at 2:34 PM
Did you do this? If so, why? Did you expect them to do anything different than what they did?
If you didn’t desire to pick on Christians for the fun of it, you would not be so vitriolic in these threads. You could carry on with your life as you please, as happy as you want to be.
But you do desire to engage Christians, pointedly and vehemently. With very personally violent language, I might add. And you toss logic and reason out the window by doing so (two wrongs make a right, etc.).
What kind of rotten treatment did you receive? Does it justify your rage against all Christians, all of Christianity, and all religion? It must have been something very traumatic and/or something done to you by someone you trusted very much.
Since I can’t walk a mile in your shoes, help me understand.
angryoldfatman on October 12, 2007 at 2:40 PM
Typical Democrat response. Take ONE little thing I said and IGNORE the entire remainder of my comments (especially the bash-Ann sentiment evident here at/by HA).
I post here not because it “bugs” me. Usually I agree with most of your positions; but not all. I generally don’t get into ridiculous internet debates with commenters; and won’t here… So reply if you will; but I won’t dignify (by responding to) any future attempts at attacking a mere portion of my comments, which were absolutely correct.
I’ll just leave you with your apathy and ignorance; Coulter’s above piece was about religion. And while I understand you may not get that; you can debate the matter (Coulter/Religion) all you want, the issue is Ann, and the topic is Religion.
Hence, Religion Baiting. I know you (by your presence here at HA) enough for you to know that AP simply puts these topics up to get a few hundred hits because they’re a burning thorn in the Republican- Conservative side; which is what he wants and gleefully exploits; as an atheist and striving employee.
nationspatriotcom on October 12, 2007 at 2:44 PM
Again, who appointed you the spokesman of all Christians? I can accept that *you* think that “perfected” refers to the afterlife and not the present life. I can’t see how you can glean such a thing from Ann’s words, in which she said that Christians are “perfected Jews”, not “Christians will be perfected in the afterlife”.
Something to do with being able to discuss the topic fairly well, because I’m pretty well versed in the topic at hand. There’s a whole theology debate sitting there with all kinds of oddities that can be brought out. Seriously not interested in that and most of the points have been made by others. You are hung up on a word, that in the context Coulter uses, doesn’t mean what you want it to mean.
Does it mean that the New Testament is the final and most awesome version of Judaism? Does it mean that Christians are simply XXXtreme J0005? Does it mean that God likes Christians better than Jews?
As for the rest of it, I had those kinds of discussions about 15 or 20 years ago to the present day and none of the arguments/counterarguments have differed one jot or tittle.
Krydor on October 12, 2007 at 2:51 PM
You’re the first Christian who had the gonads to come out and say it. Why do you think that other Christians are reluctant to admit it?
I don’t care if you think gay sex is a sin or not considering that your beliefs on sin are practically guaranteed to be unbiblical and grounded entirely in your culture. I just want the Christian abuse of gay people and atheists to stop, and I do not think that is too much to ask.
This is a mutated form of the “Religion Pass”. In other words, there’s nothing wrong with you being “confident” in your beliefs — the problem is actually in me for having the audacity to criticize your beliefs. Did you ever consider that your religion might suck on its own regardless of whether or not I criticize it? That is certainly the case, and I recognize your vain yet common attempt at ad hominem (”You’re wrong because you’re not confident in your beliefs.”)
And you’re right: I do not believe that there is no god. Instead, I do not believe in a god. The difference is subtle but crucial (negative atheist v. positive atheist), and I doubt that you’ll have any interest in appreciating it.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 2:53 PM
You were never a Christian (if by Christian you mean born again through Christ). There’s no such thing as being an “ex-Christian” — you either are or you never were, period.
2Brave2Bscared on October 12, 2007 at 2:55 PM
But the “freedom” you speak of is “freedom in Christ”, and being “in Christ” and returning to sin are mutually-exclusive. Hence, you are NOT “free to sin” in your weird notion of “Christian freedom” (free, but not really).
How can you claim to be “without those chains” when you still continue to sin?
That’s a nice opinion. Other Christians disagree about what “legalization” means.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 2:56 PM
Chapter and verse?
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 2:57 PM
It’s more of a religion. The god of this religion is Death.
If you’re *really* curious about my views on this subject, then it’s a long, long, long discussion that I take very seriously, and I hate, loathe, and despise all conspiracy theories. If you’re just going to mock me and say that I’m “against science” then I’ll ignore you.
I’m okay with not debating about evolution.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 3:00 PM
Italic inserts mine:
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 3:02 PM
God commanded Saul to wipe that tribe out because of what Amelek had done to Isreal hundreds of years before. What’s love got to do with it? When Adam sinned, God declared that we would all die. We are all born into sin, the punishment for which is death and eternal speration from God. It is his love and mercy that allows us any time at all in this life. But he doesn’t owe you or I anything. And he certainly is not required to live up to your notions of fairness.
I’m sorry you were hurt by other Christians in the past. I hope you continue to question the faith, because I’m confident that it holds up to scrutiny.
Dork B. on October 12, 2007 at 3:09 PM
I don’t share my de-conversion story with Christians.
I understand how it would be good for you if I were to shut up, but I don’t see how that would be good for me.
I’m pretty even with Christians in the desire to engage, haven’t you noticed? It takes two to tango. And I’ve already responded to your point about violent language, so you can stop repeating yourself.
Self-defense is never wrong.
The normal way that gays and atheists are treated. Called “reprobate” and “abomination” and told that I’m “against nature”, i.e., a freak. Likened with pedophiles, thieves and murderers. Been told that I deserve to go to hell and that I am hated by god. Been legislated against. Had my patriotism questioned. You know, run-of-the-mill “Christian love”. It doesn’t feel bad to you because you’re not on the receiving end of it.
You have to understand that I am arguing against ten different people, most of whom expect a response from me. If it were one Christian against ten atheists, then it would be the Christian would look like the one guy spewing all the hate.
What justifies the anger in “angryoldfatman”?
Forgive me for not trusting you. I know that many Christians are kind and loving people, but I’ve been led down the “help me understand you” path before. I won’t make that mistake again!
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 3:14 PM
I wish Christians actually lived as Christ taught.
Then, the whole world would probably have no problem joining in on the enlightenment.
bridgetown on October 12, 2007 at 3:18 PM
I think you’re inferring too much about “what I want it to mean”. If you look back in the thread, I solicited opinions from Christians as to what “perfected” actually means, particularly considering that I would have been offended by that notion when I was a Christians (since only God is good). Clearly this is a matter of debate among Christians, and some of them definitely think that being a Christian makes them better than other people and they behave in accordance with their self-assumed elite position. As you might imagine, I find such elitism distasteful.
If you strip out the sarcasm, then those are valid questions.
You and I have different goals. It matters to me very much.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 3:20 PM
If you actually posed questions instead of doing the “edit and strikethrough” thing, then I would be interested in responding to you.
I think quoting others’ posts and putting strikethroughs through their words is no longer funny or interesting. It’s jumped the proverbial shark. If you have something to say, then say it and stop trying to be cute.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 3:22 PM
Doesn’t matter ultimately what Christians agree or disagree about, that’s why there are SO MANY DIFFERENT VARIETIES of Christian denominations, because they choose to disagree. Welcome to the free country of the U.S.A.
What matter’s is the fact that the teachings of Christ are, to FREE THE FOLLOWERS from the slavery to sin, but, it is not a carte blanc “SIN PASS”.
But, if they sin, they are immediately forgiven, if they ask for forgiveness and truly desire to turn 180 degrees (repent) away from it.
And, one can do that four hundred and ninety (490) + times a day if needed.
What a deal.
Any takers?
It really is that easy.
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 3:26 PM
You’re new at this.
Your god is allegedly a loving and merciful god. For god so loved the world and all that. Jesus loves the little children and all that.
And yet, look at your god’s behavior in the Old Testament! It’s *awful*!
This page really details all of your evil god’s exploits really well:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
What I found particularly nauseating was the incredible detail the Bible goes into explaining your god’s desire for the numerous animal sacrifices and the many references to the smell of burning animals which pleases your god. When I was a Christian, somehow the Bible Studies didn’t focus on these parts of the Bible. I was ignorant of just how deep the Bible goes into the meticulous description of killing animals and sacrificing them to the Lord. Disgusting!
Which turned out to be false, so Christians spin it as a “spiritual death”. Adam ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but he did NOT die. Instead, he lived to a very ripe age of 930.
which contradicts Deut 24:16.
And roasting and screaming while being tortured in hell for all eternity! Don’t trivialize it!
He is if he is called “just”. Unless you’re talking about “Christian justice” (just, but not really).
Who died on the cross — Jesus the god, or Jesus the man?
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 3:31 PM
If you strip out the sarcasm, then those are valid questions.
If I strip out the sarcasm, then it’s really boring.
You’ll find, as these types of discussions continue, a couple of things:
1) You will know about the Bible than the average Christian
2) You’ll change about zero minds
Don’t let this stuff eat you up. It’s a quasi religious, quasi philosophical discussion on the internet in a topic about Ann Coulter
Krydor on October 12, 2007 at 3:32 PM
Really? Which church is the One True church? Several of them claim to be, simultaneously claiming that the members of all other churches will go to hell.
Is the Sabbath Saturday or Sunday?
Is baptism necessary for salvation?
Are divorced-and-remarried people living in sin?
These questions aren’t as simple as you claim them to be.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 3:34 PM
Are you trying to tell me what to say, how to say, when to say, which words to say? Yes or No?
Good luck with that in the free country of the U.S.A.
Do you support freedom of speech? Yes or No?
Are you a speech dictator? Yes or No?
Did somebodies’s words hurt you very much? Yes or No?
Are you sensitive to what people believe in? Yes or No?
Do you feel superior in spewing vitriol out to other people who believe their belief is superior? Yes or No?
Do you have a problem with how I ask questions? Yes or No?
What is your problem?
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 3:38 PM
Romans 8:1-9
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
We are free from the requirements of the law of sin and death because Christ met the requirement for us. The Law requires 1) perfect obediance, and 2) that those who cannot perfectly obey must offer a blood sacrifice in the temple – a sin offering. But the blood of goats and bulls wasn’t sufficient for the forgiveness of sins. Christ never sinned, never broke the Law, but nevertheless was punished as though He did when He offered Himself as a sin sacrifice for those who are His own. And so the requirements are met within us when we accept Christ, repent, and are reborn according to the Spirit.
The crime was committed, we confessed our guilt, the sentance was handed down and the punishment was issued. we were crucified in Christ, buried, and raised in Him. We will not be judged a second time for a crime that Christ was already punished for on our behalf.
And no, this doesn’t give us a liscence to sin.
Dork B. on October 12, 2007 at 3:40 PM
To you. I find it very interesting. I love talking about religion and the Bible. De gustibus non est disputandum.
I take it you mean *more* about the Bible, and, yes, that’s proven to be true. I have met only a few Christians who know more about it than I do. Usually those are Christians who have been to Bible college.
I’m not interested in changing minds. It’s futile.
That’s actually good advice. I should take it more often.
And then a Christian comes around and starts telling me that I “need to be saved” and that I am “separated from god” or that I am a “deviant” with a “reprobate mind”.
And I’m ready to fight again! Such is life.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 3:40 PM
John 10: 28-30
Christ spoke about your situation in Mark 4: 13-19
You never knew the Lord. Even in the beginning your faith was without root, planted in a bed of thorns and stones.
But as Christ noted in the very next verse, there’s still hope for those who want to believe:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
2Brave2Bscared on October 12, 2007 at 3:41 PM
Newbies.
I’ll see your Paul and raise you one Jesus Christ:
“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” Mat 5:18, words of Christ
The last time I checked:
1. Heaven and earth have NOT disappeared
2. Your religion is called “Christianity”, not “Paulianity”
The old law stands because Jesus says so.
You don’t have to reiterate the Jesus Chainsaw Massacre to me, I have heard it before.
But what I don’t get is how Jesus could have died on the cross. Wasn’t he god? I thought god was eternal and thus could not die.
Yes, you *will* be judged again! Read Mat 25:31-46 (it’s too long to quote here). In that instance, you will be judged according to your works, not according to your faith. Jesus gives eternal bliss to those people who have done five specific works.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 3:49 PM
This is actually evidence for “once saved, always saved”. If this verse is true, then I am still going to heaven despite my apostacy, since I cannot snatch myself out of Jesus’ hand.
Your claim is not Biblical, because if I “never knew the Lord”, then there would be no sowing among the bed of thorns or stones. Jesus clearly states that sowing took place. That was my Christianity. Then I realized it was crap, so I stopped believing it. And it still is crap, and I can tell you why. It is a guilt-based religion that teaches people that they’re just as evil as John Wayne Gacy. It gets people to feel badly about themselves so that they come to church for the “fix”. This is harmful. You should reform your religion and get rid of the gospel or de-convert and become an atheist. You do have a choice.
If only a Christian could tell me *how* to be saved, then that empty promise might have some, well, promise. There are many different competing theories on how salvation works, each one backed up with scripture. I can think of six mutually-exclusive Biblical methods of salvation off the top of my head.
Loundry on October 12, 2007 at 3:58 PM
Loundry,
My answers are in italics, right after you’re quote, line by line:
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 4:00 PM
Loundry,
I know you are going to take your good time to respond to my questions.
I’ll check back later..
Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 4:08 PM
Loundry wrote:
Why not? You are anonymous here, so you’re not really risking anything. Aren’t you proud of who you are? Don’t you want others to be tolerant of you and people like you?
I just wanted to know what you expected to happen, and how your expectations were different than what actually happened. If they did something very bad to you for coming out, why wouldn’t you want everyone to know? Doesn’t it help others understand where you’re coming from?
I just don’t see how you can derive enjoyment from stoking your bitterness, if indeed you were telling the truth about your not wanting to pick on Christians. When I’m doing something I enjoy, like posting on blogs or making silly videos, I stop if it makes truly angry or bitter.
Be honest. With me and especially with yourself.
So you can’t show yourself to be the better man than those you dislike? How can you be better than them if you can’t behave better than them?
I can’t say I’ve seen every thread here, but in every single one in which I’ve conversed with you, you’ve been the one initiating the attack. Why not try civility and restraining yourself to counterattack?
Unless you perceive the very existence of some people to be an attack upon you, which is not rational or logical at all.
Your response was that you’re defending yourself. I didn’t see anyone else talk about stabbing or shooting atheists or gays, so I’m repeating it until I get a logical, rational answer. Or until you choose to ignore it again. :)
You got called names? Those can hurt somebody’s feelings, yes.
But you don’t believe those things exist. If a Pastafarian told me I was hated by the Flying Spaghetti Monster and I was going to the Boiling Pit of Alfredo when I died, would I have a right to hate him or her?
It’s illegal to be gay and/or atheist? That’s news to me.
What things are you not allowed by law to do that you want to do? Get married to somebody of the same sex? Did you want that “right” before it became a political issue?
Arguing with more than one person justifies hate and bitterness, whereas arguing with one doesn’t?
LOL! My online name is merely a persona I’m using for my Youtube videos and other online stuff.
The only things really making me angry these days are politicians and other people trying to screw up my kids’ futures. Other than that, traffic jams and loopy tourists. :D
I’m sincerely sorry you feel that way. I understand a good part of that, and wish you hadn’t experienced the betrayal you seem to have encountered.
Thanks, Loundry.
angryoldfatman on October 12, 2007 at 4:21 PM
Ann is terrific. I was thinking however, that she should add a new tag line to her newest bestseller:
If Democrats Had Any Brains They’d Be Republicans … but if Republicans had any balls, they’d still control Congress.
wytammic on October 12, 2007 at 4:38 PM
576 comments?!!! She really does ROCK. :)
wytammic on October 12, 2007 at 4:39 PM
Loundry,
Again, He doesn’t need to live up to your notions of fairness. He is the one who makes the rules. And when I said that when Adam sinned, God declared that we would all die, you replied:
Did you mean that he didn’t immediately die? Very good, that’s correct. Adam did eventually die having been denied the fruit of the tree of eternal life by God because he had sinned. And everyone after him, as well. This is part of God’s punishment.The fact that it wasn’t immediate annihilation argues well for God’s mercy.
And no, My statement that we are born into sin does not contradict Deut 24:16 – a civil law regarding that no one be punished for a sin they didn’t commit. I’m talking about Original Sin, the Fallen Nature of man. Try Rom 5: 16-19:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.
Then you go on to state that God is required to adhere to yout standards of fairness by saying
Uh, that’s just wrong. Are you new to this? God doesn’t need your endorsement. Especially since you have such a misunderstanding of the Christian faith. He doesn’t need Billy Graham’s endorsement, either. He’s God. he determines what’s fair, not us. He’s all-knowing, all-powerful, He makes the rules, and we are the ones in the wrong, not Him. Get over yourself.
Dork B. on October 12, 2007 at 4:43 PM
First off, she didn’t mean just Jews.
Second, heterosexuality doesn’t imply any sort of morality about a person the way religion does. It’s not the same thing.
There is nothing inherently good or evil about heterosexuals. A world full of heterosexuals still includes things like pedophilia, rape, incest and so many other things.
Christianity comprises a set of moral beliefs. Those who believe Christianity is the best set of moral beliefs believe a world with Christians is best.
Tell me, especially considering how badly Jewish people have been treated over the years, wouldn’t a perfect world for Jewish people include only Jewish people?
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 4:44 PM
I don’t really care to understand. I been treated horribly by a few black people. Does that mean it’s OK for me to become a racist?
A friend of mine did. She was assaulted and molested by some black teens and went through a phase where she hated all black people.
She was wrong then. Loundry is wrong now.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 4:47 PM
We’re here on this thread because someone did exactly that. Apparently some have such gonads. I can’t speak for the others.
Sane people agree with you, so what’s the problem? There are crazies out there who will persecute any and everyone.
It’s certainly not Christian dogma to attack anyone.
There’s no reason for that information to interest me. I don’t dislike you, but we’re not exactly friends. And atheism hasn’t interested me personally since my husband was one.
It was worth it to talk to him only because I loved him, not because I enjoyed the futile debates.
And no, that wasn’t my attempt at an attack on you. I’m merely stating that if you’re confident in what you believe, then you shouldn’t be lashing out at Christians.
You don’t help yourself by attacking others. You help yourself by learning from others, even from those who seem unreasonable. If you can’t do that, then you’re waisting your own time.
And honestly, I don’t care what you think of Christianity. You, with the chip on your shoulder, are not an unbiased person in this discussion.
You can think Christianity is a bad religion, but to make a decent argument, you’ll actually have to talk about the religion, not a few f-ed up people.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 5:01 PM
Whether or not that’s true, would it have helped your friend, while she was recovering from her attack, to tell her she was wrong to feel what she felt? I don’t think so.
I’m trying to help myself and Loundry here. He feels hate and bitterness, and I want to understand why somebody would want to keep hating and keep staying bitter, instead of moving on and being happy.
angryoldfatman on October 12, 2007 at 5:04 PM
Anyway, I gotta roll out for now, I’ll be back later tonight, probably with (more than) a couple of beers under my belt. :)
angryoldfatman on October 12, 2007 at 5:07 PM
If you’re referring to me, I never said that. I said that Christians are better-off, and that’s not at all the same.
Wealthy people are better-off, but that doesn’t make them better people.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 5:10 PM
The founders were well aware of the dangers of intertwining organized religions with government. My more perfect union is expressed in the U.S. Constitution. I’m not an arbiter of who’s ideas about the supernatural are more accurate, but I hope America continues to be a country where people who have differing concepts of the divine can continue to fully participate without the notion that they are imperfect.
dedalus on October 12, 2007 at 5:11 PM
It might. I don’t worry much about it, though I might if I was contemplating a move to Israel. I haven’t contemplated such a move.
dedalus on October 12, 2007 at 5:12 PM
I must break my resolve not to butt into this thread…by acknowledging you, Loundry, and for paying you a compliment for indeed you have taken on all challenges and handled yourself well.
RushBaby on October 12, 2007 at 5:14 PM
Good luck with that, but as someone with experience in trying to help bitter people, I don’t see you getting anywhere. As he said, he doesn’t even want to trust you just because you’re a Christian.
I’m not black. It didn’t hurt me personally to talk to my friend while she was in her racist phase. But my black friends had a different impression of the situation, especially when she wrote KKK all over her walls.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 5:19 PM
I love Ann. From my experience, people who don’t fall into several categories. 1) screaming libs 2) wannabe conservatives who don’t understand what conservatism really means 3) bigots that think her opinions make her un-American when its precisely her opinions that make her American and their bigotry the real bigotry.
RobertCSampson on October 12, 2007 at 5:22 PM
Most people don’t think about it, but Coulter was specifically asked this question.
I’ve asked you this question and you’ve agreed that life probably would be better for you if everyone was your religion. I fail to see the difference.
Esthier on October 12, 2007 at 5:23 PM
Quote time!!!
It ain’t the parts of the Bible that I can’t understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.
- Mark Twain
Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
- Robert A. Heinlein
MB4 on October 12, 2007 at 5:35 PM
I love it when you comment! Agreed. :)
wytammic on October 12, 2007 at 5:39 PM
I didn’t say such a thing and wouldn’t. If you look at my posts from 5:11 and 5:12, I think you’ll see the opposite.
dedalus on October 12, 2007 at 5:43 PM
Your 3 categories of people each contain a label of ridicule (i.e., screaming libs, wannabe conservatives, bigotry). You’ve learned the Coulter style well. I think the signature accomplishment of AC is to help lower the level of political discourse to that of the blue seats during a Rangers/Islanders game at MSG. In the realm of political speech, the lines between people that she tries to highlight and the demeaning of those with different opinions are ultimately poisonous contributions.
dedalus on October 12, 2007 at 5:58 PM
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