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Video: Hannity begs Dobson not to make Hillary president

posted at 10:44 pm on October 8, 2007 by Allahpundit
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To no avail. The money part comes at the end, when he explains why it would actually be better for Hillary to be president than Rudy. For him, that is. Not for you.

I snipped out the obligatory reminder that he’s speaking solely in his capacity as a private citizen, no different from you or I, which I guess explains why he got 25 minutes on the second-most widely watched news show on cable to expound on his opposition to Giuliani.

Exit question: Is he seriously citing Rudy’s appointments of municipal court judges as evidence of how he’d make Supreme Court picks?

More (Bryan): I respect Dr. Dobson and admire his principles and even some of his thinking in this interview. I don’t agree with his conclusions, but I respect how he gets there. He’s a man of principle and his principles are sound. I do think that he’s mistaking the world of politics as a place where perfection and purity are possible, when it’s neither. It’s not even close.

The most fundamental problem that I see in his conclusion is that he knows full well that if he siphons off even a percent or two from the GOP candidate to some doomed third party candidate, he will be handing the election to a radical pro-choice candidate who among other things is likely to be very bad on the war and awful across a whole range of issues that Dobson rightly holds dear. And the rest of the GOP will end up blaming him and social conservatives for her ascension to power.

But on the other hand, supporting a GOP candidate who stands at odds with most of the things Dobson and other social conservatives have fought for, for decades, may well have the unintended consequence of further marginalizing social conservatives. Most Republicans who aren’t all that socially conservative will probably celebrate that, but the long term effect of that will probably be to weaken the GOP as a broadly conservative coalition. The social cons are in many ways the anchor that keeps the party conservative, and without them we’ll have a much weakened GOP that may remain fiscally conservative but otherwise probably won’t stand for very much. Some may argue that independents will be more attracted to the GOP if the social cons aren’t there, and that may be true, but it seems unlikely to me that enough independents will become solid Republicans to replace the social cons as a movement. Independents aren’t exactly known for their loyalty to anything in particular when it comes to politics and don’t fuel lasting or effective movements. They tend to shift with the wind. That’s what makes many of them independents.

Social cons are really looking at a landscape with few good options in front of us. The strongest socially conservative candidate still standing is probably McCain, but he has had the habit of betraying conservative principles when it suits him, and he’s not going to last much longer anyway. Given Romney’s zigzagging on so many issues, it’s fair to wonder who he really is. And I say that as someone who generally likes him. Fred hasn’t shown much fire yet and hasn’t moved up on Giuliani in the polls very much. Hunter and Huckabee and Tancredo and the rest just don’t seem to have a shot, which is unfortunate and may be a sign of things to come: The most solidly and uncompromisingly conservative candidates probably have the least chance of winning. That’s probably due to their particular backgrounds and biographies, but it also may tell us something about where the party may be heading.

So with few good options and the likelihood of a Giuliani vs Clinton race, what do we do? I’m struggling with the question myself, but I don’t think it’s a good idea except as a way of warning to do what Dr. Dobson is doing now. It’s fine to warn the party that you aren’t happy with the candidates and that you’ll do what you can to hold the party to its conservative principles no matter who wins the primary. I don’t think it’s wise to toy with third party talk. He didn’t do much of that in the interview tonight, but he has been doing it here and there in recent weeks. That’s the nuclear option in my opinion, but it’s being deployed against one’s own party. It’s really a Samson strategy, and deploying it will bring the house down upon us. Would that get us closer to or farther away from becoming a more conservative country? It’s hard to argue that handing the presidency to the likes of Hillary Clinton can do much but damage the country as a whole and the conservative movement in particular.

Now, all of that said, I’d still like to point out that it’s not demagoguery for Dr. Dobson to offer his opinion on Giuliani. The fact is, Giuliani’s record is what it is. Much of it is very good, and I agree with George Will that Giuliani’s mayoral record is strikingly conservative in many ways. It’s also strikingly liberal in many ways and strikingly wrongheaded in a couple of ways. Giuliani’s marital record is fair game because of how Giuliani himself has handled his private life, and I do fear that we may be setting ourselves up for bimbo eruptions if he’s in the White House. That kind of thing just seems to have been wired into him. It’s not demagoguery to wonder about any of that, to dread it happening, and to point out that you have problems with some or all of it. It’s politics and it’s life. We could do with less name-calling on our side among fellow Republicans, just as we could do with fewer third-party warnings of the kind that Dr. Dobson has been floating.


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Is choosing a candidate that is not evil but has a different set off religious beliefs evil?

Meaning if you are an evangelical, is it evil to choose a Catholic or Morman?

Mcguyver

It’s only choosing evil if the candidate’s stances are evil. So if they are pro-abortion then you are choosing evil if you vote for them.

Sins of omission and sins of commission. You are advocating the abdication of our responsibility to make the best choice. By refusing to make any choice, you tacitly choose the greater evil.

csdeven

But Dobson isn’t saying we shouldn’t make a choice. He’s saying a third choice should be provided for those that don’t want a pro-abortion candidate.

Benaiah on October 9, 2007 at 11:18 AM

Dr. Dobson is right on with Rudy! Hang in there!

sabbott on October 9, 2007 at 11:24 AM

He’s saying a third choice should be provided for those that don’t want a pro-abortion candidate

yeah, a 3rd choice that will guarantee President Hillary.

someone needs to send them a book on basic arithmatic.

With Rudy, you have a shot at constructionist Judges nominated to the court, with Hillary it will be guaranteed nothing but Activist Judges. And there are atleast 2 SCOTUS nominees coming up for next POTUS…….IMO this is part of why they have politized the war so much, if they lose this election they lose their god for a generation.

jp on October 9, 2007 at 11:24 AM

The first Repub. candidate who says “I reject all forms of religious fanaticism” gets my vote.

Ditto for me, politics and religion do not mix and were never supposed to.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 2:16 AM

The old PC moral equivalence between religions? Profoundly undiscerning.

MB4 on October 9, 2007 at 11:25 AM

He’s saying a third choice should be provided for those that don’t want a pro-abortion candidate

How about a third choice for those who do not want to choose between two democrats.

MB4 on October 9, 2007 at 11:27 AM

The money part comes at the end, when he explains why it would actually be better for Hillary to be president than Rudy.

Last time I checked, Hillary Clinton was enthusiastically pro-abortion.

The “Reverend” Dobson’s jihad against Rudi Giuliani (and other Republican moderates too) has nothing to do with morality or principles.

It’s all about this man’s gigantic ego and his desire to be kingmaker.

Mike Honcho on October 9, 2007 at 11:28 AM

The way I look at it is this way: if the Religious Right wants to take such a gamble let them. And if they end up discovering the the entire culture of the South and the Heartland is radically changed to look like New York and California and secularism radically replaces their traditions….THEY WILL HAVE BROUGHT IT ON THEMSELVES

GogglesPisano on October 9, 2007 at 11:40 AM

Principles!! This man is either a fool or on the Clinton payroll. No one could be that short-sided and stupid to see what the out come would be for our country if Cankles is elected. I used to respect Dr. Dobson. That has gone out the window with his ego.

Winebabe on October 9, 2007 at 11:42 AM

Benaiah on October 9, 2007 at 11:18 AM

I misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry.

csdeven on October 9, 2007 at 11:48 AM

The most fundamental problem that I see in his conclusion is that he knows full well that if he siphons off even a percent or two from the GOP candidate to some doomed third party candidate, he will be handing the election to a radical pro-choice candidate who among other things is likely to be very bad on the war and awful across a whole range of issues that Dobson rightly holds dear. And the rest of the GOP will end up blaming him and social conservatives for her ascension to power.

Bryan,

The problem with this is that the GOP has already done this to itself by all of the Mexicans it let into the country.

Dobson has very little influence. A certain segment of the evangelical population listens to him, but I think this number is very small. One hardly hears his name mentioned in evangelical circles nowadays.

Dobson needs to stay out of politics, granted, but there’s no point in blaming him for what the Republicans have already made a demographic fait accompli. The only chance they have is to capture the white vote. Once that’s demographically marginalized, there’s not much hope for them.

PRCalDude on October 9, 2007 at 11:48 AM

So, that portion of the population is much closer to Rudy that the hard-liner Dobson.

Of course they are, the people that support Dobson and his world view are very very small. They just believe they are the larger part of the picture.

Again, this idea that the GOP is the party of evangelicals and only there to serve evangelicals is ridiculous. The party is a large tent and should not pander to people like Dobson. There are many members of the GOP that are more concerned about fiscal responsibility, which is and has been the core issue of the party through-out history. The evangelicals played an important role – they were pandered to, promised the sun, sky and sea for a reason – for their votes.

The idea that abortion and gambling and these other social issues have always been the most important issues to the GOP is just not true. Let’s be real, these issues came to light with the Religious Right in the 1980s and only really concern the evangelical core that was harvested for the votes. Rudy would like less abortions but supports a woman’s right to choose. He is a prime example of the mainstream GOP.

Dobson clearly shows his true colors. If he doesn’t get his way he simply picks up all his toys and leaves the sandbox. He should support a third candidate in the Constitution Party where he is better served and better suited for.

The GOP can garner votes from mainstream America easily, the Independents, the Libertarians and the Conservative Dems can and will vote Republican, we do not need the idealogues.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 11:49 AM

The mayor of New York doesn’t have the power to pick his own judges. As mayor, Giuliani had to choose from a slate of candidates chosen by someone else. So none of the candidates were “his” in any meaningful sense.

Slublog on October 9, 2007 at 9:25 AM

Thanks for this info. I wasn’t aware of how that worked.

Pam on October 9, 2007 at 11:50 AM

Like I already said, The Religious Right needs to look at California, New York, New Jersey and a few other states and see what happens when you get a left wing majority that is permanent.

GogglesPisano on October 9, 2007 at 11:58 AM

In the end it wont matter who Dobson/Focus on Family endorse. I still believe that he will have little influence.

Everyone is wondering “will Republicans split?” Well, nominate Hillary and watch how united they become!

No worries…Dems will do all of the work for us…they are hard at work as we speak. 1) Anti war wackos heard all Dem candidates say “cant get out of Iraq by 2013″ money may dry up a bit OR their voter stay home?, 2) Reid/Pelosi’s glaring ignorance and misunderstanding of 06 election results, 3) Moveon.org ad helps GOP fundraise…oops, 4) Dem candidates range from liberal to highly liberal in a center-right country and the one of the highly liberal candidates has the “lead” (for what its worth now).

There will be this continued breathlessness in reporting by news and esp the pundits. Me, I think that it will be over before it starts no matter who they nominate.

Landslide08, yup, heard it here first even though I wont get credit later. LOL!

OSUBuciz1 on October 9, 2007 at 11:59 AM

The only chance they have is to capture the white vote.

Ridiculous statement, the GOP can capture any votes from mainstream America, regardless of color, and they will. Think outside of the box and not about where you live and your personal situation.

The Democratic Party has moved very Far Left in many ways. America is a mainstream country, the bulk of the population is not Far Right or Far Left, in fact they are very put off by this type of extremism.

Now more than ever the country is looking for a non partisan candidate and party that will bring the country together, not polarize it more. Middle of the road America that is concerned about fiscal responsibility, low taxes will vote Republican.

The GOP needs to worry about the bulk of mainstream America. There are tons of voters out there, just need to reel them in.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 12:00 PM

And Hillary may get the nomination for the Dems but she will and can never win.

Mainstream America will never vote for a woman, I just don’t think America is ready for that quite yet.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 12:02 PM

How many of you Conservative Christians have taken the time to pray for the outcome of this election. Prayer works. Please make it a priority and stop fighting each other.

GoodBoy on October 9, 2007 at 12:02 PM

The Constitution Party is already salivating –

http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=659

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 12:06 PM

Ronald Reagan was not able to get rid of any of the ‘butter’ programs started by LBJ or FDR….not a one, its not politically possible, the “GOP elite” are responding to that fact and trying to limit new advances and place capitalist principles in others. Its a natural thing on their part, to recognize a failure and try a new strategy. The only way we can have small govt. again is a reveloution and mass transformation of our culture.

jp on October 9, 2007 at 10:44 AM

This is not true – the GOP managed to pressure Clinton into signing significant welfare reforms. Government CAN be reduced, when we have the political will to fight for it. The problem is that the GOP is weak. I can’t get excited about fighting for a party that won’t fight for me, and I think a lot of others feel the same way.

Laura on October 9, 2007 at 12:12 PM

Rudy would like less abortions but supports a woman’s right to choose. He is a prime example of the mainstream GOP.

That’s like saying ‘he would like fewer murders, but supports the right to choose to kill’. That’s why the whole idea is ridiculous to pro-lifers. The fact that he ’says’ he’s against abortion but ‘for’ the right to abortion shows he’s not really against abortion because he doesn’t understand WHY abortion is BARBARIC.

The last I checked there is still a PLANK on the REPUBLICAN platform that says ‘we support legislation that recognizes the sanctity of life’ (ie. pro-life). Until that gets changed, those people here saying that Republicans aren’t pro-life don’t know the Republican platform.

Again, I love when people say, don’t worry about ‘those people’ who are pro-life. They rail against their position WHICH IS A PLANK OF THE REPUBLICAN PLATFORM, and then they say that they are irrelevant.

If they are irrelevant, stop talking about them. It won’t matter who they vote for. If they vote 3rd party there are so few of them it won’t make a difference, right?

At this point I’m convinced that if the Republicans believe a liberal RINO from NY who supports abortion, takes guns away, ran a sanctuary city is the best choice, then SURELY a fiscally practical stance like legalization of drugs can’t be that ‘radical’.

I think it’s time for a 3rd party candidate. Otherwise if it is Rudy vs Hillary it is Liberal vs. Liberal.

ThackerAgency on October 9, 2007 at 12:19 PM

later social cons!!! you’re half-assed attempt at reforming american culture has given us a whole bunch of wasted time and opportunity. you’re ignorance of the real issues that are at the heart of government itself has led us on a course we need not be on.

congradulations for not only steering the party in the wrong directions, but thanks a lot for threatening to bolt now that everyone realizes you are full of
sh!t.

the turf war over the republican party has begun, let us all hope that our party can once again focus on helping america’s businesses and strengthening america’s defense…not playing stupid meaningless games about morals.

ernesto on October 9, 2007 at 12:20 PM

Is choosing a candidate that is not evil but has a different set off religious beliefs evil?

Meaning if you are an evangelical, is it evil to choose a Catholic or Morman?
Mcguyver on October 9, 2007 at 12:09 AM

It’s only choosing evil if the candidate’s stances are evil. So if they are pro-abortion then you are choosing evil if you vote for them.
Benaiah on October 9, 2007 at 11:18 AM

Thanks for the clarification.

Mcguyver on October 9, 2007 at 12:21 PM

Meaning if you are an evangelical, is it evil to choose a Catholic or Morman?
Mcguyver on October 9, 2007 at 12:09 AM

Kennedy was much more conservative than Rudy. It’s not a Catholic thing. I’d have voted for Kennedy long before Rudy regardless of the R or D.

Plus, I think John Roberts (Catholic) for SC was the best appointment in my lifetime.

ThackerAgency on October 9, 2007 at 12:26 PM

Ridiculous statement, the GOP can capture any votes from mainstream America, regardless of color, and they will. Think outside of the box and not about where you live and your personal situation.

I guess hope springs eternal. The GOP has certainly disappeared in California as a result of the Mexican vote. The (much) less upwardly mobile Mexicans always vote for wealth redistribution. The Democrats are the best at providing it.

PRCalDude on October 9, 2007 at 12:28 PM

This is not true – the GOP managed to pressure Clinton into signing significant welfare reforms. Government CAN be reduced, when we have the political will to fight for it. The problem is that the GOP is weak. I can’t get excited about fighting for a party that won’t fight for me, and I think a lot of others feel the same way.

Laura on October 9, 2007 at 12:12 PM

A hearty amen to that.

PRCalDude on October 9, 2007 at 12:29 PM

And Hillary may get the nomination for the Dems but she will and can never win.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 12:02 PM

She most certainly can win.

MB4 on October 9, 2007 at 12:49 PM

It’s only choosing evil if the candidate’s stances are evil. So if they are pro-abortion then you are choosing evil if you vote for them.
Benaiah on October 9, 2007 at 11:18 AM

In hindsight was it evil to vote for George W. Bush Jorge doubley-u. Boosch since he didn’t protect us from border intrusion as the presidential oath requires him to do?

Mcguyver on October 9, 2007 at 12:50 PM

The fact that he ’says’ he’s against abortion but ‘for’ the right to abortion

ThackerAgency on October 9, 2007 at 12:19 PM

That is exactly what Hillary says.

MB4 on October 9, 2007 at 12:51 PM

Meaning if you are an evangelical, is it evil to choose a Catholic or Morman?
Mcguyver on October 9, 2007 at 12:09 AM

Kennedy was much more conservative than Rudy. It’s not a Catholic thing. I’d have voted for Kennedy long before Rudy regardless of the R or D.
ThackerAgency on October 9, 2007 at 12:26 PM

Who do you think is the most conservative top tier candidate now, along the likes of JFK, regardless of the R or D, or religion?

Mcguyver on October 9, 2007 at 12:55 PM

the turf war over the republican party has begun, let us all hope that our party can once again focus on helping america’s businesses

ernesto on October 9, 2007 at 12:20 PM

The Republican party, which until recently had the Presidency, the Senate and the House has been helping America’s illegal employing businesses. That is one of the problems.

MB4 on October 9, 2007 at 12:55 PM

the turf war over the republican party has begun, let us all hope that our party can once again focus on helping america’s businesses and strengthening america’s defense…not playing stupid meaningless games about morals.

Thank you, let us all pray for this indeed.

The last I checked there is still a PLANK on the REPUBLICAN platform that says ‘we support legislation that recognizes the sanctity of life’ (ie. pro-life). Until that gets changed, those people here saying that Republicans aren’t pro-life don’t know the Republican platform.

Added very late to the paltform and you know it.

As Republicans are main focus is defense, business friendly and fiscal responsibility. We are the party of small government – we do not legislate silly social issues, or we never did until the Moral Majority and the Religious Right rear their heads and got into the mix.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 12:59 PM

It’s only choosing evil if the candidate’s stances are evil. So if they are pro-abortion then you are choosing evil if you vote for them.
Benaiah on October 9, 2007 at 11:18 AM

if you seriously believe this is about good and evil, you should not be voting. We are not in a Harry Potter story here, this is reality and life.

And how do you decide who is evil – by throwing stones into a pond and seeing if they sink or float?

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 1:02 PM

Dobson finally came clean in the last bit of video: He would, in fact, prefer a Hillary presidency to a Giuliani one. His strategic reasoning isn’t absurd, if one is boresighted on abortion and the political cohesion of evangelical politics–an outright enemy in the White House is more likely to incense the “tribe,” motivating it to band together. A more ambivalent figure won’t trigger such intense emotions.

Unfortunately, I fear he either underestimates or simply doesn’t care about the profound and essentially irreversible damage that Hillary will wreak in virtually all other arenas of public policy. Worse, I fear he might not fully appreciate the power and utter ruthlessness of the Clintons (and there should be no question that he’ll be having to contend with both of them again). If they manage to re-take the presidency, it will be with a vengeance, and if Dobson or any other Clinton enemy thinks his movement is going to coast through their regime unscathed, he will likely be in for some rude surprises. The highest Clinton priority will not be to govern, but to do whatever they can think of and get away with to ensure that Republicans are at a disadvantage in all future American elections. That bodes more ill for Dobson’s evangelicals than he seems to grasp.

Blacklake on October 9, 2007 at 10:16 AM

I agree with the above analysis.

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 1:06 PM

Laura on October 9, 2007 at 12:12 PM

they reformed it, thanks to a pragmatic Dem president and newt, long after Reagan. But they did not get rid of it, its here to stay. The big issue now is Health care, basically America is either voting to Socialize the entire system(vote for Dem president or 3rd party) or voting to either modify it with actual capitalist/market reforms or the Rudycare type option, neither option makes it entirely free market.

Technically govt. grew a great deal under Reagan, mainly due to Defense Spending and a Dem Congress. The good news was his other reforms started a huge economic expansion we are still under and has made the countries assets outpace its liabilities by a wide margin.

jp on October 9, 2007 at 1:09 PM

“Conservatism wins every time it is tried.” Rudy is not a true conservative; a GREAT leader, but not a social conservative. Everyone knows that. I know that conservative Christians are accused of being single issue voters. And yes, a vote for some third party candidate will be a vote for Hillary. Remember Ross Perot? Rudy is great on so many issues. But the Framers said it best… Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those three things are not in random order. Nor are they co-equal. Without the first one, the other two are moot. Dr. Dobson has given his life to the support of the family, beginning in the womb. He is not asking anyone to agree 100% with him. But these social issues are non-negotiable. They are his life. Refreshing to see a man of principle isn’t it? The consequences of a Hillary victory would be disastrous. BUT the long term consequences of compromising who we are so that we can beat the opponent are even more disastrous. We don’t need political expediency here. We need principles.

leavenedbread on October 9, 2007 at 1:11 PM

But Dobson isn’t saying we shouldn’t make a choice. He’s saying a third choice should be provided for those that don’t want a pro-abortion candidate.

Benaiah on October 9, 2007 at 11:18 AM

Then say welcome to another Clinton presidency, and more likely than not with a Democratic majority in both the House and Senate.

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 1:13 PM

The Republican party, which until recently had the Presidency, the Senate and the House has been helping America’s illegal employing businesses. That is one of the problems.

MB4 on October 9, 2007 at 12:55 PM

and the Republican party also tried to reform Social Security, while holding all 3 branches, and the public would not hear of it and the political process made it Dead on arrival. Its not politicaly possible to reform these type of programs unless they get Filibuster proof majorities and more control of media/dialog. The Dems simply will not cede an ‘issue’ of theirs, now a Dem President may be able to reform these programs but in different ways generally, the thought of them holding all 3 branches is frightining……….anyway, because of our demographic problems and not being able to reform things like SS, we are forced to look for workers to fill the gap.

jp on October 9, 2007 at 1:14 PM

Kennedy was much more conservative than Rudy. It’s not a Catholic thing. I’d have voted for Kennedy long before Rudy regardless of the R or D.

Plus, I think John Roberts (Catholic) for SC was the best appointment in my lifetime.

ThackerAgency on October 9, 2007 at 12:26 PM

And that’s because the Dem Party has gone so far to the Left it’s really just a Socialist organization now.

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 1:15 PM

we do not legislate silly social issues, or we never did until the Moral Majority and the Religious Right rear their heads and got into the mix.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 12:59 PM

It’s a good thing the Republicans stayed out of that abolition deal. And that whole civil rights thing, what’s that got to do with Republicans?
The rest of your posts are also ludicrous. The GOP wins nothing without the conservatives. I suspect you know that, so why the nonsense?

thebriand on October 9, 2007 at 1:22 PM

And that’s because the Dem Party has gone so far to the Left it’s really just a Socialist organization now.

Exactly, that is why mainstream America will vote Republican!!

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 1:22 PM

Then say welcome to another Clinton presidency, and more likely than not with a Democratic majority in both the House and Senate.

eanax

Then maybe you should switch your vote to the third candidate if you’re that worried about it.

The fact is the Republicans wouldn’t be having this issue if so many of them hadn’t ceased to be conservatives. So I refuse to take any blame when it blows up in their faces. Remember this is the same party that is run by people that have said they hate having to appease far right christians. Tell me why, as a christian, I should have any loyalty to that party?

Benaiah on October 9, 2007 at 1:24 PM

The pro-lifers, in their way, have become as tedious and annoying as the anti-war leftists; I have no doubt that Giuliani would appoint constitutionalist justices (a commitment we never got from GWB: “Justice” Myers anyone?) and that he would be committed in a way that GWB never was to exterminating the jihadist scum and confronting terror-supporting states and fifth columnists like CAIR. Putting two more Alitos on the court would effectively doom Roe v. Wade, which is what the pro-life movement says it wants, right? So what’s the problem? It’s almost as if Dobson were deliberately working to put HillBilly back into the White House. Cankles must be having a hearty laugh over this.

Travis Bickle on October 9, 2007 at 1:25 PM

For several years now, the California Republican Party has had a “values test” and their nominees have been consistantly single-issue pro-life candidates. Blithering idiot Barbara Boxer and blatantly corrupt Diane Feinstein are in no danger of ever being voted out of office.

Thank you very very very much.

Spiny Norman on October 9, 2007 at 12:39 AM

Yes that’s true. Let’s not forget to mention that pretty much all of California is gerrymandered. While the Republicans have a minority in the state legislature, those with butts in seats are in no danger of losing them. Therefore, the majority of both Rep and Dem lawmakers here have no need to listen to thier constituents.

A fair number on both sides simply listen to groups like MALDEF, la Raza and MEChA. It has gotten so blatant here that when reporting on them, the talk radio hosts here refer to such people not by as R or D, but as MS (for Mexican Socialist). Fact is while California is technically a constitutional republic (see the flag), the reality is that California operates more like a socialist one. Talking to most of the Republican reps here is kind of like talking to a brick wall (Brian Bilbray being one of the notable exceptions). The rest of the country compares to Cali like the Land of Oz compares to the Twilight Zone.

That being said, I’m not with either party. If anything I’m libertarian. However I know what Hillary would bring here. A completely socialist policy. Do you really want the rest of this country to become like California? Do you want more people like these to get in to office elsewhere?

Barbara “I’m a loon” Boxer (MS)
Diane “I’ll hate the military while my husband rips it off” Feinstein
Don “San Diegans are crackers” Perata
Fabian “let’s give illegals drivers licenses” Nunez (MS)
Antonio “It’s none of your business that I’m screwing around on my wife” Villaraigosa (mayor of LA, MS, deadbeat dad of the decade)

That’s what you’ll get folks. More like this. I’ve been here a long time – long enough to see this place going to hell in a handbasket. I could write pages on this, but I won’t. You don’t like Rudy? Fine. I don’t agree with all he stands for either. I personally want Fred. But if he doesn’t make it in the primary, I will at least be willing to read the writing on the wall. Knowing what I’ll get with each one of them. If Hillary’s elected, yes the Republic will survive. However by the time the party’s over, it may be in name only.

Suihei Deloi on October 9, 2007 at 1:28 PM

But the Framers said it best… Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those three things are not in random order. Nor are they co-equal. Without the first one, the other two are moot. Dr. Dobson has given his life to the support of the family, beginning in the womb.

leavenedbread on October 9, 2007 at 1:11 PM

Apparently you don’t know much about American history and the context in which the phrase “…Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” came about.

Do you believe and think that the Founding Fathers were talking about the unborn when they wrote the phrase “…Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” in the Declaration of Independence? Seriously?

The Founders were referring to the STATE or the KING (in their case) or QUEEN having the ability to take a life with a flick of the wrist — off with your head — without due process of law.

If you believe otherwise, then this is factually and historically incorrect and what appears to be a deliberate form of historical revisionism.

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 1:30 PM

Then maybe you should switch your vote to the third candidate if you’re that worried about it.

Benaiah on October 9, 2007 at 1:24 PM

Doing exactly that WILL get the Clintons back in office. If the party is not united, it will fail to win the next election because it won’t win over the Moderate and Independant voters. Pretty simple.

If you want a Hillary or another Dem in the White House, why don’t you just say so…

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 1:34 PM

The pro-lifers, in their way, have become as tedious and annoying as the anti-war leftists; I have no doubt that Giuliani would appoint constitutionalist justices (a commitment we never got from GWB: “Justice” Myers anyone?)…

Travis Bickle on October 9, 2007 at 1:25 PM

Actually, we did get that commitment from GWB when he ran. I trust Rudy even less.
It seems to be the conservative-bashers, with their hurling of insults and forgetting of history, that resemble the left in this thread.

thebriand on October 9, 2007 at 1:35 PM

It seems to be the conservative-bashers, with their hurling of insults and forgetting of history, that resemble the left in this thread.

thebriand on October 9, 2007 at 1:35 PM

Sorry, pal, but I deal in facts and reality.

Principles are important in Morality and Ethics, but to expect them to be in full effect, all of the time, in Politics is foolish and naive. Politics has always had an element of compromise within it…

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 1:43 PM

The pro-lifers, in their way, have become as tedious and annoying as the anti-war leftists; I have no doubt that Giuliani would appoint constitutionalist justices (a commitment we never got from GWB: “Justice” Myers anyone?) and that he would be committed in a way that GWB never was to exterminating the jihadist scum and confronting terror-supporting states and fifth columnists like CAIR. Putting two more Alitos on the court would effectively doom Roe v. Wade, which is what the pro-life movement says it wants, right? So what’s the problem? It’s almost as if Dobson were deliberately working to put HillBilly back into the White House. Cankles must be having a hearty laugh over this.

Travis Bickle on October 9, 2007 at 1:25 PM

Thank you. Dobson is not the person to listen to. Again, any Fringe on either side is usually disasterous to both parties.

America doesn’t go for the Wingnut – Moonbat model, in fact they hate it.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 1:47 PM

Politics has always had an element of compromise within it…

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 1:43 PM

I’m with that, to a point. The lives of unborn children are not bargaining chips. I’m not willing to trade them for a border fence.

thebriand on October 9, 2007 at 1:49 PM

It seems to be the conservative-bashers, with their hurling of insults and forgetting of history, that resemble the left in this thread.

thebriand on October 9, 2007 at 1:35 PM

I notice the unthinking equation of pro-life and conservative. The single-issue pro-life activists are in danger of becoming the Code Pink of the conservative movement. For the record, I cast my first vote for Reagan and I think both Roe and Griswold should be tossed (pretty much the same as Bork’s view). Conservativism is not about dimestic single-issue zealotry, especially post-9/11.

Travis Bickle on October 9, 2007 at 1:59 PM

they reformed it, thanks to a pragmatic Dem president and newt, long after Reagan. But they did not get rid of it, its here to stay.

I’m sorry if I was unclear, jp, let me try again:

the GOP managed to pressure Clinton into signing significant welfare reforms. Government CAN be reduced, when we have the political will to fight for it. The problem is that the GOP is weak. I can’t get excited about fighting for a party that won’t fight for me, and I think a lot of others feel the same way.

Laura on October 9, 2007 at 12:12 PM

I didn’t say that Reagan was responsible for the welfare reforms, I said the GOP was. And I didn’t say that the GOP got rid of welfare. I said that by working together and fighting for conservative principles, the GOP forced a reduction in government that otherwise would not have occurred. Since that worked once, I’m angry and perplexed why they stopped doing it. My point is that if it is politically possible to reduce government programs, it should also be politically possible to eliminate them. It just hasn’t been tried yet.

unless they get Filibuster proof majorities and more control of media/dialog.

They haven’t earned filibuster proof majorities. If they would get out there and fight for the core values of the GOP instead of being so quick to cede ground, people would join them. That is, after all, the function of leadership – to LEAD. But they don’t do it.

For example, when you look at key media losses for the GOP, it’s because we gave up. We gave up on the WMD in Iraq, and stopped mentioning things like those trucks Saddam sent to Syria, Saddam’s nuclear plans that made a brief appearance in the NYT (remember, they were chastising the Bush administration for publishing information about it because it was supposedly detailed enough to help the Norks or Iran along in their plans – the Bush bashing angle was why it got published at all), and the fact that at least some WMD were found. We gave up even long before that, when we stopped mentioning the fact that the resolution that got us into Iraq had a lot of other things on that list besides WMD.

Our leadership just gave up on a major issue. That’s just one example of many, and it made a difference in 2006. They did the same wrt Katrina. We gave up on Plame, and on Berger. We never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And until we actually get in there and start fighting, we’re going to continue to lose. And we deserve to.

Laura on October 9, 2007 at 2:05 PM

Wow… I can’t believe I read the whole thing… must be bored…

Two points.

I am not Christian… or part of any main stream religion, but I do think it goes to character. If you believe that abortion is killing a person, then you cannot stand by and do nothing. If you say you belong to a Religion (Catholicism) in which abortion is a sin, you cannot say you will not even attempt to oppose it…

You CANNOT have it both ways without proclaiming youself a hypocrite… and I do not want a hyporcrite in the Oval Office.

I would have no problem voting for a Pro Choise candidate IF they were not trying to have it both ways.

Second point. Rudi’s past actions do NOT match up well with either the Ideaology, or platform, of the Republican party.

He worked against the line item veto (anti big govenment?).
He used courts to try to go after legaly manufactured guns.
He ran a sanctuary city, and said he welcomed illegals.

There are many of us Unaffiliated Conservatives who would vote for a Republican candidate… if he actualy was following the Republican party platform, and following Republican values…

The question becomes, when the Republicans are no longer conservative, do they continue to get our votes just because the other guy is worse? OR do we try to do somthing which hasn’t been done in awhile, and try to make another organization which IS actualy conservative.

Right now about 1/3 of the voters proclaim themselves as unaffiliated… why do the 1/3 Repubs, and 1/3 dems, therefore get all the representation?

Romeo13 on October 9, 2007 at 2:06 PM

csdeven on October 9, 2007 at 8:11 AM

I am proud of my support for Paul. It just baffles me that those who claim to be conservative relentlessly bash Paul with a Bush Derangement Syndrome-like fervor. If you call Pual ignorant, stupid, and insane, then by sure implication, you are calling anyone who supports him the same. Spin like that belongs on the Daily Kos. Paul’s ideas are the ideas that founded and allowed this country to flourish. It is the moving away from these ideas that is destroying this country from within (uncontrolled spending, out of control welfare, government intervention in EVERYTHING, horrendous compulsary government education, etc.).

King of the Britons on October 9, 2007 at 2:08 PM

For the record, I cast my first vote for Reagan and I think both Roe and Griswold should be tossed (pretty much the same as Bork’s view). Conservativism is not about dimestic single-issue zealotry, especially post-9/11.

Travis Bickle on October 9, 2007 at 1:59 PM

For the record, I haven’t said I won’t vote for Rudy. I haven’t had to decide yet.
My point was that you were wrong, and being an ass about it. I stand by my point.

thebriand on October 9, 2007 at 2:09 PM

the post-Newt years of Republican control (1998-2006) descended into a gaudy carnival of wasteful spending and corruption.

This idea that the GOP has engaged in “carnival of wasteful spending” is repeated a lot, but has little basis in fact. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP in 2006 was lower than in any year in the period 1980-1996. It increased a point or two in 2001/02, which is almost entirely accounted for by the cost of fighting back in the terrorists War on Us.

Federal spending as percentage of GDP:

1980: 21.67%
1981: 22.09%
1982: 23.63%
1983: 23.80%
1984: 23.15%
1985:23.52%
23.57%
23.02%
22.20%
22.00%
22.43%
22.64%
23.37%
22.92%
22.02%
21.91%
21.61%
20.73%
20.02%
19.62%
19.28%
19.77%
20.53%
21.14%
20.97%
21.23%
21.12%

Corruption isn’t as easy to quantify, and if you expect better under the Clinton crime-family, you’re in for an unpleasant surprise.

LagunaDave on October 9, 2007 at 2:44 PM

the post-Newt years of Republican control (1998-2006) descended into a gaudy carnival of wasteful spending and corruption.

This idea that the GOP has engaged in “carnival of wasteful spending” is repeated a lot, but has little basis in fact. Federal spending as a percentage of GDP in 2006 was lower than in any year in the period 1980-1996. It increased a point or two in 2001/02, which is almost entirely accounted for by the cost of fighting back in the terrorists War on Us.

Federal spending as percentage of GDP:

1980: 21.67%
1981: 22.09%
1982: 23.63%
1983: 23.80%
1984: 23.15%
1985: 23.52%
1986: 23.57%
1987: 23.02%
1988: 22.20%
1989: 22.00%
1990: 22.43%
1991: 22.64%
1992: 23.37%
1993: 22.92%
1994: 22.02%
1995: 21.91%
1996: 21.61%
1997: 20.73%
1998: 20.02%
1999: 19.62%
2000: 19.28%
2001: 19.77%
2002: 20.53%
2003: 21.14%
2004: 20.97%
2005: 21.23%
2006: 21.12%

(Source: Bureau of Economic Analysis Tables, see here for a nice chart and table, which I updated with the corresponding data for 2005/06.)

Corruption isn’t as easy to quantify, but if you expect better under the Clinton crime-family, you’re in for an unpleasant surprise.

LagunaDave on October 9, 2007 at 2:48 PM

Sorry for the double post (browser glitch). Delete the first, incomplete post if possible…

LagunaDave on October 9, 2007 at 2:49 PM

Romeo13 on October 9, 2007 at 2:06 PM

Home run.

MB4 on October 9, 2007 at 2:55 PM

You CANNOT have it both ways without proclaiming youself a hypocrite… and I do not want a hyporcrite in the Oval Office.

Your argument is analogous to: If you believe it is a sin for unmarried people to cohabitate and have sex, or for anyone, married or unmarried, to use birth control, and you belong to Catholic Church (which teaches the same), you cannot be in favor of allowing other people to legally do so without being a hypocrite, and that makes you unqualified to serve as president.

Which I think any reasonable person would agree is utter nonsense.

Accepting that there are limits on what the government can do to legislate peoples’ personal lives is a core tenet of conservatism. The idea that any practice contrary to teachings of a particular religion must be fanatically opposed, and that anyone who fails to do so is some kind of apostate has a name – Sharia.

I happen to believe that abortion is wrong, and that Roe v. Wade is based on bogus legal logic. But I am supporting Rudy, because he is a proven leader, a fiscal conservative, will not cut the terrorists any slack and (to the very slight extent that a president’s personal philosophy can affect social issues) will appoint strict constructionist justices like his friends Scalia and Alito.

LagunaDave on October 9, 2007 at 3:21 PM

This is my take on this issue as a conservative Christian: I don’t think one man should be speaking for all Christians. I don’t believe that Dr. Dobson has the right to tell anyone how to vote. Now I know he isn’t actually telling anyone how to vote, but by the fact that his words have so much influence, he needs to be very careful what he says.

Shelly on October 9, 2007 at 3:32 PM

I am proud of my support for Paul. It just baffles me that those who claim to be conservative relentlessly bash Paul with a Bush Derangement Syndrome-like fervor. If you call Pual ignorant, stupid, and insane, then by sure implication, you are calling anyone who supports him the same. Spin like that belongs on the Daily Kos. Paul’s ideas are the ideas that founded and allowed this country to flourish. It is the moving away from these ideas that is destroying this country from within (uncontrolled spending, out of control welfare, government intervention in EVERYTHING, horrendous compulsary government education, etc.).

King of the Britons on October 9, 2007 at 2:08 PM

And you believe Ron Paul is the answer to all of this?

ROTFLOL!!!

While he may believe in many of the principles the Founders espoused, that doesn’t mean he would be able to magically make those principles return. This country has been moving away slowly from the Founders’ ideals for over a hundred years.

Returning to such would take gigantic changes in attitudes and beliefs…

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 3:49 PM

I seem to remember you claiming that voting for someone who supports abortion is akin to murder. Exceptions are now being made?

Nonfactor on October 9, 2007 at 6:42 AM

So today, instead of lying and quoting me out of context you’re just going to “seem to remember”? Wow. That said, it is murder. It’s not “akin” to it, it simply IS murder. Now, as stated REPEATEDLY sot that even morons like you can get it, if my choices are someone who reluctantly may allow some types of abortions, and someone who would seemingly be okay with weekly abortion parties, I’ve got to choose the lesser of 2 evils. Rudy has promised to nominate judges like Alito and Thomas. Is he telling the truth? Who knows, but you know damn well Hillary isn’t going to nominate judges like them…

Bottom line, a vote for a third party or staying at home is a partial vote for Hillary, who would be far worse for this country than any of the Republicans. I’m sorry I can’t be a one issue person for you. But then, you knew that, didn’t you? You just came here to be the POS troll you always are. Guess you didn’t get enough yesterday when I fully destroyed you for not only taking things out of context, but for flat out lying. Again, just STFU Nonfactor. You really need to stop commenting to me, because you just waste everyone’s time.

RightWinged on October 9, 2007 at 3:59 PM

And I didn’t say that the GOP got rid of welfare. I said that by working together and fighting for conservative principles, the GOP forced a reduction in government that otherwise would not have occurred.

true, but the key there was a Dem. President. Clinton took responsibility for it, thus keeping the issue for them, the Dems. A Repub. Whitehouse, Senate and House at same time can’t get Social Security Reformed do to the political lefts influence in this country, because they want to keep the issue a “democrat” domestic issue in their corner.

re: Spending in the 1990’s, under Newt with Clinton in whitehouse….non-defense spending was much higher than it is now. They cut Defense spending, alot, in the 1990’s and put us in the bind we are in today. What they did to the military is a big part of our problems in Iraq militarily.

jp on October 9, 2007 at 4:03 PM

While he may believe in many of the principles the Founders espoused, that doesn’t mean he would be able to magically make those principles return. This country has been moving away slowly from the Founders’ ideals for over a hundred years.

Returning to such would take gigantic changes in attitudes and beliefs…

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 3:49 PM

the problem with “Constitutionalism” and the Paulinians, is that what they think is constitutional and what is not, is not necessarily so. Especially in Paul’s extreme case. All you have to do is look at what the founders actually did in office and how they conceived the constitution to see just how drastically it differs from Paul’s talking points.

jp on October 9, 2007 at 4:06 PM

It’s a good thing the Republicans stayed out of that abolition deal. And that whole civil rights thing, what’s that got to do with Republicans?
The rest of your posts are also ludicrous. The GOP wins nothing without the conservatives. I suspect you know that, so why the nonsense?

The whole Civil Rights thing? That was Johnson and the Klan faction of the Democratic party jumped ship and joined the GOP…what’s your point?

I think it is ridiculous to bow down to single issue Wingnuts who are in danger of becoming the Code Pink of the conservative movement. Travis Bickle is correct and a right-on analogy at that.

The bulk of the country is already horrified by the face of the Democratic Party and how Far Left they have moved. I shutter to think of the GOP doing the same, moving so Far Right that the general population wants no part of it.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 4:38 PM

“If Hillary becomes President it will be because the Republican party has failed the American people, not because Dobbs has ‘Made Hillary President’”.

MB4 is exactly right. We find ourselves in this position of weakness, without leadership because of the failings of the Republican Party. If our elected representatives and president had grown some balls and loudly and proudly expounded the conservative view and resolutely responded to the liberal lies and invective, we would have stood with them and gave of our energy, our time and our wealth to see to it that they prevailed in every election. Republicans should have gotten the message in the last mid-term election; instead they buy the liberal spin that this was all about opposition to the war. Good grief! They’d better start paying attention to the base.

drewas on October 9, 2007 at 5:31 PM

Religion at it’s best. God I hate religion. Religion is nothing more that mans idea on how to serve God. Why is it that only those who choose to go that way are recognized and given a voice? Never mind, I really do not need to have that explained. Gee whiz, why do not people look in the Bible to see how God says to worship Him? Is that to hard? better to let people like this to speak out and to criticize than to do a little research on our own. I myself cast this opinion aside. Hopefully most other Christians will do the same.

mjkazee on October 9, 2007 at 5:32 PM

Religion at it’s best. God I hate religion. Religion is nothing more that mans idea on how to serve God. Why is it that only those who choose to go that way are recognized and given a voice?

That seems to be the Million Dollar question on The Right.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 6:11 PM

And you believe Ron Paul is the answer to all of this?

ROTFLOL!!!

While he may believe in many of the principles the Founders espoused, that doesn’t mean he would be able to magically make those principles return. This country has been moving away slowly from the Founders’ ideals for over a hundred years.

Returning to such would take gigantic changes in attitudes and beliefs…
eanax on October 9, 2007 at 3:49 PM

So you believe that Paul does espouse the ideals and philosophy of the Founders but, even so, there is no way he could get there from here . . .so you will vote for a big government, establishment, Republican Politician. Makes sense.

King of the Britons on October 9, 2007 at 7:10 PM

And you believe Ron Paul is the answer to all of this?

ROTFLOL!!!

While he may believe in many of the principles the Founders espoused, that doesn’t mean he would be able to magically make those principles return. This country has been moving away slowly from the Founders’ ideals for over a hundred years.

Returning to such would take gigantic changes in attitudes and beliefs…
eanax on October 9, 2007 at 3:49 PM

So you believe that Paul does espouse the ideals and philosophy of the Founders but, even so, there is no way he could get there from here . . .so you will vote for a big government, establishment, Republican Politician. Makes sense.

King of the Britons on October 9, 2007 at 7:10 PM

Your argument is analogous to: If you believe it is a sin for unmarried people to cohabitate and have sex, or for anyone, married or unmarried, to use birth control, and you belong to Catholic Church (which teaches the same), you cannot be in favor of allowing other people to legally do so without being a hypocrite, and that makes you unqualified to serve as president.

Which I think any reasonable person would agree is utter nonsense.

LagunaDave on October 9, 2007 at 3:21 PM

No, what I am saying is that if you believe somthing, how can you NOT take a stand against somthing you see as wrong, WHEN GIVEN THE OPTION!!!

Rudi says that abortion is wrong, but won’t overturn Roe v. Wade even if given the opportunity…

He potrays himself as a strict Constitutional Constructionist, and yet won’t condemn somthing which is NOT good Constitutional Law…

I need to know that my President’s acts are consistant with his stated beliefs, because when the Feces hits the Rotating Air Flow Device, its those BELIEFS they will act on.

Under stress, when we have to make a snap decision with limited data (oh… like an immediate response to an act of war against this country) its those BELIEFS which will dictate his actions…

Problem is that when past acts do not match rhetoric, I have no true way to judge his character, or moral strength.

Romeo13 on October 9, 2007 at 7:19 PM

While he may believe in many of the principles the Founders espoused, that doesn’t mean he would be able to magically make those principles return. This country has been moving away slowly from the Founders’ ideals for over a hundred years.

Returning to such would take gigantic changes in attitudes and beliefs…
eanax on October 9, 2007 at 3:49 PM

So you believe that Paul does espouse the ideals and philosophy of the Founders but, even so, there is no way he could get there from here . . .so you will vote for a big government, establishment, Republican Politician. Makes sense.

King of the Britons on October 9, 2007 at 7:10 PM

You didn’t read what I wrote thoroughly. I said: “…he (Ron Paul) may believe in many of the principles the Founders espoused, that doesn’t mean he would be able to magically make those principles return.”

Ron Paul alone will not turn the ship U.S.S. America around. Like I mentioned, gigantic changes in attitudes and beliefs are in order to return to the Founders’ principles. Got any odds on how long that would take, and what that would take?

Do you think we can somehow pull up to the drive-thru window and order a Founders’ combo meal with a small order of government and a large order of Liberty?

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 7:25 PM

I can’t think of an election in which I’ve done anything other than vote for the least-bad candidate. A candidate one could actually feel good about would be “extraordinary and without example.” Moreover, such talent would be wasted on public office.

Kralizec on October 8, 2007 at 11:38 PM

I too feel that most of my votes have gone to the “lessor of two evils” but not all do. The first two times I was able to vote for a president I voted for Reagan. The best president we’ve had in my lifetime IMHO. I also happen to be very fond of Representative John Mica who I’ve had the chance to vote for a couple of times. Dr Dobson should look at history and relize that his kind of thinking gave us the Ross Perot campaign and a Clinton presidency. I like Mike! Huckabee in 08! (you know, the guy with the funny name.)

conservativecaveman on October 9, 2007 at 7:45 PM

Basically, if you’re a social conservative, shut up, vote how you’re told, get used to publicly funded abortion clinics, and don’t expect to ever have your values defended publicly. Ever. That’s pretty much the Giuliani line, and the line of most of the Johnny-come-latelies that make up the “mugged by 9-11″ Giuliani camp, especially here.

Good way to build a coalition, guys. And you say the SoCons are intransigent a-holes.

spmat on October 9, 2007 at 8:40 PM

Basically, if you’re a social conservative, shut up, vote how you’re told, and get used to publicly funded abortion clinics. That’s pretty much the Dobson line.

Fixed that for you.

MikeZero on October 9, 2007 at 9:57 PM

If you want a Hillary or another Dem in the White House, why don’t you just say so…

eanax

I hate the idea of it but why should social conservatives be the ones that have to vote for a candidate that doesn’t represent us? You can always switch your vote to our candidate. If you are unwilling to do so then don’t expect me to do so either.

Benaiah on October 9, 2007 at 10:01 PM

Fixed that for you.

MikeZero on October 9, 2007 at 9:57 PM

Dobson’s running for President?

spmat on October 9, 2007 at 10:56 PM

1. We could do with less name-calling on our side among fellow Republicans, just as we could do with fewer third-party warnings of the kind that Dr. Dobson has been floating.

When pols like Hillary ‘float’ a position they are testing the waters to see if it will fly in the polls. I do not think Dobson is ‘floating’ threats to see if he can shake the GOP with a threat of a suicidal tantrum. He is positing that there is a limit to what he will support. He is stating this because the GOP has become a top-down organization. The top is no longer responding to the bottom, it is attempting to control the bottom. That works better with amoral drones than men of conscience.

2. The most solidly and uncompromisingly conservative candidates probably have the least chance of winning. That’s probably due to their particular backgrounds and biographies, but it also may tell us something about where the party may be heading.

It does not tell us where the party may be heading, it tells us where the party is, controlled from the top, and preventing the most solidly conservative candidates from having a voice. It is at the same suicidal position as in the Rockefeller days when Reagan appeared as the white knight to give a voice to conservatism and route the country-clubbers.

I guess after the fiasco of a successful conservative President (Reagan, not Bush) the country clubbers vowed never again to let the hateful voice of conservatism be heard connected to the GOP. They have attempted to redefine the Conservative Christians as destroyers of conservatism should they not accept the leaders chosen by the top

A useful scapegoat is the next best thing to a useful idiot

3. And the rest of the GOP will end up blaming him and social conservatives for her ascension to power.

Not the rest of the GOP. The part of the GOP base that accepts the mantra from the top.

I listened to part of the Hannity coverage of the debate. A female caller told Hannity that Dr. Dobson’s words came dangerously close to interfering with the separation of Church and State! She had definitely taken the bait, to think that separation of Church and State meant that a religious leader could not make political declartions.

That would have eliminated man of faith Patrick Henry from declaring “Give me Liberty or give me Death’

An I do believe that the GOP would happily take down any modern day Patrick Henry who interfered with the program – a program that stands against Reagan conservatism

entagor on October 10, 2007 at 2:58 AM

King of the Britons on October 9, 2007 at 2:08 PM

I think Paul supporters are well intentioned but never the less, misguided. All his theories sound good and look good on paper, but most will never work in real life. You are overly idealistic. You cannot be an isolationist in todays world. The framers of the constitution could not have envisioned the global community we live in today, so constantly referring to it in every case is wrong.

One issue that I have with him is his insistence that we are at fault for most of the problems in the world today. He blames us for Iran and 9/11. This is absolutely ignorant.

The war on terror is another issue. The Jihadists have had their eyes on world domination for centuries and the idea that we are responsible is willful ignorance of the truth.

The man that believes that is not fit to be the most powerful person in the world.

csdeven on October 10, 2007 at 8:11 AM

Apparently you don’t know much about American history and the context in which the phrase “…Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” came about.

Do you believe and think that the Founding Fathers were talking about the unborn when they wrote the phrase “…Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” in the Declaration of Independence? Seriously?

The Founders were referring to the STATE or the KING (in their case) or QUEEN having the ability to take a life with a flick of the wrist — off with your head — without due process of law.

If you believe otherwise, then this is factually and historically incorrect and what appears to be a deliberate form of historical revisionism.

eanax on October 9, 2007 at 1:30 PM

According to your logic, President Lincoln was way out of line when he said, Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. The line, “all men are created equal” could not possibly be used to support the cessation of slavery because that is not what the Framers had in mind (most of them were slave owners). Are you suggesting that there can be no real application to the principles of the Constitution outside of what the Framers had in mind in the 18th Century. Seriously?

leavenedbread on October 10, 2007 at 4:36 PM

I am sad to say you people are scaring me just a little. Some of you sound like the left over on Huffington. Be very careful what you say.

Shelly on October 10, 2007 at 5:13 PM

Some Republicans at the general election “oh you have to vote for the liberal Republican otherwise the much worse
Democrat will get elected. The time to get the conservative is the primaries.”

So now we are in the primaries and we don’t like the liberal Republican, but other Republicans are already defeatists, wanting to settle for Guiliani. “He’s our only hope.” They think that by going left, we will be able to win. Wrong! Bush and the Reps went left during 2004-2006, signing every spending bill possible and trying to nominate Harriet Meirs and pass amnesty. Reps got slaughtered.

chris00nj on October 10, 2007 at 6:26 PM

Are you suggesting that there can be no real application to the principles of the Constitution outside of what the Framers had in mind in the 18th Century.

Seriously?

leavenedbread on October 10, 2007 at 4:36 PM

Yes, seriously, because you cannot apply YOUR personal beliefs onto what historical figures were doing and discussing in their time.

I’m stating the facts within the context of Revolutionary-era American history, and you’re attempting to apply your 21st Century personal beliefs about a topic which the Founding Fathers did not have on their minds when they were writing the Declaration of Independence.

It seems that you’ve conveniently ignored the historical facts and context to further your agenda. That qualifies as revisionist history.

According to your logic, President Lincoln was way out of line when he said, Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. The line, “all men are created equal” could not possibly be used to support the cessation of slavery because that is not what the Framers had in mind (most of them were slave owners).

leavenedbread on October 10, 2007 at 4:36 PM

Red herring.

eanax on October 10, 2007 at 6:33 PM

Much ado about nothing! Rudy will not be the nominee! Social con votes are divided several ways, but social lib Republicans are united on Rudy. When weaker social cons start bailing out of the race, their supporters will gravitate towards the strongest social con.

jgapinoy on October 11, 2007 at 12:51 AM

Yes, seriously, because you cannot apply YOUR personal beliefs onto what historical figures were doing and discussing in their time.

I guess President Lincoln missed that lecture.

leavenedbread on October 11, 2007 at 12:58 AM

The way I look at it is this way: if the Religious Right wants to take such a gamble let them. And if they end up discovering the the entire culture of the South and the Heartland is radically changed to look like New York and California and secularism radically replaces their traditions….THEY WILL HAVE BROUGHT IT ON THEMSELVES

GogglesPisano on October 9, 2007 at 11:40 AM

So the Religious Right is still controlling the GOP? Could have fooled me. They will be responsible for destroying the culture of the Bible belt if they insist upon voting their consciences? Obstinate these Christians. They refused to renounce beliefs even when the Romans burned them alive. They brought it on themselves.

Principles!! This man is either a fool or on the Clinton payroll. No one could be that short-sided and stupid to see what the out come would be for our country if Cankles is elected. I used to respect Dr. Dobson. That has gone out the window with his ego.

Winebabe on October 9, 2007 at 11:42 AM

If he is a fool he is no threat unless you believe his audience is also a pack of fools in which case how do you control them?

That is what you want to do isn’t it: control their votes? You are certainly not trying to gain their votes or you would not call them fools.

Dobson clearly shows his true colors. If he doesn’t get his way he simply picks up all his toys and leaves the sandbox. He should support a third candidate in the Constitution Party where he is better served and better suited for.

The GOP can garner votes from mainstream America easily, the Independents, the Libertarians and the Conservative Dems can and will vote Republican, we do not need the idealogues.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 11:49 AM

We do not need ideologues? In a political party?

Mainstream America will never vote for a woman, I just don’t think America is ready for that quite yet.

AprilOrit on October 9, 2007 at 12:02 PM

An ideologue would vote for a woman. Find a lover of Ronald Reagan (a great ideologue) who would not have voted for an American version of Margaret Thatcher (another beloved ideologue)

Dobson needs to stay out of politics, granted, but there’s no point in blaming him for what the Republicans have already made a demographic fait accompli. The only chance they have is to capture the white vote. Once that’s demographically marginalized, there’s not much hope for them.

PRCalDude on October 9, 2007 at 11:48 AM

Not granted

Dobson is not in politics, neither running for office nor running any party. He is in free speech which he needs to be allowed to practice. No one has to listen. No one will listen unless they like his arguments

This thread is very bad news to me. It says that the sledge hammer is out even before the primaries. Obedience is required or we are traitors. If the GOP chosen one is not elected it is the fault of the Christians. The Christians have ruined America. Yada yada yada.

entagor on October 11, 2007 at 2:40 AM

This seems pretty simple to me. It’s a matter of priorities. Ok, so you don’t like Rudy. Would you prefer Hillary in office? No? Well, then, you know who to vote for.

Yes, it would be nice to show the Republicans how disappointed we are in them by refusing to vote for a Republican candidate, but we’ve kinda got a war going on and I’d hate to see that derailed by a socialist weakling like Hillary. This isn’t the right time.

R. Waher on October 11, 2007 at 9:13 PM

Nothing could so *strengthen* the religious right within the party than to stand in unity to elect Guiliani.

Anil Petra on October 11, 2007 at 9:38 PM

Here’s a good question for Dr. Dobson:

Aren’t the efforts by the pro-life movement designed to change the hearts of those who are pro-choice?

Mitt is the perfect example for the success of those efforts.

Since Mitt has had a change of heart because of the efforts of people like Dobson, does Dobson support Mitt as the only candidate that is pro-life?

csdeven on October 8, 2007 at 11:35 PM

Mitt explained on one of his many 100’s, or 1000’s of videos on his website that he in the past was just doing what his Mom did when running (pro-choice) for election somewhere.

But since then he and his family have slowly changed their views and Ann Romney explains it so well in an interview with Neil Cavuto from the FNC, that it came down to the embryonic stem cell research debate. And even though it was hard for her, beings she has MS, she believed it was the right thing to do.

Mcguyver on October 12, 2007 at 12:27 AM

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