I find any and all references to identity politics insulting. The idea that all atheists or all Christians or all blacks have fundamentally the same exact needs and should believe the same on all issues is ridiculous on its face.

I wouldn’t vote for a candidate because he’s an athiest.

I wouldn’t vote for a candidate because he’s a Christian.

I wouldn’t vote for a candidate because he’s black.

I support someone based on their morals, their principles, and their convictions. I’m not interested in demographics, I’m interested in the republic.

I guess I inadvertently stepped into some family-thing, here.
progressoverpeace on September 23, 2007 at 9:41 PM

That was the best debate comeback I’ve ever heard, bar none!
I was telling my friends about it today and getting another round of laughs!

Comebacks like that, really contribute greatly to a debate, because it forces people to think.
It’s a word picture they can never completely get out of their brain.

Never shrink, from that basic duty in debate, please, no matter what the push back may be.

The idea that there is no infinity, is so absurd and takes, more faith to believe in, really.

The chopping in half of a carrot, for an eternity, and still end up with something, is so profoundly true.

The study of quantum physics, just barely coming into mainstream, now, is for once and all, proving just that.

Below the atomic level, is a whole, another, ever-deepening level, of sub-atomic particles, which, really comes down to, being nothing but energy, thoughts, actions, plans, intentions, etc. of which, can be broken up, into more pieces, for an ever increasing eternity, yet again.

And, for someone, any one, to deny that, simply portrays them, as begging to lose the debate.

So turn up the heat! Never give up!

Mcguyver on September 23, 2007 at 8:42 PM

Thanks for the kind words, Mcguyver. I was a little stunned, myself, when that line of argument initially came up. I guess I inadvertently stepped into some family-thing, here.

but if my comments are getting moderated because of my views on the psychology of self-proclaimed atheists
progressoverpeace on September 23, 2007 at 4:48 PM

That was funny how you “mopped the floor” last night, with the insert about, psychologists figuring out what other people are thinking!
Thanks for that laugh!

Big difference between admire and worship!

It is not my belief. It is that of progressoverpeace.

At least that is what he says.

MB4 on September 23, 2007 at 1:18 AM

That’s not exactly what I said, but it was part of it.

Frankly I have my doubts.

I think he may not do all sorts of selfish and bad things if he did not think that a God would punish him,

And that is fine for you to say, and you might even be correct. But why is it that I am not in the least offended by your claim that I am claiming to believe something that you think I don’t, while there seem to be many “offended atheists” and (atheist supporters?) who take issue with my saying the same thing about their claims?

but may just rethorically have “painted himeslf into a corner”.

I would have responded to your later questions, but I painted myself into having my comments moderated … on a thread about ATHEISM!!! That was my cue.

It was a nice discussion while it lasted, but if my comments are getting moderated because of my views on the psychology of self-proclaimed atheists … That’s a new one on me. That’s almost as good as those atheists who claim to be offended by the words “under God” in the pledge, when it should just make them laugh.

A question to all anti-atheists here:
How come that I am an atheist and a good guy?
After all, I am supposed to be a “narcissist and nihilist”. Just wondering…

And no, please don’t say that I “believe in God, but don’t admit it”. I really do not believe in supernatural beings.

Syndic Nuruodo on September 23, 2007 at 10:05 AM

I wouldn’t describe myself as anti-atheist, but here goes.

It’s possible your pleasant personality traits were selected due to increasing survival value for you and your community. I think that is plausible, and probably a sufficient explanation. But I do think there is such a thing as spirit. It feels like that to me. I suspect you have love for your fellow creatures and a desire for good things to happen. Again, this could be explained logically without attributing it to anything immaterial, but my own experience leads me to believe there is more going on.

Philosophers are only men. They know what they know, but what do they base their “truth” on?

Ordinary1 on September 23, 2007 at 1:02 AM

Socrates is famous for having claimed to have knowledge of ignorance. I assure you that close attention to Socrates opens up a fascinating area of inquiry.

I love these people and their blind devotion to science! What they miss is that almost everything that they accept as fact today, will be proven wrong 50 years from now…as is almost everything accepted as fact 50 years ago! But they are true believers! I’ll put my faith in the Creator rather than the creation and my limited understanding of it, thank you!

sabbott on September 23, 2007 at 6:09 AM

What I admire in some of the scientists is a desire to go on using their faculties as best they know how, despite being aware of their flaws. Such continual striving seems to have a source and an end beyond them themselves. They wittingly or unwittingly render their impure service in obedience to a divine urge; nor is their service ever turned down, despite its impurity.

How come that I am an atheist and a good guy?
After all, I am supposed to be a “narcissist and nihilist”. Just wondering…

And no, please don’t say that I “believe in God, but don’t admit it”. I really do not believe in supernatural beings.

Syndic Nuruodo on September 23, 2007 at 10:05 AM

I was a good guy and agnostic before I became a Christian. It can happen :-) You see a cause and effect Universe and you want good effects perhaps. Maybe you were born with a good disposition and are naturally pleasant. It’s a gift from God, if you’ll accept that!

No doubt that non-believers can be good citizens and good people. Most are! We are all created in God’s image, so we have a lot of His traits. (work, sense of justice, right and wrong, compassion) However, we are not all born as children of God. Most religions believe that has to be earned. In Christianity it’s bought and paid for by God who loves us.

And no, please don’t say that I “believe in God, but don’t admit it”. I really do not believe in supernatural beings.

Syndic Nuruodo on September 23, 2007 at 10:05 AM

But it’s apparent you believe that a god must be a supernatural being. Unexamined opinion seems to be everlasting, omnipresent, and above all, omniscient.

There are The Philosopher Kings who are in it for intellectual thrills and who might be reading anything from Ayn Rand to Heidegger to the Death of God Theologians.

Socrates and his author seem to have meant for the philosopher-king to be funny. (After all, a close look at the Phaedo shows that Socrates and Plato keep having fun, right up to Socrates’s last words to Crito.) I think our inkling that Socrates and Plato knew the philosopher-king is funny can help us return to the Republic in hopes of better understanding.

And no, please don’t say that I “believe in God, but don’t admit it”. I really do not believe in supernatural beings.

What this may mean in the long run…? If God were not a concept, but a real thing? If it is merely that you find all religions ridiculous, it would be better to be agnostic.

But then, I don’t speak for any of you.

Especially not McGuyver. Thank God for that.

There are the Big Science Secularists (who sometimes have a creepily cocksure, pre-postmodern, faith in the possibilities of reason).

Well said! I know committed Darwiniac Atheists who think they are far more brilliant than they really are who are on an evangelical mission to convert Christians to Atheism, and even stalk Christian websites for the sole purpose of deriding and scorning the “stupidity” of Christian beliefs and their silly myths.

There are the Refugees who are escaping dysfunctional Fundamentalist homes.

True again! I run into these people all the time at Left wing blogs and coincidentally they all suffer from BDS.

There are the Church-State Lifers who would rather immolate themselves than endure another breach of the Wall of Separation.

I don’t know about immolating themselves, but the ACLU does act as a sort of church in guiding and enforcing their devotion to rigid secularism.

There are The Philosopher Kings who are in it for intellectual thrills and who might be reading anything from Ayn Rand to Heidegger to the Death of God Theologians.

No doubt.

There are The Lone Rangers who see “Stop” signs as infringements on their personal civil liberties…

How true! Also see the Second Amendment controversies.

There is a small–too small, I think–Gay contingent.

I can’t speak to that.

There is The Lunatic Fringe composed of those who–speaking in secular tongues–equate all Evangelical Christians with the Taliban.

100% accurate.

There ended the intelligent analysis by the Professor.

“Creepily cocksure, pre-postmodern, faith in the possibilities of reason” is absolutely perfect.

Professor Blather on September 22, 2007 at 9:35 PM

I’d wouldn’t say perfect, as I tend to think “postmodernism” in philosophy is utter nonsense. In particular, Postmodernism did not invent a sophisticated and nuanced doubt about one’s own position as this statement implies. There were plenty of modern atheist philosophers who weren’t creepily cocksure. For instance,iIf one pays attention to the nuance of Nietzsche instead of his tendency to rhetorical hyberbole, you’ll find that he clearly did not have a creepily cocksure faith in Reason. Nietzsche was a pluralist who admitted many different interpretations of the world.

I used a question mark!

Chill.

Have a Widmers. It will get your eyes back on center.