Tancredo refuses to vote for House resolution marking commencement of Ramadan

posted at 10:26 pm on October 2, 2007 by Allahpundit

He voted “present,” as did 41 other congressmen. All but one were Republicans.

Sad:

The resolution, “in order to demonstrate solidarity with and support for members of the community of Islam in the United States and throughout the world, the House of Representatives recognizes the Islamic faith as one of the great religions of the world.” It also “acknowledges the onset of Ramadan and expresses its deepest respect to Muslims in the United States and throughout the world on this significant occasion.”…

Shortly after the vote, however, Tancredo issued a press release in which he argued that the resolution shows how political correctness is ruining public discourse.

“This resolution is an example of the degree to which political correctness has captured the political and media elite in this country. I am not opposed to commending any religion for their faith. The problem is that any attempt to do so for Jews or Christians is immediately condemned as ‘breaching’ the non-existent line between Church and State by the same elite,” Tancredo says in his statement.

Here’s a resolution passed on December 15, 2005, expressing the House’s support for the “symbols and traditions” of Christmas — and only Christmas — to repel the left’s alleged secret plot to replace all references to the season with “Happy Holidays.” The measure passed, 401-22. Among those voting yes was Sir Tancelot.


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Comment pages: 1 2

I realize we’re fighting Islamic extremism – not Islam in general. That’s a point that even President Bush has reiterated multiple times. One of the most important people in my life is a Muslim. He’s as pro-American as we are. Am I at war with him?

amerpundit on October 2, 2007 at 11:52 PM

Your Muslim friend might be a great and wonderful person amerpundit, I’m not saying he isn’t. But you and the President are failing to recognize Islam for the evil that it is. Do you not read of the horrors and destruction caused by Islamics everyday ? Do you not know of the slaughter that is going on in Darfur ?

Islam is a murderous death cult, even though not all Muslims participate in jihad, for as long as they adhere to that belief system the potential is there for them to exercise it in the extreme mode. I don’t hate Muslims. I do hate Islam. And we as a nation at war with Islam should not promote it in any way. To promote Islam is to perpetuate the problem.

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 12:11 AM

DaveS-

…or whatever it is that you moonbats seem to think they were saying.

You mean “wingnuts”, not “moonbats”.

And you need to read the Koran.

It is instructive.

profitsbeard on October 3, 2007 at 12:12 AM

wccawa on October 3, 2007 at 12:06 AM

You, sir, should feel very privileged to still have posting privileges here.

I think you think that MB4 was saying that the troops aren’t fighting for us. What MB4 meant to say, I’m sure, is that “Our troops are fighting for the Iraqis, the Iraqis are not fighting for us. The Iraqis are mostly fighting amongst themselves“.

It is a completely irrelevant point to the passage of a resolution simply telling Muslims in the US “Happy Ramadan”, but you misunderstood him(?) nonetheless.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:12 AM

So what you’re saying, basically, is that you are a stricter, more fundamentalist Muslim than most Muslims. Alright, then.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:08 AM

I said nothing of the kind. You seem to have very serious reading comprehension problems.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:13 AM

I think you think that MB4 was saying that the troops aren’t fighting for us. What MB4 meant to say, I’m sure, is that “Our troops are fighting for the Iraqis, the Iraqis are not fighting for us. The Iraqis are mostly fighting amongst themselves“.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:12 AM

I don’t know what wccawa read into/misread what I said, but you appear to have read it right.

Hattip where due. I take back half of what I said about your reading comprehension.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:18 AM

I think you think that MB4 was saying that the troops aren’t fighting for us. What MB4 meant to say, I’m sure, is that “Our troops are fighting for the Iraqis, the Iraqis are not fighting for us. The Iraqis are mostly fighting amongst themselves“.

Our own little Rush Limbaugh moment? Perhaps. Not likely. I imagine he could defend himself if he chose.

But nonetheless, I will dismiss him as I would any other bowel movement. I can sense the tone and content. He’s trolling with poison.

However, the one neat thing about comments is that they remain.

wccawa on October 3, 2007 at 12:19 AM

profitsbeard on October 3, 2007 at 12:12 AM

No, I meant moonbats, because that’s what they sound like.

And you should read the Old Testament/Torah sometime… it is really instructive about how bad those dirty Jews are.

Or, alternatively, you should quit being an ignorant, uneducated, backwoods buffoon who judges people based entirely off of caricatures you read on the internet in your favorite little echo chambers, and realize that most real muslims–who you never meet, of course, while you are busy repeating talking points back and forth with your fake internet friends–don’t hold a completely literal interpretation of the Koran, nor do Jews hold a completely literal interpretation of the Torah.

Of course, for mentioning this, someone will tell me its past my bedtime (they don’t know how to handle simple, obvious realities that get in the way of their simplistically partisan orgies of talking point banter). On this point, for once in their pathetic lives, they are right… it is past my bedtime.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:19 AM

profitsbeard on October 3, 2007 at 12:08 AM

The Bible says we should stone gays. Shall we take up that practice? Does that mean we’re not Christians?

Your Muslim friend might be a great and wonderful person amerpundit, I’m not saying he isn’t. But you and the President are failing to recognize Islam for the evil that it is. Do you not read of the horrors and destruction caused by Islamics everyday ? Do you not know of the slaughter that is going on in Darfur ?

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 12:11 AM

Yes, but anyone with a history book can also read about the atrocities committed by non-Muslims throughout history. Hitler wasn’t Muslim and neither were his fellow Nazis, but he wiped out millions of Jews. As a matter of fact, Hitler and his followers were Christian and were responsible for the wiping out of millions of innocent men, women and children. Does that mean that everyone who shares his religion advocates that behavior?

amerpundit on October 3, 2007 at 12:21 AM

Well, first of all, Islam is not an ideology. It is a religion.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:08 AM

Then we cannot agree. We are polar opposites on this issue. I would argue that Islam is certainly NOT a “religion” but most accurately described as a death cult, I was being kind to call Islam an ideology.

In your own words:

Another part of the problem–it could be argued, at least–is that the vast majority of Muslims are very pacifistic and mind their own business, which makes it very easy for that violent minority to reign over them.

What other “religion” do you know of where a “violent minority” is able to reign over the majority in the name of that same “religion ?” This is not a “religion,” it’s a belief system to destruction much like Nazism. In fact, the Islamic’s joined with the Nazis in WWII, did you know that ?

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 12:23 AM

LGF has the resolution posted, unlike the ABC link which has bits and pieces of it.

Read the ending of it:

Resolved, That—

(1) during this time of conflict, in order to demonstrate solidarity with and support for members of the community of Islam in the United States and throughout the world, the House of Representatives recognizes the Islamic faith as one of the great religions of the world; and

(2) in observance of and out of respect for the commencement of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal, the House of Representatives acknowledges the onset of Ramadan and expresses its deepest respect to Muslims in the United States and throughout the world on this significant occasion.

I’m with Tanc. I’m also glad to note that my representative voted present as well.

It’s a bit more than the title of the bill indicates, “Recognizing the commencement of Ramadan”.

INC on October 3, 2007 at 12:25 AM

I will dismiss him as I would any other bowel movement.

wccawa on October 3, 2007 at 12:19 AM

Real class act there. Real adult too.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:26 AM

Hey INC!

Just ignore my greeting and pretend that you don’t know me.

Trust me on this. I’m looking out for you.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:28 AM

Real class act there. Real adult too.

Actually, that’s the nicest thing anyone has said about me today. Thank you. Good night.

wccawa on October 3, 2007 at 12:29 AM

Yes, but anyone with a history book can also read about the atrocities committed by non-Muslims throughout history. Hitler wasn’t Muslim and neither were his fellow Nazis, but he wiped out millions of Jews. As a matter of fact, Hitler and his followers were Christian and were responsible for the wiping out of millions of innocent men, women and children. Does that mean that everyone who shares his religion advocates that behavior?

amerpundit on October 3, 2007 at 12:21 AM

Oh amerpundit, I am disappointed with you. I can’t believe you have bought into the liberal lie that Hitler was a Christian. That is as far from the truth as anything can be.

While the left constantly derides Christianity as intolerant, the opposite is true, Christianity is a wellspring of tolerance. American was indeed founded as a Christian nation and it still is a Christian nation. Every theism in the world can be found here and we all reside together in relative harmony. You can be an atheist, or any religion for that matter and live well in America. You don’t need to be concerned about a loud knock in the middle of the night and being imprisoned or killed for your particular belief.

That is not true where atheist are the majority and atheism has become the state’s religion. Where the state has become God, there is no room for competition. China is one example of this today, but there are many. And looking to history, we find this:

LIFE IN THE THIRD REICH: 1933-1937

Not many Germans lost much sleep over the arrests of a few thousand pastors and priests or over the quarreling of the various Protestant sects. And even fewer paused to reflect that under the leadership of Rosenberg, Bormann and Himmler, who were backed by Hitler, the Nazi regime intended eventually to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists. As Bormann, one of the men closest to Hitler, said publicly in 1941, ”National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable.”

What the Hitler government envisioned for Germany was clearly set out in a thirty-point program for the ”National Reich Church” drawn up during the war by Rosenberg, an outspoken pagan, who among his other offices held that of “the Fuehrer’s Delegate for the Entire Intellectual and Philosophical Education and Instruction for the National Socialist Party.” A few of its thirty articles convey the essentials:

1. The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right and the exclusive power to control all churches within the borders of the Reich: it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich.

5. The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably. . . the strange and foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year.

7. The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests, but National Reich orators are to speak in them.

13. The National church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible in Germany . . .

14. The National Church declares that to it, and therefore to the German nation, it has been decided that the Fuehrer’s Mein Kampf is the greatest of all documents. It . . . not only contains the greatest but it embodies the purest and truest ethics for the present and future life of our nation.

18. The National Church will clear away from its altars all crucifixes, Bibles and pictures of saints.

19. On the altars there must be nothing but Mein Kampf (to the German nation and therefore to God the most sacred book) and to the left of the altar a sword.

30. On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals and chapels . . . and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika.

The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich, Chapter 8, pages 212 – 213

– by William L. Shirer

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 12:29 AM

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 12:23 AM

Then we cannot agree. We are polar opposites on this issue. I would argue that Islam is certainly NOT a “religion” but most accurately described as a death cult, I was being kind to call Islam an ideology.

That’s because you don’t know what you are talking about. You have bought into the cartoonish, simplistic view that was handed to you by others and which makes you “feel cool” in certain circles, then the confirmation bias takes over and you likely became increasingly irrational until to became what you are today.

The reality, of course, is that Islam is certainly a religion, and any even moderately intelligent person knows that. Any reasonable, rational, intelligent person also recognizes that the violent, intrusive, dominating strains are a distinct minority. And nobody who has actually known any Muslims would even think to argue otherwise.

What other “religion” do you know of where a “violent minority” is able to reign over the majority in the name of that same “religion ?”

That’s a non sequitur. What does it matter if there are any other religions that exhibit that characteristic? I thought I indicated rather strongly, if not explicitly, that it was a problem that is unique to Islam, in part, at least, because the majority of them are so peaceful. Very peaceful, humble people have a tendency to be dominated by very violent, self-obsessed people… how is that difficult to understand?

I will say this… if I had to make a choice, I would throw people like Maxx, Infidel4Life, Profitsbeard, and JiangxiDad out of the country before I would throw out the average Muslim… not that I’m advocating throwing anyone out… I just wish people wouldn’t be so blatantly uninformed and susceptible to demagoguery.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:36 AM

Hitler was not a Christian for sure.

He did, however believe in a god.

A god named Hitler.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:36 AM

Maxx gave the long scholarly version. Here’s the short one:

amerpundit, Hitler was not a Christian. He was into the occult.

INC on October 3, 2007 at 12:37 AM

I will say this… if I had to make a choice, I would throw people like Maxx, Infidel4Life, Profitsbeard, and JiangxiDad and MB4 out of the country before I would throw out the average Muslim…

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:36 AM

Now a slight like that really hurts.

But I fixed it more to my liking.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:39 AM

DaveS, you should spend some time at Robert Spencer’s http://www.jihadwatch.com

It might change your views.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:41 AM

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 12:29 AM

Oh amerpundit, I am disappointed with you. I can’t believe you have bought into the liberal lie that Hitler was a Christian… While the left constantly derides Christianity as intolerant, the opposite is true, Christianity is a wellspring of tolerance.

Interestingly, some might say:

“Oh Maxx, I am disappointed with you. I can’t believe you have bought into the rightwing moonbat lie that that bin Laden or the Taliban are true Muslims. While some people constantly deride Islam as intolerant, the opposite is true, Islam is a wellspring of tolerance.”

You’re so busy holding you hands over your ears and humming the alphabet that you don’t even realize how other people perceive you or how irrational you appear.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:42 AM

wccawa on October 3, 2007 at 12:19 AM

I don’t want to get mixed up in anything personal that I’m not aware of, so if it’s personal between you two I suppose it makes more sense.

But…I think you misunderstood MB4. I’m pretty sure he is saying that the Iraqi troops are not fighting for us, but that our troops are fighting (and dying) for them.

jaime on October 3, 2007 at 12:43 AM

Oh, goody- a religious debate. Let me know who wins, will ya?

/snicker

Hollowpoint on October 3, 2007 at 12:43 AM

jaime on October 3, 2007 at 12:43 AM

Bingo!

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:45 AM

Robert Spencer’s Jihad Watch is just that–a website that watches jihadis. If you are basing your view of all muslims on what you read on a site that focuses its efforts on jihadis, then you are pretty everything I have been saying about you for 45 minutes.

I reiterate, get the hell of the internet and go meet people.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:46 AM

“Oh Maxx, I am disappointed with you. I can’t believe you have bought into the rightwing moonbat lie that that bin Laden or the Taliban are true Muslims.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:42 AM

They are true Muslims. Very close to being like Mohammad.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:47 AM

MB4, Infidel4Life, et al…

I’m open-minded, so I’ll make you an offer. I work for a defense contractor, building some really high-tech war porn for our military and for our allies.

Tomorrow I’ll play the role of disinterested fact-finder, and I’ll ask some of the muslims that I work with, who are helping to build that stuff, if they’ve ever decapitated any infidels. Then, tomorrow night, I’ll report my findings.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:50 AM

ameripundit-

You should read the Bible. Even as an agnostic, I have.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” ended the Old Testament cruelty of stoning.

Islam restored it.

Being a retrograde take on the Divine Mystery.

The Jews have dismissed such OT cruelties, under influence of their own cruel treatment through history, and cross-pollination with Christianity.

The Christos of the Testament got rid of dietary rules (“It is not what goes into a man’s mouth, but what comes out ot it, that makes him unclean.“) and most other parochial and patriarchal idiocies and superstitions through wit, metaphor, and calls to human -and divine- Love.
“Turn the other cheek…”; “Render unto Caesar…” etc. etc., etc. Islam reversed all of these brilliant, joyful, sardonic and humane innovations, and dragged its people back into the patriarchal and misogynistic darkness.

DaveS-

You still need to read the Koran.

Just because most Muslims are not acting on its homicidal precepts doesn’t make those precepts any less malevolent, moronic and malicious. (Suras 9:5, 9:29-30, ad nauseam, which are considered eternally relevant and perfect expressions of Allah’s will.)

And, until they scrub them out of their holy texts, these texts will continue to feed terror.

And create jihadis bent on giving infidels three choices:

-convert, submit and pay protection money to the Muslims, or die.

Miminizing the threat -through ignorance of, or denial of its dogmas- may be comforting, but doesn’t help defeat this essentially morbid ideology.

I wish Muslims would leave Islam.

It only brings grief. Mental stagnation. Contempt for other faiths. Mistreatment of women. And incurious fatalism.

There’s plenty of room in the Jain faith for them.

profitsbeard on October 3, 2007 at 12:51 AM

I reiterate, get the hell of the internet and go meet people.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:46 AM

I have and I do, but I can’t very well argue with them.

Have you really spent much time reading at http://www.jihadwatch.com ? I’m thinking not.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:51 AM

Oh amerpundit, I am disappointed with you. I can’t believe you have bought into the liberal lie that Hitler was a Christian. That is as far from the truth as anything can be.

While the left constantly derides Christianity as intolerant, the opposite is true, Christianity is a wellspring of tolerance.

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 12:29 AM

First of all, I never called Christianity intolerant. Second of all, I’d point you to a speech that Hitler gave on April 12, 1922:

My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who – God’s truth! – was greatest, not as a sufferer, but as a fighter.

In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison.

Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.

As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…

He reinvented Jesus as a magnificent fighter of the Jews. When seeking power he wrote:

I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord’s work.

And he repeated that in 1938 at a Reichstag speech. One of his Generals, Gerhard Engel, claims to have been told:

I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so…

His Waffen SS wore belts inscribed with “Gott mit uns” or “God is with us”.

In 1934 he proclaimed:

The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to Positive Christianity

In Mein Kamf, he wrote:

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.

amerpundit on October 3, 2007 at 12:52 AM

Anyway, my point is simply this…

If you can’t vote for a resolution wishing Muslims a Happy Ramadan and offering your respect, you are a jackass.

Tancredo is such a person.

I must rest.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:52 AM

He disclaimed religion when he felt it was a threat to his ambitions, but those close to him claimed he remained religious.

amerpundit on October 3, 2007 at 12:54 AM

profitsbeard on October 3, 2007 at 12:51 AM

“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” ended the Old Testament cruelty of stoning

Yes, we get it… you’re an anti-Semite. The dirty Jews all want to stone people. Yada yada. Enough already.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:54 AM

These “social graces” resolutions ain’t worth shi a warm bucket of spit.

T J Green on October 3, 2007 at 12:57 AM

war porn for our military and for our allies.

Porn?

Tomorrow I’ll play the role of disinterested fact-finder, and I’ll ask some of the muslims that I work with, who are helping to build that stuff, if they’ve ever decapitated any infidels. Then, tomorrow night, I’ll report my findings.

That should really settle everything once and for all. That sounds like the fountain of all knowledge. I can hardly wait. Be sure to get a cure for cancer while you are at it. And warp-drive plans too!

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:50 AM

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 12:59 AM

I will say this… if I had to make a choice, I would throw people like Maxx, Infidel4Life, Profitsbeard, and JiangxiDad out of the country before I would throw out the average Muslim… not that I’m advocating throwing anyone out… I just wish people wouldn’t be so blatantly uninformed and susceptible to demagoguery.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:36 AM

Your always good for a laugh Dave… goodnight all, some of us have to work tomorrow.

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 12:59 AM

DaveS-

The dirty Jews all wants to stone people.

Are you willfully obtuse, or is it congenital?

profitsbeard on October 3, 2007 at 1:00 AM

Then, tomorrow night, I’ll report my findings.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:50 AM

Ask if they are committed to Islam, in its truest form.

infidel4life on October 3, 2007 at 1:00 AM

Yes, we get it… you’re an anti-Semite. The dirty Jews all want to stone people. Yada yada. Enough already.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:54 AM

Roll eyes.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 1:01 AM

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:52 AM

No, I will not wish my enemies a happy anything….jackass. Go grovel to them yourself if you like. Plenty on Capital Hill will join you it seems.

DwnSouthJukin on October 3, 2007 at 1:06 AM

Islam is a wellspring of tolerance.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:42 AM

Dave, Dave, Dave. Don’t let the heat of the debate carry you away.

jaime on October 3, 2007 at 1:06 AM

amerpundit on October 3, 2007 at 12:52 AM

I suppose the Devil himself could claim to be a Christian, but would that make it true? I showed you what the man did to the Christian church, we all know what he did to the Jews. In spite of all of this, you choose to believe what the SAID rather than what his actions proved ?

Bill Clinton said, I did not have sex with that woman. Should we believe Bill?

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 1:09 AM

So on that great day when the Iraqi parliament passes a resolution declaring respect for their Jewish brothers, and wishing them a happy Yom Kippur, you won’t applaud it as a mark of progress, and indication of civilized society?
[snip]
Well, first of all, Islam is not an ideology. It is a religion. Like all religions. . . – DaveS

Whatever he’s drinking/smoking has got to be illegal! Paging Robert Spencer! DaveS needs a copy of your book “Religion of Peace?” STAT!

Thirteen hundred and fifty years of islamic conquest means nothing to folks like this. Review the history of jihad . . .by those that follow this ‘religion’. I will not wish any believer a happy ramadan – ever. To do so would be to ignore all that is known about this ‘religion’ and the meaning of this ‘holiday’.

Ramadan marks the day the Koran was sent down from Heaven via the angel Gabriel to Prophet Muhammad.

Pick up a koran – read it. Take careful note of koranic good will towards all men not of their faith and consider what your good wishes actually mean.

heroyalwhyness on October 3, 2007 at 1:11 AM

Islam is a wellspring of tolerance.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:42 AM

Well to read you say that is a real relief to me.

I now know that no matter how clueless a statement I will ever make, it will not be the most clueless statement ever made.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 1:12 AM

@profitsbeard, the clear implication of your comment-which blindly asserted that adherents to a religion (Islam) are uniformly accepting of the literal translation of their religious text–was that Jews, too, must all be uncivilized monsters just itching to stone somebody, by virtue of their texts. You even recognized that, so you tried to weasel out of it afterward.

The obvious logical implication of reality, however, is that just as Jews have abandoned the strictest interpretations of the Old Testament, so, too, have the vast majority of muslims (particularly those in the US) abandoned the strictest interpretations of the Koran.

This is the reality, and is obvious to those of us who actually know muslims, aren’t blinded by bigotry, and are at least somewhat educated and capable of clear, rational, logical thought. You, on the other hand, didn’t seem to even discern the ramifications of your own comment.

infidel4life on October 3, 2007 at 1:00 AM

Ask if they are committed to Islam, in its truest form.

So 99.9% of Jews aren’t Jews, because they “aren’t committed to the truest form of Judaism”? When is the last time some Jews stoned someone? Are there no true Jews remaining among us?

Why do I get the impression that you (and the other handful of people) couldn’t really care less about what most Muslims believe, and that you just get your rocks off by talking crap about millions of people you don’t know or care to know?

Seriously, it is idiots like you guys who make all of us look like intolerant morons. You belong on DailyKos or Democratic Underground… just change some of the proper nouns in your mindless declarations and you’d fit right in.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 1:13 AM

“all of us”

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 1:13 AM

Us? No thanks. There is no ‘us’ — I ain’t with you.

infidel4life on October 3, 2007 at 1:16 AM

AP, I wish you’d stop portraying Tanc as a lunatic. He’s a decent man with a reasonable vision. I mean I like Tanc and he would be my first choice for Prez. And yet I’m a gay, pro-abortion, environmentalist who thinks Hilary is far more decent than right-wing fantasy makes her.

Tancredo has the Churchill-like and Reagan-like to see far beyond the conventional wisdom and yet be a truly nice human being. Let’s credit him for his wisdom rather than calling him insane. And perhaps, if picked Olympia Snowe for his VP, he could actually win a general election.

(Of course, when he say he’s a creationist, I’ll admit to finding that a little too weird, but I suppose we have to learn to tolerate such eccentricities.)

thuja on October 3, 2007 at 1:18 AM

Whatever he’s drinking/smoking has got to be illegal! Paging Robert Spencer! DaveS needs a copy of your book “Religion of Peace?” STAT!

heroyalwhyness on October 3, 2007 at 1:11 AM

Hell, forget the book. There is not enough time! DaveS needs an IV bolus of some of Robert Spencer’s blood. This is an emergency. Not enough time to read a book.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 1:18 AM

So 99.9% of Jews aren’t Jews, because they “aren’t committed to the truest form of Judaism”? When is the last time some Jews stoned someone? Are there no true Jews remaining among us?

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 1:13 AM

According to these guys, probably not. They’ll also tell you that we;re running out of true Republicans, conservatives, Christians, etc. Fundamentalists, all.

Big S on October 3, 2007 at 1:20 AM

heroyalwhyness

Whatever he’s drinking/smoking has got to be illegal! Paging Robert Spencer! DaveS needs a copy of your book “Religion of Peace?” STAT!

It’s comforting to know that so many of you have had your beliefs spoon-fed to you by the same one freakin’ guy, and all without having to actually meet any real Muslims! Super!

And I love the presupposition that anyone who doesn’t share your psychosis must not have ever read anything Robert Spencer has written. I have. I’m just smarter than you, and am able to distinguish between the violent strains that are the most visible in geopolitics and between the average Muslim.

You are NOT capable of making that distinction, so you degenerate into baseless bigotry. Which can be fun, because then we get some REALLY stupid comments, like this one by DwnSouthJukin:

No, I will not wish my enemies a happy anything….jackass. Go grovel to them yourself if you like. Plenty on Capital Hill will join you it seems.

Thanks “DwnSouthJukin”! Not only do you make people right-of-center look like retards, you also reinforce the view that the south is fool if ignorant morons.

Anyway, if there are any Muslims reading this who haven’t been run off to the Dems by these ignorant pricks, “Happy Ramadan!”

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 1:26 AM

I suppose the Devil himself could claim to be a Christian, but would that make it true? I showed you what the man did to the Christian church, we all know what he did to the Jews. In spite of all of this, you choose to believe what the SAID rather than what his actions proved ?

Bill Clinton said, I did not have sex with that woman. Should we believe Bill?

Maxx on October 3, 2007 at 1:09 AM

His actions showed him cleaning the church out only when it was viewed as a threat to his ambitions, as I’ve stated. For his 56 years on this earth, through his struggle for power and to his family and friends, he was religious. For a few years, when trying to assert his power and make sure no one interfered, he stopped other people from practicing. I believe what he did for over half a century instead of what he did publicly for a few years when it suit him.

Now, the discussion here was whether the House should recognize a holiday celebrated by a religion whose extremists have attacked us. You know what? Extremists from other religions, including Christianity, have attacked us or been intentionally responsible for the deaths of innocent people, too. Those are the people that need to be rooted out – regardless of religion – and, quite frankly, killed.

The question here should not be if Congress should recognize one holiday instead of another. The question here should be why the heck is Congress concentrating on recognizing any holiday – be it Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, etc. – when they’re still sitting on our troops’ funding.

Now please excuse me, but I do need to scurry off the bed. Good night all. Sleep well.

amerpundit on October 3, 2007 at 1:26 AM

amerpundit, one more link on Hitler from NRO by Dave Shiflet You Mean Hitler Wasn’t A Priest?

A shocking story has been revealed: Adolf Hitler was not a Christian after all. Instead, he hoped to destroy Christianity. This news flash comes courtesy of a group of students at Rutgers University School of Law at Camden, who have posted papers on a website detailing Hitler’s desire to eradicate Christianity. The documents are from the archives of Gen. William J. Donovan and were originally prepared for the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, so we can safely assume they are authentic.

To be sure, Hitler’s antagonism toward Christianity will not be news to everyone. That its central figure hails from a Jewish family did not set well with him, and its teachings of universal love ran contrary to his violent precepts. Yet one could easily get the impression, these days, that Hitler believed himself to be something of an altar boy on a mission for God.

The Rutgers project’s editor, for example, seems to have been taken a bit by surprise. Julie Seltzer Mandel told the Philadelphia Enquirer that “When people think about the Holocaust, they think about the crimes against Jews, but here’s a different perspective.” The Nazis, she says, “wanted to eliminate the Jews altogether, but they were also looking to eliminate Christianity.”…

The Rutgers site’s presentation is entitled “The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian Churches,” and it notes a deep hatred of Christianity throughout the higher echelons. “Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked to meet this situation [church influence] by complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion.” Their assault was massive: “Different steps in that persecution, such as the campaign for the suppression of denominational and youth organizations, the campaign against denominational schools, the defamation campaign against the clergy, started on the same day in the whole area of the Reich… and were supported by the entire regimented press, by Nazi Party meetings, by traveling party speakers.”

INC on October 3, 2007 at 1:28 AM

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 12:08 AM

Uhhh… ever been to the Middle East?

Or are you dealing with Moslems who have assimilated into the American culture (my guess as you said you work for a defense contractor… you know those pesky clearences).

Please, feel free to go celebrate Ramadan in Saudi, in their Holy city…. go join in… watch them…

Oh.. wait.. you can’t, your an infidel and its literaly against Sharia law for you to do so, thus against the Secular law of the Kingdom…

You really are clueless about Islam…. Its a Political ideology, wrapped in a system of Sharia Law, that is mandated by Allah… its NOTHING like what we call religion in the West today. Its much more like the Catholic church of the DARK AGES… you know… that thing we fought to get rid of?

Think Spanish Inquisition here… and you’ll get an idea.

Consider this, would an old time Catholic church, with its inherent idea of rule by Divine Right (which is in the Koran by the way) be compatable with America today?

This religions own writings are against everything the West holds dear… Freedom of religion and speech… Equality… all those things we fought for… its specificly agianst the relgion and laws which back it.

Why should we celebrate a religion whose belief system is repugnant to us?

Go Tanc! Got yer back dude.

Romeo13 on October 3, 2007 at 1:54 AM

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 1:13 AM

You do realize the most countries of the Middle East have RELIGOUS POLICE??? Whose only duty is to confront those who are not following Sharia law?

You do know that Honor Killings are NOT MURDER under Sharia law?

Your ignorance of how Islam is practiced in the Middle East, where it is in control, shows you do NOT know the religion.

Romeo13 on October 3, 2007 at 2:00 AM

Whew, reading thru some of these threads I wonder if we’ll ever get back to Kansas Toto.

Oh yeah, Tancredo rocks.

Buzzy on October 3, 2007 at 2:01 AM

Oh my GOD!

My worst nightmare!!

Feet don’t fail me now!!!

MB4 on October 2, 2007 at 11:26 PM

MB4, you are a one clever dude, even if I don’t always agree with you. I’m glad you’re not thin-skinned and weather the insults so light-heartedly. You make me laugh a lot.

This thread was really weird.

Entelechy on October 3, 2007 at 2:51 AM

MB4 on October 2, 2007 at 11:10 PM

Excellent post MB4 !! Where did you get those quotes ?

Maxx on October 2, 2007 at 11:26 PM

I had them saved in an email account. Most came from various commenters over the months at Robert Spencer’s JihadWatch.

MB4 on October 3, 2007 at 3:54 AM

It’s comforting to know that so many of you have had your beliefs spoon-fed to you by the same one freakin’ guy, and all without having to actually meet any real Muslims! Super!

Oh come off it. I’ve met nice Muslims before, plenty in fact, but I still despise Islam. Going out of your way to praise Islam as a great religion is an act of mental submission.

aengus on October 3, 2007 at 5:42 AM

I am posting this comment in order to demonstrate solidarity with MB4, Maxx, Infidel4Life, Profitsbeard, Romeo13…

I know muslims (secular, I assume) in my community who seem to be wonderful people. But I don’t feel the need to wish them a happy Ramadan because their religion sucks, and the rest of you know it. And don’t come back at me with nonsense about the Jews or Christianity, because it’s insulting when you try to equate the religious text or the actions of Muslims to these two great faiths.
My only problem with what Tancredo said is that he spun it afterwards in the attempt to do a bit of damage control. But even then he was correct. This nation is great because of our Judeo-Christian heritage. We owe Islam nothing.

Dork B. on October 3, 2007 at 6:27 AM

Tancredo an ugly American

EricPWJohnson on October 3, 2007 at 6:41 AM

Furthermore, Islam is NOT one of the great religions of the world. Read blogging the Koran.

JiangxiDad on October 2, 2007 at 11:07 PM

Bingo! It is not a “religion of peace,” it has been repeatedly demonstrated to the world that it is a cult of death.

Texas Nick 77 on October 3, 2007 at 6:44 AM

Why are they honoring the smelly goats and their dirtbag religious practices?

saved on October 3, 2007 at 7:19 AM

Why should we be expressing any solidarity with a hateful cult founded by a pedophile warlord madman? Islam should be banned in America for being what it is, namely a political ideology akin to marxism and nazism that inherently seeks, through its doctrines in it immutable texts, to subjugate the freedom of all people and to replace the laws and constitution of the United States with sharia law. This is what islam represents. This is a well-stated aim.

And Congress salutes this Trojan horse. This is what Hitler did wrong. He should have draped Nazism in an islamic religious cloak instead of secularism. But then again, in 1941, we weren’t so PC so it wouldn’t have worked back then.

The only criticism of Tancredo is that he did not vote against it.

jihadwatcher on October 3, 2007 at 7:40 AM

creeping Sharia. this is how it starts.

ctmom on October 3, 2007 at 7:46 AM

DaveS,

Well, first of all, Islam is not an ideology. It is a religion. Like all religions, it has various ideologically diverse “sects”. Unfortunately, Islam has a couple of very assertive, violent strains that are part of the cause of the problem.

I presume you meant to write “theologically diverse”. After all if it isn’t an ideology how can there be ideological differences? (Duh.)

You’re wrong that there are a couple of violent strains followed by Islamic sects. The mainstream Islamic texts exhort violence against the kufr (unbelievers), all Muslims follow the hadith (the life of Mohammed, the perfect man) for emulation.

This is one sect that don’t follow these teachings literally, Sufis. That’s it. Aside from terrorists there are those who pursue jihad through non-violent means (proselytising, financing etc.) Then there are non-observant Muslims who just want to get on with their lives but can cite no justification within the texts of Islam for doing so.

If you can think you can disprove any of this please try. Otherwise consider yourself schooled.

aengus on October 3, 2007 at 7:53 AM

Is it just me, or does anybody else wish these freaking morons in BOTH houses would quit wasting my money and time on s%#t like this and various other resolutions condemning or praising whatever the flavor of the day is????
For Gods sake, do the job we sent you there to do, or go the hell home.

commonsensehoosier on October 2, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Is it just me, or does anybody else wish these freaking morons in BOTH houses would quit wasting my money and time on s%#t like this and various other resolutions condemning or praising whatever the flavor of the day is????
For Gods sake, do the job we sent you there to do, or go the hell home.

there…fixed it for ya.

Pilgrim on October 3, 2007 at 8:09 AM

This is one sect that don’t follow these teachings literally, Sufis.- aengus

The Sufi branch of Islam has enjoyed spectacularly good press in the West. Hailed as peaceful mystics who believe jihad is a spiritual quest, nothing violent or unpleasant, Sufism has attracted favorable attention and converts from all sorts of Westerners, from new agers in Marin County, California, to East Coast intellectuals. But Sufis are not necessarily all peace-loving meditative seekers of the divine.
The formation of the “The Sufi Jihadi Squadrons of Shaykh ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani” in Iraq was recently announced at the jihadist website, “Jihad Unspun”. The Al-Gilani (d.1166) after whom they are named was in fact a Hanbali Sufi.

Sufi jihadists”(?)—a “Hanbali Sufi”(??)—haven’t we been lectured at great length about the singular evils of “Wahhabism” —rooted in the Hanbali school of Muslim jurisprudence, epitomized by Ibn Taymiyya (d. 1328)—versus its Islamic “antithesis”, the ecumenical tradition of mystical Sufism???

Notwithstanding the musings of a Muslim journalist and neo-convert from Bolshevism to Sufi Islam (see his bizarre and treacly “profession of faith” here, and a clinical description of what this newly described syndrome represents), Sufism has been linked integrally to the Muslim institution of jihad war since the 11th century C.E.

Consistent with this nexus between Sufism and orthodox Islam, Sufis have supported (fervently) the corollary institution of dhimmitude, replete with all its oppressive and humiliating regulations for non-Muslims. It is also important to highlight, in contrast, the very flimsy theological foundation of the much ballyhooed Sufi notion of the so-called “greater” spiritual jihad. Even the Islamophilic scholar Reuven Firestone has acknowledged the dubious nature of the hadith ostensibly outlining this potential interpretation of jihad: [1]

Dr. Bostom presents the rest at The American Thinker.

heroyalwhyness on October 3, 2007 at 9:44 AM

I know muslims (secular, I assume) in my community who seem to be wonderful people. But I don’t feel the need to wish them a happy Ramadan because their religion sucks, and the rest of you know it. And don’t come back at me with nonsense about the Jews or Christianity, because it’s insulting when you try to equate the religious text or the actions of Muslims to these two great faiths.

Dork B. on October 3, 2007 at 6:27 AM

I always point out that just because someone goes a church doesn’t mean that they listen. I’m sure we all know fundamentalist Christians who couldn’t tell you the names of the four gospels. They same is true for Islam. You can to mosque every Friday, but not pay attention to a word said. You could then appear to be both a decent person and a devout muslim, but exactly how are you a muslim if I don’t know what the Koran and the Hadith say? (For that matter, how are you a fundamentalist Christian, if you can’t name the four gospels?)

You’re wrong that there are a couple of violent strains followed by Islamic sects. The mainstream Islamic texts exhort violence against the kufr (unbelievers), all Muslims follow the hadith (the life of Mohammed, the perfect man) for emulation. This is one sect that don’t follow these teachings literally, Sufis. That’s it.
aengus on October 3, 2007 at 7:53 AM

I wouldn’t trust the Sufis. Read up on their history. I would trust the The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement movement to act ok.

thuja on October 3, 2007 at 10:00 AM

There is no excuse for voting against this.

The Republicans have a MAJOR image problem because of crap like this.

DaveS on October 2, 2007 at 10:47 PM

There is no excuse for having a vote on this in the first place. I feel the same way about the Christmas one as well.

Gianni on October 3, 2007 at 10:38 AM

That pic of Tancredo always cracks me up!

CP on October 3, 2007 at 10:46 AM

Here is how Muslims respect the holidays of other people. My thanks to Tanc for not being a chump.

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&QR=947

Question:
Can a muslim celebrate a non muslim holiday like Thanksgiving?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Greeting the kuffaar on Christmas and other religious holidays of theirs is haraam, by consensus, as Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah: “Congratulating the kuffaar on the rituals that belong only to them is haraam by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals and fasts by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on. If the one who says this has been saved from kufr, it is still forbidden. It is like congratulating someone for prostrating to the cross, or even worse than that. It is as great a sin as congratulating someone for drinking wine, or murdering someone, or having illicit sexual relations, and so on. Many of those who have no respect for their religion fall into this error; they do not realize the offensiveness of their actions. Whoever congratulates a person for his disobedience or bid’ah or kufr exposes himself to the wrath and anger of Allaah.”

Congratulating the kuffaar on their religious festivals is haraam to the extent described by Ibn al-Qayyim because it implies that one accepts or approves of their rituals of kufr, even if one would not accept those things for oneself. But the Muslim should not aceept the rituals of kufr or congratulate anyone else for them, because Allaah does not accept any of that at all, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“If you disbelieve, then verily, Allaah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. . .”
[al-Zumar 39:7]

“. . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . .”
[al-Maa’idah 5:3]

So congratulating them is forbidden, whether they are one’s colleagues at work or otherwise.

If they greet us on the occasion of their festivals, we should not respond, because these are not our festivals, and because they are not festivals which are acceptable to Allaah. These festivals are innovations in their religions, and even those which may have been prescribed formerly have been abrogated by the religion of Islaam, with which Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to the whole of mankind. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

It is haraam for a Muslim to accept invitations on such occasions, because this is worse than congratulating them as it implies taking part in their celebrations.

Similarly, Muslims are forbidden to imitate the kuffaar by having parties on such occasions, or exchanging gifts, or giving out sweets or food, or taking time off work, etc., because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah said in his book Iqtidaa’ al-siraat al-mustaqeem mukhaalifat ashaab al-jaheem: “Imitating them in some of their festivals implies that one is pleased with their false beliefs and practices, and gives them the hope that they may have the opportunity to humiliate and mislead the weak.”

Whoever does anything of this sort is a sinner, whether he does it out of politeness or to be friendly, or because he is too shy to refuse, or for whatever other reason, because this is hypocrisy in Islaam, and because it makes the kuffaar feel proud of their religion.

Allaah is the One Whom we ask to make the Muslims feel proud of their religion, to help them adhere steadfastly to it, and to make them victorious over their enemies, for He is the Strong and Omnipotent.

VinceP1974 on October 3, 2007 at 11:02 AM

aengus on October 3, 2007 at 7:53 AM

I presume you meant to write “theologically diverse”. After all if it isn’t an ideology how can there be ideological differences? (Duh.)

Seriously? This is a problem I’ve noted before, but commenters here lack a very basic understanding of simple logical rules, which should be intuitively understood by most people.

If ice cream isn’t a flavor, how can there be different flavors?

If tires aren’t a size, how can there be different sizes?

If Americans aren’t Asian people, how can there be American’s who are Asian?

If computers aren’t Dells, how can there be Dell computers?

If Islam isn’t an ideology, how can there be various ideologies held by it’s adherents? Well, I think that’s obvious, but, then again, I have an intuitive grasp of simple logical relationships, so maybe I have a genetic advantage over you… I don’t know, but I’m sure you can figure it out.

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 11:12 AM

VinceP1974 on October 3, 2007 at 11:02 AM

Here is how Muslims respect the holidays of other people.

No… that’s how a random guy on some website respects the holidays of other people. Furthermore, it sounds, oddly, like you are suggesting that we adopt a more Islamic attitude toward other faiths, as described at that website.

In related news, this is how Christians respect other people! It’s right there on a website, and is therefore inarguable!

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 11:21 AM

Yeah, terrific, Tanc. Spit on all the Iraqi soldiers who are fighting Al Qaeda with us. Good stuff.

Allahpundit on October 2, 2007 at 10:39 PM

Refusing to vote yes on that resolution is “spitting” on all Muslims?! Allah, you’ve flipped your turban!

clark smith on October 3, 2007 at 11:28 AM

Go Tanc!

Maxx on October 2, 2007 at 11:19 PM

You’re absolutely right, Maxx. Unfortunately, it’s painfully clear to me after reading this thread that many of the “enlightened” conservative here still don’t get it. It’s sad and depressing.

Wake up, people.

2Brave2Bscared on October 3, 2007 at 12:39 PM

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 11:21 AM

Heh. The point you’re missing here, Dave, is that the actions of the Phelps church can’t be justified via the scriptures. Those people are nothing but an, ugly, hateful, hell-bound cult.

However, the actions of the Jihadis can very much be explained by the Koran. Heck, the Koran is their best recruiting tool (and not because they twist the passages either; the interpretations they use are very much mainstream).

2Brave2Bscared on October 3, 2007 at 12:50 PM

This thread was really weird.
Entelechy on October 3, 2007 at 2:51 AM

Indeed.
The longest most deceitful rant by a drunken mooslem to be sure. One of our posters? I wont name names.…but if islam was so great, why aren’t the muslims standing up against TERROR. If you have to stop and think to come up with at least six of them… ….well? They( mo followers) must condone it, or they believe in their cult religion to the point they agree with it at some level. They DO want islam to rule the world.
Islam – It is a death cult.
I will stand w/ MB4 and be firm in my knowledge that the islamic religion (really it’s an occult gov’t) is what MB4 posted above – MB4 on October 2, 2007 at 11:10 PM-
.
Any one with knowledge of thousands or even hundreds of muslims condemning the islamic terrorists, please let me know where and who they are.
.
Islam declared war on us ( all non-muslims), and has done so repeatedly for over 1300 years. That is FACT.
.
We ARE at war with ISLAM. Islam IS the EVIL in this world.

shooter on October 3, 2007 at 1:03 PM

No… that’s how a random guy on some website respects the holidays of other people. Furthermore, it sounds, oddly, like you are suggesting that we adopt a more Islamic attitude toward other faiths, as described at that website.

In related news, this is how Christians respect other people! It’s right there on a website, and is therefore inarguable!

DaveS on October 3, 2007 at 11:21 AM

You reveal you know as much about Islam as you do Christianity. Which is very little.

If your position is that Islam instructs its followers to tolerate the religious holidays of other faiths it’s on you to prove that.

I won’t hold my breath

VinceP1974 on October 3, 2007 at 3:07 PM

MB4 on October 2, 2007 at 11:10 PM

Like Shooter and other clear thinking conservatives, I could not agree more with your post.

Do not let people like DaveS get you down. It is obvious he has not taken the time and effort to read the Quoran and is a Dhimmi just like GWB thinking that Islam is the Religion of peace.

We could take up collection for him to pay the Jizya tax under Surah Tauba 9:29 to avoid having his head removed from the head choppers.

ScottyDog on October 3, 2007 at 3:59 PM

ScottyDog-

We could take up a collection…

I tried giving DaveS 2 cents but he expelled me from the country.

(Typing this from a dinghy off the coast of Belize among a flotilla of anti-semitic jellyfish.)

profitsbeard on October 3, 2007 at 5:24 PM

DaveS:

How serenditious for me.. Here’s a news story FROM TODAY about Muslims chucking Thanksgiving right out the window… just like the Website I posted

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=0821a06b-a34d-4e76-aaf9-b3015c1a37bb&k=66020

Mosque says to avoid Western holidays
‘Thanksgiving Out’
Stewart Bell, National Post
Published: Wednesday, October 03, 2007
TORONTO – A Toronto mosque is telling Muslims not to say “Happy Thanksgiving” or invite friends into their homes for turkey dinner on the holiday weekend.

The Khalid Bin Al-Walid Mosque says to “avoid participating” in dinners, parties or greetings on Thanksgiving because it is a kuffaar, or non-Muslim, celebration.

A two-part article on the mosque Web site says Muslims should also “stay completely away” from “Halloween trick-and treat nonsense,” Christmas, New Year’s, anniversaries, birthdays and Earth Day.

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Font:****”How can we bring ourselves to congratulate or wish people well for their disobedience to Allah? Thus expressions such as:Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Birthday, Happy New Year, etc, are completely out,” it says.

In 2003, the Khalid mosque, which mainly serves the Toronto Somali-Canadian community, apologized for a newsletter that compared wishing someone a Merry Christmas to congratulating a murderer.

At the time, a junior employee was blamed for the slight, but the mosque’s Web site has since posted similar edicts covering not only Christmas but also virtually every other Western celebration.

Muslims who participate in the holidays are termed ignorant and hypocritical.

While not all are religious holidays, the Internet site says Muslims are required to be different from non-Muslims “in matters which are representative of them or are characteristic of their identity.”

Also banned, it says, are: watching sports or soap operas, walking dogs, family photos, wedding bands, Western hats, mingling and shaking hands with the opposite sex.

“Allah and his messenger have warned us against following or imitating non-Muslims in things which are characteristic of their religion or beliefs. This is more emphasized in the case of their eids [festivals] or occasions, which always hold some religious or ideological non-Islamic meanings, and on which the kuffaar indulge in many evil practices.”

The Web site also has a question-and-answer section, which advises that Muslims can join political parties only if they are “able to exert some influence on the direction of the party so that it will take an Islamic direction.”

Elsewhere in the Q&A section, it says that, “with strong determination and patience, the world will God-willing be under the Muslims’ control.”

The mosque is run by a federally registered charity. Rival factions within the Somali Muslim community are fighting in court for control of the charity. The mosque president could not be reached yesterday.

VinceP1974 on October 3, 2007 at 5:24 PM

profitsbeard on October 3, 2007 at 5:24 PM

LOL

ScottyDog on October 3, 2007 at 7:42 PM

Just got in from work, and in the Ramnadan spirit of things, I will celebrate with a Bud.

gary on October 3, 2007 at 8:10 PM

If Islam isn’t an ideology, how can there be various ideologies held by it’s adherents?

DaveS allow me to put this in the most simple terms so that even you can understand it. Islam is a religion founded on immutable theological foundations. Mohammed defined Islamic holy law over a thousand years before you were born. If Muslims do no not adhere to the tenets of Islam then they are not “adherents”. If there are so many radically differing interpretations of Islam then name a few and please specify in which particular aspects they depart from one another. I tried to give you a head start with Sufi mysticism but according to other commenters I was reaching to some extent.

aengus on October 3, 2007 at 9:03 PM

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