Reid pulls the DREAM Act out of DoD bill

posted at 8:52 am on September 27, 2007 by Bryan

The DREAM Act would give in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens, and it had no place in a Defense bill. Though Reid has pulled it out of the war spending bill, it’s not dead yet.

Majority Leader Sen. Reid (D-NV) has apparently decided that the DREAM Act will not be voted on as an amendment to the DoD bill. He hopes, however, to have this measure voted on by some time in November.

Read the rest for a bit more reaction. Reid’s office has posted a press release reiterating his support for the DREAM Act, in English and Spanish.

Rest assured, Reid will go to bat for all those “undocumented Americans” as soon as he can.

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Who do these people think they are? So, now it is a good thing to be an illegal alien. Can my kids be illegal aliens in another state? I’d like some of that instate tuition.

bloggless on September 27, 2007 at 8:56 AM

Yes, well that may not be better for us. I know for one, Martinez was voting against it simply because it was in the DoD bill. We have to find out how many “No” votes we have committed now that it’s a separate measure.

amerpundit on September 27, 2007 at 8:58 AM

Reid is such a jackass. I agree with “bloggless” . . . how do my grandkids apply for “illegal alien” status and qualify for all the free stuff.

rplat on September 27, 2007 at 9:01 AM

Did anyone ever find little Timmy or Tommy?

bbz123 on September 27, 2007 at 9:02 AM

Indeed. We need to know who was against it because it was in the DoD bill as well as who was for it due to being in the DoD bill.

What is Reid talking about. Gas prices have dropped $.40 in my area in the last six weeks. Either he is referencing an outdated poll, or is out of touch with reality.

My guess it is both!!

PappaMac on September 27, 2007 at 9:06 AM

bbz123 on September 27, 2007 at 9:02 AM

No. He ran away with Arlen Specter’s gym friend.

amerpundit on September 27, 2007 at 9:06 AM

We need to come down hard on any Republican who is for Shamnesty in whatever form it arises. Hey John McCain, how’s that presidential campaign going? Anybody else want some of what John’s got?

Zetterson on September 27, 2007 at 9:15 AM

I’d really like some of that tuition.

So should I renounce my citizenship and get free money?

Keljeck on September 27, 2007 at 9:18 AM

Hey Reid….how about letting the WWII-to-VietNam era vets get their VA education benefits back? There are a lot of us older guys who could use a little more book learning to help us compete for those jobs Americans won’t do.

Limerick on September 27, 2007 at 9:20 AM

Senator Reid:

“The DREAM Act would allow children who have grown-up in the United States — brought smuggled here by their parents through no fault of their own — to legalize their status snub their noses at current immigration laws. The DREAM Act recognizes that children should not be penalized for the actions crimes of their parents.

Many of these children came were illegally smuggled in here when they were very young. Many don’t even remember their home countries or yet they still speak the language of their home countries. They think of themselves as American and they are just as loyal and devoted to our country as any American Democrat senator.”

Fixed it for ya.

fogw on September 27, 2007 at 9:22 AM

At least the despicable damn Drean Act is stopped, albeit just for the time being. Horrible creature that Reid is …

darwin on September 27, 2007 at 9:28 AM

Orrin Hatch, who is reliably conservative on most issues, wrote this crappy bill. With that, he jumped the shark. The bill needs to die, and Hatch needs to be sent packing back to his home in PA.

Wingo on September 27, 2007 at 9:34 AM

My DREAM Act would have them deported and the Anchor Baby loophole removed.*

*To the leftists who are outraged, sorry but 1/3 of my family is Mexican and they feel the same way.

Tim Burton on September 27, 2007 at 9:52 AM

“Undocumented Americans”?!!

Like the man who never had a passport and lost his license due to a DWI?

Or the lady who got married and didn’t know she had to update her Social Security card?

Please, Harry, let me explain something to you – though I don’t know whether small enough words exist to ensure you will understand.

American = citizen. Therefore, non-citizen US residents are not Americans even if they came here legally.

People who weren’t willing to go through the proper steps to enter our country legally are criminals and therefore have no right to be here – regardless of their reasons for coming, how long they manage to remain undetected, or how many children they brought with them and/or bear after arrival.

One thing that makes America great is that we are a country of laws. Lending legitimacy to the lawless is one sure way to destroy this country. Is that your goal, Senator?

Wingo on September 27, 2007 at 10:06 AM

How about that?

The Senate Majority whip Dick Durbin inserts the Dream Act into the DoD appropriations bill and the Senate Majority leader Harry Reid removes it.

The top two elected officials in the Senate, from the same party, are at odds with eachother.

gabriel sutherland on September 27, 2007 at 10:07 AM

Poor Tommy.

WisCon on September 27, 2007 at 10:13 AM

The sooner these traitors are outed for the Communists they are the better off we all are. What a scumbag!

Egfrow on September 27, 2007 at 10:14 AM

So,
If the DREAM bill was law, and I went to pay for my college and did not bring any identification, would the college somehow have to PROVE I was a citizen to charge me higher rates, or would they have to give me the lower rate. OR, would they look at my skin color to see what rate I would pay?

SYD

syncrodude on September 27, 2007 at 10:21 AM

syncrodude, you will need to apply for Illegal Alien status.
And take Spanish lessons.

bloggless on September 27, 2007 at 10:24 AM

Who do these people think they are?
Well, they think they are the ruling elite and that they can get away with this crap. I think psychiatric drugs may have something to do with it too, they dull the natural sense shame that would keep a normal human from being so despotic and entitled.
SYD has a great question. Perhaps we should tint our son’s skin so that the college of his choice would give him a full scholarship. He just happens to be a high school senior. Great timing huh?
Just to be consistent: The European nations didn’t have a say-so either. Do the research.

Christine on September 27, 2007 at 10:28 AM

OK,
So I go to apply for illegal alien status. I produce no ID. I just claim to be an illegal. How would the decision be made whether or not to grant me illegal alien status? I am a white male. Would I be denied illegal alien status based on my skin color?

This is the biggest fallacy of this whole dammed bill. Since illegals don’t have “documentation”, there is no basis for “proving legally” one’s illegal status. Anybody can walk up with no ID on them and claim to be an illegal. If there is no penalty, why not? Then, the benefits of being illegal are now available. If everyone started doing this, what would be the basis for denial? Lack of documentation cannot be proof of a condition. It leaves our government in the position of proving a negative in order to deny acceptance of the status. The only thing left to base a denial on is by looking at the person to see if they “look” illegal, or “sound” illegal. This puts us squarely back to racial profiling, something the democrats have stood against. Only this racial discrimination is in the direction they want.

SYD

SYD

syncrodude on September 27, 2007 at 10:38 AM

When GOP senators from reliably RED STATES (like Graham-Amnesty of SC, John Kyl of AZ, Richard Lugar of Indiana, Trent Lott of MI, John McCain of AZ, Brownback of Kansas, Bennett of Utah) plus GOP senators from
not-so reliably RED STATES like Mel Martinez of Florida, Voinovich of Ohio, Sununu of New Hamphshire, Gregg of New Hampshire plus the GOP Republican–In–Name–Only group, together all vote in favor of rewarding illegal aliens with the gift of USA citizenship, it makes me wonder?

Does the GOP, along with the Democrats, want to throw away the Constitution and our country so quickly?

I thought the GOP was different from the left-wing Democrats.

Just think if this latest push for amnesty passes, it will be the EIGHTH AMNESTY given to illegal aliens SINCE 1986.

ColtsFan on September 27, 2007 at 10:43 AM

What about the children? Those poor “undocumented” children?

What ever will they do, eating food paid for by my tax dollars, already getting a free education in secondary schools, and living in government housing, also on my dime.

Won’t someone please think of the children?

madmonkphotog on September 27, 2007 at 10:47 AM

Man I am serious starting to think we should be looking for a way to deport our senators and congressmen along with the illegal aliens.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 10:52 AM

I’m a little down on the curve in knowing about the details of this proposal. Does this proposed legislation plan to fund the difference in costs to the state via grant applications by illegal aliens or as block grants to the states, the sizes of which are established by number of illegals enrolled?

If neither, then this legislation has all the characteristics of an unfunded mandate, which will have to be paid via state taxes. Have the Democrats explained why they believe the federal government has the authority to usurp the authority and perogatives of the states in establishing the requirements of their state universities programs/policies?

Have the Democrats explained why they believe the federal government now has the authority to distribute privileges to one group of people and not have to treat all people equally, especially considering the group of people they propose to favor with their largesse are neither citizens nor legal residents?

[Wingo on September 27, 2007 at 9:34 AM]
Seriously, did Hatch write help the bill? Is he a co-sponsor?

Dusty on September 27, 2007 at 11:00 AM

Won’t someone please think of the children?

I will! Remove that picture of Reid because it’s been known to curdle breast milk!

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on September 27, 2007 at 11:01 AM

Ahh, there is power in the common man. I have been a very active contributor to Numbers, USA. The faxes they provide can be edited anyway you choose, and the Senators and Reps DO read them. I know that for a fact because Sens. Coleman and Klobochar have sent me response letters ( albeit some are form, I will admit) and have called my home. If Reid thinks November is a safe time, I and my compatriots are ready.

MNDavenotPC on September 27, 2007 at 11:13 AM

Tommy’s “friend” will have to wait a few more months before he gets his tuition break.

Tommy’s “friend” is here doing the jobs Americans don’t want to do. After he goes to college, he’ll start taking jobs that Americans want to do away from them.

Mallard T. Drake on September 27, 2007 at 11:17 AM

I have a friend who was deported from Norway for attempting to enter with the improper documents. Friggin’ Norway, fercryinoutloud!

He was detained at Fornebu airport for the entire day, spent the night in jail, and was sent to London where he was met at Heathrow by a representative from the US consulate. He was escorted directly to the US Embassy where he remained for 3 days until he could get his visa approved and was allowed to return.

That was almost 20 years ago. Today Norway is overrun by third world “refugees.” But the government there knows who they are and where they live because, if they move and fail to register with the local police within 30 days, the first time they collect a paycheck, try to open a bank account or register for phone service or utilities they will be arrested and sent packing immediately.

It can be done. If our elected representatives won’t take care of it, we need to elect someone who will.

Wingo on September 27, 2007 at 11:18 AM

Dusty on September 27, 2007 at 11:00 AM

The DREAM act was initially introduced by Hatch about 3 years ago. He said that the children of illegals should be entitled to in-state tuition if their parents have been working and paying taxes in the state where the kids are attending college.

That’s fine, but it needs to be weighed against the burden they have already placed on primary and secondary schools, state welfare, medicaid etc. I seriously doubt their taxes would cover the benefits they have already gotten in return.

Wingo on September 27, 2007 at 11:26 AM

Thanks MNDavenot, and me too. This November will be a warm up for next year.

Christine on September 27, 2007 at 11:31 AM

Thanks MNDavenot, and me too. This November will be a warm up for next year.

Christine on September 27, 2007 at 11:31 AM

I hope you guys make it so dang hot some of our senators and congressmen start to think the fires of he11 have caught up with their a$$es.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 11:35 AM

The Greek and Roman civilizations rotted away from within and now the great U.S. is doing the same. Someone had to vote for these treasonous creatures like Reid. It’s a democracy, right, majority rules. People in this country obviously want a Mexican dominated land otherwise jerks like Reid would be voted out. Maybe people want a country like Mexico where 10% are very rich and run things and 90% are poor and scratch out a living working for peanuts in the tourist trade or picking crops; everyone is strapped; police and government officials are easily bribed; and on and on. Is this what we want? Wake up America, before it’s too late! Kick these bums out of office!

countywolf on September 27, 2007 at 11:39 AM

Tommy’s “friend” is here doing the jobs Americans don’t want to do. After he goes to college, he’ll start taking jobs that Americans want to do away from them.

Mallard T. Drake on September 27, 2007 at 11:17 AM

Uh, Mexicans don’t go to college in any significant numbers. When they do, they don’t end up in any of the difficult classes. They usually major in Chicano studies or some other humanities major. I did see a few Latinos in some of my EE classes, but they were by an large more Castillian Spanish in appearance than mestizo.

The biggest thing you can do, if you’re young and white and want to reverse this trend, is to have children. Demographically, this country will be majority Latino in a couple of decades. The politicians are just electing a new population, and they’re getting away with it because white Americans are demographically weak.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 11:43 AM

The Greek and Roman civilizations rotted away from within and now the great U.S. is doing the same.

Yes, but that rotting took the form of having no children.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 11:45 AM

I know there have been some critical comments made about Senator Harry Reid, who is a liberal Democrat senator from a GOP-leaning RED STATE.

But Harry Reid is a great politician (I did not say “leader”–just politician).

Once again, Harry Reid is orchestrating a very effective strategy which will EVEN FURTHER tick off the GOP conservative base, and even further inflame hostility directed at the GOP leaders, and lead to even further losses in GOP seats in 2008.

He is a great politician, effectively using “divide and conquer.”

The current GOP leadership is “right in step with George W. Bush,” and they are all out of step with the base.

The GOP may gain a few House seats in 08, but the House will remain Democrat. The Democrats actually will pick up several GOP seats in the Senate. After all, with GOP senate leaders and George W. who are “pro-amnesty,” why should the conservative base go out and vote for them again?

The GOP base has been called “bigots”, “nativists” only because we want to preserve the constitutional distinction between “legal citizen” and “illegal alien.” The Democrats, along with their GOP liberal supporters and RHINO’s, want to first blur that distinction, and then erode it over time, and then ultimately eliminating that distinction. The Constitution will be replaced by the United Nations.

With such liberal leadership by the GOP President and several key GOP senators, why should I vote GOP?

I am so tired of the usual “pragmatic reasons to vote GOP.” When the GOP wakes up and becomes true to its founding principles, then I will return.

I am a conservative, but I am not a Republican.

ColtsFan on September 27, 2007 at 11:48 AM

Hot? You haven’t seen anything! You thought beating back the immigration bill was amazing? Watch our dust! Thank you Christine and thanks Dorian

MNDavenotPC on September 27, 2007 at 11:49 AM

Yes, but that rotting took the form of having no children.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 11:45 AM

Come on, lets not go there. Rome rotted from the inside out because the Roman elite/ruling class were suffering from lead poisoning. The lead poisoning was responsible for their low birth rate and it was responsible for their diminished intellectual capacity, they were literally suffering from dementia caused by lead poisoning.

If we could only find out what is causing our population to suffer from dementia we might be able to save our country from Rome’s fate.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 11:52 AM

Poor Tommy.

WisCon on September 27, 2007 at 10:13 AM

Yeah, he’ll just have to hang out in that airport restroom stall for a couple more months.

infidel4life on September 27, 2007 at 11:55 AM

Hot? You haven’t seen anything! You thought beating back the immigration bill was amazing? Watch our dust! Thank you Christine and thanks Dorian

MNDavenotPC on September 27, 2007 at 11:49 AM

Oh I’ll be watching alright, neither of my treasonous senators (Boxer and Cunningham Fienstien) are up for re-election for a long time, so I will be sitting here getting more and more pissed as time goes by.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 11:56 AM

If we could only find out what is causing our population to suffer from dementia we might be able to save our country from Rome’s fate.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 11:52 AM

You’re from CA. How many kids do you have? I know plenty of middle class to upper class white people who have only two. Actually, the total fertility rate for whites dipped to 1.8 in the 90s in California. The Mexicans have 3.4. Do the math.

As far as the underlying reason for this rotting (not the form it’s taking), I think Francis Schaeffer provided the best answer: loss of the Judeo-Christian cultural consensus that drove the West to the top. This led us to infanticide and low fertility. Certainly, we have more than enough money to raise as many kids as we want.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:02 PM

Should I send a bill to Harry Reid to get partially reimbursed for 4 years of out of state tuition I just finished paying to graduate my oldest? What in the F%#@ are these morons (both sides) thinking???????????????????

commonsensehoosier on September 27, 2007 at 12:06 PM

You’re from CA. How many kids do you have? I know plenty of middle class to upper class white people who have only two. Actually, the total fertility rate for whites dipped to 1.8 in the 90s in California. The Mexicans have 3.4. Do the math.

As far as the underlying reason for this rotting (not the form it’s taking), I think Francis Schaeffer provided the best answer: loss of the Judeo-Christian cultural consensus that drove the West to the top. This led us to infanticide and low fertility. Certainly, we have more than enough money to raise as many kids as we want.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:02 PM

Well at 46 I don’t have any kids, so I guess you can blame it all on me. Having worked as a health physics technician at San Onfre in my nearly 20′s I’m probably not likely to either.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 12:09 PM

I think Francis Schaeffer provided the best answer: loss of the Judeo-Christian cultural consensus that drove the West to the top.

This Judeo-Christian cultural consensus provided the theoretical foundation for the “once-common view” that it is always wrong to reward illegal behavior with the gift of USA citizenship.

The rule of law and the importance of safeguarding liberty and freedom were the consequences of the Judeo-Christian heritage. This hertiage hated all forms of anarchy, and vehemently opposed rewarding illegal behavior with any “incentives.”

It is rather strange that many of the illegal aliens claim to “be Christian”, yet they ignore the fact that Christian political theory emphasizes the rule of law and that all forms of anarchy and lawlessness must be opposed.

To oppose the rule of law, according to Christian political theory, is to oppose God.

ColtsFan on September 27, 2007 at 12:10 PM

It is rather strange that many of the illegal aliens claim to “be Christian”, yet they ignore the fact that Christian political theory emphasizes the rule of law and that all forms of anarchy and lawlessness must be opposed.

They’re about as Christian as a Massachussetts Democrat.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:14 PM

ColtsFan on September 27, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Excellent observation. I’d like to hear how open-borders Cardinal Mahoney would respond to that.

infidel4life on September 27, 2007 at 12:19 PM

Excellent observation. I’d like to hear how open-borders Cardinal Mahoney would respond to that.

infidel4life on September 27, 2007 at 12:19 PM

That would launch us into a Catholic vs. Protestant debate that wouldn’t be germane to this thread.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:21 PM

Let’s do the math! X number of students suddenly qualify for in-state tuition, so there’s a corresponding reduction in revenue to the institution. And who is it exactly who makes up for that shortfall? Oh yeah, they fire a lib professor and double up on class sizes! I see now!!!

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on September 27, 2007 at 12:24 PM

The lead poisoning was responsible for their low birth rate and it was responsible for their diminished intellectual capacity, they were literally suffering from dementia caused by lead poisoning.

If we could only find out what is causing our population to suffer from dementia we might be able to save our country from Rome’s fate.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 11:52 AM

If that’s true, it makes you raise an eyebrow china’s way for the lead in the toys they manufacture and sell us, doesn’t it?

techno_barbarian on September 27, 2007 at 12:26 PM

Let’s do the math! X number of students suddenly qualify for in-state tuition, so there’s a corresponding reduction in revenue to the institution. And who is it exactly who makes up for that shortfall? Oh yeah, they fire a lib professor and double up on class sizes! I see now!!!

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on September 27, 2007 at 12:24 PM

Now that your need for sarcasm has been satisfied, no they will do what democrats always do, raise taxes.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 12:26 PM

The Greek geographer and historian Strabo (63 B.C.E.-21 C.E.) described Greece as “a land entirely deserted; the depopulation begun since long continues. Roman soldiers camp in abandoned houses; Athens is populated by statues.” Plutarch observed that “one would no longer find in Greece 3,000 hoplites [infantrymen].” The historian Polybius (204-122 B.C.E.) wrote: “One remarks nowadays all over Greece such a diminution in natality and in general manner such a depopulation that the towns are deserted and the fields lie fallow. Although this country has not been ravaged by wars or epidemics, the cause of the harm is evident: by avarice or cowardice the people, if they marry, will not bring up the children they ought to have. At most they bring up one or two. It is in this way that the scourge before it is noticed is rapidly developed. The remedy is in ourselves; we have but to change our morals.”

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:27 PM

If that’s true, it makes you raise an eyebrow china’s way for the lead in the toys they manufacture and sell us, doesn’t it?

techno_barbarian on September 27, 2007 at 12:26 PM

*cough* well you know *cough* I’m just sayin…

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 12:28 PM

Over a period of two to three hundred years, starting at the time of Marcus Aurelius Antoninus in 150 C.E., the population of Rome’s western empire fell by more than 80%. Where once there had been six Roman citizens, two to three centuries later there was only one. The consequences of this depopulation included deserted cities and farms; disintegrating roads and water and drainage systems; mosquito-plagued swamps where there had been fields; once-fruitful land overgrazed by sheep herds and eroded. The social and economic chaos resulting from falling fertility in turn resulted in more disease and less food, further depressing fertility. Finally, the deepening shortage of recruits to man the military legions meant depending on barbarian tribes to defend the borders, tribes who ultimately sacked the empire.

The collapse of the Roman population has been ascribed to a number of factors. Increasing urbanization, with absentee landowners who constantly increased their levies on the farmers until their lives became hopeless, has been advanced as one reason by Professor Chaunu. Changing social mores and epidemics have been given as reasons by others. Probably many factors combined to lower fertility, but there is no question about the result: economic and social collapse, finally ushering in the Dark Ages.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:29 PM

The Senate Majority whip Dick Durbin inserts the Dream Act into the DoD appropriations bill and the Senate Majority leader Harry Reid removes it.

The top two elected officials in the Senate, from the same party, are at odds with eachother.

gabriel sutherland on September 27, 2007 at 10:07 AM

Never at odds. DEMs working the game. Good cop/bad cop plus shark testing. Shark bumps victim. If it acts passive it is food. If it kicks back shark tries again later. Durbin gets to play Durbin and stoke his base. Reid takes pulse. Base happy, goose not ready to cook yet so Reid pretends to disagree. Act I, scene II. To be continued ad nauseum.

GOP: Graham, Kyl, Brownback, Lugar, Lott, McCain, Bennet..

Remember when Kyl pretended to be on the side of Tancredo and set up shop on FOX? Remember when Lott pretended to be conservative so he could be a party leader? Remember when McCain was a hero and represented American citizens?

The DREAM act was initially introduced by Hatch about 3 years ago. He said that the children of illegals should be entitled to in-state tuition if their parents have been working and paying taxes in the state where the kids are attending college.

That’s fine, but it needs to be weighed against the burden they have already placed on primary and secondary schools, state welfare, medicaid etc. I seriously doubt their taxes would cover the benefits they have already gotten in return.

Wingo on September 27, 2007 at 11:26 AM

It isn’t fine with me. If if their parents have been working and paying taxes they are working illegally. By law criminals must pay taxes even on profit gained from illegal activity.

We use such tax requirements to get gangsters put away. We do not subsidize racketeers to help them with their unrequited tax burden. We jail them.

The only thing we owe illegals working in the USA illegally is a one way trip out of here

Most universities get Federal subsidies. That is my Federal tax dollar going to illegals preferentially over the children of out-of-state citizen tax payers. No state should get Federal subsidies for their colleges if they give tuition to illegals over the children of citizens.

If the illegals are desparately suffering, set up refugee camps in Mexico. We can ship in food water and arrange for Feed the Children to help. The UN can administer the camp. I will donate. The Mexican government should not be too proud to ask for help.

entagor on September 27, 2007 at 12:30 PM

ColtsFan on September 27, 2007 at 12:10 PM

I find myself in the unbelievably weird position of having to disagree with you and PRCalDude a bit.

If I was poor and unemployed and living in Mexico, and knew that the US only sporadically enforced its borders and immigration laws, I’d be here too. I think others here would do the same. Not a Christian thing to do? Philosophically, I can’t object to your argument. But my heart tells me I would come. Under other circumstances, assuming a properly functioning immigration system, I would apply to come.

I don’t want people here illegally either. But I lock my doors at night and protect my property. OK. Beat me up if you want.

JiangxiDad on September 27, 2007 at 12:36 PM

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:21 PM

Sad but true.

infidel4life on September 27, 2007 at 12:41 PM

[Wingo on September 27, 2007 at 11:26 AM]

Thanks for the backgrounder, Wingo.

Dusty on September 27, 2007 at 12:41 PM

JiangxiDad on September 27, 2007 at 12:36 PM

Doesn’t it strike you as odd that the Lebanese who emigrated to Mexico are universally regarded as “industrious” in that country and they’re almost all successful and wealthy, though they live in Mexico and have no history in that country.

Carlos Slim, for example, is now the richest man in the world. He’s the son of Lebanese immigrants to Mexico.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:42 PM

Senator Reid is a Dream Act!

Entelechy on September 27, 2007 at 12:42 PM

Well, once these democrats win more sits as you guys whine about the GOP…these things will pass. Stop shooting yourselves in the foot and realize that while there are big disagreements in the Party…throwing away our future over it is much more dangerous. Fix in in power not out of it.

tomas on September 27, 2007 at 12:45 PM

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:42 PM

not sure how that responds to my comment. Just meant that I’d come here too, and wouldn’t feel that I had opposed God in doing so.

JiangxiDad on September 27, 2007 at 12:45 PM

Rush has a great Shanklin(sic) song on right now. Top libs singing ‘I Love The USA’ parody entitled ‘I Hate The USA’.

Funny as hell, and so very true.

techno_barbarian on September 27, 2007 at 12:48 PM

not sure how that responds to my comment. Just meant that I’d come here too, and wouldn’t feel that I had opposed God in doing so.

JiangxiDad on September 27, 2007 at 12:45 PM

For starters, coming here and stealing identification and social services from U.S. citizens is a violation of the 8th and 10th commandments, respectively, those being “You shall not steal” and, “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Secondly, living in complete disregard for U.S. law as the illegals do is to live completely contrarily to Romans 13, which exhorts people to obey the rulers and civil authorities.

Finally, as we’ve seen, many of these Mexican men are abandoning their families in Mexico, often starting new ones in the United States which is a violation of the 7th commandment, or “You shall not commit adultery” and further exortations in the Epistles to provide for and protect your family, which are also the covenant duties God gave man when he made Adam, our federal head.

Many are engaging in plenty of lawless acts, as that is the culture of Mexico.

So the moral calculus a Mexican employs when he decides to come here are not simply, “I need a job.” Quite a bit more is involving in what they do here in the U.S. They’ve offended God greatly by their lawlessness

Mexico has plenty of opportunity and resources. It also has the 11th economy in the world. Rather, it is the perpetual Arab fatalism of its people that leads them here, rather than seeking to better themselves where they are.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 1:04 PM

I need to start using preview.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 1:05 PM

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 1:04 PM

I won’t dispute a thing you say. I can only repeat that I don’t feel God is offended, even if you provide examples from religious texts of how he is. I can’t remember the last time I argued something by virtue of how I felt about it, but there you go. My gut just tells me this.

I think God would be offended by this example of his intelligent creations exercising bad governance and leadership.

Having said that, I don’t want my neighborhood and nation overrun by illegals and an alien culture. Enforce immigration laws.

JiangxiDad on September 27, 2007 at 1:22 PM

Wingo, Someone else may have pointed this out, I did not bother to read all the posts, but Hatch is from Utah…and yes usually he is a conservative, very conservative. He maybe changing with age.

oldernslower on September 27, 2007 at 1:27 PM

I won’t dispute a thing you say. I can only repeat that I don’t feel God is offended, even if you provide examples from religious texts of how he is. I can’t remember the last time I argued something by virtue of how I felt about it, but there you go. My gut just tells me this.

I guess the illegals are going by what they feel as well. I guess my question is, why are your feelings authoritative for making moral decisions? How do you know what God thinks? The only way to tell is if God has revealed himself explicitly. It so happens that he has.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 1:29 PM

Doesn’t Reid look like that guy from American Gothic?

jihadwatcher on September 27, 2007 at 1:33 PM

The only way to tell is if God has revealed himself explicitly. It so happens that he has.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 1:29 PM

I thought perhaps you were heading that way. That’s why I kind of held back. I’m sorry, but I don’t like to discuss religion that much. We’ll talk about something else another time.

JiangxiDad on September 27, 2007 at 1:42 PM

JiangxiDad on September 27, 2007 at 1:42 PM

Fair enough.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 1:43 PM

I see it as a good thing this got pulled , now they will have to eaither push it on its own merits right before the bveginning of the primary seson and also this is amnesty i dont give a damn what they call it , how many of those who might vote for it are coming up for re-election.
If nothing else this will flame the fires and make this one of the key issues in 08.

That alone might be a great thing as people will have to run on their records not on there false promises.

Mojack420 on September 27, 2007 at 3:26 PM

Mexico has plenty of opportunity and resources. It also has the 11th economy in the world. Rather, it is the perpetual Arab fatalism of its people that leads them here, rather than seeking to better themselves where they are.

Arb fatalism is right. The Spanish colonisation of Mexico happened not long after the reconquista (in historical terms at least). No doubt the Spanish conquistadors brought the manana (inshallah) culture of al-Andalus with them to the Americas.

aengus on September 27, 2007 at 4:08 PM

I hope that photo of Reid (used in the tease on the home page) NEVER goes away, it’s perfect. Please continue to use it!

Sir Loin on September 27, 2007 at 4:22 PM

If we could only find out what is causing our population to suffer from dementia we might be able to save our country from Rome’s fate.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 11:52 AM

It may be all those McDonald’s Happy Meals that parents are feeding their kids and all the “and super size the fry” that they are feeding themselves. Or, it could be Millers beer.

MB4 on September 27, 2007 at 4:27 PM

My company just hired about 25 new employees. Half of them have Spanish last names. They were subjected to background checks and all but a small minority come from parents who immigrated here legally. They were born here or brought here legally.

CA is becoming predominantly Latino, no doubt but, we only hire the best of the best and only do college recruiting every 3 to 5 years. It was encouraging to see they were just as well qualified. The students that we looked at and didn’t hire were those who could not prove they weren’t just attempting to overstay a student visa. We won’t sponsor because we know there are too many well qualified American students etc. who can do the work. This group was predominantly from Asian/Middle Eastern countries and a few South Americans. All had good qualifications but didn’t have the proper papers. They all spoke English albeit with an accent.

In my opinion in order to discourage illegal immigration, even if just a little, and to take away the Democrat and Republican politicians incentive for legalizing these folks (votes) I say we enact a law that states that anyone who came here illegally might at some point be able to gain a “green card” but will never be allowed to become a citizen. Those who do come legally will be allowed to become citizens after a time and passing some type if rigorous criteria.

CCRWM on September 27, 2007 at 6:05 PM

Certainly, we have more than enough money to raise as many kids as we want.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:02 PM

I disagree. My husband and I only had two kids because we felt that was all we could afford and that we could raise properly. And be able to put them through college. We’ve been able to put them in private Christian schools and programs, travel with them, go to dinner at least once a week, tithe etc… Plus we live in CA and have to pay high taxes to send other people’s kids to college and so on and on and on… I think I heard that the liberal dem pols now want to raise property taxes again in order to pay for more low income housing and health care or something like that! We plan to leave here when we retire…

CCRWM on September 27, 2007 at 6:17 PM

oops should have looked like this:

Certainly, we have more than enough money to raise as many kids as we want.

PRCalDude on September 27, 2007 at 12:02 PM

I disagree. My husband and I only had two kids because we felt that was all we could afford and that we could raise properly. And be able to put them through college. We’ve been able to put them in private Christian schools and programs, travel with them, go to dinner at least once a week, tithe etc… Plus we live in CA and have to pay high taxes to send other people’s kids to college and so on and on and on… I think I heard that the liberal dem pols now want to raise property taxes again in order to pay for more low income housing and health care or something like that! We plan to leave here when we retire…

CCRWM on September 27, 2007 at 6:19 PM

CCRWM on September 27, 2007

They were subjected to background checks and all but a small minority come from parents who immigrated here legally. They were born here or brought here legally.

You asked American citizens who were applying for a job for proof that their parents were citizens or legal residents? Not likely!

I say we enact a law that states that anyone who came here illegally might at some point be able to gain a “green card” but will never be allowed to become a citizen.

They don’t want to become citizens or assimilate. They are looking for work and to get covered by the safety net.

My husband and I only had two kids because we felt that was all we could afford and that we could raise properly. And be able to put them through college. We’ve been able to put them in private Christian schools and programs, travel with them, go to dinner at least once a week, tithe etc… Plus we live in CA and have to pay high taxes to send other people’s kids to college and so on

You only had two kids because they had to go to private school, and you had to go out to dinner and travel with them? HAD TO??

And you had to tithe?? That’s a percentage of your income, not a fixed amount of money.

Lady, most of what you said is absolutely ridiculous, not to mention pathetic. You already screwed up California. Don’t go anywhere.

JiangxiDad on September 27, 2007 at 8:14 PM

Lady, most of what you said is absolutely ridiculous, not to mention pathetic. You already screwed up California. Don’t go anywhere.

Calm down. Yeah there’s a demographic crisis but it needs to be addressed univerally. Berating random strangers on the internet for only having two kids isn’t going to achieve anything.

aengus on September 27, 2007 at 9:10 PM

In my opinion in order to discourage illegal immigration, even if just a little, and to take away the Democrat and Republican politicians incentive for legalizing these folks (votes) I say we enact a law that states that anyone who came here illegally might at some point be able to gain a “green card” but will never be allowed to become a citizen. Those who do come legally will be allowed to become citizens after a time and passing some type if rigorous criteria.
CCRWM on September 27, 2007 at 6:05 PM

I thought about that option awhile back. I think Senator Specter suggested something along those lines this past summer.

The problem I have is that this “green card for illegals” still, in effect, is rewarding people who broke the law.

As a Christian, I have a problem when government neglects its God-ordained function of enforcing the laws. The purpose of government should never be to enact new legislation that rewards people for breaking any law.

Also, this “green card for illegals” still rewards law-breakers because it overlooks the fact that millions of honest and law-abiding people are waiting patiently “in line” for US travel visas instead of illegally crossing our open and porous borders. I think it is a “slap in the face” to honest and law-abiding citizens of different countries who are waiting patiently in line in their native countries, but yet the USA politicians want to reward law-breakers who are impatient and dishonest.

They don’t want to become citizens or assimilate. They are looking for work and to get covered by the safety net.

Good point.

In my experience the above is true as well. The illegals do not want to learn constitutional history. They do not want to learn English because the large numbers of illegals where I live, in effect, encourages a cultural context that allows illegals to never feel the need to learn English.

ColtsFan on September 27, 2007 at 10:41 PM

Harry has a small firestorm here in his own backyard – Reno.
This may shine a little light on the ugly underbelly of illegal aliens “just doing the jobs American won’t do without proper ID.”

A reputedly upstanding member of the business community here owns 10 or so McDonalds. An ICE ID theft investigation led to raids today on his restaurants and his corporate offices.

His bio:

LUTHER MACK, JR. – Director

From 1989 to the present Luther Mack (Mr. Mack) has been the President and CEO of Mack and Associates, a company that owns and operates eight McDonald restaurants.

Mr. Mack brings an extensive business background to the company. Mr. Mack owned KXRI Fox Television in Reno and eight McDonalds Restaurants. Mr. Mack serves on the boards of Wells Fargo Bank Reno and Harveys Hotel and Casino Properties. Mr. Mack is the former chairman of the Reno Airport Authority. Mr. Mack is a frequent guest lecturer for the University of Nevada, Reno Business Department.
Mr. Mack has received an honorary doctorate degree from the University of Nevada, Reno.

Two months ago I happened to see this item at WeHireAliens.com

Can’t say he didn’t have fair warning.

Luther Mack owns about 10 McDonalds here in the Reno/Sparks area. Last year I was told by employees there were illegals hired and also underage (13)who is a relative of the mexican manager at the store. Luther told all his employees to wear white t shirts this week in support of the march on May 1st. I would say that out of the 75-100 employees Luther has, 90% of his employees are mexican.

fred5678 on September 27, 2007 at 11:31 PM

A few links for my previous post:

TV story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21021431

Newspaper story: http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?NoCache=1&Dato=20070927&Kategori=NEWS18&Lopenr=70927025&Ref=AR

Bio: http://sec.edgar-online.com/2004/01/13/0001199835-04-000007/Section10.asp

This is first notable ICE raid in Reno area in almost 3 years. This is NOT the kind of news the DREAM Act needs!

fred5678 on September 27, 2007 at 11:59 PM

Ahh, there is power in the common man. I have been a very active contributor to Numbers, USA. The faxes they provide can be edited anyway you choose, and the Senators and Reps DO read them. I know that for a fact because Sens. Coleman and Klobochar have sent me response letters ( albeit some are form, I will admit) and have called my home. If Reid thinks November is a safe time, I and my compatriots are ready.

MNDavenotPC on September 27, 2007 at 11:13 AM

I second, third, etc. all the kudos on NumbersUSA.

EVERYONE who complains about illegal aliens should be a member. I highly recommend it, support it, and USE it!!
If you have time to post here, you have time to customize a FAX. Contributions are optional, and therefore they get the bulk of my financial support.

fred5678 on September 28, 2007 at 12:27 AM

Here in the PDT zone, all by myself, listening to the PBS Rep. debate and to GREAT applause by the mostly black audience to strong statements on strict immigration law enforcement, building the fence, and protecting better-paying jobs for black youth versus low wage illegal aliens.

Alan Keyes especially a good cheerleader on this issue, also with blunt talk as maybe only he can deliver to this audience – pounding against liberal policies tending to foster a dependent lower economic class.

With all the Dems gung-ho for amnesty for illegal aliens, maybe some GOP candidates can reach out to the traditionally Dem. black demographic and show who actually supports American citizens of ALL colors. Note the black percentage at: http://www.jmi.com/immigrationmarches/zogby5.html

fred5678 on September 28, 2007 at 1:08 AM

Harry Reid is a living Oliphant cartoon character.

pc on September 28, 2007 at 2:56 AM

If we could only find out what is causing our population to suffer from dementia we might be able to save our country from Rome’s fate.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 11:52 AM

I think it is called liberalism.

Texas Nick 77 on September 28, 2007 at 6:05 AM

I hope that photo of Reid (used in the tease on the home page) NEVER goes away, it’s perfect. Please continue to use it!

Sir Loin on September 27, 2007 at 4:22 PM

Actually, it would make a great scarecrow.

Texas Nick 77 on September 28, 2007 at 6:24 AM

Actually, it would make a great scarecrow.

hahaha agreed! That dour look of his would scare any beast away.

Sir Loin on September 28, 2007 at 11:37 AM

If we could only find out what is causing our population to suffer from dementia we might be able to save our country from Rome’s fate.

doriangrey on September 27, 2007 at 11:52 AM
I think it is called liberalism.

Texas Nick 77 on September 28, 2007 at 6:05 AM

The following has been floating around the internet since the 2000 election. According to Snopes it has dubious origins, but it has the ring of truth to it. You know…Fake but accurate.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapse over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the worlds greatest civilization has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

*From bondage to spiritual faith

*from spiritual faith to great courage

*from courage to liberty

*from liberty to abundance

*from abundance to selfishness

*from selfishness to complacency

*from complacency to apathy

*from apathy to dependency

*from dependency back again to bondage.”

-Alexander Fraser Tyler

samuelrylander on September 28, 2007 at 12:57 PM

We’re all probably feeling the same way patriotic Romans did as they watched helplessly while the degenerates destroyed the empire from within.

Mojave Mark on September 28, 2007 at 11:49 PM

oldernslower on September 27, 2007 at 1:27 PM

I’m from Utah.

Hatch is from PA. He moved here about 20 years ago – just in time to establish residency just before his first run at a senate seat that was about to be vacated. I’ve voted for him in every election since I reached voting age. Right up until the last Republican primary, that is.

Wingo on September 29, 2007 at 8:20 AM

Did y’all notice how he tried to “use the force” with the horizontal wave of his hand when he first mentioned immigration reform? Thankfully, he’s no Jedi!

Woody

PS: I didn’t read all the comments, so if someone already mentioned this, I’ll just say that great minds think alike!

woodcdi on September 29, 2007 at 10:00 AM

Talk about a first class jerk. How he can cut the mustard for being a senator from Nevada; go figure.

oldelpasoan on September 30, 2007 at 7:26 PM

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