If Islam isn’t an ideology, how can there be various ideologies held by it’s adherents?

DaveS allow me to put this in the most simple terms so that even you can understand it. Islam is a religion founded on immutable theological foundations. Mohammed defined Islamic holy law over a thousand years before you were born. If Muslims do no not adhere to the tenets of Islam then they are not “adherents”. If there are so many radically differing interpretations of Islam then name a few and please specify in which particular aspects they depart from one another. I tried to give you a head start with Sufi mysticism but according to other commenters I was reaching to some extent.

LOL

How serenditious for me.. Here’s a news story FROM TODAY about Muslims chucking Thanksgiving right out the window… just like the Website I posted

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=0821a06b-a34d-4e76-aaf9-b3015c1a37bb&k=66020

Mosque says to avoid Western holidays
‘Thanksgiving Out’
Stewart Bell, National Post
Published: Wednesday, October 03, 2007
TORONTO – A Toronto mosque is telling Muslims not to say “Happy Thanksgiving” or invite friends into their homes for turkey dinner on the holiday weekend.

The Khalid Bin Al-Walid Mosque says to “avoid participating” in dinners, parties or greetings on Thanksgiving because it is a kuffaar, or non-Muslim, celebration.

A two-part article on the mosque Web site says Muslims should also “stay completely away” from “Halloween trick-and treat nonsense,” Christmas, New Year’s, anniversaries, birthdays and Earth Day.

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Font:****”How can we bring ourselves to congratulate or wish people well for their disobedience to Allah? Thus expressions such as:Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Birthday, Happy New Year, etc, are completely out,” it says.

In 2003, the Khalid mosque, which mainly serves the Toronto Somali-Canadian community, apologized for a newsletter that compared wishing someone a Merry Christmas to congratulating a murderer.

At the time, a junior employee was blamed for the slight, but the mosque’s Web site has since posted similar edicts covering not only Christmas but also virtually every other Western celebration.

Muslims who participate in the holidays are termed ignorant and hypocritical.

While not all are religious holidays, the Internet site says Muslims are required to be different from non-Muslims “in matters which are representative of them or are characteristic of their identity.”

Also banned, it says, are: watching sports or soap operas, walking dogs, family photos, wedding bands, Western hats, mingling and shaking hands with the opposite sex.

“Allah and his messenger have warned us against following or imitating non-Muslims in things which are characteristic of their religion or beliefs. This is more emphasized in the case of their eids [festivals] or occasions, which always hold some religious or ideological non-Islamic meanings, and on which the kuffaar indulge in many evil practices.”

The Web site also has a question-and-answer section, which advises that Muslims can join political parties only if they are “able to exert some influence on the direction of the party so that it will take an Islamic direction.”

Elsewhere in the Q&A section, it says that, “with strong determination and patience, the world will God-willing be under the Muslims’ control.”

The mosque is run by a federally registered charity. Rival factions within the Somali Muslim community are fighting in court for control of the charity. The mosque president could not be reached yesterday.

We could take up a collection…

I tried giving DaveS 2 cents but he expelled me from the country.

(Typing this from a dinghy off the coast of Belize among a flotilla of anti-semitic jellyfish.)

MB4 on October 2, 2007 at 11:10 PM

Like Shooter and other clear thinking conservatives, I could not agree more with your post.

Do not let people like DaveS get you down. It is obvious he has not taken the time and effort to read the Quoran and is a Dhimmi just like GWB thinking that Islam is the Religion of peace.

We could take up collection for him to pay the Jizya tax under Surah Tauba 9:29 to avoid having his head removed from the head choppers.

No… that’s how a random guy on some website respects the holidays of other people. Furthermore, it sounds, oddly, like you are suggesting that we adopt a more Islamic attitude toward other faiths, as described at that website.

In related news, this is how Christians respect other people! It’s right there on a website, and is therefore inarguable!

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 11:21 AM

You reveal you know as much about Islam as you do Christianity. Which is very little.

If your position is that Islam instructs its followers to tolerate the religious holidays of other faiths it’s on you to prove that.

I won’t hold my breath

This thread was really weird.
Entelechy on October 3, 2007 at 2:51 AM

Indeed.
The longest most deceitful rant by a drunken mooslem to be sure. One of our posters? I wont name names.…but if islam was so great, why aren’t the muslims standing up against TERROR. If you have to stop and think to come up with at least six of them… ….well? They( mo followers) must condone it, or they believe in their cult religion to the point they agree with it at some level. They DO want islam to rule the world.
Islam – It is a death cult.
I will stand w/ MB4 and be firm in my knowledge that the islamic religion (really it’s an occult gov’t) is what MB4 posted above – MB4 on October 2, 2007 at 11:10 PM-
.
Any one with knowledge of thousands or even hundreds of muslims condemning the islamic terrorists, please let me know where and who they are.
.
Islam declared war on us ( all non-muslims), and has done so repeatedly for over 1300 years. That is FACT.
.
We ARE at war with ISLAM. Islam IS the EVIL in this world.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 11:21 AM

Heh. The point you’re missing here, Dave, is that the actions of the Phelps church can’t be justified via the scriptures. Those people are nothing but an, ugly, hateful, hell-bound cult.

However, the actions of the Jihadis can very much be explained by the Koran. Heck, the Koran is their best recruiting tool (and not because they twist the passages either; the interpretations they use are very much mainstream).

Maxx on October 2, 2007 at 11:19 PM

You’re absolutely right, Maxx. Unfortunately, it’s painfully clear to me after reading this thread that many of the “enlightened” conservative here still don’t get it. It’s sad and depressing.

Wake up, people.

Yeah, terrific, Tanc. Spit on all the Iraqi soldiers who are fighting Al Qaeda with us. Good stuff.

Allahpundit on October 2, 2007 at 10:39 PM

Refusing to vote yes on that resolution is “spitting” on all Muslims?! Allah, you’ve flipped your turban!

Here is how Muslims respect the holidays of other people.

No… that’s how a random guy on some website respects the holidays of other people. Furthermore, it sounds, oddly, like you are suggesting that we adopt a more Islamic attitude toward other faiths, as described at that website.

In related news, this is how Christians respect other people! It’s right there on a website, and is therefore inarguable!

I presume you meant to write “theologically diverse”. After all if it isn’t an ideology how can there be ideological differences? (Duh.)

Seriously? This is a problem I’ve noted before, but commenters here lack a very basic understanding of simple logical rules, which should be intuitively understood by most people.

If ice cream isn’t a flavor, how can there be different flavors?

If tires aren’t a size, how can there be different sizes?

If Americans aren’t Asian people, how can there be American’s who are Asian?

If computers aren’t Dells, how can there be Dell computers?

If Islam isn’t an ideology, how can there be various ideologies held by it’s adherents? Well, I think that’s obvious, but, then again, I have an intuitive grasp of simple logical relationships, so maybe I have a genetic advantage over you… I don’t know, but I’m sure you can figure it out.

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&QR=947

Question:
Can a muslim celebrate a non muslim holiday like Thanksgiving?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Greeting the kuffaar on Christmas and other religious holidays of theirs is haraam, by consensus, as Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah: “Congratulating the kuffaar on the rituals that belong only to them is haraam by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals and fasts by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on. If the one who says this has been saved from kufr, it is still forbidden. It is like congratulating someone for prostrating to the cross, or even worse than that. It is as great a sin as congratulating someone for drinking wine, or murdering someone, or having illicit sexual relations, and so on. Many of those who have no respect for their religion fall into this error; they do not realize the offensiveness of their actions. Whoever congratulates a person for his disobedience or bid’ah or kufr exposes himself to the wrath and anger of Allaah.”

Congratulating the kuffaar on their religious festivals is haraam to the extent described by Ibn al-Qayyim because it implies that one accepts or approves of their rituals of kufr, even if one would not accept those things for oneself. But the Muslim should not aceept the rituals of kufr or congratulate anyone else for them, because Allaah does not accept any of that at all, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“If you disbelieve, then verily, Allaah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. . .”
[al-Zumar 39:7]

“. . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . .”
[al-Maa’idah 5:3]

So congratulating them is forbidden, whether they are one’s colleagues at work or otherwise.

If they greet us on the occasion of their festivals, we should not respond, because these are not our festivals, and because they are not festivals which are acceptable to Allaah. These festivals are innovations in their religions, and even those which may have been prescribed formerly have been abrogated by the religion of Islaam, with which Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to the whole of mankind. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

It is haraam for a Muslim to accept invitations on such occasions, because this is worse than congratulating them as it implies taking part in their celebrations.

Similarly, Muslims are forbidden to imitate the kuffaar by having parties on such occasions, or exchanging gifts, or giving out sweets or food, or taking time off work, etc., because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah said in his book Iqtidaa’ al-siraat al-mustaqeem mukhaalifat ashaab al-jaheem: “Imitating them in some of their festivals implies that one is pleased with their false beliefs and practices, and gives them the hope that they may have the opportunity to humiliate and mislead the weak.”

Whoever does anything of this sort is a sinner, whether he does it out of politeness or to be friendly, or because he is too shy to refuse, or for whatever other reason, because this is hypocrisy in Islaam, and because it makes the kuffaar feel proud of their religion.

Allaah is the One Whom we ask to make the Muslims feel proud of their religion, to help them adhere steadfastly to it, and to make them victorious over their enemies, for He is the Strong and Omnipotent.

There is no excuse for voting against this.

The Republicans have a MAJOR image problem because of crap like this.

DaveS on October 2, 2007 at 10:47 PM

There is no excuse for having a vote on this in the first place. I feel the same way about the Christmas one as well.

I know muslims (secular, I assume) in my community who seem to be wonderful people. But I don’t feel the need to wish them a happy Ramadan because their religion sucks, and the rest of you know it. And don’t come back at me with nonsense about the Jews or Christianity, because it’s insulting when you try to equate the religious text or the actions of Muslims to these two great faiths.

Dork B. on October 3, 2007 at 6:27 AM

I always point out that just because someone goes a church doesn’t mean that they listen. I’m sure we all know fundamentalist Christians who couldn’t tell you the names of the four gospels. They same is true for Islam. You can to mosque every Friday, but not pay attention to a word said. You could then appear to be both a decent person and a devout muslim, but exactly how are you a muslim if I don’t know what the Koran and the Hadith say? (For that matter, how are you a fundamentalist Christian, if you can’t name the four gospels?)

You’re wrong that there are a couple of violent strains followed by Islamic sects. The mainstream Islamic texts exhort violence against the kufr (unbelievers), all Muslims follow the hadith (the life of Mohammed, the perfect man) for emulation. This is one sect that don’t follow these teachings literally, Sufis. That’s it.
aengus on October 3, 2007 at 7:53 AM

I wouldn’t trust the Sufis. Read up on their history. I would trust the The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement movement to act ok.

This is one sect that don’t follow these teachings literally, Sufis.- aengus

The Sufi branch of Islam has enjoyed spectacularly good press in the West. Hailed as peaceful mystics who believe jihad is a spiritual quest, nothing violent or unpleasant, Sufism has attracted favorable attention and converts from all sorts of Westerners, from new agers in Marin County, California, to East Coast intellectuals. But Sufis are not necessarily all peace-loving meditative seekers of the divine.
The formation of the “The Sufi Jihadi Squadrons of Shaykh ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani” in Iraq was recently announced at the jihadist website, “Jihad Unspun”. The Al-Gilani (d.1166) after whom they are named was in fact a Hanbali Sufi.

Sufi jihadists”(?)—a “Hanbali Sufi”(??)—haven’t we been lectured at great length about the singular evils of “Wahhabism” —rooted in the Hanbali school of Muslim jurisprudence, epitomized by Ibn Taymiyya (d. 1328)—versus its Islamic “antithesis”, the ecumenical tradition of mystical Sufism???

Notwithstanding the musings of a Muslim journalist and neo-convert from Bolshevism to Sufi Islam (see his bizarre and treacly “profession of faith” here, and a clinical description of what this newly described syndrome represents), Sufism has been linked integrally to the Muslim institution of jihad war since the 11th century C.E.

Consistent with this nexus between Sufism and orthodox Islam, Sufis have supported (fervently) the corollary institution of dhimmitude, replete with all its oppressive and humiliating regulations for non-Muslims. It is also important to highlight, in contrast, the very flimsy theological foundation of the much ballyhooed Sufi notion of the so-called “greater” spiritual jihad. Even the Islamophilic scholar Reuven Firestone has acknowledged the dubious nature of the hadith ostensibly outlining this potential interpretation of jihad: [1]

Dr. Bostom presents the rest at The American Thinker.

Is it just me, or does anybody else wish these freaking morons in BOTH houses would quit wasting my money and time on s%#t like this and various other resolutions condemning or praising whatever the flavor of the day is????
For Gods sake, do the job we sent you there to do, or go the hell home.

commonsensehoosier on October 2, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Is it just me, or does anybody else wish these freaking morons in BOTH houses would quit wasting my money and time on s%#t like this and various other resolutions condemning or praising whatever the flavor of the day is????
For Gods sake, do the job we sent you there to do, or go the hell home.

there…fixed it for ya.

Well, first of all, Islam is not an ideology. It is a religion. Like all religions, it has various ideologically diverse “sects”. Unfortunately, Islam has a couple of very assertive, violent strains that are part of the cause of the problem.

I presume you meant to write “theologically diverse”. After all if it isn’t an ideology how can there be ideological differences? (Duh.)

You’re wrong that there are a couple of violent strains followed by Islamic sects. The mainstream Islamic texts exhort violence against the kufr (unbelievers), all Muslims follow the hadith (the life of Mohammed, the perfect man) for emulation.

This is one sect that don’t follow these teachings literally, Sufis. That’s it. Aside from terrorists there are those who pursue jihad through non-violent means (proselytising, financing etc.) Then there are non-observant Muslims who just want to get on with their lives but can cite no justification within the texts of Islam for doing so.

If you can think you can disprove any of this please try. Otherwise consider yourself schooled.

And Congress salutes this Trojan horse. This is what Hitler did wrong. He should have draped Nazism in an islamic religious cloak instead of secularism. But then again, in 1941, we weren’t so PC so it wouldn’t have worked back then.

The only criticism of Tancredo is that he did not vote against it.