A Truther finds the real truth

posted at 1:33 pm on September 28, 2007 by Bryan

By way of Daimnation, here’s now ex-Truther Mike Metzger explaining why he has left the 9-11 Truther brigades.

I was a true believer of all this controlled demolition nonsense for a time. I never cared about the physics or the claims of pseudo-”experts.” What always did it for me was the fact that there was never a decent response to any of these questions by the government. Even the hit pieces you’d see on 9/11 were always personal attacks. The mainstream never contested the actual “facts” movies like Loose Change presented.

Or so it seemed. After watching Screw Loose Change, I delved into the world of 9/11 Truth debunking. Among my favorites are the Screw Loose Change Blog and 9/11 Myths Finally, someone was answered all these pertinent questions with something that was a bit foreign to me… facts agreed upon by the experts.

There are no facts in the 9/11 Truth Movement. Just a lot of theories, which eventually break down to “hey, we’re just asking questions” if someone questions the validity of such. No structural, civil, or any engineers agree with the truthers. Yet, most of my friends will try to explain the hard physics involved in structural collapses. None of these people are engineers, physicists, or even in a scientific field, for that matter. Someone’s supposed to take their word over an expert’s?

Read the whole, destructive, brilliant thing. He slams the Truther notion that FDNY firefighters could be involved and pretty much makes hash of the whole movement. Facts can reach even the most ardent Truthers, if those Truthers have any honesty about them at all (so no, there’s really no hope for Rosie O or Alex Jones). It’s clear that Mike Metzger in an honest man who has realized he made an error and wants to correct it.

Now, I happen to think that there are signs here and there that others within the core of the Truth movement are having second thoughts. Or, at the very least, that they realize that they’re losing ground on the factual arguments.

I’ve been saving this clip for a while now. It’s from the History Channel’s 9-11 Conspiracy Theories: Fact or Fiction documentary that aired a while back. In this clip, pay attention to what the Loose Change producers are really saying about two of their core Truther theories.

The Loose Change boys have given up on the faked cell phone calls theory and the controlled demolition of the WTC 1 & 2 theory. Those are two rather significant theories to just quietly give up on. They’re tacitly acknowledging that they have lost the debate on those two points and that the experts have won, so they are now switching to theories that haven’t been debunked as thoroughly. How long before division over interpretation or how much to emphasize one theory over another splits these boys up like the Palestinian factions in The Life of Brian?

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Those are two rather significant theories to just quietly give up on.

Should we expect them to be get featured on the MSM to tell us the truth of there scientific findings?

I’m holding my breath…..

Mcguyver on September 28, 2007 at 1:44 PM

They are just like the “evolutionist,” every time they get caught in a lie, they just make up a new lie. That is evolution’s contribution to science.

Maxx on September 28, 2007 at 1:44 PM

Welcome, Mr. Metzger!

Nice to see that reality wins out, occasionally!

Good post, Bryan.. Thanks!

paragon27x on September 28, 2007 at 1:44 PM

Don’t bring evolution into this. It’s a distraction and amounts to thread hijacking.

Bryan on September 28, 2007 at 1:45 PM

Mike Metzger is one in a million. Most truthers not only lack the intelligence but the education and self honesty to do the research required to see the real truth.

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 1:48 PM

Don’t bring evolution into this. It’s a distraction and amounts to thread hijacking.

Bryan on September 28, 2007 at 1:45 PM

We’re supposed to debate whether or not the Truther’s are right?

pedestrian on September 28, 2007 at 1:52 PM

“Screw loose Change” perfect title! Unfortunately, I know one of these nuts, His wife will not let him speak about it in public. She really is having a hard time with his delusions, and she is a psychiatrist. Go figure.

abinitioadinfinitum on September 28, 2007 at 1:52 PM

Earlier this year, I woulda thought trutherism was on the rise. It seemed like it was ascending, we had Rosie on the View espousing trutherism (and the audience clapping along), news stories letting them voice their idiocy, etc.

It looks like its in totally shambles now.

One of the loose change guys is in jail for going AWOL right? Another had to get a real job cuz the truthers weren’t buying his books. etc.

Its getting easier and easier to attack the truthers point by point and show them to be wrong.

On a pure logical level; its kinda fun to put them in awkward positions to make them say some really stupid things.

lorien1973 on September 28, 2007 at 1:54 PM

had a feeling it wouldnt take too long till these people would awaken from their stupidity, it took a couple more years then i thought it would but thats ok.

trailortrash on September 28, 2007 at 1:54 PM

“Screw loose Change” perfect title! Unfortunately, I know one of these nuts, His wife will not let him speak about it in public. She really is having a hard time with his delusions, and she is a psychiatrist. Go figure.

abinitioadinfinitum on September 28, 2007 at 1:52 PM

She should put him on clozapine therapy.

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 1:55 PM

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 1:48 PM

Sad, but true. It is a start, though.

paragon27x on September 28, 2007 at 1:56 PM

Just noticing but is allahpundit on vaction or something?

submarine_guy on September 28, 2007 at 1:59 PM

Just noticing but is allahpundit on vaction or something?

submarine_guy on September 28, 2007 at 1:59 PM

Recovering from oral surgery I believe…

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 2:01 PM

Just noticing but is allahpundit on vaction or something?

submarine_guy on September 28, 2007 at 1:59 PM

Recovering from oral surgery I believe…

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 2:01 PM

But it’s O.K. Bryan is doing an excellent job of picking up the slack… :)

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 2:03 PM

Bryan on September 28, 2007 at 1:45 PM

Let not argue about comparing which group is as crazy as the Troofers. How about we just agree that NO ONE could possibly be as crazy as these people.

Peace Out

BohicaTwentyTwo on September 28, 2007 at 2:05 PM

But it’s O.K. Bryan is doing an excellent job of picking up the slack… :)

I agree, just hadn’t seen him post in awhile/

submarine_guy on September 28, 2007 at 2:06 PM

I would shift toward building 7 LOL but that to has been explained!!!!!

Kevin43 on September 28, 2007 at 2:07 PM

It is amazing to me that people can hate their own country so much that they buy into this kind of garbage… although I guess I shouldn’t be suprised by anything anymore.

submarine_guy on September 28, 2007 at 2:08 PM

Don’t bring evolution into this. It’s a distraction and amounts to thread hijacking.

Bryan on September 28, 2007 at 1:45 PM

Your right… sorry about that.

Maxx on September 28, 2007 at 2:10 PM

She should put him on clozapine therapy.

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 1:55 PM

The biggest problem is he has his two teenage sons believing this crap. I think she needs to put him on a jail treatment for child abuse.

abinitioadinfinitum on September 28, 2007 at 2:13 PM

Whatever. Just another Lefty brain damaged idiot. It is precisely this idiocy that prevented him from finding the SLC site which has been up since shortly after the Truth retards got started.

No Hallelujahs for you bro. You deserve months of verbal beating and debasement. Right now you feel awakened. Later you will begin to loathe your former comrades. Then and only then will you know that you deserve all of the abuse a firefighter or cop can tase you with.

You need to do a penance. Spray silly string on Truthers at ground zero. Get arrested for pissing on their shoes. In time you will understand the restraint it takes not to pummel you idiots.

Nice that you have come to your senses, but you are NOT forgiven.

Agrippa2k on September 28, 2007 at 2:13 PM

Eject!Eject!Eject! has an exellent article trashing conspiracy theorists in general. He unloads on them, calling them losers. One of the points he brings up is how these people have no connection to reality and how the real world functions.

Compare the 9/11 theories to the JFK or Roswell conspiracy theories. The improbability of coordinating as many people to pull off the charade, then the certainty that one of those hundreds (or thousands) of co-conspirators would spill the beans, makes the theories even more laughable.

It’s refreshing to see that some of these people are getting some clean air and letting their brains function. It’s noble that this guy has the courage and humility to admit his error.

windbag on September 28, 2007 at 2:16 PM

Agrippa2k on September 28, 2007 at 2:13 PM

I would have to say I agree strongly.

abinitioadinfinitum on September 28, 2007 at 2:18 PM

One of the forums I run still has in infestation of truthers, including one architech that seems to have difficulty understanding the difference between “shoot” and
“pull”

I don’t think I’d want to have someone like that designing buildings for me

Canadian Imperialist Running Dog on September 28, 2007 at 2:24 PM

Now Roswell 1947, that is where the real conspiracy lays.

Neo on September 28, 2007 at 2:28 PM

Nice that you have come to your senses, but you are NOT forgiven.

Agrippa2k on September 28, 2007 at 2:13 PM

Cut the kid some slack- he’s a college student. Better late than never, and it did take some guts to come out publicly considering the backlash he’ll likely get from his former cohorts.

Hollowpoint on September 28, 2007 at 2:33 PM

Agrippa2k on September 28, 2007 at 2:13 PM

Isn’t coming out publicly, putting himself in a position to be ridiculed a good start? Can you imagine the vitriol the people he associated with are going to heap on him? I despise the truth movement but there are at least a few that are just stupid kids that fell in with a group of persuasive dolts, and should be welcomed back to reality.
I’m happy he stepped back from the brink.

SouthernDem on September 28, 2007 at 2:35 PM

SouthernDem on September 28, 2007 at 2:35 PM

Until the next time they nearly step into the brink, you mean. And that’s the real problem, schools for some reason are not instilling critical thought into kids these days.

lorien1973 on September 28, 2007 at 2:42 PM

Most truthers not only lack the intelligence but the education and self honesty to do the research required to see the real truth.

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 1:48 PM

I have to disagree. What truthers (and conspiracists in general) lack is not intelligence but a sense of proportion. I’m no Dr. Helen, but my gut evaluation of truthers is that they were is that they were the brainy kids that were interested in stuff no one around them could even understand. After awhile this results in a general disdain for their peers and a belief that, on any given topic, they know more than anyone else. This leads naturally to a contempt for conventional wisdom, common sense or popular opinion.

Also, there is a certain prefernce for “logic” over “facts”. Trouble is, of course, that you can prove any damn thing if you never have to validate your starting assumptions.

JackOfClubs on September 28, 2007 at 2:46 PM

JackOfClubs on September 28, 2007 at 2:46 PM

I have yet to meet an intellectual truther, hate to say. They are all gullible twits.

This is no joke. On some forum, I got a truther to believe the idea that space aliens are controlling our planet in like 20 minutes. Just by letting him follow his own line of thinking. It was hilarious.

lorien1973 on September 28, 2007 at 2:50 PM

Truther’s are nuts and they give “conspiracy theorist” a bad name and YOU should be concerned about that because YOU are a “conspiracy theorist.” Don’t you try to deny it !! You absolutely are a “conspiracy theorist” if you believe that two commercial aircraft were hi-jacked by Islamics and flown into the World Trade Center towers, which is what I believe because it is so obviously true and has been so obviously true from nearly the moment it happened. Nevertheless, if you believe that, you are a “conspiracy theorist.”

The hi-jackers made a plan to take over those aircraft and they did it, and that is a conspiracy by definition. My only point in saying this is to point out that it is equally naive to believer conspiracies never happen. The mainstream version of what happened that day also involved a conspiracy, conspiracies do happen. While the Truthers well deserve whatever ridicule they get, not everyone who mentions the possibility of a conspiracy is automatically a nut.

Maxx on September 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM

I argue regularly with 2 Truthers…who always seem to come back with the “hole in the Pentagon” and WTC7 discussion…those seem to be their best “defense” of a conspiracy. Even tho they have both been adequately debunked.

The majority of the Truther’s defense arguments always seems to be more YouTube vids purporting to show “proof” of demolition at WTC7. And these new vids pop up at a rapid rate.

And then there’s the rest of the story….FEMA concentration camps, chem-trails, New World Order, and such. They aren’t “stupid” people, these Truthers, and they come from all walks of life. The 2 I know are both Republican as well.

JetBoy on September 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM

I have to disagree. What truthers (and conspiracists in general) lack is not intelligence but a sense of proportion. I’m no Dr. Helen, but my gut evaluation of truthers is that they were is that they were the brainy kids that were interested in stuff no one around them could even understand. After awhile this results in a general disdain for their peers and a belief that, on any given topic, they know more than anyone else. This leads naturally to a contempt for conventional wisdom, common sense or popular opinion.

Also, there is a certain prefernce for “logic” over “facts”. Trouble is, of course, that you can prove any damn thing if you never have to validate your starting assumptions.

JackOfClubs on September 28, 2007 at 2:46 PM

No, if they were the brainy kids they would understand things like chemistry and basic physics. They would also understand the value of listening to evidence produced by actual scientists. Furthermore regarding your assertion about logic, thats also another point that clearly indicates that truthers definitely are not the brainy kids.

Logic actually has very specific rules to it. Were the truthers the brainy kids they would know what those rules are and would not so consistently abuse those rules interjecting the most common and basic of logic fallacies into their arguments.

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 2:56 PM

In fairness to Avery, he claims that they are sticking with the demolition theory and that the History Channel took that quote out of context.

They are dropping the cell phone thing though, and a host of other theories. Quite embarassingly it was revealed earlier this week that they are dropping the Willie Rodriquez bombs in the basement theory, apparently because Willie demanded a cut of the loot.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/09/troofer-wars-dylan-avery-vs-william.html

This came out by posts on the Loose Change Forum by Avery and Rodriguez themselves, although it was swiftly deleted.

Thank God for screencaptures.

JamesB on September 28, 2007 at 2:57 PM

In fairness to Avery, he claims that they are sticking with the demolition theory and that the History Channel took that quote out of context.

JamesB on September 28, 2007 at 2:57 PM

Yeah, that’s another thing I wanted to mention. That the Truthers believe films like the History Channel special had quotes out of context, that they used less-than-genuine ways to get in to talk to members of the Truth movement, that they used only clips that showed Avery and others when they stammered a bit, or blinked their eyes too much….all to show the Truthers in some perceived worst way possible.

On the other hand, the Truthers claim also that the debunkers were shown in nice offices, better lighting, better clips…so apparently showing the skepticks in a better way.

So generally, the Truthers believe the History Channel special was entirely skewed against them.

JetBoy on September 28, 2007 at 3:04 PM

My favorite is GW taking a black project time machine and murdering the lindburg baby.

james hooker on September 28, 2007 at 3:06 PM

Screw that. There should be consequences for being an idiot. A harmful idiot. He never APOLOGIZED for all of the pain and anger he caused.

He should also acknowledge that he is not only a follower but has limited reasoning skills to get caught up in this crap.

No he should not only suffer, he should stick his neck out to get sucker punched by his comrades. He needs to do more than get off the hook with a blog message.

Personal shame is not enough. He should dedicate 10 hours for every one he spent propagating this filth.

He should lose his girlfriend too. The one he got as a bonus for getting into this crap and becoming president.

Agrippa2k on September 28, 2007 at 3:07 PM

JetBoy on September 28, 2007 at 3:04 PM

LOL! How true. “They’re taking my quotes out of context! Now, let me tell you what ‘Pull It’ REALLY mean.”

BohicaTwentyTwo on September 28, 2007 at 3:17 PM

In a nearby strip mall, there is a “truther car” usually parked there on a daily basis. The owner clearly works at a store there.

It carries a bumper sticker, “9/11 was and inside job.” No doubt, the onwner is a truther.

I don’t know who drives the vehicle, but everytime I see it parked, I get tempted to have a bumper sticker made up to go over theirs that reads: “The driver of this vehicle is an idiot.”

That would be vandalism and wrong, but the thought entertains me anyway.

georgej on September 28, 2007 at 3:18 PM

Amy Goodman was in on it!

Seriously, if you believe the troofers, fifteen SkyDomes couldn’t hold all the people who really carried out the 9/11 attacks.

Damian P. on September 28, 2007 at 3:20 PM

In a nearby strip mall, there is a “truther car” usually parked there on a daily basis. The owner clearly works at a store there.

It carries a bumper sticker, “9/11 was and inside job.” No doubt, the onwner is a truther.

I don’t know who drives the vehicle, but everytime I see it parked, I get tempted to have a bumper sticker made up to go over theirs that reads: “The driver of this vehicle is an idiot.”

That would be vandalism and wrong, but the thought entertains me anyway.

Don’t let that stop you. Simply kung fu the argument back at them. Can they account for every minute they were away from the vehicle? Can they prove it wasn’t a false flag operation to justify their invasion of your day? Hey, you’re just asking questions…

trubble on September 28, 2007 at 3:28 PM

How long before division over interpretation or how much to emphasize one theory over another splits these boys up like the Palestinian factions in The Life of Brian?

I’m ok with the Judean People’s Front, it’s the People’s Front of Judea you have to watch out for.

trubble on September 28, 2007 at 3:29 PM

JetBoy – how do you NOT skew a documentary against someone who is pretty much completely wrong about everything, can’t back up their arguments, falsely accuses large numbers of strangers they frequently can’t even name of mass murder without any evidence, and generally present themselves as ignorant boobs?

I mean, I’m pretty sure the History Channel did the best they could.

Merovign on September 28, 2007 at 3:34 PM

Maxx on September 28, 2007 at 1:44 PM

WTF, that was out of left field. You are obsessed by evolution or lack of?

How’s this; this is just like the guys who debunk evolution, everytime one of their theories are shot down, they make up a new one.
Makes about the same sense.

right2bright on September 28, 2007 at 3:35 PM

It’s clear to me from their editing strategy talks that Loose Change producers know all too well that what they are peddling is all lies. I get the feeling that the project started out as a fun game for them. Then turned into a their path to fame and fortune. The fact that they all but admit out loud that the whole thing is an exercise in manipulation of weak minds, points out just how evil these punk kids are.

greggish on September 28, 2007 at 3:36 PM

oops, Thanks Bryan, didn’t see you put him in his place.

right2bright on September 28, 2007 at 3:37 PM

Part of me wants – badly and literally – to track down these little boys and kill them. I realize even the suggestion is a banning offense, but frankly they are doing egregious harm to their country and to thousands of victims’ families. No sane jury of my peers would convict me. They are committing treason.

But the more rational part of me realizes something else, and it convinces me that in the end, these little boys will face a punishment far greater than I’d like to mete out. And I don’t mean from God (although they might want to think about it).

No, here’s the thing. No matter how self-brainwashed they are, as they grow into a little maturity, sooner or later they’ll ask themselves: what if we’re wrong?

I’m actually curious to whether they ever consider it now.

But when they do ask the question, just the possibility that they’re wrong ought to open their eyes to the enormous pain they’re causing.

Once that happens … they may actually look at, you know, evidence. Facts. Common sense. Logic.

When it happens – and they’ll be between 35-40 when it does – they’re going to be hit with the enormity of what they’ve done. The incalculable pain they’ve created. They’ll realize that they committed an evil greater than even the one they imagine, maybe even greater than the what the terrorists themselves committed. That they are, in fact, evil themselves.

And they’ll have to live with it.

A lot of us have regrets about our foolish youth. I have guilt about stupid things I did. But imagine what these fools will feel. Imagine what they have to live with. Imagine knowing the wives and children and parents of 3000 people – not to mention 300 million Americans – were damaged by what you did.

They’ll figure it out. Sooner or later. In 15 or 20 years, they’ll be in a Hell of their own making. Even before they get to the literal one.

That makes me smile. The smug, unthinking bastards.

Professor Blather on September 28, 2007 at 3:44 PM

Merovign on September 28, 2007 at 3:34 PM

Hey, that’s not me making the claim that the History Channel deliberately skewed their documentary against the Truthers…the Truthers are the one’s saying that.

JetBoy on September 28, 2007 at 3:46 PM

Part of me wants – badly and literally – to track down these little boys and kill them.

Professor Blather on September 28, 2007 at 3:44 PM

So, you do work for the Illuminati, eh?

(I couldn’t resist….

;-)

JetBoy on September 28, 2007 at 3:48 PM

I must admit, a few months after 9/11, I heard a theory that I gave thought to. It went like this:
“When the WTC was built, explosives were put next to the main supporting beams, so that if something catastrophic happened, the building could be brought down so they wouldn’t tip over and kill more people”. Of course, this was “top secret” stuff and no one but a few knew about it. The reason they were set off on 9/11 (the theory went) was to prevent more deaths.
I thought about it, and it made me wonder. Then I came back to reality. I don’t feel guilty for wondering about it. Because I snapped out of it and realized it was just plain stupid.

SuperManGreenLantern on September 28, 2007 at 3:48 PM

Just noticing but is allahpundit on vaction or something?

submarine_guy on September 28, 2007 at 1:59 PM

Recovering from oral surgery I believe…

doriangrey on September 28, 2007 at 2:01 PM

Oral Surgery? Is that a clever way of saying Rosie tracked him down and bit him repeatedly?

GoodBoy on September 28, 2007 at 3:51 PM

That would be vandalism and wrong, but the thought entertains me anyway.
georgej on September 28, 2007 at 3:18 PM

Show me where it is, I’ll do it for you.
I will.
If you live near me. :)

SuperManGreenLantern on September 28, 2007 at 3:52 PM

right2bright on September 28, 2007 at 3:35 PM

I was wrong to bring that into the thread, my bad.

Maxx on September 28, 2007 at 3:53 PM

So, you do work for the Illuminati, eh?

JetBoy on September 28, 2007 at 3:48 PM

Only on weekends and holidays. They pay time and a half.

Professor Blather on September 28, 2007 at 3:56 PM

I don’t think it was the History Channel’s fault that the Truthers were working out of a dark bedroom in mommy’s house and the experts actually worked in, you know–real places of business with real working lights! The truthers were shown in their own light and well, the truth came out.

robblefarian on September 28, 2007 at 3:58 PM

In the absence of these people being of any interest or above average in intelligence, they are looking for something to make them feel “special”.

The reason the rest of the universe isn’t rushing to explain why their half-baked fantasies are pure manure is that nobody of substance cares what these idiots think. Much like the insane cult that tries over and over again to prove there were no moon landings, these people are using up mental energy with their mediocre brains that should be memorizing Star War dialog or Star Trek episode numbers.

What brings the attention to these lame stooges is that their hatred and paranoia of this country is being fueled by the memory of the most murderous attack of innocent life on US Soil. It happened like it was reported and a bunch of less than stellar minds can wish it ain’t so all they wish.

Hening on September 28, 2007 at 4:01 PM

Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it’s a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there’s a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
Tony Giardino: So who’s in this Pentavirate?
Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. “Oh, you’re gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!”

saltydogg14 on September 28, 2007 at 4:04 PM

boobs

Somebody say something about boobs? I like boobs…

urbancenturion on September 28, 2007 at 4:06 PM

Truthers are mostly victims of what I call “Only Child Syndrome” wherein someone grows up without the benefit of someone to whack them upside the head when they do or say something stupid. It has spread to many who do have siblings as a result of our current self esteem obsession.
In the past, “only children” were the most likely to be insulated from criticism but now, with smaller families and an abiding fear of damaging their wittle feewings, we are creating an entire generation of people incapable of self-censorship or critisism.

TBinSTL on September 28, 2007 at 4:22 PM

Ok, boys. Why don’t you take a break and go skateboarding? Then maybe later, IF you’re good, you can play with the X box…

JWS on September 28, 2007 at 4:39 PM

Or so it seemed. After watching Screw Loose Change, I delved into the world of 9/11 Truth debunking. Among my favorites are the Screw Loose Change Blog and 9/11 Myths Finally, someone was answered all these pertinent questions with something that was a bit foreign to me… facts agreed upon by the experts.

The problem is, it takes more study to learn and accept the facts… But it’s much easier to fall in to the trap of Trutherism when watching a cleverly put together movie with scary music that appeals to everyone’s need to feel like there is someone out there to blame and that there’s someone in control (rather than the inability to tell that at any moment Muslims terrorists could attack and we may not know it’s coming). The psychology of the conspiracy theorist has been repeated dozens of times, I don’t need to go in to it all again.

Anyway:

Now, I happen to think that there are signs here and there that others within the core of the Truth movement are having second thoughts. Or, at the very least, that they realize that they’re losing ground on the factual arguments.

Sorry Bry, but from what I’ve seen, the Truther movement has only continued to grow substantially, and I always have to remind everyone – I feel that we’re headed for 50% of the population being some form of 9/11 Truther within a decade. I’m glad to see one got out, but I don’t think there’s hope for many more.

RightWinged on September 28, 2007 at 4:54 PM

They’re tacitly acknowledging that they have lost the debate on those two points and that the experts have won, so they are now switching to theories that haven’t been debunked as thoroughly. How long before division over interpretation or how much to emphasize one theory over another splits these boys up like the Palestinian factions in The Life of Brian?

Uhm, there are still people who believe that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor before hand. I suspect that there will be truthers for the next century. They’ll just be skimpy about the facts.

thuja on September 28, 2007 at 5:01 PM

saltydogg14 on September 28, 2007 at 4:04 PM

“So I Married an Axe Murderer” is the most under-rated, under-quoted Mike Myers movie in history. The Austin Powers and Wayne’s World movies all pale in comparison. There are countless quotable lines in that movie … and that’s even if you don’t count the “poetry.”

And aren’t you glad at least one of us knew what you were babbling about?

Professor Blather on September 28, 2007 at 5:50 PM

And that’s the real problem, schools for some reason are not instilling critical thought into kids these days.

lorien1973 on September 28, 2007 at 2:42 PM

They can’t afford to. Otherwise, the kids (who will one day grow into adults) might start to question why so many people that would be incapable of holding down a job out in the “real” world of production jobs have guaranteed job security, pay increases, and often substantial pensions.*

Besides, critical thinking is intolerant. Didn’t your teachers drill into you that it was BAD to be discriminating?

Indiscriminateness is the very lifeblood of political correctness and modern liberalism.

*Not to knock teachers (I am one), but the schools, much like government jobs, have all-to-often become havens for the minimally skilled or motivated.

Harpazo on September 28, 2007 at 6:23 PM

And when there story gets challenged and debunked its back into the editing room to fix the lie, wow that’s real scientific.

I am just waiting for one of these so called investigators tools to say
“I am not a structural engineer but I did stay at a holiday express”

Mojack420 on September 28, 2007 at 7:04 PM

Truther’s are nuts and they give “conspiracy theorist” a bad name and YOU should be concerned about that because YOU are a “conspiracy theorist.” Don’t you try to deny it !! You absolutely are a “conspiracy theorist” if you believe that two commercial aircraft were hi-jacked by Islamics and flown into the World Trade Center towers, which is what I believe because it is so obviously true and has been so obviously true from nearly the moment it happened. Nevertheless, if you believe that, you are a “conspiracy theorist.”

Maxx on September 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM

Bryan! Clean-up on aisle two!

John from WuzzaDem on September 28, 2007 at 7:14 PM

They believe it with religious fervor and will not be persuaded by facts.
The Truthers have moved into “cult-hood”

TheSitRep on September 28, 2007 at 7:15 PM

I hope I’m not venturing into “thread hijacking” here, but the point seems relevant.

On the night before “Signs” with Mel Gibson opened (remember the crop circle movie?), either Discovery or History channel did an expose on the 3 or 4 British engineering grads who claimed that they had been traveling around the world making elaborate crop circles. Then they filmed them making the most astounding crop circle ever seen. Proof beyond doubt that 3 guys with 2x4s and an 8-foot section of rope could make crop circles of spectacular composition.

Six years later, we still see crop circle documentaries.

People don’t like to give up on stupid. The troofers will be with us forever. Hopefully the volume will go down a lot.

thejackal on September 28, 2007 at 7:43 PM

These guys need to stop watching the X-Files 24/7 and get a life. It’s warped their minds to the point they think anything they see was engineered by some secret society or government conspiracy. Maybe they should start some kind of treatment program for these nuts like they for drug users or alcoholics. Of course, they would think that bringing them back to reality might be some conspiracy to shut them up. Problem is, they’re right! I damn tired of hearing their cockamamie stories they conjure up everyday and get dis-proven constantly.

PB

Planet Boulder on September 28, 2007 at 7:48 PM

How do you even debate someone who rejects the basic laws of physics???

Mojave Mark on September 28, 2007 at 8:27 PM

The MSM needed to marginalize the Troofers because they made the Dem candidates uncomfortable. Remember when a troofer asked Edwards about bldg 7 and he pretended not to hear, then when the troofer repeated, Edwards said he would investigate?

Personally, I’m disappointed because forcing the Dems candidates to answer the troofers is a lose-lose game: Take them seriously and you’re a kook. Ignore them and incur the nutroots wrath.

I wish someone would ask Hillary and Obama if they believe in the Troof story of 9/11.

kooly on September 28, 2007 at 9:12 PM

They want to undermine America, not find the Truth.

And to diffuse our rational self-defense against determined Islamofascists with irrational irrelevancies.

profitsbeard on September 28, 2007 at 9:15 PM

It is amazing to me that people can hate their own country so much that they buy into this kind of garbage… although I guess I shouldn’t be suprised by anything anymore.

submarine_guy on September 28, 2007 at 2:08 PM

Ultimately, they just hate themselves — who they are what they have or, in some cases, haven’t become…

eanax on September 28, 2007 at 10:07 PM

They aren’t “stupid” people, these Truthers, and they come from all walks of life. The 2 I know are both Republican as well.

JetBoy on September 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM

They are if they ignore facts, basic science, and all of the other evidence. Their political affiliation means absolutely zero…

eanax on September 28, 2007 at 10:14 PM

They’ll figure it out. Sooner or later. In 15 or 20 years, they’ll be in a Hell of their own making. Even before they get to the literal one.

Professor Blather on September 28, 2007 at 3:44 PM

I agree, and it’s called Burger King.

omnipotent on September 29, 2007 at 12:46 AM

Controlled demolitions: absolute bullshit. Now, I know there are some legitimate inconsistencies in the story that can’t be proven false. My problem, and your problem as well, is that we have been blatantly misled by people who are only interested in selling dvds and t-shirts..

Dan Rather finds a home!

Topsecretk9 on September 29, 2007 at 1:08 AM

The truthers obviously haven’t seen THIS, or they are too selfish to care.

WARNING: LINK IS EXTREMELY GRAPHIC photographs of American dead, killed by Islamic terrorists on 9/11/01. These photos are from evidence presented during the Moussaoui trial. USE DISCRETION. IT VERY DISTURBING!! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

The memory of these innocent Americans is who we are fighting the war on terror for.

mojojojo on September 29, 2007 at 1:58 AM

The truthers obviously haven’t seen THIS, or they are too selfish to care.

mojojojo on September 29, 2007 at 1:58 AM

The red doper diaper babies obviously don’t.

Texyank on September 29, 2007 at 10:29 AM

Now if only some of these truthers could be forced to make amends for the pain and suffering they’ve caused countless survivors who lost loved ones in the terrorist attacks.

I was on a flight that left CT at almost the precise moment of the hijacked flights. How do the truthers account for the fact that all U.S. air traffic was grounded because of the attacks, an unprecedented occurrence in U.S. aviation?

Captain Scarlet on September 29, 2007 at 12:20 PM

Truther’s are nuts and they give “conspiracy theorist” a bad name and YOU should be concerned about that because YOU are a “conspiracy theorist.” Don’t you try to deny it !! You absolutely are a “conspiracy theorist” if you believe that two commercial aircraft were hi-jacked by Islamics and flown into the World Trade Center towers, which is what I believe because it is so obviously true and has been so obviously true from nearly the moment it happened. Nevertheless, if you believe that, you are a “conspiracy theorist.”

Maxx on September 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM

Nyet! No worries – we aren’t conspiracy theorists. There’s a difference between believing a conspiracy occurred and believing in a conspiracy theory. The 9/11 conspiracy between Osama Bin Laden’s organization and the 19 hijackers is on the record, so it’s not theoretical. The planes flying into 9/11 target sites were witnessed by the entire world, and the plan was admitted to by the main perpetrator – I hope you agree these ought not be diminished by applying the word “theory”.

Michael Medved has explained the difference very well IMHO on his broadcasts, and I’d have to concur with (and demur to) his take on the subject.

Bryan! Clean-up on aisle two!

John from WuzzaDem on September 28, 2007 at 7:14 PM

Maxx, I imagine you were partially kidding ;-) I just wanted to get this on the record since no one else had responded…

RD on September 29, 2007 at 1:06 PM

Indiscriminateness is the very lifeblood of political correctness and modern liberalism.

Harpazo on September 28, 2007 at 6:23 PM

Thank you so much for the link. It’s mandatory viewing for lowercase liberals like me, as the speaker points out exactly where so-called Liberals made the abrupt left turn in their reasoning apparatus. I’ll also be foisting the link onto my aloof and surly leftist acquaintances and requesting they watch it as well. (Ah, but will they? And what will their reactions be?)

RD on September 29, 2007 at 1:34 PM

… I hope you agree these ought not be diminished by applying the word “theory”.

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to aim that at you specifically :-) All I’m suggesting is, not even a Truther would necessarily equate our “belief” in the Bin Laden organization’s culpability with a Truther-style conspiracy theory, since the two are utterly different, and even many of the morons out there are aware of it. (But certainly something to watch out for…)

RD on September 29, 2007 at 2:22 PM

Last part of the volley, I promise ;-)

While the Truthers well deserve whatever ridicule they get, not everyone who mentions the possibility of a conspiracy is automatically a nut.

Maxx on September 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM

No shinola, Sherlock – again, I hope your comment was meant as satire. Conspiracy charges can be pursued against suspects in our criminal justice system, and often are. Conspiracies occur all the time, all over the place, and there’s usually plenty of evidence leading to the culprits. Occasionally conspiracies are revealed without prior evidence (such as the Libyan nuclear program, carried out total secret, in cooperation with at least one other nation-state). But in those cases, what is revealed is the activity itself, not an explanation or theory for some other phenomenon.

Conspiracy theories, however, are another matter. They usually arise before any evidence is gathered, and usually attempt to explain some other phenomenon in terms of itself. Such as:

- U.S. soldiers have been given orders to shoot independent journalists in Iraq to keep them from finding out The Neocon Truth, wile embedded journos are treated to fake dog-and-pony shows;
- the U.S. did not reach the moon, but had the need or desire to make it seem as if it had, so it staged the Moon landings in a sound stage in Burbank; and
- the Middle East was at peace with the United States, but this didn’t suit our evil government, so it staged a series of elaborate acts of war against the homeland in order to create a pretext for violence against peaceful foreigners.

RD on September 29, 2007 at 2:47 PM

RD on September 29, 2007 at 2:47 PM

RD.. when you read my post you must have missed this part.

My only point in saying this is to point out that it is equally naive to believer conspiracies never happen.

Maxx on September 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM

That’s all I’m saying. A conspiracy is nothing more than two or more people plotting in secret to do some evil or illegal act. It happens all the time and we shouldn’t lose sight of that.

For example, do you think Mr. Hsu may have plotted with other persons to illegally put money into the hands of Democrats ? I think he did, the evidence is pretty good for it right now and it fits with prior Democratic fund raising shenanigans. While it’s not proven, its not unreasonable to believe he may have conspired to make illegal campaign contributions. At this point, it’s just a conspiracy theory and a very reasonable one at that.

Yes, the “Truthers” are nuts, their conspiracy theory borders on psychotic.

Nevertheless, people often plot in secret to do injurious or illegal acts and we should not automatically dismiss and run from every expressed concern that gets labeled as a conspiracy theory. That’s my only point.

Maxx on September 29, 2007 at 5:56 PM

these Truthers, and they come from all walks of life. The 2 I know are both Republican as well.

JetBoy on September 28, 2007 at 2:52 PM

Let me guess, Their names were Ron Paul.

Gwillie on September 29, 2007 at 8:05 PM

What was that guy’s name who went after Danny Bonaduce and spouted trutherism and George Bush “Skull and Bones”?

That guy is one of the biggest idiots on earth.

Black Adam on September 29, 2007 at 9:27 PM

Let me guess, Their names were Ron Paul.

Gwillie on September 29, 2007 at 8:05 PM

Ha, no…but they do support that nut.

JetBoy on September 29, 2007 at 10:22 PM

Let me guess, Their names were Ron Paul.

Gwillie on September 29, 2007 at 8:05 PM

Or were their names Moe and Bea?

Random Numbers (Brian Epps) on September 30, 2007 at 12:29 AM