New Vent: The Death of the Grown-Up

posted at 5:48 am on September 24, 2007 by Bryan

Longtime readers of Michelle’s blog are familiar with the brilliant work of Washington Times columnist Diana West. Her first book, The Death of the Grown-up: How America’s Arrested Development Is Bringing Down Western Civilization, debuted earlier this month. Michelle recently interviewed Diana about the book and what the blurring between adolescence and adulthood in America might mean.

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Um, hey Bryan, I know you probably just woke up or something since this was posted up at 5:48am Eastern… but you embedded the “Runaround Hsu” video in your post.

heheh

I’ll check back later for the Michelle/Diana interview ;)

SilverStar830 on September 24, 2007 at 5:52 AM

Methinks the video doesn’t match the topic.

“Runaround Tsu.”

georgej on September 24, 2007 at 5:53 AM

I am really looking forward to more stuff like this.

The Race Card on September 24, 2007 at 6:06 AM

I blame Ahmadenijad!

It’s fixed now, btw.

Bryan on September 24, 2007 at 6:06 AM

…Well, like the forthcoming video. Ahem.

The Race Card on September 24, 2007 at 6:07 AM

Good interview Michelle. That’s another book added to the reading list. thanks

Zorro on September 24, 2007 at 6:51 AM

Wow. I never connected the 50′s to the 60′s in that way but it makes sense.

csdeven on September 24, 2007 at 7:49 AM

Diane is DEAD on about this being a problem whose genesis is the 1950′s.

Younger America is sick to DEATH of Boomers and their derailing of our American dream.Hillary CLinton represents the past and all its posing. Let’s MOVE ON already.

MORE BOOK REVIEWS (that are not strcitly POLITICAL) MICHELLE! Thinking women read REAL books as well as wonk books. ;)

seejanemom on September 24, 2007 at 8:16 AM

So true what she said about adults dressing like teenagers. I see it all the time, grown men dressed like hip hop gansta rappa thugs, like it’s Holloween or somthing.

Michelle, these author interviews are great, any chance you might get Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

Tony737 on September 24, 2007 at 8:17 AM

This is interesting. I’ve put the book on order and look forward to part Two. Coincidentally, I recently was doing some research into the post-WWI era and found a similar “youth movement.” One example the “flapper” fashions of the twenties, designed to make grown women look like pre-adolescent girls. It wasn’t as far-ranging as the later movement (partly because it didn’t have responsibility-ending developments like the Pill, and partly because it was curtailed by the Depression), but the backlash against the older (read: war) generation was very similar.

Quisp on September 24, 2007 at 8:30 AM

Of course, NMCI blocks my access to any video, with the exception of the link to download it as a podcast. Any chance of putting a link up for that, so I can watch it?

Oh, and I see all the times are now links?

rightside on September 24, 2007 at 9:15 AM

Perpetual adolescence is one of the main food groups of a steady liberal diet. (I didn’t say healthy.)

Coronagold on September 24, 2007 at 9:20 AM

Diane West is a sharp lady.

Hot Air should post more of her stuff.

Thx.

Lawrence on September 24, 2007 at 9:39 AM

“Diana” West. I meant.

Lawrence on September 24, 2007 at 9:41 AM

I agree that Ms. west is dead on as well… i see it all the time, proper clothes, good manners, lots of other things that have traditionally formed the basis of our civilization have been kissed good-bye as well…we live in a “SAY ANYTHING” culture — and that makes for plenty of squirm-worthy conversational moments for anyone who chooses to try and maintain a semblance of dignity and decorum…

she examines the origins of this phenomenon in great detail and very well…
i think it’s also caused in part by the simple fact that parents these days just give their kids a whole lot more financial support…(living at home after college, credit cards, rent paid while you “struggle” through your first few years in career, etc.etc.etc)

You mature through struggle and if there’s no struggle, there’s no maturing….

max1 on September 24, 2007 at 10:09 AM

I don’t know. I find the “flip flop” argument to be a tad picky. Teenage girls wear flip flops. They paint their toe nails nicely and I think that is fine. Now, if I showed up at the White House to have my picture taken in flip flops that would be another matter. Clothing in general as long as it is not obscene, which quite a bit of it is, does not phase me. It is behavior that I find most important.

Babs on September 24, 2007 at 10:11 AM

This was an interesting interview with a lot information.
I believe Diana is spot on her analysis.
I’m wearing flip flops as I write this:)

terryannonline on September 24, 2007 at 10:26 AM

Thank you for this interview. This phenomenon of suspended adolescence is something that has really been bothering me the older I get. Mentally, some people seem to reach a plateau around High School and then they just stop. I really don’t understand it.

Looking forward to part 2!

Codec717 on September 24, 2007 at 10:39 AM

Flip flops I definitely see as too casual. However, I’ve currently been in a mock battle with my supervisor because I’ve been wearing these to the office occasionally. They’re not strictly prohibited by the dress code, but not approved either. My case is fairly strong that they’re allowable, I just have to take a lot of crap for them.

However, not to toot my own horn, but I’ve been discussing this concept for years. My best friend is 3 years older than me, and I’m 25. He lived at home until about 4 months ago, when he finally moved out only because his girlfriend moved across country and wanted him to come with. He’s my bro, but I still had to sit in stunned amazement at his lack of pride. Even more baffling was how many women he got.

MadisonConservative on September 24, 2007 at 10:42 AM

A great interview on a timely topic. I’m looking forward to reading the book. I think Ms. West has done some important work toward illuminating the motivations behind the more extreme sorts of liberalism. Like many other Hot Air readers, I sometimes find the behavior of the Daily Kos crowd almost incomprehensible, but Ms. West has shown me that the explanation is brutally simple: these people are children, and everything they do is emotionally and intellectually consistent with the behavior of a childish tantrum. For example, the Daily Kos diary from the self-proclaimed Jewish lesbian who has a crush on the Mahdi seems unfathomable, until you consider the author as mentally equivlalent to an angry child – unable to appreciate the dangers posed by the enemy, secure in a belief in her own invincibility (she would doubtless consider the idea that the Iranian mullocracy could ever actually *hurt* her to be laughable) and looking for the easiest way to wound or provoke the authority figures she’s really angry with: grown-ups, i.e. conservatives and middle Americans. The MoveOn crowd has grown up in a world that lets them be children all of their lives, turning concepts like patriotism or civic responsibility into postmodern jokes. Like all children, they hunger for membership in a tribe or group, and they’re uncritically willing to turn astonishing amounts of venom against the group’s designated enemies, without thinking too much about what they’re doing, or even pausing to consider matters of decorum and mature conduct. They prefer imaginary enemies to real ones, and Like all children, they think intensity of passion should win arguments – whoever screams loudest wins – and they’ll be deeply surprised to find out they’re not as invincible as they thought they were.

Doctor Zero on September 24, 2007 at 10:50 AM

Adolescence itself is the problem. Historically, when children reached teen age or so (One well-known formula is 13 for a boy or 12 for a girl) they would be considered an adult. (“Today I am a man.”). The ritual recognizing adulthood is not always entirely based on age, but also the demonstration of competence in a particular area. Many tribal rites of passage require the child to prove certain competencies before they can enter the adult world.

We’ve artificially extended childhood by demanding that kids go to school four years beyond 8th grade, The result, within a generation or so, was that curricula shifted, so that high schoolers were learning what their grandparents learned in grade schoool. Now we’re well into repeating the process with college. Monsterette 2 is now taking subjects in college that my father learned in high school.

The goal of parents and teachers should be to prepare children for the responsibilities of citizenship, including the basic principles of civilized behavior from which just laws are derived*, and a lifetime of learning new skills for self-improvement. There’s no reason why that should take 18 years, much less 21.

I was thrilled to learn that Robert Epstein took on this issue in his book The Case Against Adolescence: Rediscovering the Adult in Every Teen, which was reviewed quite favorably by Dr. Helen Smith (the Instawife, for those of you in Rio Linda).


*One problem with becoming an adult in today’s society is the proliferation of mala prohibita offenses against statute and regulation. These are so complicated and contradictory that nearly everyone is technically guilty of violating at least one of them, more often than not from lack of knowledge of the law itself. This leaves law enforcement officers and government attorneys great latitude in choosing which violations to investigate and prosecute. We recognize the problem with respect to the operation of a motor vehicle, and require a passing score on a test of the peculiar rules governing same before a driver’s license can be issued.

The Monster on September 24, 2007 at 10:58 AM

high schoolers were learning what their grandparents learned in grade schoool.

(like how to spell school with only TWO o’s)

The Monster on September 24, 2007 at 11:00 AM

Great interview. (But if there’s no Vent theme, is it really a Vent?)

I’m reminded of the often-mentioned-by-Rush “Ponytail Guy,” asking presidential candidates, “how can we as symbolically the children of the future president expect…you to meet our needs?”

saint kansas on September 24, 2007 at 11:13 AM

Wonderful, wonderful vent, ladies. I couldn’t agree with you more. Also linked to this on my blog. The greatest proof of your theory to me is the incessant cry for rights, rights, and rights, divorced from any notion of responsibility and the greater good of society.

Webutante on September 24, 2007 at 11:15 AM

This is a terrific interview with a very thoughtful woman. At the very end she states that rejecting authority is a very “immature attitude,” which is something I have trouble agreeing with as a flat statement. The statement is itself “immature” since it is resorting to name-calling, rather than reason to criticize something.

I know in my own life, especially in business, I have missed a few opportunities because I stuck with the conventional. The folks who were thinking big always asked “why not” when some aspect of the established order was blocking them. Certainly there needs to be some balance, and respect for what has come before. And, I assume she was not making an all-encompassing statement (and I also am not, some things are always right and some things are always wrong). I look forward to reading more of what she has to say.

doufree on September 24, 2007 at 11:51 AM

it didn’t ‘start’ in the 1950′s or 1960′s…that is just when it became noticeable in the culture at large.

the real ‘start’, comes from 19th and 20th century Thinkers/philosophers, which set us on course of getting away from the Judeo-Christian consensus view of Final reality being the infinite Creator God…and set us towards what we have today. A culture that see’s final reality that is only material or energy, coming from chance or randomness…

Francis Schaeffer documented in his famous books how this happens, in his “Line of Despair”:

1)worldview is crafted by consensus of Thinkers, Scientist, intellectual elite, etc.

2) this worldview begins to be displayed in Art and Architecture

3) then it starts to show up in Music

4) then it moves finally into Film and the General Pop Culture(this being the 50′s/60′s era and onward)…

then finally this worldview finds its way into Theology, which is evidenced by the Liberal churches of today(Episcopal Church, PCUSA Presbyterian church, Methodist…)

his “line of despair” that we are currently living under is when people get to the point of not beleiving in Absolute Truth or how to “know” Truth……today we live in a postmodern culture, which is a Meaningless one, under which absolutely nothing that happens should suprise you…

I suggest his famous Trilogy…

from a famous speech:

http://www.peopleforlife.org/francis.html

I want to say to you, those of you who are Christians or even if you are not a Christian and you are troubled about the direction that our society is going in, that we must not concentrate merely on the bits and pieces. But we must understand that all of these dilemmas come on the basis of moving from the Judeo-Christian world view — that the final reality is an infinite creator God — over into this other reality which is that the final reality is only energy or material in some mixture or form which has existed forever and which has taken its present shape by pure chance.

as a sidenote, I have the above speech on DVD…if anyone can tell me how to convert file format so I can get it on Youtube, let me know…

jp on September 24, 2007 at 11:56 AM

I was born in 1951. My parents were not child-centric. I grew up with a stay-at-home mom and enjoyed the best gift of all – accessibility time. In other words, I did not have a parent directing or interfering with the learning experience of play, but the parent was immediately accessible if there was an accident. My brother, born in 54, and I had chores, but we didn’t get an allowance. We were, however, allowed to keep the money we earned when we began working outside the home.

My youngest sister was born in 1961. I told her recently that we may as well have had 2 completely different sets of parents. My mother went to work when my sister entered kindergarten. She didn’t grow up with accessibility time. She grew up with a working mom. By the time I was in college, my sister was writing to tell me that the parents of almost all of her classmates were divorced and that kids were coming to school drunk or stoned.

So something culturally huge did take place in those years. Rather than focusing on the family as a unit, women and children began to be singled out for attention by the media and by academia. The family unit was bombarded within a very short time by the second-wave feminists, liberal academia, new fads within the world of psychology, the Beatles, Gilligan’s Island, Batman, the anti-war movement, drugs, and the very first upclose and personal violence on TV – the assassination of JFK.

It’s a wonder that any semblance at all of the traditional middle class family survived the assault.

By the time my own kids were in school, I could see the negative results of that first assault, but there was still a remnant of the traditional family hanging on to do what it did best, which was to maintain the stability of this country.

That remnant lasted until the moms in my own age group entered the workforce en masse at the end of the eighties. Quite suddenly, that line between childhood and maturity disintegrated, and I wrote about it then. Commercialism became the new god. Middle class moms who wanted to enter the workforce felt guilty about being away from their children, and they began to replace family time with material goods.

It was at this time that the source of maturity and stability in America, the traditional middle class family, began to completely disintegrate. The children of these families began to be part of the problem. They were at home without parental supervision. This affected all age groups, not just little kids. Teens now had vehicles, gifts from guilt-ridden and overly busy mothers. There was a dramatic increase in kids driving drunk. Schools began to be used as a babysitter and teachers had to become parents. Kids began to be taught that they had self-esteem, not that they had to earn it. We had Columbine. We saw harassment policies developed in schools. We saw more and more kids being sent to anger management classes because they weren’t learning those skills at home. We saw kids coming to school who’d had no breakfast. We saw an increase in requests for preschool and afterschool programs and fewer parents who were willing to parent their own children.

Why? Because the world was suddenly all about “me, me, me.”
The line between childhood and maturity is the line one crosses by realizing life is not all about “me.”

One of my daughters visited us with her family this weekend. They have two young children who pretty much rule the roost because my daughter, like so many other of today’s moms, has fallen into the child-centric trap. I mentioned to my son-in-law that it might be wise to begin to take back the TV. Until the children go to bed, their television is either tuned to a child-centric program or video. I grew up with limited TV, adult programs, or family-oriented programs about right and wrong and about heroes where everyone agreed who the good guys and bad guys were. We didn’t sit and psychoanalyze the bad guy’s childhood and make excuses for his behavior. We knew who the children were and who the adults were. Some of us reached the line between childhood and adulthood and recognized that the minute we crossed it, we would be expected to contribute to the stability of society.

That line seems to be almost gone. How can one cross it if one can’t see it?

Connie on September 24, 2007 at 12:35 PM

YAY Vent!

I know I’m never going to grow up.

ThackerAgency on September 24, 2007 at 12:40 PM

Younger America is sick to DEATH of Boomers and their derailing of our American dream.

seejanemom on September 24, 2007 at 8:16 AM

What is our American dream?

Connie on September 24, 2007 at 12:45 PM

Doctor Zero on September 24, 2007 at 10:50 AM

That was a thoughtful and astute post. You are right on in your assessment.

Connie on September 24, 2007 at 1:00 PM

I was thrilled to learn that Robert Epstein took on this issue in his book The Case Against Adolescence: Rediscovering the Adult in Every Teen, which was reviewed quite favorably by Dr. Helen Smith (the Instawife, for those of you in Rio Linda).

Another book to add to my must-read list. Thank you for the recommendation.

Connie on September 24, 2007 at 1:04 PM

A very good vent subject. Thanks Diana, Michelle and Bryan.

That line seems to be almost gone. How can one cross it if one can’t see it?
Connie on September 24, 2007 at 12:35 PM

That is the bottom line.

What is our American dream?
Connie on September 24, 2007 at 12:45 PM

That would be Me, me and me.

Mcguyver on September 24, 2007 at 1:08 PM

jp on September 24, 2007 at 11:56 AM

That sounds rather Oprah-esque.

Connie on September 24, 2007 at 1:09 PM

then finally this worldview finds its way into Theology, which is evidenced by the Liberal churches of today(Episcopal Church, PCUSA Presbyterian church, Methodist…)
jp on September 24, 2007 at 11:56 AM

The worldview found its way into theology in the 20s and 30s, though. That’s when those denominations started to go liberal. You could make a good case that the culture just went the direction of the church.

PRCalDude on September 24, 2007 at 1:39 PM

PRCalDude on September 24, 2007 at 1:39 PM

I think the “Pop culture” part before, technically started before the 20′s and 30′s, just that film wasn’t as big a thing then, but the ball that got it started in pop culture started then..

I found this online which summarizes it: Players at the Worldview Table: Postmodernism – Order in Chaos

the “Trickle Down” ideology part should intrigue all conservatives.

jp on September 24, 2007 at 2:41 PM

Thanks for posting this. I have strong views on this subject as well, and loved Glenn & Helen’s podcast with Conn Iggulden, author of The Dangerous Book for Boys. I turn 18 tomorrow and am trying to grow up but it can be a struggle in this culture where instant gratification is better than integrity, empty flattery better than respect etc etc… Sheesh.

Can’t wait for part 2!

emmaline1138 on September 24, 2007 at 4:51 PM

Diana West, one of my very favorites!

Diana West’s views on Bush and Iraq

Which are almost identical to mine!

Scroll down a bit to – What President Bush should say to us – if Diana West were writing his speech -

MB4 on September 24, 2007 at 4:52 PM

Limited War vs. Total War – By Diana West

“But that doesn’t mean the Southeast Asian analogy — basically, we can’t let the Iraqi people down as we did the South Vietnamese — is right. Why? Well, for starters, South Vietnamese didn’t kill American troops [well technically the VC who were largely South Vietnamese did], didn’t booby-trap buildings and towns, didn’t turn temples into armed camps, didn’t teach their young to throw rocks at GIs. To my knowledge, when training South Vietnamese army and police, American advisors didn’t require body armor (not to mention armed U.S. guards) to ensure their survival. And South Vietnamese leaders weren’t — while Americans were fighting on South Vietnam’s behalf — eagerly courting American enemies, as, for example, Prime Minister al-Maliki seems to do every week with junkets to Iran and Syria. Where next, North Korea?

This glossed-over distinction accounts for my uneasy reaction to the president’s exhortation to “stand with the Iraqis at this difficult hour.” Which “Iraqis”? Sunnis and Shi’ites eradicating Iraq’s remnant Christian population? Sunni bombers whose hatred of Shi’ites (fleetingly?) transcends their hatred of Americans? Agents of Iran? Agents of al Qaeda? Proponents of Hezbollah? Forgive me if I fail to be stirred by the president’s call.

A more frank, comprehensive-more grown-up assessment of the historical record would offer very different lessons from the ones Mr. Bush is teaching.

MB4 on September 24, 2007 at 4:56 PM

By Diana West:

Imam Bush strikes again

“There Imam Bush goes again.
“I am astonished by President Bush when he claims there is nothing in the Quran that justifies jihad violence in the name of Islam,” jailed Islamic scholar Abu Qatada said under similar circumstances almost six years ago. “Is he some kind of Islamic scholar? Has he ever actually read the Quran?”

No. He’s just leader of the Free World — a Free World that has become less free and more dhimmified on his severely myopic watch.”

MB4 on September 24, 2007 at 5:06 PM

its pretty pathetic this thread turned into a BDS thread

jp on September 24, 2007 at 5:24 PM

Diana West has BDS?

Nope, she just doesn’t have a case of permanent Bush Devotion Syndrome no matter what he does.

Most Americans don’t.

MB4 on September 24, 2007 at 5:41 PM

The movie “Idiocracy” is once again shown to be a documentary.

hadsil on September 24, 2007 at 5:51 PM

I have often thought that the prosperity experienced in this nation after WWII created a certain disconnect from the more harsh realities faced by previous generations. The leap in our standard of living was perhaps a mixed blessing in that one regard. With fewer nagging reminders of our own mortality and more time for the pursuit of our own fulfillment, we as flawed human beings were able to indulge ourselves, evade responsibilities, etc.
And that paved the way for the worst character traits displayed in the Boomers, and thus the Xers, and so on.

Dork B. on September 24, 2007 at 7:09 PM

Great interview, thanks! Just ordered the book. I googled it and found the first chapter online, too, if you’re interested.

AdrianG on September 25, 2007 at 1:39 AM

South Vietnamese didn’t kill American troops [well technically the VC who were largely South Vietnamese did], didn’t booby-trap buildings and towns, didn’t turn temples into armed camps, didn’t teach their young to throw rocks at GIs.
MB4 on September 24, 2007 at 4:56 PM

That is simply a flat out, bold face denial of what happened there. The reason our soldiers had to burn entire villages is because the kids were doing the fighting as well!

Un-frigging-believable!

Leave it up to you, to turn this thread about adulthood, into a Bush Denigration Syndrome…… But then again, perhaps, this is aptly so.
.
.

Let’s allow the real adults to speak for the Iraqi’s, shall we?
For starters, here is one that would like to have a word with you and Diana West.
.
.

Here is another adult, who we all wish, could still whack some of you upside the head:

“[E]very lesson in history tells us that the greater risk lies in appeasement, and this is the specter our well-meaning liberal friends refuse to face—that their policy of accommodation is appeasement, and it gives no choice between peace and war, only between fight and surrender. If we continue to accommodate, continue to back and retreat, eventually we have to face the final demand—the ultimatum. And what then?” —Ronald Reagan

.
.

Here’s more adult analysis where that came from, on September 24, 2007 at 11:46 PM
.
.
You are very welcome.

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 1:44 AM

The reason our soldiers had to burn entire villages is because the kids were doing the fighting as well!

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 1:44 AM

What on earth are you going on about now? You are making no sense whatsoever. Who said anything about our soldiers burning entire villages? Where did that come from? Where did you see that in what you quoted? Where did you see that anywhere in Diana West’s article? Talking about American troops burning entire villages, you are sounding like John Kerry. Your comments are becoming more and more off in some alternate “reality”, mostly alternate, not much reality. You read something and seem to think that you have read something entirely different. I am starting to worry about you.

MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 2:27 AM

Here are some words from Ronald Reagan’s Supreme Allied Commander in Europe during WWII and later his President.

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing. When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience, I have come to hate war.

May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower, 5 star General and 34th President of the United States of America.

MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 2:35 AM

Leave it up to you, to turn this thread about adulthood, into a Bush Denigration Syndrome…… But then again, perhaps, this is aptly so.
For starters, here is one that would like to have a word with you and Diana West.
Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 1:44 AM

Look at the top of this post and read the very first sentence, maybe you read it as something else too: “Longtime readers of Michelle’s blog are familiar with the brilliant work of Washington Times columnist Diana West.”

MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 2:44 AM

Diane West is a sharp lady.

Hot Air should post more of her stuff.

Thx.

Lawrence on September 24, 2007 at 9:39 AM

Yes, she is very sharp Lady!

Way sharper than most all men!

Particularly on Islam, Iraq and Bush.

I would like to see some more of her work on those subjects posted here, after seeing some posted in the first place, of course, then more, many more.

MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 5:25 AM

Just look at the Golf Course. Perfect example. And I say “golf course” like the holy place it is…Again drunk jerks yellin’ and swearing with “who farted” t-shirts on. No golf etiquite(msp?). My 8 year old (who hits the beejeezusbelt out of the ball BTW)knows it’s Gentleman’s game. Respect. I tell him save the rad clothes for when you’re out BMXing, or dirtbiking …when it’s cool to do so. Time and a place.

LtE126 on September 25, 2007 at 9:48 AM

One more…I always thought when you see some kid walking down the street with spiked blue hair black clothes and a pierced tongue smoking Camel filters,you know… “I won’t wear ‘the Man’s’ uniform man!” that he looks like all the other spiked blue hair black clothes and pierced tongued kids that smoke Camel filters. So you put on a uniform to look like you DON’T wear a uniform.

It’s like when some guy goes out and spends 38k on a Big Dog or a Texas Chopper…I had a bud of mine ask this guy…”so what are you gonna do when some little yuppie pimp pulls up next to you at a light with the exact same bike?”

LtE126 on September 25, 2007 at 11:01 AM

didn’t teach their young to throw rocks at GIs.
MB4 on September 24, 2007 at 4:56 PM

You are the one that quoted Diana West’s complete pessimistic pale faced, appeasement ass kissing, globalists gnome world view ignorance.

What on earth are you going on about now? You are making no sense whatsoever. Who said anything about our soldiers burning entire villages? Where did that come from? Where did you see that in what you quoted? Where did you see that anywhere in Diana West’s article?
MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 2:27 AM

.

You and Diana West, are the ones not making sense here.
.

Apparently, neither of you have heard – first hand reports from Vietnam vets – of how the children and women couldn’t be trusted because they were armed and dangerous!
I can put a vet on the phone with you, who will straighten both of you!

If you need a boost in the sanity of real resistance in fighting against the Despotic leaders and jihadists who truly wish us dead, you should listen to the Holocoust surviver caller, that Laura Ingraham had this morning on the radio. She understands the real threat that we face from terrorists.

You know you cannot defend your completely irrelevant outlier theory of why Joe Lieberman – an Iraqi war hawk – won the liberal kook State Connecticut as an independent in a landslide.
So, you resort to claiming I’m off topic and into an alternate reality.

I’m losing hope that you can make any sense with your mainstream media sound-bite-warped, biased view.

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 11:06 AM

its pretty pathetic this thread turned into a BDS thread

jp on September 24, 2007 at 5:24 PM

I’ve got a pretty bad case myself.

PRCalDude on September 25, 2007 at 11:41 AM

Thanks for doin’ the Boss proud by hijacking the thread, guys. This was supposed to be a discussion of American culture and the idea that things do not go well when 40 yr. olds remain children.

Connie on September 25, 2007 at 12:39 PM

Some place the beginning in the roaring 1920’s which was halted by the Depression. Post WWII gave our nation a once in centuries burst of wealth. We were the only world manufacturer left intact. The nation had been hostage to terrific sacrifice. It was that enormous wealth that made it possible to live like a hippie on part time work. Sacrifice was pushed aside and self interest encouraged. It was the perfect opportunity for the sharks to move in and deconstruct everything. What a good time to be a professor as now everyone could afford to go to college. Colleges capitulated and became centers of self interest. Aging hippies now run the colleges. The wealth multiplied because we underwent conversion to the electronic era, then to the communication and computer era.

We thought it was us. It was the money. The ride is almost over. We are currently living off the accumulated wealth of prior generations. The Chinese government holds 1.6 trillion in Treasuries, that is 1.6 trillion of our National Debt. The Chinese government just bought 10 percent of the Blackstone group, that is Hilton Hotels, La Quinta, Universal Studios Orlando, Orbitz, American Axle etc. The transfer of wealth is facilitated by the Hippies’ refusal to sacrifice for the next generation.

I predict they will bleed out the last drop left for future generations to guarantee a comfy old age with good medical and Mexican gardeners

Meanwhile I am so bored with the endless self examination of the ‘me, myself and I’ generation. These slugs squandered a magnificent gift to stay in diapers

I am very proud of the many in the younger generations who refuse to buy into the Boomer crap and are examing their roots.

entagor on September 25, 2007 at 1:00 PM

This was supposed to be a discussion of American culture
Connie on September 25, 2007 at 12:39 PM

I didn’t start this what you call hijacking, as you can clearly see.
When someone inserts a misrepresentation of the real truth then they have to be rebutted.

I also respectfully and completely disagree with your statement that it’s not part of the culture, because, this pale faced idea of war and the threats of Islamic extremism, is a result of looking at the world from an adolescent point of view.

So it became a part of this discussion, appropriately, by default, because our culture really needs an example of ignorant adolescent views in action.

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 1:01 PM

Apparently, neither of you have heard – first hand reports from Vietnam vets – of how the children and women couldn’t be trusted because they were armed and dangerous!
I can put a vet on the phone with you, who will straighten both of you!

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 11:06 AM

Earth to McGoofey, I am a Vietnam vet!!! and you can talk that children and women stuff to John Kerry.

MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 2:44 PM

Thanks for doin’ the Boss proud by hijacking the thread, guys. This was supposed to be a discussion of American culture and the idea that things do not go well when 40 yr. olds remain children.

Connie on September 25, 2007 at 12:39 PM

Very first sentence of this post by Bryan:

“Longtime readers of Michelle’s blog are familiar with the brilliant work of Washington Times columnist Diana West.

I do not see how it is “hijacking” to link and quote from the brilliant work of Diana West.

Do you think woman are only suppose to be heard from on children, church and culture?

MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 2:53 PM

I am a Vietnam vet!!!
MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 2:44 PM

Thank you for your service.

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 3:11 PM

you should listen to the Holocoust surviver caller, that Laura Ingraham had this morning on the radio. She understands the real threat that we face from terrorists.

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 11:06 AM

Now you are reading the Holocaust into this. What? Do you think that Diana West was for it? Did you even read and process (very import to process) what Diana West has said? Do you know who she is? Hint: Jewish World Review likes her, they like her a lot. You have such tunnel vision. That is about the kindest way I can put it.

MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 3:12 PM

Thank you for your service.

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 3:11 PM

Have a nice day.

MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 3:13 PM

To Michelle, Allahpundit, and Bryan,
Another worthy blog would be the interview that Laura Ingraham had this morning on the radio, with the WWII documentary Filmmaker, Ken Burns.

He discussed the difficulty that the vets had in describing their experience with their families, however were able to discuss the real truth with the Film crew interviewers.
It was quite touching and something the current culture should hear, given the pacifist views that circulates in the mindsets of too many.

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 3:19 PM

Here’s a question:

If modern Liberalism is based on the refusal by millions of Americans to grow up (which I don’t doubt), does that mean that Hillary is so popular with them because they see her as a Mother figure?

Lancer on September 25, 2007 at 6:43 PM

does that mean that Hillary is so popular with them because they see her as a Mother Goddess figure?

That’s mo betta.

Mcguyver on September 25, 2007 at 8:43 PM

Just because Diana West writes brilliantly on the current war, does not mean that was what this thread was about. It was also not specifically about the Vietnam War. Believe me, I wrote to her close to 2 years ago and thanked her for being what was then a lonely voice in the PC wilderness.

I do object to those who berate the boomers in general terms. If not for this particular boomer and others like me, conservatives would have been long gone. It is we who have had to fight our own to preserve something of value for those of you who are younger.

It is actually possible to comment briefly on the effects of various wars in this thread without turning it into a discussion OF those wars. I did so in my own post.

Don’t forget that women were encouraged to support the war effort by working in factories, etc. This country needed women in the workforce then. America could not have come out on top without them.

Do you think woman are only suppose to be heard from on children, church and culture?

MB4 on September 25, 2007 at 2:53 PM

I really was not referring to your post, but the ensuing conversation. If I believed that, I wouldn’t be here.

Connie on September 26, 2007 at 1:26 AM

This ranks in my top 5 favorite Vent episodes. Good job Michelle on the interview and good job Bryan on the lighting, camera and editing.

SN

realVerse on September 26, 2007 at 1:54 AM

Just signed in to say, “Great Vent!”

12thman on September 26, 2007 at 8:41 AM

On leaving a culture, when you return, you are different. – Diana

And that right there makes a great case for youths to serve in the military.

RushBaby on September 26, 2007 at 12:58 PM

Another thing that changed the culture was child labor laws. What were the positive and negative effects of that?

Connie on September 27, 2007 at 11:40 PM

Ms. West and Michelle are on target. The 50′s was the planting of the seedling that was the “Boomer Generation” who thought “better living through chemicals” was the way to stay forever young. But, in reality you can not stop time

We may all want to look at timelines very critically for hints of the future. There is a theory that every 50-60 years is the pivotal point for changes to occur. Applying this theory to our current generations of “Boomer”, the “Great Generation”, “Gen X or Y”, or tweens, and the cycles are strikingly clear.

MSGTAS on September 28, 2007 at 10:06 AM