Quote of the day
posted at 11:35 pm on October 4, 2007 by Allahpundit
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“None of this is easy for someone raised to believe that the Second Amendment was the dividing line between the enlightenment and the dark ages of American culture. Yet, it is time to honestly reconsider this amendment and admit that … here’s the really hard part … the NRA may have been right. This does not mean that Charlton Heston is the new Rosa Parks or that no restrictions can be placed on gun ownership. But it does appear that gun ownership was made a protected right by the Framers and, while we might not celebrate it, it is time that we recognize it.”
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Support the right to arm bears.
MB4 on October 4, 2007 at 11:38 PM
This isn’t an isolated incident of leftists finally getting that the Second Amendment means something. I know some people might bristle over these lefties still reaching for certain bans and registries or other regulations, baby steps, show some patience and you’ll be rewarded.
Bad Candy on October 4, 2007 at 11:45 PM
Well good!!!!
Now Rosie O’Donald’s guards can caryy guns….
I’m glad we got THAT all straightened out!
Mcguyver on October 4, 2007 at 11:45 PM
Support bears with right arms .
Mojack420 on October 4, 2007 at 11:47 PM
Well, knock me over with a straw.
amerpundit on October 4, 2007 at 11:47 PM
Wow, you mean a liberal finally understands that “The right to keep and bear arms” means “The right to keep and bear arms”?
Duck, I think I see an flying swine coming for your head…
Viewtifulgare on October 4, 2007 at 11:48 PM
Independent thought is the antidote for liberalism.
infidel4life on October 4, 2007 at 11:53 PM
That is just so insensitive to the religion of piece and its practitioners.
bad bad bad bad
Mojack420 on October 4, 2007 at 11:58 PM
And satan is ice skating.
csdeven on October 4, 2007 at 11:59 PM
welp. no need for republicans now. 2nd amendment is safe.
lorien1973 on October 5, 2007 at 12:01 AM
Doesn’t change the fact that liberals view the constitution as something
they can change at will thru activist judgesto wipe their arses with.Buzzy on October 5, 2007 at 12:03 AM
That thought gives me paws.
RD on October 5, 2007 at 12:04 AM
With right arms, loaded for bear!
Entelechy on October 5, 2007 at 12:06 AM
Allah may be drugged-up right now, but let’s not get carried away…
Rick on October 5, 2007 at 12:06 AM
Bears support arms rights…
doriangrey on October 5, 2007 at 12:09 AM
Support the right of bears to drink the right beer.
MB4 on October 5, 2007 at 12:09 AM
MB4, can’t wait until you retire fully.
Entelechy on October 5, 2007 at 12:11 AM
Support the right of AP to see KP bare.
MB4 on October 5, 2007 at 12:12 AM
Entelechy on October 5, 2007 at 12:11 AM
You still have me stumped with CDS or GDS.
MB4 on October 5, 2007 at 12:15 AM
Quick- somebody show this to Romney and Rudy since neither of them quite get it yet. Both believe that only politically correct guns without certain cosmetic features are protected from federal bans even though they’re exactly the types of weapons that the 2nd Amendment was designed to protect.
The 2nd Amendment wasn’t written just so people could have deer rifles.
Hollowpoint on October 5, 2007 at 12:17 AM
CDS/GDS – Clinton/Giuliani Derangement Syndrome
Entelechy on October 5, 2007 at 12:19 AM
allah, you should post these radio clips from Giuliani:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/10/04/us/politics/20071005_RADIO_AUDIO2.html
Vincenzo on October 5, 2007 at 12:20 AM
Good article. Glad to see an uppercase Liberal apply Occam’s razor for a change.
RD on October 5, 2007 at 12:22 AM
Cool! Screw bear season; I can claim self-defense, shoot the bear and free gun to boot!
Hollowpoint on October 5, 2007 at 12:25 AM
Entelechy, is CDS contagious? Should I get a vaccination or something?
Because I sure as hell don’t want to be as deranged as she is.
Harpazo on October 5, 2007 at 12:25 AM
What else to say but
Da Bears…..
bbz123 on October 5, 2007 at 12:30 AM
Welcome to adulthood, glad you could join us.
Tony737 on October 5, 2007 at 12:32 AM
The Second Amendment insures all the other Amendments remain in effect. I believe this is etched somewhere in my brain, it’s become a knee jerk reaction every time I hear someone discuses the right to bear arms, or was it the right to arm bears?
KCtheKat on October 5, 2007 at 12:39 AM
No, you should fight so we don’t have to suffer from/through it.
Entelechy on October 5, 2007 at 12:46 AM
Methinks you missed the punchline, E. ;-)
Harpazo on October 5, 2007 at 12:51 AM
Light to beer alms.
AZCON on October 5, 2007 at 12:51 AM
Was it high, was it low,
Where the frack did that one go?
As those Caissons go rolling along
Was it left, was it right,
Now we won’t get our beer tonight
And those Caissons go rolling along.
Then it’s hi! hi! hee!
In the field artillery,
Shout out your numbers loud and strong,
For where’er you go,
You will always know
That the Caissons go rolling along.
MB4 on October 5, 2007 at 1:06 AM
Take a quick look at who’s running this place, is there any less reason now than then to fear the government?
Station a Police officer on every street corner and your safety is not guaranteed, you have the right to save yourself.
Speakup on October 5, 2007 at 1:08 AM
Turley still only gets it half right. If that.
From the article:” …an individual right is created.“.
No. No. No.
No right is created, it is onlyrecognised.
Still, The Founders were correct. Good idea to put it in writing.
————————————————————-
“Firearms stand next in importance to the Constition itself.
They are the American people’s Liberty Teeth, and Keystone of Independence.From the time the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove, that to insure peace,security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensible.Firearms deserve a place of honor with all that is good.”
G.Washington
soundingboard on October 5, 2007 at 1:12 AM
*Constit-U-tion.
(even WITH preview!)
soundingboard on October 5, 2007 at 1:14 AM
many feared the federal government and its national army. Gun ownership was viewed as a deterrent against abuse by the government, which would be less likely to mess with a well-armed populace.
Speakup on October 5, 2007 at 1:08 AM
They could use some of that in Burma right now.
Support the right to arm Monks.
MB4 on October 5, 2007 at 1:15 AM
doriangrey on October 5, 2007 at 1:16 AM
hah
soundingboard on October 5, 2007 at 1:17 AM
Excellent!
soundingboard on October 5, 2007 at 1:18 AM
Harpazo, I didn’t miss it. I smiled reading it.
It’s o/t, but in the Dobson thread today MB4 said “Rudy or Hillary – 6 of one, 5.9 of the other.”
To that I replied “…one more biiiiiig difference, CDS or GDS. I prefer the latter.”, meaning that I’d rather that Rudy be in.
doriangrey, great contribution of quotes, thanks
Entelechy on October 5, 2007 at 1:23 AM
I have a thing for things that our founding father said. Sometimes I am fortunate enough to find a place to quote them…
doriangrey on October 5, 2007 at 1:33 AM
Turlet is a liberal douche with nothing but contempt for the constitution, who has been spoiled by decades of liberal Federal judges trashing it.
He now sees a more conservative SCOTUS preparing to rule on the obvious constitutionality of gun ownership, and must scramble to belatedly claim that he does, in fact, know what the constitution says, so that he can avoid having Roberts, Scalia, et al make him look like … a liberal douche.
Too late, Jonny.
Jaibones on October 5, 2007 at 1:38 AM
I always wondered what the words “shall not be infringed” meant. I guess that means no law shall be enacted that restrict the “right of the people to keep and bear arms”. Who knew? Anybody that ever read Jefferson or who was not a communist.
Zelsdorf Ragshaft on October 5, 2007 at 1:38 AM
Couple more for ya.
Patrick Henry…The great object is that every man be armed, all who are able may have a gun.
Richard Henry “Lighthorse Harry” Lee…To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.
soundingboard on October 5, 2007 at 1:40 AM
Heh heh heh yea, he pretty much admitted that himself…
doriangrey on October 5, 2007 at 1:42 AM
And the hits just keep on coming!
soundingboard on October 5, 2007 at 1:42 AM
The First Amendment is the mouth.
The Second Amendment is the teeth.
The former gets chewed up without the latter.
profitsbeard on October 5, 2007 at 1:43 AM
Way cool, our founding father were some pretty amazingly smart guys. They may not have always gotten it right but they sure got it right most of the time.
doriangrey on October 5, 2007 at 1:43 AM
Can’t remember where I read this, (the late Col. Cooper’s column?) but thought it was a pretty good quote itself.
“Places where the government controls all implements of coercive force are called Police States.
soundingboard on October 5, 2007 at 1:47 AM
Agreed. And what I wanna know is, what happened in the intervening years?
soundingboard on October 5, 2007 at 1:50 AM
HA is on fiyah tonight.
soundingboard on October 5, 2007 at 1:56 AM
Patrick Henry- on the individual’s Right to own and bear arms:
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force you are ruined.”
profitsbeard on October 5, 2007 at 1:56 AM
Libs see the Constitution as “living”, therefore it is mortal. And mortals die. So they are accelerating the inevitable, probably seeing it as a justified euthanasia. More likely, they recognize that the first amendment is a vulnerability, so they see this as assisted suicide. Either way, they are trying to kill the Constitution and replace it with a future socialist writ.
stonemeister on October 5, 2007 at 1:57 AM
From an article I read here:
I do not own a firearm. It was not a family tradition with me, but I do understand the constitution. It was put there to make sure the government did not get so much power that it could control the populous, and to make sure that a person could defend against criminals.
But now we are here, with an out of control government that nobody can defend there selves against, because the government is to powerful.
What do learn boys and girls?
The government, run by politicians, is not for the people by the people anymore.
Politicians, by their actions. have become criminals(do not make me make a list…please give your own input)
Criminals do not follow laws
PS – Listen to Walton and Johnson
lsutiger on October 5, 2007 at 1:59 AM
Way cool, our founding father were some pretty amazingly smart guys. They may not have always gotten it right but they sure got it right most of the time.
doriangrey on October 5, 2007 at 1:43 AM
Mort Sahl noted that when we had a population of only several million, we produced leaders like Washington, Adams, Hamilton, Jefferson. Now with 300 million population, we have corrupt liars like Bush, Kerry, Hillary, Kyl, Lott, Graham, Reid, Pelosi …. the list is almost endless.
- JAM (speaking during shamnasty time)
MB4 on October 5, 2007 at 2:00 AM
The inevitable lust for corruption and power for power’s sake.
W&J Rule! Highly recommended.
techno_barbarian on October 5, 2007 at 2:04 AM
One of my favorites:
Speakup on October 5, 2007 at 3:15 AM
An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger.
- Confucius
MB4 on October 5, 2007 at 3:19 AM
When Muslims and/or other fascists come to take the Liberals children and wives away, they will flee to the ‘oddball’ who subscribed to Outdoor Life and other subversive literature. And he will be there for them.
pat on October 5, 2007 at 3:31 AM
I’ve been following the Heller case since it reached the Appeals court. It makes for some interesting reading and anyone who has access to Westlaw or Lexis should check it out. The Cited for the Appeals Court is: Parker v. District of Columbia, 478 f.3d 370. (The name was recently changed for standing purposes).
This case has the ability to be the Brown v. Board of Education for the 2nd Amendment and with the Roberts’s Court I’m hopeful. If SCOTUS agrees to hear the case expect a judgement around July of ‘08. Just in time for the 2008 elections. Should make for some interesting commentary. Expect the MSM to chime in at some point, it’ll be impossible to ignore if SCOTUS agrees to hear it.
By the way, you did get my email about this a few weeks ago didn’t you Allah?
Meric1837 on October 5, 2007 at 4:05 AM
By the way, the District of Columbia hasn’t issued a gun license (handgun, long-gun or otherwise) since 1976; and just for fun, check the city who’s among the highest (2nd) in the nation for murder. Here’s a guess, it’s not my Oklahoma City.
Meric1837 on October 5, 2007 at 4:10 AM
The Second Amendment is the Peoples reset button on the Constitution
mrfixit on October 5, 2007 at 4:21 AM
One of my discussion points about the Second Amendment has always been, “The people mentioned in the Second Amendment are the same ones mentioned in the other amendments in the Bill of Rights. Try rewording the other amendments so that only police or military have the right of assembly, worship, redress of grievances, etc. You have to conclude that the Second Amendment only acknowledges an individual right, not a right of some military or police group.”
Texas Nick 77 on October 5, 2007 at 5:24 AM
Every serious research of the second amendment comes to the conclusion put forward by the author, as well as the fact that it is a federally guaranteed and controlled right, not a state issue.
The liberal supreme court of 1938 (if I remember the date correctly) got it completely wrong.
The libs stop reading when they see the word militia since that suits their purpose. There is a good deal more than that. Including other works and letters written by the framers.
dogsoldier on October 5, 2007 at 6:49 AM
Did you guys notice the article’s url:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/10/a-liberals-lame.html
automated url generation and truncation’s a bitch ain’t it?
zb42 on October 5, 2007 at 7:06 AM
Am purchasing first firearm for home protection. Looking for simple, basic, RELIABLE, not too unwieldy, not expensive, easiest to hit target with.
Thinking of 12 gauge Remington 870 or 1100, or Mossberg 500 shotgun with 00Buck. Any suggestions?
Is it OK/Legal/Smart/Possible to buy online? If so, any suggestions?
JiangxiDad on October 5, 2007 at 7:46 AM
Good grief! I didn’t know Turley had it in him.
This is the part that’s best:
petefrt on October 5, 2007 at 8:36 AM
All the shotguns you listed are good for home defense, but drop the 00 buckshot, it’s a legal liability. There are frangible rounds out now for shotguns that are made of compressed materials that have the stopping power of 00 buck, but will not over-penetrate walls, and will almost eliminate the over-eager procecutor’s claim of over-reaching deadly force.
You can buy shotguns online and have it shipped to a licensed dealer for you, but it’s “Caveat Emptor” on used ones.
By the way, practice loading (dummy shells, never live ones), cycling the action, and operating the safety with your eyes closed until you can do it comfortably. If you ever need it, it probably will be in the dead of night, wih no lights on for you to look at what you’re doing. Go hunting rabbits and birds, using one is the best practice.
El Cazador on October 5, 2007 at 8:50 AM
This is a very well-written and thought out article. For the people blaming our tragedy here at Virginia Tech on passive gun laws, remember that if my student who was brutally slain in his dorm room by a deranged lunatic had been allowed to carry his weapon, he may be alive still today along with 31 other innocent people. In fact, if only one person in either of those classrooms had been armed, how many lives would have been saved? My wife and I sleep a little better at night knowing that if some person comes into our house uninvited, he is not leaving under his own power. What happened where I worked will NOT happen where I live. I only wish I could carry at work.
LarryinVA on October 5, 2007 at 8:52 AM
If you’re going to go with a shotgun, I recommend using #7 shot instead of 00. As A friend (Retired special forces Army Colonel with 2 tours in Vietnam) explained to me, “The #7 doesn’t go through them and make a huge mess in your house, and if they live, hopefully they won’t get all the shot out and lead poisoning will set in.”
Made sense to me. :-)
Kowboy on October 5, 2007 at 8:57 AM
Also remember that in Australia, the party currently in power became “pro gun” during the recent years. After being elected, they immediately imposed strict gun control.
Don’t be mislead by political groups who are ardently opposed to guns ’seeing the light’. They didn’t. They are trying to woo you. Don’t fall for it.
Remember also that most of the media on the Left is a coordinated action. Soros, et. al. have themes that they run on and work simultaneously. Remember the e-mails from Kos’ people about “highlighting” certain events and “not paying attention” to others? They coordinate their messages.
I don’t think this article is a person changing this position. I think it is the tip of an intentional lie in order to soften conservatives criticism of the left.
When pro-gun laws that cannot be repealed are passed, then I will believe their change of heart.
_Jon on October 5, 2007 at 9:01 AM
If all leftists start coming to this same realization as Turley, we can finally hold off on that last Constitutional amendment:
angryoldfatman on October 5, 2007 at 9:13 AM
My first question would be; How familiar with firearms are you?
Not in the technical sense (you obviously know your shotguns!) but in the practical sense? Are you a shooter? Were you raised with guns? In short, do you have previous experience with the arms you’re considering?
Next, are you going to be the only user? Are you married? If so, will your spouse be using it if you’re not home when the balloon goes up? Can she handle the weapon you have in mind?
Then, where do you live? Not specifically, of course, but are you a city dweller or in the countryside? How far away are you anticipating having to engage a target? Will it be primarily indoors or possibly outdoors? If the latter, will you be mainly concerned with what Col. Cooper referred to as “goblins”, or are four-footed interlopers a potential problem? If so, how big might they be? (And are some of them, like bears or cougars, a nominally protected species?)
As a general rule, I tend to recommend that those unfamiliar with firearms begin with a .22 rifle or pistol, and work up. A 12-gauge shotgun is possibly the most effective close-quarters weapon around, next to a flamethrower (ask any Marine), but the small-statured or recoil-sensitive are probably better served with the lighter-recoiling but still effective 20-gauge. Either one can be loaded with buckshot, slugs, or small shot (No. 6 or 7), as the need arises.
Inside the house, a good double-action revolver in .357 Magnum is probably more practical than the shotgun, in that there’s less length out front for an intruder to try to grab. (A wrestling match with a housebreaker is emphatically not funny.) While the .357 is “famed” for blast, flash and recoil, I have found that most motivated people can be taught to hit with it consistently with less training than most other centerfire calibers. For those who just can’t handle the .357 loads, any .357 can also chamber and fire .38 Special, which is still a serious defensive caliber with the right loads.
Automatics in 9mm, .40, and .45 are good choices as well (my personal sidearm is a 9mm P-35 High Power), but they do require more concentrated and focused training. The DA revolver is as near to an “instinctive-use” defensive arm as has yet been devised.
If local regulations prohibit pistols, but the shotgun is a bit too much in the recoil department, don’t overlook the various lever-action carbines in pistol calibers like .357, .44 Magnum, or even the old .45 Colt, .44-40, or .38-40. They may have been around for a century or more, but they are both effective and relatively easy to handle. (As well as not possessing looks that alarm hoplophobic officials.)
And going back to the urban/rural question, any isolated homestead should have a centerfire rifle capable of accurate aimed fire out to 300 yards. (A decent, telescopic-sighted “deer rifle” is all you really need for that.)
For the record, yes, I used to be a police firearms instructor. A long time ago.
(Sorry for the length of this post, but this question could not be answered in a short or easy way.)
cheers
eon
eon on October 5, 2007 at 9:15 AM
Thanks.
JiangxiDad on October 5, 2007 at 9:17 AM
Thanks as well. Live in suburbs of NYC in tract house. Indoor, home protection use only. Shot 22 rifle as a kid, 35 years ago. Shot skeet a few times as young adult, but still know little about firearms. Pistol permit necessary where I live, and may try to get one. Thought that since I can buy a shotgun w/out one, was my easiest alternative. And my wife wouldn’t want to use it, but would in defense of our young kids. Will keep her size in mind. thank you for the advice.
JiangxiDad on October 5, 2007 at 9:25 AM
I can second that. I just bought my first gun – a .22 semiautomatic handgun. It’s an easy little gun to shoot, and the ammunition is dirt cheap.
Slublog on October 5, 2007 at 9:33 AM
JiangxiDad, You’ve asked the ultimate “loaded” question regarding guns and self defense. I’d recommend you look in the phone book and find about 6 gun stores and go to all 6 of them. You’ll most likely find 3 to 4 that will be very helpful. I’d also recommend looking into a revolver that shots large bullets. Revolvers are like spoons, they work every time you pick them up and use them, and bigger bullets leave bigger holes. It also wouldn’t hurt to take a gun course, or apply for a conceal carry permit with the required training course.
There’s also a lot of on line forums that discuss this subject in great detail. GlockTalk.com is a very large forum that covers a lot of information, and it’s not just about Glocks. You can search GunBroker.com and shop for good prices on all types of gun, they are the eBay of guns. As already mentioned all sales are shipped to a FFL (Federal Firearms License) gun dealer (Gun Store) plus shipping and transfer fees. But most gun stores can get what gunbrokers can get and are willing to work out a good price.. Good luck and keep your powder dry.
KCtheKat on October 5, 2007 at 9:45 AM
JiangxiDad, I’ll tell you what the gun dealer told me. If it’s home protection you’re looking for, get a 12 guage shotgun. Rifle and handgun ammunition has been known to penetrate walls and hit people in other rooms. Shot spreads out and usually has a harder time penetrating walls. Also, if you are in need of your firearm, you can bet it will be late at night when your eyes are not fully functional. Because the shot spreads out, you are more likely to hit your target. I’m no expert, but it did make sense to me. Be safe with whatever you choose, and invest in quality instruction. There are many different laws in different states. For instance, in Ohio you must provide an audible warning that you are armed and give the perp a chance to leave your house. If he doesn’t try to make egress, then you may protect you and your loved-ones while teaching him about the idiocy of invading other people’s space.
LarryinVA on October 5, 2007 at 10:17 AM
Gee, if they keep reading it, wonder what else the libs will find in the Constitution?
Maybe limits on federal powers??? Perhaps a discovery that there are THREE co-equal branches of government???
NAAH!! That alternate-universe thing keeps things from getting too rational in lib-land.
landlines on October 5, 2007 at 10:53 AM
JiangxiDad on October 5, 2007 at 9:25 AM
MNDavenotPC on October 5, 2007 at 11:13 AM
unwieldly …. sheesh, so much for a college education
MNDavenotPC on October 5, 2007 at 11:15 AM
Don’t forget this important piece of work
Ochlan on October 5, 2007 at 11:25 AM
I’ve been thinking about buying a gun for awhile now. Frankly, it was one of your posts about your students that finally tipped the balance. Thanks you.
And thanks too MNDavenotPC. (Hope you are not the only NOT PC person left in MN).
JiangxiDad on October 5, 2007 at 11:32 AM
(Hope you are not the only NOT PC person left in MN).
JiangxiDad on October 5, 2007 at 11:32 AM
No, I’m not….. we keep our numbers secret. We have a big surprise!! Course, we’re patient as all get out, this state is solid “blue” lol
MNDavenotPC on October 5, 2007 at 11:37 AM
My heavywieght home security solution is a Mossberg 500 12ga pump with a pistol grip and top-folding stock. Short, maneuverable, powerful.
Ochlan on October 5, 2007 at 11:53 AM
I believe you are referring to the 1939 United States vs. Miller. which both should have and would have been overturned upon appeal had Miller not died.
doriangrey on October 5, 2007 at 11:59 AM
PS. When I bought my Mossy, it came in a pistol-grip-only configuration (no stock – I had to upgrade it myself)….funny thing is that it has the official nickname “Persuader”
Yep…slamming 00 through it persuades me ;-)
Ochlan on October 5, 2007 at 12:00 PM
Frangible round are a really good idea whether for shotgun or pistol. Since they do nearly the same damage to the human body as a lead or full metal jacked round but are extremely unlikely to penetrate walls and harm innocent bystanders afterwards. Responsibility is the key issue with gun ownership. You want to defend yourself and your family, but not harm any innocent person while doing so.
doriangrey on October 5, 2007 at 12:29 PM
Now that the individual vs. collective right question is settled, can we move on to what we mean by ‘arms’?
There is pretty much an agreement that handguns and shotguns are ‘arms’ in the sense of 2nd Amendment protection. Similarly, I should have no problems when I walk around with a scimitar or a mace strapped to my side. But how about bigger arms? Can the gummint abridge my right to keep a howitzer? A mortar? How ’bout a nuclear-armed cruise missile?
After all, these days, when terrorists can commandeer airplanes and fly them into buildings killing innocent people, having a shoulder-launched surface-to-air missile handy is a legitimate means of self-defense.
Also, one of the key arguments for the Second Amendment is that an armed public can keep the Government in check. But rebels carrying 9mm Glocks are not a very good deterrent to an evil dictator, should one ever become President, given that the evil dictator at that point would have ICBMs at his command, so the need for privately-owned nukes is a key issue for protecting liberty.
So if you are for the Second Amendment, yet you don’t think I have a right to keep my nuclear warheads in my garage, then please explain me how you can reconcile those two positions.
Thanks, guys.
factoid on October 5, 2007 at 1:58 PM
Well, Duuhhh! This guy’s pretty dumb if he has to spell it out to this degree, or his readers are pretty dumb (in his view).
I certainly hope he doesn’t teach Constitutional law.
Miss_Anthrope on October 5, 2007 at 2:25 PM
May I suggest a .380 Auto or a good .38 caliber revolver? Lightweight and don’t kick real hard. Easy for women to use and has the stopping power necessary in close quarters.
I still prefer the shotgun because of the spread, but she would probably be safer with something she’s comfortable with.
Kowboy on October 5, 2007 at 2:45 PM
I know you already got your advice about what you should get from eon, but thought I’d give you the “little woman” perspective.
If you do buy a shotgun, I can shoot a 12-guage no problem. There is kick, so you may want to identify a closet (or other spot) with direct line to the front door but won’t take out the neighbors. She can get the kids behind her & keep her eye on the door, kneeling or leaning into the weapon. (Had to do that once…she just can’t panic!)
If you buy a handgun, I do recommend a revolver. Too much focus is required to use a semi sometimes, and it’s not necessarily more accurate. The higher your caliber (esp. up ~357/38), avoid snub-nosed or lightweight (if must choose, then no lightweight!) if you can help it. Hubby, knowing nothing of guns, bought me a 38 snub-nosed airlight (titanium). I told him he could’ve at least avoided titanium! But mine’s for concealed permit.
You know this, but get the family trained & really familiar with it by going shooting as much as you can. I’ve been around ‘em my whole life…knowledge, coupled with the “fear of Dad” factor if they are EVER touched w/o your approval (and a good safe – you can lock ‘em up when not home), are good bets you’ll have no problems.
Miss_Anthrope on October 5, 2007 at 2:46 PM
It’s is true what you were told…best home defense is the 12-guage. No need to aim compared w/handgun.
Miss_Anthrope on October 5, 2007 at 2:49 PM
A nuclear warhead isn’t an individual weapon. An AR-15 is.
Hollowpoint on October 5, 2007 at 3:39 PM
Most home defense situations occur at very short range- like 10 feet. At that range the shot barely has time to spread, so a shotgun has to be aimed as if it were a rifle.
Hollowpoint on October 5, 2007 at 3:42 PM
Frangible rounds shouldn’t be relied on- they lack the ability to penetrate suffiently. Virtually any round capable of sufficient penetration is going to have the potential to penetrate a sheetrock wall should you miss your target.
In a pistol, use JHP defense rounds unless it’s a smaller caliber like .32ACP. In a shotgun 00 buck is overkill; #7 bird shot is too small. Something close to #4 buck is a good compromise.
Hollowpoint on October 5, 2007 at 3:55 PM
The 2A refers to “arms”, not merely ‘individual weapons’. All manner of weapons are ‘arms’ – grenade/rocket launchers, mounted auto cannon, missiles. Although the FFs likely had personal arms primarily in mind, the possession of cannons was important to the militia too, and was similarly protected.
They could hardly be expected to imagine weapons as powerful as nukes, but arms they are too…so _yes_, as noodle-baking as it may sound to many, you have the _right_ to possess nukes.
Now go try exercising that right. Walk down to WalMart or your local Nuke store. Having problems obtaining one? How about panning for U235 (or whatever your fissile material of favor is) in the river? Not finding convenient clods of nuke material lying around? Damn.
Nukes are extremely complex and expensive things to make. The kind of expense that only nation states can bear. Maybe Bill Gates could afford one.
But hang on…what about that annoying “well regulated” part of the 2A? Doesn’t that legitimize legislation regarding the safe storage, maintenance and deployment of nukes? Methinks it does. Now the expense has just escalated phenomenally…secure silos, armed guards, launch protocols, shielding…yada yada yada.
My allowance won’t stretch that far.
But it’s nice to know I have the _right_
I’ll buy a $300 Mossy instead…
Ochlan on October 5, 2007 at 4:00 PM
Frangible rounds are a great idea with many useful tactical applications, but I would hesitate to recommend them for home defense.
My general rule of thumb is – if the ammo is legally defensible for cops, I’ll consider it.
I don’t know of cops that carry frangible routinely…or use it at home. (as an aside, I think that concealed carry on planes should be legal, and that airlines should insist that armed passengers load up with frangible during the flight – pre flight weapon check)
Massad Ayoob has written volumes on this subject, and he’s my Oracle of choice ;-)
Ochlan on October 5, 2007 at 4:10 PM
Frangible or pre-fragmented rounds (like Glaser or Magsafe) would also be my choice for indoor defense precisely because they won’t overpenetrate as much as any sort of conventional projectile. they also have generally good characteristics from a wound-ballistics standpoint. I’ve never fired them, or anything else, at a person, but I’ve “killed” a lot of blocks of ballistic gelatin in testing various ammunition going back thirty years, and the Glaser/Magsafe-type loads generally outperform the conventional expanding-type bullets (hollowpoints, etc.) in the “making large, nasty holes” department.
My personal problem with frangibles is that, depending on the exact shape and size of the “bullet profile” (external shape of the projectile) they may or may not feed reliably in any sort of self-loading arm. My old trick with the Glaser in a 9mm or .45 was to have one in the chamber in Condition One carry (cocked-and-locked), backed up by a magazine of conventional hollowpoints. But I don’t really like Condition One for a “house gun”, especially with children in the home.
Of course, in a double-action revolver, the shape of the bullet doesn’t matter. And a 5-or-6-shot cylinder of .357 or even .38 frangible loads is virtually guaranteed to convince a would-be “home invader” of the folly of his enterprise.
cheers
eon
eon on October 5, 2007 at 6:31 PM
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