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Quote of the day

posted at 10:34 pm on October 6, 2007 by Allahpundit
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“Having grown up with successful women such as Margaret Thatcher and Madonna as role models, and with popular culture awash with fantasies of all-powerful women, from Lara Croft to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, men are not so uncomfortable with the woman in control. This value system recognises the trend of female supremacy, which while not as yet the norm seems to be pointing the way for future relationships.”


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Yes, those role models make you supreme.

hinduconservative on October 6, 2007 at 10:38 PM

Game over?

Not for me man, not for me. I do all the cooking, cleaning, and laundry in my house and I still wear the pants.

csdeven on October 6, 2007 at 10:38 PM

The hot babes still go Alpha all the way.
Show me a Conservative woman who wants a Beta and I’ll show you a closet Lib.

bbz123 on October 6, 2007 at 10:44 PM

Although they do dig it when I sew a button back on for them.

bbz123 on October 6, 2007 at 10:45 PM

The hot babes still go Alpha all the way.

Yup. There’s no fighting biology.

Allahpundit on October 6, 2007 at 10:45 PM

Heh. I could get used to being the “trophy” husband. Yep. I’ll stay home, watch TV, peruse Hot Air ad get a hobby to fill all of those leisure hours. She can bring me some presents for working too late.

Guardian on October 6, 2007 at 10:46 PM

THREAT TO MASCULINITY…DANGER WILL ROBINSON! THEY MUST BE DESTROYED!

GoodBoy on October 6, 2007 at 10:48 PM

Yep, game over. In other news, pigs are flying, because gravity has reversed. And Ted Kennedy has become a Republican. And Jesse Jackson has admitted he’s a con artist.

Gimme a break.

Splashman on October 6, 2007 at 10:50 PM

Is having Margaret Thatcher and Madonna as role models not the beginning of confusion?
You combine them and you get a ruler of a country in a leather bra and panties. That sounds too much like a German opera.

Tennessee Dave on October 6, 2007 at 10:51 PM

oh geez Where is JOHN WAYNE!?!?!??!

Your country needs you.

CrimsonFisted on October 6, 2007 at 10:54 PM

OPEN THREAD FOR ALLAH.

I’m not saying that that plague of mini-locusts that descended in the eighth inning made me believe in God. But I’m not saying that it didn’t, either. Click the image to rejoice.

The game on ESPN just reported that the receiver from Stanford, who was a 40 point underdog to USC tonight, that caught the winning pass had a parent die the night before. The team wasn’t even sure he could play tonight.

BadgerHawk on October 6, 2007 at 10:54 PM

That’s right, get used to your vampire-slaying, tomb-raiding, NOT REALLY REAL strong women.

Wow. Could that get any dumber?

Hey. You want a strong women role model?

Present.

Meryl Yourish on October 6, 2007 at 10:55 PM

Sigh.

WomAn.

Add Michelle to make it plural.

Meryl Yourish on October 6, 2007 at 10:55 PM

The woman is dreaming or lying. No woman wants a beta male, even if it can be reasonably demonstrated that he’s the better choice. I once managed to corner a female relative who always claimed to want certain qualities in a man, but married a man who was the exact opposite–four times! After some squirming she admitted to me that she only said that to “screen out the guys stupid enough to do it.”

dostrick on October 6, 2007 at 10:55 PM

No woman wants a beta male, even if it can be reasonably demonstrated that he’s the better choice.

Yup.

Allahpundit on October 6, 2007 at 10:56 PM

Real women want alphas, loser lib chicks want betas.

conservnut on October 6, 2007 at 11:00 PM

Real women want alphas, loser lib chicks want betas.

Ball busting emasculating women love to have a beta to mess with, because the Alpha they really want told them to get lost.

bbz123 on October 6, 2007 at 11:03 PM

Lara Croft to Buffy the Vampire Slayer,

It’s not the strength of those characters that appeal to guys, it’s that they’re hot girls doing nerd stuff.

Alex K on October 6, 2007 at 11:05 PM

No woman wants a beta male, even if it can be reasonably demonstrated that he’s the better choice.

I disagree. Some women do want the beta male, and some men (usually liberals, in my acquaintance at least) love playing that role. Come on, we all know couples like this – many of them are perfectly content.

I don’t think much of it, myself. My husband doesn’t let me boss him around. Not that I don’t try on occasion – but ultimately, I’m glad he doesn’t put up with it.

Missy on October 6, 2007 at 11:08 PM

Well I do admire Iron Bottom Margret Thatcher,
Falklin war erupts,no discussion,no listening to
moonbats,send the ships.and she’s a class act handling the media.

canopfor on October 6, 2007 at 11:10 PM

Margaret Thatcher could kick Madonna’s ass.

infidel4life on October 6, 2007 at 11:12 PM

So why haven’t the beta males gone extinct?
Sorta’ like Sony’s Beta did?

CyberCipher on October 6, 2007 at 11:16 PM

CyberCipher on October 6, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Drunk chicks at closing time?

infidel4life on October 6, 2007 at 11:19 PM

…successful women such as Margaret Thatcher and Madonna…

An equation such as that, Margaret Thatcher and Madonna, destroys the rest of anything he/she might say.

petefrt on October 6, 2007 at 11:21 PM

Women do not respect weaker men. They know it, and men know it.

thedecider on October 6, 2007 at 11:23 PM

Come on, we all know couples like this – many of them are perfectly content.
Missy on October 6, 2007 at 11:08 PM

Until, that is, the dude finally comes out of the closet.

thedecider on October 6, 2007 at 11:25 PM

FTA: “I speak five languages. My date nearly choked on his linguini and spent the rest of the date mute. I had committed the worst dating faux pas: I had outshone my suitor.”

Yeah, but can you change a tire, kill a spider, chop wood with an axe or crush a beer can on your forehead?

LegendHasIt on October 6, 2007 at 11:28 PM

Not that I don’t try on occasion – but ultimately, I’m glad he doesn’t put up with it.

Missy on October 6, 2007 at 11:08 PM

I’m gonna kick your ass for being honest here….. No I won’t, but your husband should.

Mcguyver on October 6, 2007 at 11:30 PM

No woman wants a beta male, even if it can be reasonably demonstrated that he’s the better choice.

Yup.

Yeah, women go for guys like Jim Broussard, not ones who quibble over property complications, eh?

Free Constitution on October 6, 2007 at 11:34 PM

Women do not respect weaker men. They know it, and men know it.
thedecider on October 6, 2007 at 11:23 PM

………………………..NEWSFLASH!……………………
Kate Mulvey from the article was not talking about real men. She was talking about geldings, IN WHICH CASE SHE IS CORRECT.

Mcguyver on October 6, 2007 at 11:35 PM

Women who worry about having “had outshone” a guy are too insecure for my taste.

Writing about it also shows she has nothing better to do than obsess over trivia.

Why doesn’t she do something interesting and discover that it is through action, not reflection, that we attract those who are most intriguing.

(Showing off her supposed superior snazz at the dinner table may have not rendered the guy “mute” in some neanderthal form of stuptefaction, but simply turned him off… in 5 different languages.)

profitsbeard on October 6, 2007 at 11:42 PM

News flash…this site is run by an Alpha Female.

otcconan on October 6, 2007 at 11:47 PM

I had a friend who dated a lot when she was younger. She was high strung and opinionated. After one nasty breakup, she broke down and told me she wanted a man who wouldn’t take any crap off of her. Every “strong” woman I’ve ever met has been the same.

The happiest married women I know let their husbands be the head of the household but those husbands are the kind of guys who make sure their wives are a priority and doesn’t try to be an alpha male even though they are. A real alpha male doesn’t have to prove it.

GoodBoy on October 6, 2007 at 11:58 PM

Allah,

You need to demand that Michelle give you an iPhone or you are going to walk.

Be the alpha male.

:)

F15Mech on October 6, 2007 at 11:59 PM

A real alpha male doesn’t have to prove it, he just is.

GoodBoy on October 6, 2007 at 11:58 PM

Corrected for clarification.
;-)

infidel4life on October 7, 2007 at 12:07 AM

Does this have anything to do with Dr. Ron Paul?

daveintexas on October 7, 2007 at 12:18 AM

I married an alpha female Thank God I’m an Alpha Male,the whole cleave unto your husband thing works well for us,Read the whole context and you will understand,
Bob

Bobnormal on October 7, 2007 at 12:25 AM

Would the beta give her the spanking that she so obviously craves?
Eight-ball says
“doubtful”

bbz123 on October 7, 2007 at 12:26 AM

I was married to a beta man (well, more like a gamma man, truth be told) for over 20 years and it caused me no end of frustration. Marriage means we’re alpha in our spheres of influence, but having to be alpha all the livelong day?

Gets exhausting after a while.

Bob's Kid on October 7, 2007 at 12:27 AM

Men sleep better beside mate, women not so much, alpha, beta, or otherwise.

Entelechy on October 7, 2007 at 12:27 AM

KILL THE ALPHAS. BETA REVOLUTION.

Allahpundit on October 7, 2007 at 12:27 AM

KILL THE ALPHAS. BETA REVOLUTION.

You do see the inherent flaw in that concept, right?

bbz123 on October 7, 2007 at 12:31 AM

But that w/b against the law.

Entelechy on October 7, 2007 at 12:32 AM

Kate Mulvey might want to consider the possibility that instead of feeling threatened by her, men may just think she’s obnoxious. I mean, sure she’s accomplished, but talk about insecure. No man worthy of the term is going to feel threatened by her speaking 5 languages or 500, so maybe it’s something else that’s turning them off. Like her personality.

ReubenJCogburn on October 7, 2007 at 12:41 AM

We were reading this same crap back in the 60’s.

A successful man makes more money than his wife can spend.
A successful woman is one who finds such a man.

Mojave Mark on October 7, 2007 at 12:45 AM

Does this have anything to do with Hillary?

d1carter on October 7, 2007 at 12:46 AM

Mojave Mark, are you saying that women simplify life, double your joys and triple your expenses?

Entelechy on October 7, 2007 at 12:52 AM

The happiest married women I know let their husbands be the head of the household but those husbands are the kind of guys who make sure their wives are a priority and doesn’t try to be an alpha male even though they are. A real alpha male doesn’t have to prove it.

I came to the same conclusion a while ago looking at my parents marriage.

While the perception to anyone was that my dad was the alpha male…

When push came to shove when my mom disagreed strongly with my dad about something, all she had to do was tell him no and my dad would “cave”.

I have come to the conclusion that my dad was the alpha male , however my mom had some sort of “veto power” over my dads alpha male status.

When she threw that down (it did not happen often, I saw it maybe 4 times in 18 years) I came to the conclusion that my mom willingly takes a step back and delegates her authority to my dad. Since she knew my dad would make her/family a priority in the long run.

Regardless after 40+ years of marriage what ever they do, it works for them.

F15Mech on October 7, 2007 at 12:52 AM

Hillary’s a woman?
Well knock me over with a feather…..

bbz123 on October 7, 2007 at 12:52 AM

This woman is wrong on so many levels that I don’t even know where to start. Most men may want a strong, powerful woman, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into “highly educated and successful in the workplace.” I’m tired of arrogant, stupid, chip-on-the-shoulder feminists who have actually created a growing class of confused beta males. Because of their me-first attitudes, they’ve also created a new generation of brats who vote liberal.

An intelligent female who is graceful in her strength will attract a male who is equally intelligent and protectively strong.

It is the woman who wrote this piece who is an insecure beta female. It was her manner that drove her date off, not the fact that she could five languages. I know the type well.

Connie on October 7, 2007 at 12:56 AM

not the fact that she could speak five languages.

Connie on October 7, 2007 at 12:57 AM

Entelechy on October 7, 2007 at 12:52 AM

Just repeating a funny joke. The woman in the article sounds more like a gay man than a woman.

I’m 48 and I’ve never seen a happy home led by a woman. I’ve seen plenty of happy homes led by a men.

Mojave Mark on October 7, 2007 at 1:14 AM

If she were an alpha female, she’d have the men she wants, wouldn’t she, pretty much by definition?

And launching into a conversation with a bystander in a language your date doesn’t speak is terribly rude. If the guy had done that with some nearby woman, I’m sure we’d be treated to an article about the ill-mannered arrogance of men these days.

Then there’s the extraneous ‘I speak five languages,’ and the carefully-exposed spaghetti straps in the pic, and that’s before you get past the first paragraph. No, this woman isn’t insecure….

kate q on October 7, 2007 at 1:20 AM

Mojave Mark on October 7, 2007 at 1:14 AM

The reason the homes are happier is because what is the natural relationship of male to female is allowed to occur.

Connie on October 7, 2007 at 1:26 AM

My date nearly choked on his linguini and spent the rest of the date mute.

A few years ago my Swiss banker found my conversation too arty and cast his attentions on a lovely Spanish girl who worked in his office.

Well I would rather skewer my eyes out than change my personality.

This value system recognises the trend of female supremacy, which while not as yet the norm seems to be pointing the way for future relationships.

Ms. Mulvey needs a cat.

pedestrian on October 7, 2007 at 1:28 AM

KILL THE ALPHAS. BETA REVOLUTION.

Allahpundit on October 7, 2007 at 12:27 AM

Heh! Leaving the Omega’s to fend for scraps as usual!

Connie on October 7, 2007 at 1:26 AM

Somewhere along the way, feminism flipped gender roles on their heads and muddled things up. Now we have woman acting like men and vice versa.

synycalwon on October 7, 2007 at 1:28 AM

Ms. Mulvey needs a cat.

pedestrian on October 7, 2007 at 1:28 AM

Yes she does. It will probably be the only relationship she will ever have.

Connie on October 7, 2007 at 1:32 AM

Now we have woman acting like men and vice versa.

synycalwon on October 7, 2007 at 1:28 AM

We also have a lot of women who would like to go back to being feminine, rather than being feminists. If they could find a way to do that, men would naturally go back to being masculine.

Connie on October 7, 2007 at 1:37 AM

I still have my Beta VCR somewhere. Seriously, it’s in the attic at my parents’ house I think!

Despite what the liberal females say (non-lesbian ones at least) they still want a man’s man. The men-hating lesbos just hate men no matter what type, which is why I don’t have any lesbian friends.

SouthernGent on October 7, 2007 at 1:53 AM

Ms. Mulvey needs a cat.

pedestrian on October 7, 2007 at 1:28 AM

AP has a cat.

j/k AP. :-)

csdeven on October 7, 2007 at 1:56 AM

F15Mech: I couldn’t agree more. Fact is, God gave the wife more power, in the sense that if she wants to, she can make life a living hell, no matter what the husband does or doesn’t do. If she willingly cedes power to the husband, and allows him to lead (which is what men were designed for), most likely he will be putty in her hands. It’s a conundrum: the good wife doesn’t often use the power she has over him, and the good husband will lead humbly.

A note to those who think the marriage relationship works best as “equal partners” or with “spheres of influence”: that’s bullsh*t. No working relationship (yes, marriage is a lot of work) functions well for very long when there isn’t a clear chain of authority. You can bluster and protest all you want, and tell me I’m a neanderthal misogynist whatever, but that’s the fact.

I’m blessed to be married (17 yrs) to a woman who willingly and happily allows me to lead. So I lead, even though I screw up all the time. Wifey doesn’t dwell on my mistakes, and supports me as I try to improve. There isn’t anything I wouldn’t do for her. It’s a permanent honeymoon.

Splashman on October 7, 2007 at 2:35 AM

Bit of insecurity there. A troubled person for sure.

pat on October 7, 2007 at 2:35 AM

KILL THE ALPHAS. BETA REVOLUTION.

You do see the inherent flaw in that concept, right?

Heh. Good one, bbz123.

Splashman on October 7, 2007 at 2:40 AM

This value system recognises recognizes the trend of female supremacy

Wise man always say “yes dear” before proceeding to do pretty much whatever he pleases.

MB4 on October 7, 2007 at 2:56 AM

KILL THE ALPHAS. BETA REVOLUTION.

So you mean the Beta Master is the Master Beta?

MB4 on October 7, 2007 at 2:58 AM

Ms. Mulvey needs a cat.

pedestrian on October 7, 2007 at 1:28 AM

Cats rule, dogs drool.

God created the cat so that man could pet the Tiger.

Man who wants to pet woman should pet cat.

MB4 on October 7, 2007 at 3:01 AM

I wonder what makes Allah think he is beta. He weilds the mighty ban-hammer here. Are there lesser degrees? I might rank an iota or a mu.

laelaps on October 7, 2007 at 3:44 AM

Chuck Norris makes alpha males wash his dirty underwear.. and like it.

GoodBoy on October 7, 2007 at 4:59 AM

Connie on October 7, 2007 at 12:56 AM…
not the fact that she could speak five languages.

Connie on October 7, 2007 at 12:57 AM

Or type in one?

;>

Sorry, this thread is a target rich environment.

Just couldn’t resist takin’ a swing at that one.

soundingboard on October 7, 2007 at 5:22 AM

All this Alpha-Beta stuff is Greek to me.

The only two kinds of men I know are the ones who are whipped. And the ones who wanna be.

soundingboard on October 7, 2007 at 5:25 AM

Are there lesser degrees?

Omegas are the lowest status of all. In some animal societies betas are (temporarily unsuccessful) competitors for the alpha male status, and hence are of higher status than the rest of the pack/tribe, except the alpha(s).

But in the different animal species, YMMV.

Apropos that the movie Fight Club should be playing on Cinemax right now.

RD on October 7, 2007 at 5:29 AM

I think the quote along the right sidebar deserves consideration:

My daughter’s relationship to the chickens was distinctly Christ-like

mikeyboss on October 7, 2007 at 5:30 AM

I’m 48 and I’ve never seen a happy home led by a woman. I’ve seen plenty of happy homes led by a men.

Mojave Mark on October 7, 2007 at 1:14 AM

…a men?

Wouldn’t that just be a synonym of happy?

soundingboard on October 7, 2007 at 5:31 AM

Now we have woman acting like men and vice versa.

synycalwon on October 7, 2007 at 1:28 AM

L.O.L.A. Lola.

soundingboard on October 7, 2007 at 5:38 AM

I do all the cooking, cleaning, and laundry in my house and I still wear the pants.

csdeven on October 6, 2007 at 10:38 PM

Careful buddy, you’re leaving yourself wide open there…

Texas Nick 77 on October 7, 2007 at 6:34 AM

Does this have anything to do with Hillary?

d1carter on October 7, 2007 at 12:46 AM

Actually, until I clicked on the link, I thought she was the one that said the lead-in paragraph.

Texas Nick 77 on October 7, 2007 at 6:40 AM

I might rank an iota or a mu.

laelaps on October 7, 2007 at 3:44 AM

This is nu to me.

Texas Nick 77 on October 7, 2007 at 6:44 AM

A woman wants a man who is confident, whether alpha, beta, gamma or delta.

Qzsusy on October 7, 2007 at 6:55 AM

And now, an observation from the Master himself….

“Hmmm… Are you the little girl who had a tizzy at the idea of dissecting a dead alien?”

“No, sir, I am not. I’ve decided to stay grown up. It’s not easy. But it’s more satisfying. An adult doesn’t panic at a snake; she just checks to see if it’s got rattles. I’ll never squeal again. I’m grown up at last…a wife instead of a Princes.”

“You will always be my Princess!”

I hope so, my Chieftain. But to merit that, I must learn to be a pioneer mother– wring the neck of a rooster, butcher a hog, load while my husband shoots, take his place and his rifle when he is wounded. I’ll learn– I’m stubborn, I am.”

-Zebediah John Carter and his blushing bride, Dejah Thoris (Deety) Burroughs Carter, in The Number of the Beast…, by Robert A. Heinlein, 1980.

No one would ever call any of Heinlein’s women characters anything but “Alpha”. The same held true for his men. This is logical, as Heinlein and his lovely wife, Virginia, were both Alphas with genius-level IQs.

And I have yet to see any Alpha, male or female, who finds his portrayals of men and women, rather separately (as in Friday) or as couples (as in Beast) to be in any way unrealistic or unbelievable.

Yes, women want confident, capable men. And men want competent, capable women, as well. Any honest, rational human being understands this, unless they have been blinded by the propaganda of the less confident and less competent, who don’t want anyone to outdo them in any way. (Think “gender feminists” on the one side, and “metrosexuals” on the other.)

Other writers have also explored this subject. In Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged, Dagny Taggart was attracted to first Hank Rearden, and then John Galt, for the same reason they both found her desirable- all three were not just physically strong and attractive, but competent to a fault in their own areas. By comparison, Dagny’s incompetent and witless brother James picked a “trophy wife”, Cheryl, for looks and nothing else- and essentially abandoned her when she had the insight to point out the inherent contradictions in his thoughts and actions. To put it bluntly, she had shown herself to be, not too “Alpha”, but simply too logical for him to tolerate.

The modern “enlightened” types, male or female, do not react well to logic. In any form. I suspect that Ms. Mulvey would have a reaction remarkably similar to James Taggart’s when confronted with a man who exercised his mental faculties correctly. I.e., she would hastily retreat.

Of course, then she would also blame him for being an “inflexible, hidebound, insensitive male”, as well. Never admitting to herself that it would be she who was, in fact, displaying an “inflexible, hidebound” mentality.

I do not believe Ms. Mulvey would pass muster with any of Heinlein’s or Rand’s heroes. Or heroines.

cheers

eon

eon on October 7, 2007 at 9:03 AM

I don’t get it. If an alpha male wants a beta female, wouldn’t a beta male want a gamma female?

I mean, none of the beta males I know want to be betas.

Tanya on October 7, 2007 at 9:06 AM

Oh, and on a side note, randomly babbling in a foreign language to a stranger, when you’re on a first date, is incredibly rude.

Way to totally alienate your date and make him feel like a third wheel, there, honey. I wouldn’t have ever spoken to you again either.

Tanya on October 7, 2007 at 9:10 AM

Well I would rather skewer my eyes out than change my personality

Money quote…

For any relationship to work, there has to be a certain amount of give and take… If one side is totaly dominant in all things, it will fail…

She’s not alone because she’s smart… she’s alone because of her personality… and she seems to admit it with that statement…

Just a bit O the ole Freud there….

Romeo13 on October 7, 2007 at 9:29 AM

Didn’t Sean Penn spend their short marriage slapping Madonna around? Talk about yer bloody underwear…

Gimme the Iron Lady over Pelosi, Hillary and Co. any day.

Jeffersonian on October 7, 2007 at 9:30 AM

Careful buddy, you’re leaving yourself wide open there…

Texas Nick 77 on October 7, 2007 at 6:34 AM

HA! I’m an Alpha Male! I can take it! :-)

csdeven on October 7, 2007 at 9:35 AM

Speaking of Alpha males, anyone seen the latest Iron Man trailer?

Bastards are making me wait until May 08!!

I like the retro look suit. Very much like the original. Then they knock it outta the park with the modern version. I bet he could do the house work and still kick a$$!

csdeven on October 7, 2007 at 9:40 AM

eon,

I want to add to your mention of Dagny Taggert that in both of her relationships, she takes a decidedly submissive role despite being a top-dog Alpha in the business world(Notably, in both cases it is she, not the males, who initiates the power dynamic).
I wonder how much grief the liberals and feminazis have given Ayn Rand over that through the years.

Lancer on October 7, 2007 at 9:46 AM

The happiest married women I know let their husbands be the head of the household but those husbands are the kind of guys who make sure their wives are a priority and doesn’t try to be an alpha male even though they are. A real alpha male doesn’t have to prove it.

GoodBoy on October 6, 2007 at 11:58 PM

Very good point. My husband is the alpha male, but I get whatever I want. I’m spoiled, I know – but he definitely makes sure that I’m taken care of first, no matter what, every time.

pullingmyhairout on October 7, 2007 at 9:52 AM

soundingboard on October 7, 2007 at 5:22 AM

Lame.

Connie on October 7, 2007 at 10:10 AM

So why haven’t the beta males gone extinct?
Sorta’ like Sony’s Beta did?

Supply and demand.

MSimon on October 7, 2007 at 10:27 AM

I don’t get it. If an alpha male wants a beta female, wouldn’t a beta male want a gamma female?

Have you ever seen what a gamma female looks like? Yeesh.

Allahpundit on October 7, 2007 at 10:49 AM

I wonder what makes Allah think he is beta.

Experience, sir, experience.

Allahpundit on October 7, 2007 at 10:50 AM

Have you ever seen what a gamma female looks like? Yeesh.

Heh. Is that how it works on the female side? More about looks than stepfordism?

Tanya on October 7, 2007 at 11:39 AM

The only two kinds of men I know are the ones who are whipped. And the ones who wanna be.

soundingboard on October 7, 2007 at 5:25 AM

Alpha men aren’t whipped, they’ve figured out how to watch the game in peace.

sunny on October 7, 2007 at 11:59 AM

AP-

Experience, sir, experience.

Experience is raw material.

You can build a cage or a ladder.

profitsbeard on October 7, 2007 at 12:06 PM

Maybe her date was annoyed because he has seen that SNL skit where the Italian waiters start making out with the ladies in front of their dates/husbands.

kooly on October 7, 2007 at 12:45 PM

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