Sorry, this post belonged in the Miller thread over at MM.com

Wow, you gave me chills!!
Glad you wrote that!

ChrisIansNana on October 8, 2007 at 2:42 PM

Indeed, some people get it and some don’t. Those who get it see that flag as representing all that is good and sacred about this great republic. Those that don’t just see the flag as a piece of cloth.

Our founding father’s were not so inclined to think kindly about those who didn’t understand as we today are. In fact it was exactly those people who didn’t understand that Samuel Adams made his famous quote regarding.

Samuel Adams

“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say ‘what should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”

From Michelle Malkin’s blog always an excellent source for news on the immigration battle, you should check it out daily.Are we a sovereign nation or a sanctuary nation?
I often remind you: It’s your choice.
You can choose to get involved in……

My flag is a lot more than cloth.
Don’t ever discount the Stars and Stripes meaning or the significance.

Our ‘American’ flag

Our American flag is more than colors..fabric.
It’s more, than the visual a breeze imparts.
It’s more, than a phrase of allegiance.
It’s more even, than a national symbol.
Our ‘American’ flag is remembrances, rare and common.
Our ‘American’ flag carries knowledge of certain events.
The sound, unmistakable and distinct…after battle, taps.
The epiphany at it’s raising on Iwo Jima…Ground zero…Baseball game.
The length and width of us all, anywhere.
Our ‘American’ flag carries blood…Sons and Daughters, Mothers and Fathers.
Always, the sight of our ‘American’ flag will tear tears from our strongest.
Yes, Yes, our ‘American’ flag is worth dieing for.
Without remembrance, we have no essence…meaning for which to live.
With remembrance and our flag, we shall survive.

Speakup on October 6, 2007 at 1:36 PM

Wow, you gave me chills!!
Glad you wrote that!

They’re rules made by politicians with no regard for either the person doing the work, taking the risk, and defending the ability of the rulemakers to make the rules.

The right to property is a fundamental American right, not a mere “philosophical position.”

That’s a f-a-c-t.

Slublog on October 5, 2007 at 11:30 AM

See Kelo v. New London. Private property is now a privilege. The Supreme Court held the benefit a community receives from from economic growth qualifies little ol’ redevelopment plans as a permissible “public use” under the Fifth Amendment.

Having been involved with Christian Service Brigade (like a Christian Boy Scouts) we were all taught the traditional military methods of removing and folding an American flag with 4 people, 3 people, 2 people and alone.

However, most of these ceremonies were just that, ceremony and NOT law or code. The only part of the law (US Code Title 4, Chapter 1) regarding the removal of a flag is in section 9 “Conduct during hoisting, lowering or passing of flag.”

Conduct during hoisting, lowering or passing of flag

During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, all persons present except those in uniform should face the flag and stand at attention with the right hand over the heart. Those present in uniform should render the military salute. When not in uniform, men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Aliens should stand at attention. The salute to the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes

Other than that, the only other section that would pertain to Mr. Brossard’s behavior is in Section 8, subsection b.

The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

So unless he was disrespectful of the flag by allowing it to touch the ground or any other object (save the pole the flag was flying from) he did not violate this particular section of the US code. Which pretty much deflates both that lawyer’s argument and yours AP.

Of course, there is still the argument of private property/freedom of expression vs. US Code. While I am not a lawyer, it is my understanding that Freedom of Expression ends when violations of law begin. For example: I am free to express myself, but not by running naked down the i90 in rush hour traffic. Another way of putting is to say that I am not free to break the law in the process of expressing myself. This is what the owner of the Mexican flag was doing. Breaking the law while expressing himself.

Private property issues are another problem altogether, however I would imagine a similar principle as the one related to freedom of expression applies to that of private property.

While I do not necessarily think that Mr. Broussard was right to take the law into his own hands by correcting the flag flying order, one might be able to make the case of a “citizen’s arrest” type of situation. I guess I’ll leave that one up to the lawyers.

For those that are interested, here is a link to a full copy of US Code Title 4 Chapter 1.

Disgusting, I just lost my appetite and will put the t-bone back into the refrigerator until tomorrow.There is no way I could enjoy a t-bone tonight after viewing some of Zombies photos.

I think the knife ceremony was the best proceedure for recitfying the situation.

Our laws regarding handling of foreign flags extend to proper displays of such flags. Those displays are meant to be formal expressions of the dignity and sovereignty of the nations associated with them. The desecration of that foreign flag happened not when this man removed it but when it was put up originally with malice aforethought in clear violation of the law meant to protect it. The flag was used as a weapon, put up to drive a wedge in our culture and our identity as Americans. As such, the particulars of its proper handling were never in effect, except as vestigial trappings, devoid of meaning.

Red meat, indeed. Feh. Don’t worry. Soon enough, there won’t be an America left to care any more than you do about such things.

Try removing your “technical” perspective and look at the human processes at work here…

Another thing, I was just looking over a huge collection of image files I have of those alleged “undocumented immigrants” from their various displays and marches of late and I have a number of images wherein they’re flying the U.S. flag upside down, where they attack and destroy the U.S. flag (I thought they “only wanted to work”), and several that document many of them flying the U.S. flag before the cameras and as soon as the cameras stopped clicking, those illegal aliens threw the U.S. flags down and most of them laughed and stomped on them afterward, assuming the filming was over.

S on October 6, 2007 at 9:44 PM

Thanks for the answer. I consider the things you mentioned both legitimate and pressing concerns. And allow me to say, again, I think the guy is a patriot. I have not, and will not say otherwise.

I’m not trying to say people aren’t honorable who cheer him. He11 I cheer him, but ‘might make right’ theory (told the king to go f* himself) or the sovereignty theory are either wrong or flawed. We were very concerned with the law when we declared independence and we appealed to both the English and Nature’s law (and one of Americana’s most famous lines is – let us trust that right makes might). The sovereignty issue is important and makes an interesting argument, but that was not what was on Brossard’s mind because he cut away the American flag, not the Mexican flag. In short he ‘redeemed’ Old Glory, not removed the Mexican and running the American back up.

So the issue in his mind was a moral one – he saw an atrocity. He answered a higher calling – moral law. I applaud that. But it is also true that he violated a fellow citizens rights and he should answer for that – I think a fine for the cost of rope and flag is fitting. I don’t want to see him castigated, I think he is hero, but I also believe this is a nation of laws that is founded on respect for the property of the individual.

That is why I asked the question, because I was curious. It’s not the treatment of the flag then so much as the motive of the treatment of the flag. Arguing the value of the flag is an exercise in futility to me, comparing it to cloth is like equating the Bible as paper. It either is special to you or not; it’s very dear to me, but equally so are the fundamental principles of our Republic.

As to the weight of your commentary on Mexico. It is an insult to the American citizenship to sell itself so cheaply as the administration has in dealing with Mexico. It is absurd for the administration to entertain any of the complaints from the Mexican government when the Mexican government is complicit and explicit in violating our laws. It is beyond the pale.

On the individual level, though, I personally don’t care for the assumption of motive, so I prefer the process via law. However, if the display was continued with disregard to law (requiring that owner was informed and refused to bring it down) then that aspect is satisfied in my mind. (Just for the record, I don’t have any problem with people being proud of their culture as long as they assimilate and uphold our law).

Allahpundit – you do not DESERVE an iPhone. May you never get one in this life. May the price drop till you have no excuse not to BUY one for yourself. Then may they always be sold out.

Right on Allah – you get the phone, I may even get my dad to buy you one if Michelle doesn’t.

If you are a moonbat, then you are only one amougst the wingnuts….LOL.

out.

I am a Christian first, a conservative second. If being a conservative means that I must mindlessly pursue a policy of rigid adherence to the law, then the atheists like AP can KEEP their “conservative” priniciples for themselves — it’s not for me. THAT kind of mindset is apropos for a Pharisee, but certainly not for a Christian.

Jesus reserved His harshest criticism for people that espoused exactly this point of view, viz. that the “letter of the law” should be held highest in esteem, above all else. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if I remember correctly, Jesus referred to these people as “white-washed sepulchres” and “a brood of vipers.” The operative words that He hurled at them over and over again were something along the lines of “woe unto you…woe unto you…woe unto you…” In fact, I believe that He predicted that things would go rather badly for these types on the day of judgement — worse for them even than for the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, didn’t He?

I would HOPE that most people that call themselves “conservative” would realize that there are some principles that not only can, but MUST be held in higher esteem than the “law of the land.” While I won’t necessarily argue one way or the other in this particular instance (forcibly removing the flags, and all), I WILL argue that the laws devised by men (poor pathetic, misguided creatures that they are) are certainly NOT supreme. There are some principles that supercede man’s laws – like for instance “inalienable rights endowed by the Creator”. And if that doesn’t shock you, then try imagine this one: There are even some principles that are worth dying for.

My collie says:

There are situations where “the spirit of the law” can and MUST trump “the letter of the law.” Furthermore, it is important that we realize that this is a “fundamental truth”, so that we are prepared to suffer the adverse consequences that must be paid for breaking “the letter of law” — in those instances where there are more important principles at stake.

You see, even my stupid dog understands it. Then, on the other hand, it just MIGHT be entertaining for me (and maybe some others here) to see AllahPundit arguing face-to-face with God (on the day of judgement) that Jesus was “in the wrong” when He broke the law and healed people on the sabbath, and when He “committed blasphemy” by claiming to be the “I AM”.

It’s “racism” FROM among Hispanic ethnicities upon North America (actually, it’s ethnic supremacy because “Hispanic” is an ethnicity, not a “race”). Like the Left in the U.S., however, they all apply the denigration to others to attempt to avoid being held accountable for their own behaviors.

Mexico declares it’s nation to be it’s people wherever they are and by people from Mexico in the U.S. refusing to integrate as members of the U.S. in preference / insistence upon them as Mexicans, as Mexico, they really do declare themselves to be “foreign” by intention and plan without intention or plan to become one with the U.S. but instead with intention to oppose it, to maintain loyalties to another nation (which would be fine to a certain extent on a non-military, non forceful level if they were honest about it and by that, recognized themselves as visitors here).

(1.) Focus for starters on the country of Mexico, what it’s citizens are and have been doing in present times where out nation is concerned.

There’s no comparison with some Italian immigrants (legal, by the way, applied, stood in line, participated in screening before admittance to the country and abided by deportation when they didn’t pass, used their own names, paid taxes, didn’t receive social services nor demand that the U.S. speak Italian to suit their comforts, and more).

Laying an Italian flag over a railing on a day of special note by legal immigrants from Italy is pretty well and easily recognized by nearly everyone in the U.S. as a cultural statement, NOT as statement of invasive intent or arrogant denigration of the U.S. but of someone commemorizing their culture.

Compare that to the vast majority of illegal immigrants from Mexico who use “immigration” of the illegal and some of the legal kind to intrude, so to speak, to REPLACE a U.S. civilization/nation with one of their own making (”wherever there’s a Mexican, there’s Mexico” and the AZTLAN/Hispanic ethnic-supremacy movement).

(2.) The Mexican flag this U.S. citizen removed from display on U.S. soil was being flown above the U.S. flag — which is a blatant statement not only of disrespect for the U.S. flag but an aggressive statement of SUBMISSION of the U.S. flag to the “dominant” position of the Mexican flag.

Mix that display into the present day behaviors by many from Mexico that seeks to eradicate the very idea of “the U.S.” and replace it BY POPULATION with people from Mexico or any other Hispanic from anywhere and you get A METHOD OF INVASION…it’s not just emotional terminology, it’s an actual “hardware” process by which a nation (it’s people, we citizens of the U.S.) are REPLACED intentionally and persistently WITH THE INTENT of eradicating our people and replacing them with, mostly, “Mexico.”

It’s a cultural and a political process as it is also a paramilitary process.

It can’t reasonably be compared to some legal immigrant placing their native country’s flag on a railing in honor of their origins.

Try removing your “technical” perspective and look at the human processes at work here…

Another thing, I was just looking over a huge collection of image files I have of those alleged “undocumented immigrants” from their various displays and marches of late and I have a number of images wherein they’re flying the U.S. flag upside down, where they attack and destroy the U.S. flag (I thought they “only wanted to work”), and several that document many of them flying the U.S. flag before the cameras and as soon as the cameras stopped clicking, those illegal aliens threw the U.S. flags down and most of them laughed and stomped on them afterward, assuming the filming was over.

vig·i·lan·te
n.
1. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one’s own hands.

You see ALLAHP? You have to take law enforcement into your own hands to be a vigilante. In this case, Mr Broussard called law enforcement and they said they can do nothing because what was happening wasn’t against the law. The Fed’s say there’s nothing they can do because the flag law isn’t really a law, it’s a recommendation which they will not enforce.

So, therefore ALLAHP, Mr Broussard is NOT a vigilante and CANNOT be labeled as such with anything less then contempt or spite. So… why do you hate him ALLAHP?

What he is, though, is a COURAGEOUS HERO who’s not AFRAID to do the right thing even though it’s NOT P.C.!

You don’t worry about the flag of another nation, that never should have been on that pole to begin with, falling to the ground… you rescue Old Glory!

Not picking a fight (just saying b/c tempers run high on this thread), but what do you feel about this:
I know some people who will fly Union Jack under the Stars and Stripes in honor of their help in Iraq.
Similar, haven’t seen, but heard of people who also do that with the Israeli flag. Your feeling?

I assume it technically improper, but does the motive absolve it? Would that also apply to Italian flag draped over the balcony in NY of immigrants at turn of century? Motive absolve?

You don’t stop to conduct a ceremony… the U.S. flag was improperly dipped below the flag of another nation, and that must be instantly corrected. You rescue the Stars and Stripes!

You don’t stop to untie the rope… you cut it down and rescue the American flag!

You don’t worry about the flag of another nation, that never should have been on that pole to begin with, falling to the ground… you rescue Old Glory!

Brossard would win in any court in the land… except for a few locales in Californication.

I bled under that flag….. don’t you ever say its not sacred to me. Better question, why did I have to say this when I wanted to keep it to myself because I never wanted it to be a counter point to something.

His action is that of a true patriot.

Did he violate protocol in the way he removed the flags?

Perhaps.

Since he did a good, patriotic act by removing the illegally displayed Mexican flag, and countered that by not following proper flag removal and handling protocol, I’d say that his balance of good Vs bad cancels one another out to some extent and he ends up almost even, without jail time, but lacking the absolute moral superiority to be praised without restraint. He ends up with a bit more bankable good for his action than bad.

I still applaud him!

William