Only 4 of them missed work!

I will reread the defenders statements, but if I recall correctly, I remember that the defenders were not able to intervene until after the victim had been knocked unconscious and beaten severely. I do not understand how their statements mitigate the assault.

That being said, it is not my intent to insult you or frustrate you. I appreciate the fact that you made these documents available that otherwise I never would have been able to see. I respect that you have a different view, but I am adamant in mine.

And lastly, if I keep getting your position on this issue wrong, please articulate more clearly what it is. I am trying to determine your point by reading the sum total of your posts on this thread and it seems like you are advocating that these students should get leniency for what is clearly a brutal and unprovoked attack. I vehemently disagree with that position.

At some point people of all races need to respect merit and not just fall back on group membership. Neither white people nor black people deserve special benefits based on their race. Period.

I simply do not find the inconsistent, self-serving testimony of two of the accused, credible. Now, if I were on the Jury and heard them testify and could observe their body language, I might change my mind.

The two I reference ARE NOT the accused. THEY ARE BARKER’S FRIENDS. THEY DEFENDED BARKER AGAINST THOSE WHO WERE TRYING TO BEAT HIM. THAT is why I find their testimony so relevant, and so should you. Although it is surely not their intention, they undermine Reed Walter’s characterization of the fight.

This is why I’m so freaking sick of this. You’re arguing against a position I don’t take, and lumping me in with people I vehemently disagree with. But you got that “What would MLK do” zinger in, so congratulations. You must be the winner.

Further, I’m not sure what you think “my case”

You are clearly advocating lenience for the assaulters, read your own posts.

I simply do not find the inconsistent, self-serving testimony of two of the accused, credible. Now, if I were on the Jury and heard them testify and could observe their body language, I might change my mind.

As I said before, if this is the best example you can find of Racism, then we have come very far indeed, because there is no racism here.

I know that is disappointing to a lot of activists that like to exploit victim status as a way to gain power, but that is how it is.

To even try to compare this case to the travesties of justice that inspired the civil right’s movement is an insult to the non violent protesters that worked hard for civil rights back when there was real racism everywhere in America.

What would MLK do? Would he defend these violent thugs and demand they get set “free” without punishment. I strongly doubt it.

Both of the statements of the two Barker defenders who took part in the fight indicate a brawl, not the 6 on 1 brutal pile on portrayed by Reed Walters. One guy, quite likely Bell, started it. Others quickly joined. The whole thing happened very quickly, and there was a crowd surging around the area so people who weren’t directly involved didn’t necessarily have a clear view. And people who were directly involved – on both sides – have agendas of their own to service. Add to that the fact that some of those statements were taken days later, after they’d all had time to discuss it amongst themselves.

That’s why I wanted them ALL out there, not just the ones I feel support my argument, and I accept that fact that people everywhere are going to pick the ones they like. So be it. I said earlier that people on both sides are going to say these documents support their case. I believe they DO support aspects of both sides of this case. I don’t see a conflict between deploring the fact that Barker was beaten, acknowledging that it was a crime, acknowledging that it didn’t happen in a vacuum, desiring fair punishment for those involved, and a host of other details related to this case.

Further, I’m not sure what you think “my case” is because not only has my opinion on this changed since I started blogging on it in June when the information was extremely limited, there is a nasty straw man tendency among blog commenters everywhere. Everybody wants to “win” the argument at hand, and it’s much easier to get those zingers in when you reduce the other person’s argument down to the lowest common denominator. I’m tired of engaging in those arguments. My source and I worked our @sses off getting this information and preparing it to be released, and now everybody else can duke it out if they want to. But I wanted the truth, and I wanted to move the story forward, since the media wouldn’t, and I’ve tried to be honest and fair about it. People of good will should be free to disagree about our conclusions, but at least we’re not relying on information filtered by the media anymore. That’s the best I can do.

http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=302B2BD0-5674-42E1-BE4C-F1530164219D

Anyone else want to see this slugfest dumped into The Vault?

Laura on September 26, 2007 at 11:55 PM

I read through all of the documents posted at your link.

Regarding the shotgun inident. I can’t form an opinion from the data provided and still can’t based on the statements provided. This is why I have not offered an opinion on this part of the Jena situation.

The documents “Walters Revoking Bell’s Bail” & “Medical records of Justin Barker” were dead links and therefore I could not read them.

I saw nothing in the remaining documents to indicate that should change my opinion that this was a gang style attack on an innocent victim led by a habitual felon that likes to intimidate people and commit assault.

As I said in another thread, I do not think that this constitutes attempted murder. The DA did overcharge, but that is not evidence of Racism. DA’s tend to overcharge so that they can force defendants into a plea bargain. this has nothing to do with race and everything to do with leverage.

I do not know enough about LA law to know what the criteria for a Juvenile being tried as an adult is. However, when a 17 year old with prior assault convictions commits aggravated assault, while still on probation, it certainly seems reasonable to consider charging that person as an adult if the law calls for it. I see no Racism in that, juveniles of all races are tried as adultrs when the situation warrants it.

A judge decided that trying this defendant as an adult in this case was inappropriate, so he intervened and sent the case to Juvenile court. This is within the judges perogative and I have no issue with it.

Michael Bell’s statement uses the SOGDI (Some Other Guy Did It) defense and seems to be intentionally written to be as vague as possible. It did not have a lot of credibility.

There are multiple witness statements that indicate Bell struck the victim from behind. These statements are not from participants in the fight and they match on key points. Therefore, they are more credible, in my eyes, than Bell’s statement.

I also noted multiple statements where a reference was made to a hit list of white students that were being targeted by
Bell and his gang. Here is where the conspiracy charge comes from. Absolutely justified and not racist, based on the facts.

Corwin Jones statement was short and to the point “I didn’t hit him”. Not very useful in terms of determining fact, and clearly self-serving. Witness L.J. observed Corwin Jones kick the victim in the head “for no reason”.

In the linked witness statements, there was evidence of premeditation, conspiracy and a strong impression was made that Bell and his gang made a habit of intimidating and terrorizing what they percieved as weaker students.

I see nothing in those statements except documentation of an unprovoked, violent attack performed in a cowardly manner from behind with a previously convicted violent thug as the ringleader.

I saw nothing that mitigated or justified this attack.

Again, as I said above, whether or not he should be charged as an adult is legal matter and a judge decided that he shouldn’t. I accept that judges ruling. However, he should be retried in Juvenile court and if found guilty should receive the appropriate sentance for a habitual felon that likes to intimidate and assault people.

Is there something in the witness statements, in particular, that you can call my attention to to prove your case? Because I saw nothing there.

——————————

Here’s some hilights of the witness statements:

——————————

From Witness L.J.: “…all of a sudden, a tall black boy came running up from the side and jumped Justin Barker and slammed his head on the concrete beam that people sometimes sit on. Theo Shaw and a group of other blacks were all standing there waiting for Justin and after he was knocked out cold on the ground Corwin Jones and Robert Bailey started kicking his head for no reason at all…”
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/jena/Jena6Incident13.pdf

—————–

From Witness D.R.: “Me and LE walked out of the gym and turned around when we heard Michael Bell yell. then Justin Barker walked out of the doorway and Michael Bell hit him. Justin fell and they started kicking him…”
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/jena/Jena6Incident11.pdf

——————

Witness J.L.: “…then my girlfriend told me that a black boy in her class had a hit list or something and me, J.H., C.P., E.S. and a lot of other people were on it that I can’t remember but he said that I was at the top of the list.”
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/jena/Jena6Incident07b.pdf

——————-

Witness L.E.: “Justin Barker walked out of the boys jim and a bunch of black boy were gathered around the jim doors and hit Barker and Barker hit the ground and the black boys started kicking him. the boy that threw the first kick was Mike Bell…”
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/jena/Jena6Incident12.pdf

———————-

I’ve sent him the last handful of witness statements and transcripts several times and he can’t seem to receive them for some reason, but there’s plenty there to get you started.

//making popcorn and preparing to enjoy the show

Bradky on September 26, 2007 at 11:32 PM

At least you aknowledge that your opinion is devoid of any facts.

JayHaw Phrenzie on September 26, 2007 at 11:19 PM

No more than you have to prove it is all the truth from the scriptures as you present it.

Emotional bluster is your bailiwick, not mine. Jesse, Al …sorry couldn’t resist sending your blood pressure up 30 points.

You cite Reed Walters as if he is the Prophet come from the mountaintop but refer to everything else as heresay. The Duke DA had it wrong, it is possible the Jena DA is wrong as well.

LOL – you have JADS (Jesse Al Derangement Syndrome) and don’t see how it colors your view of anything racial.

Bradky on September 26, 2007 at 10:26 PM

In the beginning of the Duke Fiasco, I did believe Mike Nifong, however within 2-3 weeks of the incident hitting the news, it became very clear from the evidence that no rape had occurred.

Do you have any actual evidence to cite as to why you think Reed Walters is lieing, or are you just offering emotional bluster and no facts?

What’s really going to be amusing is watching the goalpost moving and both sides saying these documents prove them right. And they’ll both be able to make a good case for it, too.

JayHaw Phrenzie on September 26, 2007 at 8:37 PM

You cite Reed Walters as if he is the Prophet come from the mountaintop but refer to everything else as heresay. The Duke DA had it wrong, it is possible the Jena DA is wrong as well.

LOL – you have JADS (Jesse Al Derangement Syndrome) and don’t see how it colors your view of anything racial.

The big picture of what the documents prove is that the media sucks,

The other big picture of what the documents prove is that these high school students are barely literate. for example, “ternt” instead of “turned,” “goen” instead of “going” … Good grief.

Laura on September 26, 2007 at 8:41 PM

When you present sources, I will analyze them. If they change my opinion, I will post so, here. Until then, though, I must view this as hearsay.

BTW, I would have the identical stance if 6 white students brutally beat a black student.

You do as you like, of course. As I said, just a friendly suggestion.

You really should wait until you’ve seen the rest before you get too entrenched in a position on this.

Laura on September 26, 2007 at 8:19 PM

Your post is undocumented hearsay. Please cite your sources or you have no credibility.

On the other hand, the Reed Walters, the District Attorney of Jena, LA, stated the following:

Conjure the image of schoolboys fighting: they exchange words, clench fists, throw punches, wrestle in the dirt until classmates or teachers pull them apart. Of course that would not be aggravated second-degree battery, which is what the attackers are now charged with. (Five of the defendants were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder.) But that’s not what happened at Jena High School.

The victim in this crime, who has been all but forgotten amid the focus on the defendants, was a young man named Justin Barker, who was not involved in the nooses incident three months earlier. According to all the credible evidence I am aware of, after lunch, he walked to his next class. As he passed through the gymnasium door to the outside, he was blindsided and knocked unconscious by a vicious blow to the head thrown by Mychal Bell. While lying on the ground unaware of what was happening to him, he was brutally kicked by at least six people.

Imagine you were walking down a city street, and someone leapt from behind a tree and hit you so hard that you fell to the sidewalk unconscious. Would you later describe that as a fight?

Only the intervention of an uninvolved student protected Mr. Barker from severe injury or death. There was serious bodily harm inflicted with a dangerous weapon — the definition of aggravated second-degree battery. Mr. Bell’s conviction on that charge as an adult has been overturned, but I considered adult status appropriate because of his role as the instigator of the attack, the seriousness of the charge and his prior criminal record.

And, unlike you, I will cite my source:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/26/opinion/26walters.html?em&ex=1190952000&en=92c547bf9d97eb27&ei=5087

Why on earth would I accept the undocumented, uncited hearsay of an anonymous internet poster as being more credible than a statement provided by the elected District Attorney of Jena?

“Justin and KR was walking out of the gym when I saw a black boy heard a black boy say something to Justin I turned my head and I saw somebody hit Justin. He fell in between the gym door and the concrete barrier. I saw Robert Bailey kneel down and punch Justin in the head. ES pushed Robert Bailey and he fell. Then Carwin Jones kicked him in the head. ES pushed Carwin back. I ran over there and Theo Shaw tried to kick him and I pushed Theo Shaw down. I also saw Mychal Bell standing over him. Then somebody yelled teacher and they all ran away. The last person I saw was RB (Bug) standing over him, but I’m not sure if he kicked him or not. Then I saw Coach BL kneel down on the ground beside Justin, but I never saw him during the fight.”

You really should wait until you’ve seen the rest before you get too entrenched in a position on this. This is from a friend of Barker’s who is certainly NOT going to make light of the attack or take a pro-Jena 6 position. This is someone who had a good view of what went on and provided details. This is someone who got in a few licks himself. The witness statements are conflicting in some areas, as you’d expect, but it is NOT a cut and dried “savage” “brutal” “six on one” attack. Barker’s injuries are consistent with this account and the account of ES, another friend of Barker’s.

Does this mean that a crime was not committed? Of course not. The attackers committed a crime and should be punished. But I stand by my comment:
Laura on September 21, 2007 at 4:31 PM

The big picture of what the documents prove is that the media sucks, because this information could have been put out quite a long time ago. But they destroy big chunks of the arguments on both the left and the right. Including arguments I’ve made on my blog. There’s been times I’ve gotten entrenched in trying to prove a point wrt this story – and forgot that what I really wanted was the truth to come out. And I think that may be true of some of y’all as well. You really ought to hold off a bit on this until the rest of the facts are out. Just a friendly suggestion.

Bradky on September 26, 2007 at 6:23 PM

I have as much contempt for White supremacists as I do for black supremacist. They are both sides of the same racist coin and they have absolutely no relevance on this unprovoked assault.

There is no more integrity in being a black racist than there is in being a white one. Anyone that filters their entire world view through the prism of race is a racist period. Shie fits? Wear it.

In the end, we are all the same species, color is irrelevent. Having more pigment does not entitle you to special treatment and neither does having less pigment.

JayHaw Phrenzie on September 26, 2007 at 4:38 PM

And hypocrisy is completely ignoring the three egregious cases cited in the article as well as crying racism because a white prosecutor wrongly accused white kids of an offense against a black liar.

Case of the century indeed!

JayHaw Phrenzie on September 26, 2007 at 4:23 PM

Defending the thugs actions by pointing out discrepancies and contributing factors for the reasons the marchers decided to go to Jena? Wow – that is a leap in logic.

Yes I get it now. Mychal Bell caused the 10K protesters, jackson and sharpton to march to the town and irritate you so greatly.
Nothing less than the death penalty is appropriate for that terrible offense.
Does that about sum up your position?