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Governor Eliot Spitzer has decreed that illegal aliens can be issued a New York driver’s, beginning in December, and the word is a Mexican Matricula ID card will be accepted as proof of identity, even though they are easily obtainable on America&…

He claims it is not his job to go after illegal aliens, but as former Attorney Bully of the Republic, he should realize that he did take an oath to defent the Constitution of the US and its laws as well as the Constitution of New York State and NYS laws…or perhaps I am mistaken?

What a slap in the face to our laws, our security, our soveirnity, and to those who come here…LEGALLY.

The Department of Homeland Security contemplates a universal design for compliant and non-compliant REAL ID cards. A universal design, especially for a card including citizenship status, would cause irreparable harm, as it would foster suspicion of those who do not wish to carry the REAL ID card. Uniform design for a national identification card would also create an enormous security risk.

The agency is considering a uniform REAL ID card design, asking for comments on “[w]hether DHS should standardize the unique design or color required for non-REAL ID under the REAL ID Act for ease of nationwide recognition, and whether DHS should also implement a standardized design or color for REAL ID licenses.” Mandating distinct designs or colors for both REAL ID and regular licenses and identification cards and requiring non-REAL ID driver’s licenses or ID cards to have explicit “invalid for federal purposes” designations turns this “voluntary” card into a mandatory national ID card. It would divide the country into two — people with the REAL ID card and those without — and anyone with a different license or ID card would be instantly suspicious. Significant delay, complication and possibly harassment or discrimination would fall upon those who choose not to carry a REAL ID card.

In the agency’s economic analysis (pdf) of the draft regulations, reducing ID theft is listed as one of the potential ancillary benefits of the national identification system. However, the agency says that the potential benefit would depend on a vast expansion of REAL ID uses from the three official purposes required in the draft regulations; DHS suggests what is needed is “incidental and required use of REAL ID documents in everyday transactions.” DHS envisions that employers, social service agencies (including Medicare, Medicaid and student financial aid), firearm sellers and licensors, and election workers will all use this national identification system. The official and unofficial uses of REAL ID must not be broadened. Such expansion would harm national security. Using a single card for many identification purposes would be the same as using one key for every lock. Using a single national ID card is a foolish, ineffective, and easily circumvented attempt at security.

So if you caught an employee stealing from your company would you give them a raise and a promotion and increase their paid vacation time ? I’m thinking that must be the way you would deal with it because the federal government has steadfastly refused to enforce the law they are Constitutionally obligated to enforce and you want to reward them with more power. They tried to force shamnisty down our throats twice. Not enforcing the law benefits them because we just give them more and more power. These people are not trustworthy with the power they have now, it’s crazy to give them more.

You say there is a HUGE amount of identity theft. By putting all of our data in one place it will become even more prevalent.

Maxx on October 4, 2007 at 7:56 PM

Except that the previous ways are not working… or we wouldn’t have 20 million illegals here, most working.

First off.. I do hire people… I own my own company… small… but still.

The drivers license is NOT proof of citizenship, and part of the problem is states like New York who are going to give it to anyone… so all the call does is proove that someone has a valid drivers license with that name and number (if you even check that).

Yes, you can ask for references, and social security cards, and you do register with the state for Unemployment insurance and Social Security…

But theres a HUGE amount of identity theft. The Feds don’t even tell you when a SSN does not match a name.

Last time I registered to vote, I was at a supermarket… and I guarentee that no one followed up to see if I was a Citizen or not, becuase there is NO WAY TO CHECK!

I often work as a consultant… no one checks my citizenship, or even references… when I had my deck built… I didn’t check references… and those guys who just go popped working at McDonald’s? I’m sure they all had “paperwork”.

Problem is that there are holes in the system… it aint working… so keepin the status quo is not an option I’m willing to try.

Uhh… without information on ALL citizens, and immigrants, and illegals… just how do you do that?

You know, I’m not an employer, so I don’t know exactly how it works but I think it’s something like this. You hand me a California driver’s license, there is a phone number to call to verify the number on that license that it is valid, along with a description of the person it was issued to. There is a way to do it.

We do not even have a database of who are citizens in this country… how do you weed out the illegals so you know who you can hire?

There is a database for each state, if it’s a Missouri license then you call the Missouri number, if it’s a Florida license you call the Florida number. That’s how.

And even more so, under equal protection, you will have to ask EVERYONE for proof, or you will be accused of prejudice and be taken to court.

That’s no problem, yes everyone does it. I got the job I have now over 23 years ago and I had to prove who I was and give them references and prove my qualifications and shows lots of papers from many sources. That’s the way it should be.

So, without a NATIONAL database… how do you figure out if that person is legal? or illegal?

The same way we have always done it, see previous answers.

And if your going to create that database anyway, may as well make it truly usefull.

Yeah, put all of our eggs into one untrustworthy unreliable self-serving basket, you really love big brother don’t you ?

Vincenzo on October 4, 2007 at 10:57 AM
The illegals do not have any ID. Does that mean that they qualify as citizens by default ?

First you build the wall so they can’t slip over the border. Then you increase the penalty for employers for hiring illegals. There are ways set up for employers to verify citizenship.

Maxx on October 4, 2007 at 7:10 PM

Uhh… without information on ALL citizens, and immigrants, and illegals… just how do you do that?

We do not even have a database of who are citizens in this country… how do you weed out the illegals so you know who you can hire?

And even more so, under equal protection, you will have to ask EVERYONE for proof, or you will be accused of prejudice and be taken to court.

So, without a NATIONAL database… how do you figure out if that person is legal? or illegal?

And if your going to create that database anyway, may as well make it truly usefull.

Tell me, without putting thousands of Active duty military on the border, how do you seal it? (which I am for by the way…).

There will ALWAYS be ways of getting into a country when you have thousands of miles of border. Add in those who overstay visas, and you have our problem.

Now, without a form of ID or Identity check to see if you are here legaly, how do you enforce the laws? Which ones are Citizens? which ones are legal immigrants? which ones are illegal?

You HAVE to have some way of checking, and under equal protection arguements with our overly litigious society, you then have to check EVERYONE… citizen, legal, or illegal.

I’m proposing that the Government does just that… before that proof is needed to get resources, or use the priveleges of our country.

Tell me… how do you enforce Illegal immigrant laws if you can’t tell who is illegal, and who is legal?

And just what is your solution to that problem, without a National ID?

Its nice to sit your principals, right up until it stops you from solving problems that alreay exist.

Romeo13 on October 4, 2007 at 5:21 PM

First you build the wall so they can’t slip over the border. Then you increase the penalty for employers for hiring illegals. There are ways set up for employers to verify citizenship. Once illegals can no longer get jobs or free services without being a citizen they will stop coming. Take the incentive out of them coming here and the problem is largely resolved.

ICE has been doing a lot more raids and rounding up many. Once the word gets out that illegal are no longer tolerated in the USA, even more of the problem is resolved. By attrition over time the number of illegals will be reduced to a very tolerable level and we will have stopped the flood of new illegals coming in.

We should not allow the feds to use this as an excuse to usurp yet another lawful responsibility of the state.

What you don’t do is reward the federal government for doing a lousy job. They have been trying to pass this national ID act for decades, long before the terrorist threat and long before illegal immigration became such a huge problem.

A national ID will not be anymore secure than state ID’s but we will get to pay for another huge bureaucracy. People will learn to fake a national ID just like they do passports and our currency, both produced by the feds. So in the end, all you have is another huge expense with no benefit and the potential for all of your data and everyone’s data to be stolen in a single clean sweep. Once the national ID has failed what’s the next thing the government will demand we do ? Will it be time for the government to demand that each person be fitted with an electronic beeper up our butts so they can track our every move by satellite ? Yes… of course that’s what they want next, the diminishment of our personal security and privacy never ends for as long as we are stupid enough to give them more and more power.

We must demand that government keep our borders secure AND keep our privacy and liberties in tact, or it’s all for nothing. We pay government big bucks to do exactly that and we should demand it. It’s not good enough that they solve the problems at the expense of our privacy and liberty. But that is always the route they want to take and the route they will always take unless we demand they do better. Caving into the national ID act is just another big brother dream come true. It will resolve nothing and do more harm to our privacy, our personal security and our liberty.

There will ALWAYS be ways of getting into a country when you have thousands of miles of border. Add in those who overstay visas, and you have our problem.

I think the best method remains internal enforcement and punishing employers. You could always mine the border, but I don’t like the thought of being trapped in by land.

Ochlan on October 4, 2007 at 5:31 PM

Northern border as well?

And what do you do with those already here?

Or who overstay visas?

Or come in as tourists, and stay??

And you do realize that the National Guard could NOT do this without Federalizing them? It would have to be done by Active Duty troops as National Guards are reserves, who are supposed to be part time soldiers.

Tell me, without putting thousands of Active duty military on the border, how do you seal it?

Why are you preemptively eliminating this option from discussion?

I _want_ the National Guard to _guard our nation_. I _want_ a tight string of outpost infrastructure across the whole southern border, if not an actual wall. I want big guns, starving dogs, landmines and swarms of killer bees to ‘incentivize’ these mexicans to reconsider violating our law and sovreignty.

I _want_ our government to eliminate _all_ entitlement programs. No welfare checks, no free school, no housing.

Maxx on October 4, 2007 at 4:19 PM

Tell me, without putting thousands of Active duty military on the border, how do you seal it? (which I am for by the way…).

There will ALWAYS be ways of getting into a country when you have thousands of miles of border. Add in those who overstay visas, and you have our problem.

Now, without a form of ID or Identity check to see if you are here legaly, how do you enforce the laws? Which ones are Citizens? which ones are legal immigrants? which ones are illegal?

You HAVE to have some way of checking, and under equal protection arguements with our overly litigious society, you then have to check EVERYONE… citizen, legal, or illegal.

I’m proposing that the Government does just that… before that proof is needed to get resources, or use the priveleges of our country.

Tell me… how do you enforce Illegal immigrant laws if you can’t tell who is illegal, and who is legal?

And just what is your solution to that problem, without a National ID?

Its nice to sit your principals, right up until it stops you from solving problems that alreay exist.

This is really what you always want to do. Whenever the government defies the people and refuses to do its job, the only solution is to give them even more power and more responsibility and more ability to control your life. That’s natural, everybody knows that !

I know, some people will say…. well we already have a national ID, we have passports and of course they get counterfeited all the time. Others will say, look at the money the feds print, it gets counterfeited too. But trust me, these national ID’s will be 100% secure, yes sir, the feds will get this right, all we got to do is trust them. And who cares that the problem isn’t that we can’t identify illegal’s. We can identify them just fine when we see the sneaking across our border…. but this national ID…. you see, those illegal’s will stop that right away…. because, well you know, they won’t have one and won’t dare cross that border without it, or at least without having a fake one….. so problem resolved !!

And hey, don’t worry about giving every detail of your personal affairs over to the government so they can put into a single database and put it online. You know the government can be trusted to keep your information safe. No hacker will ever get into it and steal your identity. No government employee will ever steal the information and sell it. And they would never abuse such power, just because they could blackmail you doesn’t mean they would, it never happens in politics, does it ?

But of course in this particular case, it was the federal government that CAUSED the problem in the first place by refusing to enforce the laws they are Constitutionally mandated to enforce. In other words, they FAILED to do their Constitutionally mandated duty and we the Citizens therefore get to give them even more power and pay for a whole new bureaucracy, just as it should be. No Matter…. we should indeed REWARD the federal government with even greater power because they failed so miserably that doing the job they were suppose to do in the first place. Yes sir… don’t worry, this national ID is going to fix everything, you just wait and see !

RANT/ off

Romeo13 on October 4, 2007 at 2:25 PM

No drivers licenses – check
No passports – check (other countries can just change their laws or do without our tourist $$$s)
No SSN – check…no ‘Social Security’ either
No taxpayer ID – check (I’m a FairTax guy)
No form if ID at all – check(ish)…_voluntary_ ID systems are OK with me.

We’ve got problems with illegal immigration in this country

Indeed. How does layering more and more bureaucracy help?

but you won’t let us FIX THE PROBLEM!!!!

I object to your proposed ‘fix’, as I consider it impotent and unconstitutional.

Ochlan on October 4, 2007 at 1:53 PM

so its your contention that the US should have NO IDs at all?

No drivers licenses, no passports (even though its other countries that also demand them), no SSN, no taxpayer ID?

No form if ID at all?

Or do you have problems with making it an effective ID?

We’ve got problems with illegal immigration in this country. They are tromping on MY RIGHTS as a citizen by taking up resources that I am paying for. They are breaking OUR laws by the very fact of being here… but you won’t let us FIX THE PROBLEM!!!!

And once again, how does putting data the government already has on us into a single database infringe on my rights?

Fact is that the only people who would have to worry about this are illegals… and it would be EASIER to get my priveleges as a citizen if we had it in place.

How will they be able to wear their sombreros on with lasers on their frickin’ heads?

With the passing of the “USA Patriot Headwear Act” this will no longer be an issue.

Ochlan on October 4, 2007 at 1:57 PM

now that’s funny .

How will they be able to wear their sombreros on with lasers on their frickin’ heads?