Kerry denounces the tasing of the moonbat; Update: Two officers placed on leave; Update: Moonbat is … a journalism major
posted at 1:01 pm on September 18, 2007 by Allahpundit
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It’s seared, seared into his memory.
“In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way,” Kerry said in a statement. “I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of responding when he was taken into custody.”
“I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building,” he continued. “I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted.”
He was obviously still in the room when the guy was tased, although he may have been too far away and preoccupied to tell what was happening in the back of the room. You’ll hear him say “um” into the mike at around 0:25 (if you’re counting down), right around the time the guy is screaming at the cops not to tase him. They zap him five seconds later.
Note also what Kerry says about the student barging to the front of the line; a new eyewitness account at MM’s corroborates that. Not that it justifies the cops grabbing at him when his mike was cut off, but like I said last night, there was obviously more going on before the clip picks up than some tool politely asking Kerry about impeachment.
The student, Andrew Meyer, is out of jail and “in good spirits.” I’ll bet; not only is he a minor celebrity now, he’s getting the full free-speech martyr protest fete at U of F this afternoon. Exit question: As much as conservatives and tedious libertarians are knocking Waffles for failing to come to the moonbat’s aid, if he had swooped in, we’d all be knocking him for interfering with the police in the execution of their duties, right?
Update: I can’t believe this stupid thing has become a national news story. Two cops are now on leave while they sort things out, says the president of U of F.
Update: But of course — Meyer is a journalism major. Here’s the Herald’s account of the incident via a university spokesman:
At about 1 p.m., Kerry was nearing the end of a forum at University Auditorium, a large facility beside UF’s trademark Century Tower. At that point, audience members were allowed to ask questions at a microphone, university spokesman Steve Orlando said.
The person in front of Meyer was told he would be the last person to speak, Orlando said. Meyer said he was upset with that, so Kerry gave him the OK.
When he took the microphone, Meyer asked Kerry several questions. On amateur video linked from Meyer’s website, his questions included why Kerry conceded in the 2004 presidential election, why not impeach President Bush now, and whether Kerry was a member of the Skull and Bones secret society at Yale University.
When reminded that he was only supposed to ask one question, Meyer responded in the video “He’s talked for two hours. I think I can have two minutes.”
”He had used his allotted time. His microphone was cut off then he became upset,” Orlando said.
Watch the clip again. He gets cut off at 2:09, turns around and gestures at 2:08, and the cops grab him literally two seconds later.
Update: This is now a story in Britain, too.
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A little weak for man who has seen countless innocent people tortured, and ears cut off, and electrical devices hooked to…, all the while watching and taking notes to be used at senate hearings. And he is concerned about a little tazer to a whining twerp?
I would rather be tazered than listen to Kerry speak.
right2bright on September 18, 2007 at 2:37 PM
Hmm. Did I find a rather oblique Godwin’s law violation already?
Oh! Lookee – sure enough. Here’s another ever popular “police state” barb from the same goof:
Definitely a police state. I’m sure if President Imadangnutjob in Iran was accosted with blow job comments and Skull and Bones silliness, it’d be just the same.
Except than we could religion to the discussion. And these threads would be even better.
————–
I’ll meet you guys at the re-education camp later. I’m sure the feds will be clamping down on this discussion in 5 … 4 … 3 ….
Sigh. Bush has even screwed up his police state.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 2:37 PM
Initially yes, since Kerry had called one last kid, and Mr. Tinfoil McLookatme was throwing a tantrum that he wasn’t picked.
Esthier on September 18, 2007 at 2:38 PM
I think as soon as he called the cop “bro”, some sort of painful force was justified.
see-dubya on September 18, 2007 at 2:39 PM
How much experience do you have with crowd dynamics/mob psychology? Ya, I didn’t think so. On the other hand I, having been a professional musician for over 20 years, have quite a bit. Your comments are based on ignorance and fear, mine on personal experience. Instead of looking like the last bastion of freedom you look like a moonbat.
Believe me I have no great love for the cops or authority (you know, that whole rebellious rock and roll musician thing), but I do have tons of experience with crowds. I don’t like seeing people arrested. It does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
But I do know how crowds work and I do know what happens when a crowd turns into a mob. It is something that must be stopped before it can even get a chance to happen, the results are that bad.
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 2:40 PM
Obviously. Any white man who uses that term in conversation should be tased on principle.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 2:41 PM
Great point.
By the way, what’s your band? Can we get tickets? Do you have groupies? Can I help you with your tasing duties?
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Grow up, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 2:43 PM
That’s what I meant in the previous threat about “self-fulfilling.”
Liberals lose election and, rather than accept defeat, propagate the idea that the system is broken and must be bypassed: we were disenfranchised, it was rigged, he’s not my president, and therefore, any actions we take are justified.
Therefore, even though this kid was apparently given every opportunity to engage in civil discourse, he approached it like he did, expecting to be “disappeared.” He’s desperate to seize this chance at speaking truth to power. His erratic behavior draws out the cops, who have to get more and more used to this kind of crap. Moonbats allege further erosion of their civil rights, thus justifying among themselves further uncivil acts.
saint kansas on September 18, 2007 at 2:46 PM
Speak for yourself. Despite the obvious showmanship of Andrew, the police did not need to zap him, nor rush him out so abruptly, regardless of police guidelines. I am disappointed with that liberal Senator for not doing what liberals are supposed to be doing.
Free Constitution on September 18, 2007 at 2:47 PM
Great comment. Make that two of us. Same for Hillary-speak.
Entelechy on September 18, 2007 at 2:48 PM
Sorry I am retired these days. Let’s just say that I played for a big hair metal band of some modest repute during the 80’s and leave it at that. No I did not play under my own name as there was somebody else with the same name whose band had become quite well know a few years earlier, so google is not your friend on that one. :lol: :lol:
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 2:48 PM
“OW! OW! OW!!!!!”
Schadenfreude.
Loundry on September 18, 2007 at 2:49 PM
Thread, not threat.
Well, maybe threat.
saint kansas on September 18, 2007 at 2:51 PM
Michelle Malkin takes this on
There was more to this than just what was on the video.
Apologies if this has already been pointed out.
JannyMae on September 18, 2007 at 2:53 PM
Plenty. And for reasons far more involved than a 20-year ‘professional musician’ heavy rocker I’ve never heard of…or did I miss the part where your vast expertise educated us on the radical differences between a sit-down Q&A and a booze & drug fueled concert?
No Prof…no Godwin violation…dorian is no Nazi…just a dash of hyperbole to emphasise his thoughtless acceptance of police state authority.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 2:56 PM
The troofers are up in arms. Kevin Barrett, the nutjob who has called for journalists, US Senators, and filmmakers to be hung for treason is setting up a website to target the police officers involved.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/09/kevin-stalker-barrett-now-targetting.html
JamesB on September 18, 2007 at 2:59 PM
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 2:56 PM
Your attitude is what leads our society to be pressured into tolerating any and all behaviors. He wasn’t exercising his free speech rights. He was crapping on everyone elses’ and making a nuisance of himself in order to get attention.
Sadly, he’s gotten it.
JannyMae on September 18, 2007 at 3:01 PM
I’m glad I only gave the idea of becoming a cop little more than a passing thought. If he had pulled out a gun and blown the Corpse Bride’s head off the cops would have been accused of sitting around with their dicks in their hands while a war veteran and American Hero bit the dust. When they do their job and kick skinny Liberal ass who has yet to figure out that charging at a Senator, not letting other people speak so he can, disobeying a police order and fighting back (even if it was the Funky Chicken legendary liberal martial art) when they try to detain you, people whine about “polce brutality”. Bah, if you wanna do law enforcement join the CIA, you get to waterboard terrorists and Bush takes the heat. Oh wait…
Darth Executor on September 18, 2007 at 3:01 PM
More fun with tasers!
Not all that different from what happened here, for example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIY3TemTpaM
I’m finding it awfully strange that some of you don’t seem to get just how standard what happened here is.
If a cop gives you an order and you don’t obey, they’ll use force. The force will escalate as long as you wiggle and squirm. If you do what Sparky McLookatMe did, you’ll get tazed.
Every time.
Standard. The only thing interesting in the video is Waffles droning in the background, and the kid’s oh-so-dramatic “hep me, hep me” performance. And the fact that at the beginning three cops couldn’t manage to just walk the kid out.
Other than the cops’ lack of bouncer skills, nothing special happens here.
It’s pretty simple: remain calm and semi-polite. You won’t get hurt and you won’t get tased.
Act like this kid, you’ll get tased. Every time.
Just like here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWaCD6jIH5Q
Or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zQ0_d-BFM4
Or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J9_Xcs0Tho
Or here. This one’s pretty illustrative since its a small woman, two big cops, and she’s just speeding – but she decides to resist getting out of the car.
The results are predictable. And for the record, she sued – and lost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUcIxSv_4Lo
Standard.
And finally, real live moonbats getting tasered just like Sparky up there, on the ground and everything.
The lesson in this one is – screaming “f*ck the pigs!” is a good way to get tasered.
Interesting to note what the cops explicitly say, by the way: “Comply and you will not get tased.”
It’s all standard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVdH1G0KQt4
——————————–
If it’ll make some of you feel better, here’s video of Erik Estrada and LaToya Jackson getting tased. Now that’s good TV.
Yet somehow they survived:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by5_8SpGX-E
Awesome!
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 3:04 PM
Sorry to disappoint you but I have had my share of sit-down Q&A and crowd dynamics/mob psychology still apply. Any time you get more than 50 people in a group, crowd dynamics/mob psychology applies.
Please excuse me while I laugh at the ignorance of this statement. As for your plenty…yea, right…
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 3:05 PM
Was behind enemy lines and didn’t realize this thread was up.
I read this one and I think there is another that I didn’t have time for.
Also this one:
What Happened From John Kerry’s Perspective
The last is from the Kerry spokesperson.
Connie on September 18, 2007 at 3:07 PM
The one good that will come out of this is that liberals will never be be able to shut up a nutjob at a mic at one of their meetings without the crowd going crazy about a police state. Meanwhile, at conservative meetings the questioners will be constantly looking behind them to see if they are about to be zapped. Ok, that’s two good things.
pedestrian on September 18, 2007 at 3:12 PM
You’ve convinced me dorian. You’re an expert. The crowd dynamics of rock concerts and Q&A sit-downs are identical.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 3:12 PM
And if their orders are unlawful…then what? Or are you suggesting that civilians are an underclass that must subordinate themselves completely to the police?
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 3:19 PM
The problem arises when some clown attends the sit-down and acts like he’s at a rock concert.
In my town, there are lots of kidz who attend concerts apparently for the sole purpose of crowd surfing and stage diving. I mean, these kidz stage dive to Barry Manilow. (Lush, actually. Who stage-dives at Lush?) They annoy the crowd, security steps in and crushes their ribs, and people cheer.
saint kansas on September 18, 2007 at 3:21 PM
Ochlan,
You throwing out ‘police state authority’ at every opportunity clearly reveals a lack of personal experience with one.
For a really effective, efficient ‘police state authority,’ might I recommend the following countries:
Russia (lived there…it’s nice)
China
Saudi Arabia or Iran (esp. the muttawa – woohoo!)
Or, if those seem a little too strong for your tastes, try Belgium…it’s basically a Socialist Welfare State with a hint of Nazi Totalitarianism and Islamofascism. (I hear the riot police are real friendly…wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
Miss_Anthrope on September 18, 2007 at 3:21 PM
From childish to intellectually dishonest. If you actually had any experience you wouldn’t be making such a foolish statement. Yes in fact the dynamics are incredibly similar.
First off let me dispel a couple of your pathetically mistaken notions.
1) Rock concerts are not drunken orgies. Fewer than 15 percent of those attending even the largest concerts are using any substance and that includes alcohol.
2) It is not the nature of the forum that determine the dynamics of the crowd, it is the events that take place in the crowd itself.
3) Concerts are not the only crowd related interactions that professional musicians have to engage in.
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 3:25 PM
We are really more and more embracing an Arab thumbnail everyday, it’s unsettling to say the least. This tape did not really look like America, it looked like Iran or Saudi Arabia.
AprilOrit on September 18, 2007 at 3:27 PM
Why did it take 4 cops and a taser to accomplish what your average corner-bar bouncer does every weekend? Get him out of the auditorium, stand in front of the door, problem solved.
RightOFLeft on September 18, 2007 at 3:35 PM
Go watch a few of the videos I posted.
It’s pretty simple: if you’re causing a disturbance and the police nicely attempt to escort you out – go.
That is a lawful order. It is not an arrest. If you resist, you have committed a misdemeanor and are subject to arrest.
It is our system. If you actually are arrested and the arrest was invalid, you’ll have to take it up with the courts.
Fighting with the police is not the answer. And not smart, either.
Stop and think for one second: do you honestly believe every citizen should individually decide for themselves which instructions they will or will not obey?
Think. You can do it.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 3:35 PM
Way to ruin the dream.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 3:36 PM
Of course.
Because if pulled this in Iran, you’d be free later that day, the video would be shown everywhere, and it’d be the cops suspended while you go on talks shows …
Right? Iran? Yeah? Just like that?
Oh. The stupidity. It burns.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 3:37 PM
You could not be wider of the mark.
I have never claimed that America is a police state…only that certain people here are betraying their tacit acceptance of police state authority. If left unchecked, however, this acquiescence may indeed help pave the way for those with future police state ambitions.
This kid is a jerk, no arguments there…but the moment we accept the notion that the police should be the arbiters of force over jerkishness…
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 3:38 PM
Yes. If you wish to remain free.
Of course, exercising ones’ freedom to think and act individually can have consequences…some good, some bad. Free people are at liberty to make choices, but nobody is free from consequence.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 3:43 PM
Thank you for clarifying your perspective. Previous remarks from you did not give me that impression at all, so I appreciate you giving me your full opinion.
I agree the police should bever go unchecked, but I have no problem under these particular circumstances with their actions.
Of course, I’ve read witness accounts of his actions prior to the point where the video picks up that give me that opinion…until any additional information or evidence arises. (my disclaimer)
Miss_Anthrope on September 18, 2007 at 3:45 PM
I certainly agree with your disclaimer…I can only offer my opinion based on what I could gather from the vid.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 3:47 PM
In attempting to avoid Geraldo on FOX lately, I’ve watched a lot of cop stuff on Court TV lately. I’ve seen a couple of cases where I thought the cops were a little over the top, but the most important impression I’ve taken away from the shows is that cops are not taking much B.S. anymore. (And there’s a lot of B.S. right now) The citizens/perps that get treated the best are those who know when to shut up – which is immediately. Those who keep running their mouths don’t fare so well.
Why are cops not taking much B.S. anymore? Because they can’t afford to. The political atmosphere in this country has many at a boiling point. That, coupled with methed-out behavior, campus shootings, etc. makes it absolutely necessary for them to react to completely subdue and remove. This idiot was asking for help from others in the audience and if others were like-minded, they could have ended up with a full-scale riot.
HE IS NOT A VICTIM. The cops did what they had to do. Good for them.
Connie on September 18, 2007 at 3:50 PM
But see, that’s where I think the Left would disagree. I honestly have seen too many who believe that their actions have no consequences.
I wholeheartedly agree with your statement, in case I didn’t state that clearly. I think we’ve either raised or allowed others to influence our children to believe there are no consequences.
I find people like that extremely taxing.
Miss_Anthrope on September 18, 2007 at 3:50 PM
RightOFLeft …6 cops. I believe 2 more come in on the first tackle.
I’m not going to jump on the police state bandwagon but I do feel they were more over the top than the situation called for….
CBarker on September 18, 2007 at 3:51 PM
So you were in Stryper?
SouthernDem on September 18, 2007 at 3:53 PM
You could not be wider of the mark.
No, you are the one who couldn’t be more off the mark. American jurisprudence has always asserted that individuals are required to co-operate with members of law enforcement. It is not and never has been an option. Nor is or has obeying a police office ever been “acquiescence” to a police state. It’s the law and it always has been.
The US Constitution has a very specific provision in it for situations where an individual believes that any member of the law enforcement community has acted in an inappropriate manner, that provision does not and never has included ignoring or disobeying that member of the law enforcement community.
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 3:57 PM
Apparently “think” was too lofty a request?
You obviously are unfamiliar with how our system works. If this is really how you envision society becoming, you’ll have to change the laws first. For now, it falls to the courts to determine the legality of a detainment or arrest. Your alternative is not idealistic utopia it is unrealistic anarchy.
No thanks.
At least you got the consequences part right. This kid would have had none at all. He chose … poorly.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 3:59 PM
Good point Miss_Anthrope, I couldn’t agree more.
I’ve also noticed that on sites like this, where there is a predominant ideological/sociological trend, it’s all too easy to deride ‘outsiders’.
The kid is a moonbat, he’s excitable and blathering on a bit, and nobody here is interested in his drivel, so we cheer on the actions of the cops coz we’re glad to see the back of him. That doesn’t say very much for our integrity IMHO.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 4:00 PM
The travesty is that two officers are now on “administrative leave” — which means they’re sent home, without pay (generally, in a case like this) and told to stay by the phone so IA can contact them. It was a clean bust and the officers should be commended for their restraint — not sent home.
srhoades on September 18, 2007 at 4:01 PM
A couple of things I’d be interested in. Did the UPD officers at the mic have radio contact via ear buds or something and were receiving instructions? The one lady officer was looking to the back for what appeared to me to be instructions.
If so, who was giving the instructions and were the instructions solely those decided by the UPD people or was there either Kerry staff or Kerry security input. It could be the officers acted not because Meyers turned to them after he found the mic turned off, but because the mic was turned off which was the signal to start the escort.
Which leaves me with the last, which is who decided to turn the mic off and was Kerry’s staff involved in that decision. They say the sponsors did but I find it hard to believe a senator’s staff would allow the public appearance of their senator to be left solely at the mercy of the judgment of college kids.
I still am not positive the kid deserved such swift initial escort treatment but he definitely deserved all he got after his initial flailing 5 feet from the microphone and most definitely the tasing.
Dusty on September 18, 2007 at 4:02 PM
No. Believe it or not even in the 70’s and 80’s the vast majority of concert goers went to see the show, not get drunk and or stoned. The image of rock concerts being great drunken orgies may make for great movies or television but it simply isn’t a true reflection of reality.
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 4:03 PM
Wrong. If he’d been one of us, we’d be saying the exact same thing.
Connie on September 18, 2007 at 4:03 PM
I’m betting this kid’s resume is already enroute to The New Republic.
mugged on September 18, 2007 at 4:04 PM
Leave Stryper alone!
saint kansas on September 18, 2007 at 4:04 PM
dorian, prof…could you explain why Texas has seen fit to make provision for the lawful disarming of police by civilians? I am sure there are other states with similar lawful principles.
The point of mentioning the above is that there does exist a very real acknowledgement that the police are not our lords & masters, and there should always be a lawful right to resist.
If your judgement is wrong, however…well…you’re in even deeper trouble, of course.
BTW, prof…your use of the term ‘anarchy’ is poor. Anarchy does not imply lawlessness.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 4:05 PM
If he were one of us the condemnation would probably be stronger since we expect a higher degree of civilized behavior out of conservatives.
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 4:07 PM
I have a feeling that the campus cops were unprepared or unrehearsed in what they would do if and when moonbats attack but that only extends to the point where they didn’t remove the offender completely from the room quickly and as quietly as possible. From everything I’ve seen on this the use of the taser was correct as the offender was clearly still resisting arrest and was not subdued. Looks within policy and legal to me but I’d have to give them a “6″ on smoothness of execution. Nothing that a little practice couldn’t polish up.
The larger factor it seems is that of why shouldn’t this guy have been allowed to savage Kerry in a duel of wits. Some seem to think that because every mental defective believes he has the right to disrupt a speech that everyone should be forced to listen to him. Notwithstanding ol’ waffles decision to now support anarchy this moonbat certainly wasn’t removed from the mic without Kerry’s people requesting it.
Buzzy on September 18, 2007 at 4:09 PM
Sure it does.
No such thing as utopia.
Connie on September 18, 2007 at 4:11 PM
You are going to have to prove that assertion.
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 4:12 PM
Hydrous – Anhydrous
Heirarchy – Anarchy
An absence of an authoritarian heirarchy does not imply there are no laws…or no enforcement of the laws.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 4:15 PM
Not to mention the fact that he’d be making all of us look bad, and giving the libs a club to beat us with.
Bottom line, that little punk apparently assumed that he could dictate to everyone at that gathering, including the police, how things were going to happen. Dumbass assumption, if you ask me.
ReubenJCogburn on September 18, 2007 at 4:19 PM
You can call it “poor” all you like, but I’m not sure what other single word succinctly describes a situation in which each of us decides on an ad hoc basis when to obey police instructions or not. Are you an anarchist, out of curiosity?
Nice straw man, by the way, but nobody is suggesting you are universally required to obey obviously unlawful instructions. If the police tell you to do something illegal, of course you’re within your rights to refuse.
Nor am I surprised that Texas has a statute like the one you describe. Although I’m not familiar with the specifics.
But as you point out – you had better be right. The legal presumption will heavily favor the police. And if you actively resist the police, you may well end up being tazed … or worse.
You can indeed address your grievances later. For now, you are expected to obey instructions – unless obviously unlawful – for obvious civic reasons.
An easy scenario: imagine a terrorist attack. The police have information about what’s coming next. They deploy in mass to evacuate the population.
Now imagine each citizen deciding for themselves whether to obey.
To steal from Leonidas’ alter ego – that’s madness. Anarchy indeed.
And to come back to this situation, most real-world situations are just like it. The police are attempting to escort you off the premises. You are free to fight an arrest or even litigate as a plaintiff … later. In court. The judge will decide.
You do *not* have a legal right to disobey. Certainly not in a case like this. If you decide for yourself to disobey, you just became a criminal.
For the record, I don’t believe for a second you are really disagreeing with this point. The reasons for statutes requiring obedience to police instruction are just too obvious to miss.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 4:24 PM
I have stayed out of this debate because of the uncalled for condescending nature of people arguing the ‘moral authority’ of the police here. If the police had left that guy alone, he would have sat down and listened to his hero Kerry answer his question and nothing would have happened. This was an incident BECAUSE OF the police.
There will come a time in the near future where a Muslim cop demands that you pray and observe Ramadan (as happens in Muslim areas of European countries). If you resist, well expect to be brow beaten into submission and just ‘tell it to the judge’ why you ‘resisted the commands of a police officer’.
The South Koreans were beaten as hostages because they would not convert and pray. I guess they should have just quietly allowed submission to take hold.
Those here saying these police did the right thing assume that they ALWAYS do the right thing. Police are human. They don’t always do the right thing. I guess some of you wouldn’t have been satisfied until there was blood. Maybe some day you will get your wish.
But allowing police to beat up someone like this whose only crime was ‘resisting arrest’ when there was not cause to arrest him in the first place is very dangerous. Your children might have to deal with such an incident above. I only hope that the sharia courts they have to attend in America don’t take the police man’s side above the Constitution.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 4:36 PM
Exactly, especially if someone on our side was being that whiny.
What? Those who enforce laws on others are by definition authority figures who are higher on the hierarchy than others.
Esthier on September 18, 2007 at 4:44 PM
I’m just me.
Of course you have no ‘legal right’ (whatever that is) to disobey. You also have no legal obligation to obey. The police do not have carte blanche authority to dictate your life. If the police are acting within their authority, and you disobey, then yes, of course you are guilty of something – misdemeanor at first, steadily rising the more you disobey, I imagine.
But if an officer is acting outside his authority – unlawfully – you have a choice to make. Go along to get along (and sue later), or resist. An extreme hypothetical would be if you witness a cop deploying a weapon of deadly force unlawfully – do you shoot the cop, or let the victims relatives sue? The point here is that ‘going along to get along’ ain’t always a smart option.
Free people should be adamant in maintaining their liberty to make that choice for themselves – individually. You may wish to see society as compliant sheep, I do not.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 4:45 PM
So you’re arguing that they were acting outside of their authority when they attempted to move a disruption from the room?
Esthier on September 18, 2007 at 4:46 PM
Doesn’t say much for mine then, either, I guess. I actually laughed at his reaction, but I’ve become so immune to the cries of “wolf” after living in a Leftie hotbed for so long. *sigh*
I think you argue effectively for the theory of law and sef-rule, but in practicality it’s hard enough to implement (as I’m sure you know). Add the wonderful assistance of “edumacators” (vs. educators, those few who really teach), social programs, and everything else brought in from the Leftie Socialists that produces such thoughtless, self-involved, vacuous, entitled pricks, and you have what we see in this video.
I recall Jefferson’s rules regarding the status of men. One cannot be free and ignorant in civilization, he declared.
According to Jefferson, one can only exist as ignorant and free in savagery. If one is ignorant in civilization, it must be assumed that one is then unfree because of their lack of “true” education. The condition of education, not some schooling system.
I’ve spent 20+ years trying to educate them, which has been much like putting makeup on a pig…it serves no point & I find it tedious (who cares if the pig is annoyed).
If I am not to be driven crazy by this worthless lot, I must entertain myself. Ergo, mockery and sarcasm are the only solutions…I wish I could’ve remained in the “attempted to achieve perfection daily” category, but there it is.
I have become what I despise. Well, not totally. Just when I see stuff like this.
Miss_Anthrope on September 18, 2007 at 4:47 PM
Dude, you’re comparing apples to oranges. One is an interruption of the right to free assembly by an attention freak (and a whiny one at that), while the other involves kidnapping, forceful conversion, and killings.
Care to find a better comparison, please?
Thank you.
Miss_Anthrope on September 18, 2007 at 4:50 PM
Certainly, freedom does not come as a free download to your iphone…it requires intellectual muscle….muscle that has undoubtedly atrophied thanks in no small part to ‘edumacators’ as you so candidly observe.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 4:53 PM
Dude, I think that atrophy has reached “skeletal” proportions! ;)
Miss_Anthrope on September 18, 2007 at 4:54 PM
From what I can tell from the vid, yes…that’s it in a nutshell. It did not appear that this numbskull was doing anything that would warrant the surpression of his right to speak, assemble etc. As somebody earlier observed, he should have been left to run out of steam…
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 4:57 PM
Well, of course a guy whose entire pattern of behavior in that room was acting disruptive would have sat down meekly like a good little church mouse. Right after the monkeys flew out of his butt.
ReubenJCogburn on September 18, 2007 at 4:59 PM
Hey Reuben…I’ve been to countless public meetings and seen sh!tloads of people get up, vent, and sit down again.
There was no reason to believe this guy would be any different. He grabbed the mike, waved his arms around a bit, blathered on about some nonsense…BFD
As far as I could see, people were just sitting around watching the show, smiling, some laughing…no mass panic…this kid is a joke, he should have been left alone.
Ochlan on September 18, 2007 at 5:03 PM
Are you judging this incident just based on what’s on the tape? Because if you haven’t read the eyewitness accounts (linked above) to know what happened prior to the taped footage, you don’t know the whole story. It wasn’t a case of handing a guy the mike for one question like at a town meeting and then passing it on. He’d already made a nuisance of himself before the stuff on the tape, that’s why the cops and the Kerry people already had their eyes on him.
ReubenJCogburn on September 18, 2007 at 5:16 PM
The video on the DailyKos site includes some dolt at the end yelling “police brutality! rodney king!” Not quite. This weenie is no Rodney King, and those officers were no LAPD. A decent bar bouncer could have done a better job.
When the officers began escorting him from the room, there was applause that he was leaving. Had they succeeded, that would have been that – idiot ejected to the gratitude of the crowd, order restored. The officers failed to manage the situation, so it degenerated quickly, and the nutjob is getting far more sympathy than he deserves.
As to Kerry – just one more bit of confirmation that we dodged a bullet in 2004.
sulla on September 18, 2007 at 5:21 PM
But I’m certain when he gets a gig at one of the nation’s papers, he’ll be objective, right?
RightWinged on September 18, 2007 at 5:31 PM
He and STB will be the next Woodward and Bernstein. Or, more likely, the next Lenny and Squiggy.
ReubenJCogburn on September 18, 2007 at 5:36 PM
It could have been handled better even if what the eyewitnesses are saying happened prior to what we see on the tape is true. The cops could have just separated him from the mic by stepping in front of him and told him to leave for jumping ahead of others. Instead they swarmed him with several officers all at once.
Yeah the guy is a loon but the cops didn’t handle it correctly IMO.
Benaiah on September 18, 2007 at 5:40 PM
Sure it would…yeah right, you go Blather. I can see you fuming at the mouth while writing…..Iran has talk shows?
AprilOrit on September 18, 2007 at 5:55 PM
Did you catch that fat female cops running toward the audience to try to stop the filming?
Unbelievable how fat people can serve on a Police Force in Florida….I stand with Coulter and her dislike of fatties.
AprilOrit on September 18, 2007 at 5:58 PM
Key words there: “Sit down again.” This guy wouldn’t.
But yeah, he should have been allowed to “run out of steam.” Everybody should just be able to do whatever they want, no matter how it affects anybody else.
Jim Treacher on September 18, 2007 at 6:35 PM
Whatever happened to nightsticks???
Claimsratt on September 18, 2007 at 6:53 PM
Whatever happened to nightsticks???
Claimsratt on September 18, 2007 at 6:53 PM
The Romans called them fasces.
Mussolini gave them a bad name.
sulla on September 18, 2007 at 7:15 PM
Think Rodney King……..
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 7:21 PM
Good grief. My daughter is a journalism major. Isn’t that an offset of some kind? I hope?
Rightwingsparkle on September 18, 2007 at 8:07 PM
Whatever happened to nightsticks???
Oh yeah, that would have looked better, the cops beating him.
The tasers should have two settings. One is “this is a warning..little ouch.” Then the second setting is “AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Rightwingsparkle on September 18, 2007 at 8:09 PM
ThackerAgency must not have actually listened to what the moonbat nutjob was saying when he calls him a fan of Kerry’s. From what I can tell, he seems to be accusing him of being in some sort of conspiracy to hand the Presidency over to Bush. But, that’s beside the point.
Did you even read the account at MM’s site?:
http://michellemalkin.com/
Scroll about 55% of the way down the page to UF student Tyler Antar’s email explaining exactly what happened.
And then go watch the video here:
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/18/video-new-footage-of-the-tasing-of-the-moonbat/
And maybe then you’ll understand that this whacko was never going to sit back down.
It would be nice if the people who are adamant that this idiot did nothing to deserve being cut off from the mike and what was at first supposed to be escorted from the room before he resisted would read the eyewitness accounts of what actually happened.
serpentineshel on September 18, 2007 at 8:24 PM
But dude…They might have to change some of their precious preconceived notions about the basic social fabric of America if they did that…
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 8:41 PM
But dude…They might have to change some of their precious preconceived notions about the basic social fabric of America if they did that…
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 8:42 PM
Sorry about the double post, my stupid internet connection is acting up……
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 8:44 PM
Nah, actually knowing the relevant facts in the case might be strange and frightening. It could even result in having an informed opinion–wouldn’t want that to happen. Better just to stay wrapped in that warm comfy bubble of sweet sweet ignorance.
ReubenJCogburn on September 18, 2007 at 8:44 PM
Just in case no none else said it…. he was for the tasering before he was against it.
He also flip flopped on his boat name, recently changing it from Scaramouche to Let it Be. Why Let it Be? Yellow Submarine was already taken by Ted Kennedy.
Alden Pyle on September 18, 2007 at 8:59 PM
I blame Kerry only for not coming to the moonbat’s rhetorical aid. He could have said something. I would have.
aengus on September 18, 2007 at 9:22 PM
AND
SilverStar830 on September 18, 2007 at 1:25 PM
Hot Air posted the original video. Are you
rantingsuggesting we shouldn’t have commented on it because it was a “snippet”, even though we didn’t know it was a “snippet”?Comment dittoes^^ to serpentineshel on September 18, 2007 at 8:24 PM
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 1:41 PM
Maybe its because your music sucks and they were pissed they paid to hear you?
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 2:10 PM
What??? Is crowd psychology 101 a prerequisite for a degree nowadays? How else to explain that you find this disturbing?
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 2:40 PM
And you sound like a horses’ ass.
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 2:43 PM
I was in the music biz for 20 years and I went to hundreds of concerts. I find it hard to believe that you were playing to large arenas, so that leaves us with smaller venues. I never once saw a crowd get out of hand, so if it happened to you a lot, you may want to think about why that is.
Jaibones on September 18, 2007 at 1:43 PM
Well said. Oh, and I’ve made doriangrey the poster child of fascism :)
Buy Danish on September 19, 2007 at 12:06 AM
G. K. Chesterton
JimC on September 19, 2007 at 12:12 AM
Could obnoxious journalism boy be the face of Lefty Rage Boy? Perhaps somebody could make little action figures which talked, ranting on interminably in one snippet then screaming “PLEASE DON’T TASE ME BRO!” in the next. The figure could come with a little taser you could shock him with. The doll would go into convulsions and scream.
I’m thinking $29.95 plus tax and shipping.
Tantor on September 19, 2007 at 12:02 PM
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