According to the passage, if you choose to believe that Jesus was the son of God, you will avoid oblivion and receive the gift of eternal life. As far as your other contention, that your afterlife will be whatever you wish it to be, I don’t personally believe that simply because my wildest earthly wishes can’t even come close to anything infinite.

angryoldfatman on October 7, 2007 at 2:05 PM

True, the Jesus in the gospel of John came off much more acid-drenched than the Jesus in the Synoptic gospels. There, Jesus speaks of an eternity in hell, which blows a hole right through the heart of your “oblivion” argument. But who said the Jesus ever had to make sense? I find much more comfort in discounting the whole thing a religious psychobabble and you should, too. Since you already ignore many things that Jesus said, I don’t see why you can’t ignore the totality of his weird sayings.

I feel the same way about agnostics as I do moderates.

MAKE UP YOUR D@MN MIND AND PICK A SIDE.

I can accept an opposing viewpoint, but wishy-washy people drive me bananas. !!!

:D

JayHaw Phrenzie on October 6, 2007 at 7:08 PM

That’s an interesting viewpoint. Are you a Christian? If not, then it makes sense. Christians usually prefer to coerce non-believers into the “agnostic” category if they think that their proselytizing efforts have a chance to be successful. To me, it seems that they like feeling like they have a “foot in the door”.

But to answer your question, non-believers call themselves “agnostic” when they are afraid of the abuse that they will receive by calling themselves “atheist”. Or, alternatively, they are using “agnostic” as a euphemism for negative atheist (”I do not believe in god(s)”) because positive atheist (”I believe there is no god”) does not fit.

Yay, atheist radio! More blasphemy! Blasphemy 24×7! (That is genuine praise and enthusiasm, by the way.)

Syndic Nuruodo on October 7, 2007 at 6:55 PM

You mean like you are forced to go to church?

More hatred from the atheists.

Rose on October 6, 2007 at 7:51 PM

And more hysterical whining from the “loving and compassionate” christians, who were brutally forced by atheists to listen to this evil godless radio channel.

Since God did not provide enough sound (beyond the reach of human corruption of the texts) evidence, or an organ of direct and common apprehension of Its own existence, It would naturally have more respect for someone who declared this hard truth, rather than for someone who merely bought whatever local belief system was around (Shinto, Jain, Aztec, etc.) about It merely because it was culturally advantageous or eternally reassuring.

Skepticism is thus more divine than belief.

And, given the mental apparatus we have, more honest.

I understand that kids need to be told comforting things.

It’s only decent.

But they grow up.

Then, they have to learn our limits.

so what you’re saying is, if you don’t believe in God you don’t go to heaven or hell? you just cease to exist? so what you’re saying is that you get whatever afterlife you dream of during life? are you listening to yourself? that’s ridiculous…

Kaptain Amerika on October 6, 2007 at 10:14 PM

Not so ridiculous, if you believe the most famous verse in the New Testament:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Does “perish” here mean simply physical death? That would be silly, wouldn’t it, since even Jesus experienced physical death. So “perish” must mean something else.

Likewise, a promise of everlasting life is silly if one believes that humans are born with an immortal spirit. This would be promising you something you already have, whether you fulfill your “end of the bargain” (belief in Jesus as the son of God) or not. And if you believe that you are going to be tormented in Hell forever if you die in sin, then you obviously believe that your spirit is immortal and therefore the promise in John 3:16 above is moot.

So “perish”, if I understand the passage (and the rest of my Bible) correctly, means to cease to exist, in the material world as well as the spiritual world (if we exist spiritually at all before we acknowledge God), just as you have deduced.

According to the passage, if you choose to believe that Jesus was the son of God, you will avoid oblivion and receive the gift of eternal life. As far as your other contention, that your afterlife will be whatever you wish it to be, I don’t personally believe that simply because my wildest earthly wishes can’t even come close to anything infinite.

I don’t believe it.

People believe in God as a matter of faith, since there’s no proof. And people believe there is no God as a matter of faith, since there’s no proof of that either. So there’s no proof of either proposition.
petefrt on October 6, 2007 at 11:51 PM

And…therein ends the open thread discussions for commentators the likes of sinner, dinner, loundry, foundry, the nosquids, the bubbasquids, and all other nonfactors.

My list has been updated.

I feel the same way about agnostics as I do moderates.

MAKE UP YOUR D@MN MIND AND PICK A SIDE.

I can accept an opposing viewpoint, but wishy-washy people drive me bananas. !!!

:D

JayHaw Phrenzie on October 6, 2007 at 7:08 PM

Feel as you wish, my friend. But spare me your bananas… do not mistake agnosticism for a lack of theological, cosmological thought or decision.

You make the mistake of thinking that because science can’t prove it, it isn’t so.

People believe in God as a matter of faith, since there’s no proof. And people believe there is no God as a matter of faith, since there’s no proof of that either. So there’s no proof of either proposition.

I can live with uncertainty. I say, I just CAN’T know. It’s an accommodation to the limitations of knowledge and inherent uncertainty of the human condition. Can you handle uncertainty?

THE GOLDEN AGE BEGINS.
Allahpundit on October 6, 2007 at 6:36 PM

Hardly, and is this really anything new? Yes, it’s on radio now – how special. Yet atheism has been around for centuries and has never overtaken personal belief in a Supreme being. Have your new little radio show. I’m happy for you. It will soon aspire to the ratings Air America enjoyed.

logis

Well, the market was cornered on smarm so we had to pick something.

12-6 a.m.- Morning With Nada Kumanitch.
8-9 a.m.- Drive Time with Zip Heddly.
9-11:59 a.m.- Open Line with Nul Voyd.
12 p.m.- Lunch Time with Nichevo Peach.
1-3 p.m.- Afternoon Chat with Dik Nix.
3-6 p.m.- Review of Non-News with Mel Blank.
6-11:59 a.m.- Dead Air with Aggie Nostisk

Does it sound better in Spanish?
oldleprechaun on October 6, 2007 at 8:46 PM

Someone mention SPAIN?
“And under the pretense of tolerance, and because we wanted to prove to ourselves that we were cured of the disease of racism, we opened our gates to 20 million Muslims, who brought us stupidity and ignorance, religious extremism and lack of tolerance, crime and poverty due to an unwillingness to work and support their families with pride.”
.
read it all, its a short one.

Most of the atheists I’ve heard over the years come across as mean spirited, bitter, condescending, harsh, overbearing and quite often just plain unpleasant, for the most part.
least1 on October 6, 2007 at 9:34 PM

Atheists are arguably the most righteous people in the world. Belief in something outside yourself requires commitment; but SELF righteousness is, literally, its own reward.

Unfortunately, it’s also incredibly irritating and boring to everyone besides its practitioner. I give these guys about three weeks.

AP, I am waiting for God to dump all things Hitchens. What a hopeless future you atheists face. No matter if there is an afterlife or not, you don’t get it. By choice.

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on October 6, 2007 at 7:44 PM

so what you’re saying is, if you don’t believe in God you don’t go to heaven or hell? you just cease to exist? so what you’re saying is that you get whatever afterlife you dream of during life? are you listening to yourself? that’s ridiculous…

this all breaks down to two questions that cannot be answered…

1. where did everything come from?
2. what was before that?

if you answer god to #1 then #2 bites you on the ass….
if you answer evolution and natural selection and scientific process then #2 bites you on the ass again.

so where does that leave us? with faith or admitting you don’t and cannot know… I’ll take “admitting I don’t know”, rather than taking the word of a bunch of guys writing on paper and wiping their asses with their hands…

what’s the problem with an “atheist radio show”?

same problem with a “christian radio show”

BORING.

Let me say as an atheist that the problem with atheist radio is that it is as boring as theism. No one would listen to a theist radio station. One listens to the radio station of a theist religion like Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or Walmart.* Atheist religions like Marxism, Libertarianism, Objectivism, radical environmentalism, NGOism, and perhaps Buddhism also can get big radio audiences.

That atheism is a thin gruel is no objection to atheism. One simply must add other elements. And the same has always been true for theism. Otherwise, Unitarianism wouldn’t just be outsized in his influence for its numbers, but one of the largest religious sects in America.

*Walmart reference purely for humor value.