Isiah Thomas: It’s different when white people call women “bitches”
posted at 7:28 pm on September 18, 2007 by Allahpundit
Actually, that headline’s not fair. It’s different when white people call black women “bitches,” he says. Or rather, it’s different when white men call black women “bitches,” but maybe not when white women do. Or is it? Savor the flavor, my friends, as one of the NBA’s greatest guards sketches out a race/gender matrix so nuanced that only one conclusion may be safely drawn — that for Zeke, as between black men and women, “bitch” is very much on the table.
In a videotaped deposition played for the jury at fired Knicks exec Anucha Browne Sanders’ sexual harassment trial, Thomas said he drew a distinction between whites and blacks when it came to the B-word.
Asked if he was bothered by a black man calling a black female “bitch,” Thomas said: “Not as much. I’m sorry to say, I do make a distinction.
“A white male calling a black female a bitch is highly offensive,” Thomas said. “That would have violated my code of conduct.”
“Maybe I shouldn’t go there. … A white male calling a black female, that is wrong with me. I’m not taking that. I’m not accepting that. … That’s a problem for me.”
Not a problem for Thomas, if his accuser’s to be believed: sentences like “What the f— is your job? What are your job responsibilities, you f—ing ho?” Exit question one: What’s behind his racial distinction here? Righteous, historically based umbrage at the idea of whites denigrating blacks or, rather, a simple observation that whites tend to limit their use of the word “bitch” to when there’s some purposeful animus driving it? And exit question two, for my fellow bloggers: Hey, ever feel like you’re writing the same posts over and over again?
Blowback
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Wow. That’s a tangled web.
Is there a flowchart or something?
Slublog on September 18, 2007 at 7:31 PM
Isiah is just asking to be held to a lower standard.
pedestrian on September 18, 2007 at 7:34 PM
One of my biggest issues with so-called progressives is the free pass that is given to black people for the racism that is inherent in their community.
Racism is racism regardless of whether the speaker is black or white. If you are white and you hate blacks, you are a racist. If you are black and you hate whites, you are a racist. PERIOD.
I do not believe in lowered standards for minorities.
JayHaw Phrenzie on September 18, 2007 at 7:34 PM
(sigh)
Can someone link to the “Bitch/Ho Ethnic Acceptability Matrix,” please?
And not the one on Wikipedia… the REAL one.
ScottMcC on September 18, 2007 at 7:35 PM
It’s called socially encouraged racism.
doriangrey on September 18, 2007 at 7:37 PM
I wonder if there’s any truth the rumor that Thomas’ next line of defense is, “At least I didn’t kill her. And if found not guilty, I will spend the rest of my life looking for the real harasser.”
Drew on September 18, 2007 at 7:38 PM
Zeke used to be such a stud too.
Spirit of 1776 on September 18, 2007 at 7:41 PM
It also seems to be acceptable for white women to call other white women that derogatory word.I have always had a strictly canine usage policy myself.
bbz123 on September 18, 2007 at 7:45 PM
News flash: It is different when black people called black people Nigers….
/sarcasm
Tim Burton on September 18, 2007 at 7:45 PM
what’s weird is that conservatives tend to get more outraged over this then racism that actually matters.
crr6 on September 18, 2007 at 7:49 PM
Isiah Thomas is a bitch.
RightWinged on September 18, 2007 at 7:49 PM
This should be the stupid Tuesday clip.
Texyank on September 18, 2007 at 7:50 PM
Just further fuel for my theory that blacks in America are the most racist demographic on earth. And no, I’m not joking. I’ve spent my entire life watching this “nuance” develop. Have I seen white racism? Sure. I’ve seen and heard plenty of racist action and talk, but by far the vast majority was perpetrated by blacks. Job discrimination, ostracization from social groups, violent attacks motivated by race hate, racially offensive verbal abuse, you name it. Does this mean I believe all blacks, or even a majority of them, are racist? No. But no group, at least in this country, has a higher population of race centric, race hating, violence prone, epithet-spewing xenophobes.
peski on September 18, 2007 at 7:52 PM
It’s a bitch that as a Knicks fan I have to suffer through such lousy coaching.
He must have photos of James Dolan somewhere.
JammieWearingFool on September 18, 2007 at 7:57 PM
Huh?
JammieWearingFool on September 18, 2007 at 8:05 PM
Noooooooooooooooo! Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars were a couple of my heroes growing up. Noooooooooooooo!
BadgerHawk on September 18, 2007 at 8:06 PM
It is possible to hate people for the content of their character, completely ignoring the color of their skin.
Tanya on September 18, 2007 at 8:14 PM
As a Knicks fan I don’t mind watching Dolan and Isiah twist in the wind on this. Maybe Daddy Dolan will finally take the team away from his inept son.
dedalus on September 18, 2007 at 8:17 PM
.
I’m more aware of race now than at any time in the past 35 years including all of school….It is kept alive by some and that’s sad. Someone must be getting something out of it to keep it alive….I wonder who…..?
.
Altho the la raza’s and MeCHa’s are a CLOSE second rounding the turn.
shooter on September 18, 2007 at 8:18 PM
Sad.
csdeven on September 18, 2007 at 8:19 PM
Oh Isiah!
freebird on September 18, 2007 at 8:19 PM
why am i reminded of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxGfGBfObU
lorien1973 on September 18, 2007 at 8:20 PM
Bottom line.
And his mom didn’t know how to spell ‘Isaiah.’
baldilocks on September 18, 2007 at 8:21 PM
Isiah Thomas is perhaps the most outstanding example of the Peter Principle in the past twenty years. A superstar player in the NBA who led his team to two championships, in his post playing career he is noted as one of the worst general managers in the history of sports.
Here’s my exit question: most embarrassing post playing career by a star athlete–Isiah Thomas or Maury Wills? (Don’t give me O.J.–that’s a pathetic post playing career, not an embarrassing one.)
radjah shelduck on September 18, 2007 at 8:22 PM
Yep. It’s white guilt, for the most part, that allows this to go on. And it’s very misplaced guilt, at that, as Isiah clearly explains.
But I don’t understand why anyone acts surprised by Isiah saying what we all have known for a long time. Are they just surprised that he said it out loud?
progressoverpeace on September 18, 2007 at 8:23 PM
Do Thomas, and most other blacks, want a different standard for blacks? Low expectations? Well… OK, if they insist.
If not, they should say something.
jaime on September 18, 2007 at 8:31 PM
I guess playing for the Pistons was probably a great fit for Isiah back in the day. With Coleman Young as mayor (may he rot in hell), whites sensed they were not wanted in the city and fled the city in droves during the 80′s, my mother’s family included. I tried to find Debbie Schlussel’s column on the subject.
At last count, the city of 2 million was down to about 900,000, and quite the Democratic urban paradise it is. Detroit and Isaih deserved each other.
Canadian Infidel on September 18, 2007 at 8:31 PM
Hi Radjah,
I was going to say Straw, Gooden, or Steve Howe but I guess you’d file them under pathetic. I’ll have to go with Mark Gastineau.
dedalus on September 18, 2007 at 8:33 PM
Oh, and, anyone remember his comments re: Larry Bird years ago? So do I. Remember the outrage from the “black community”? Me neither. You can put on a suit and a tie and ride a Beemer, but at the end of the day, you am wut you am…
JWS on September 18, 2007 at 8:34 PM
All racism matters. If any community wants to end racism, get their own house in order, first.
You can’t have it both ways and expect any credibility.
JayHaw Phrenzie on September 18, 2007 at 8:36 PM
jaime on September 18, 2007 at 8:31 PM
Kind of reminds you of all those “moderate” muslims, doesn’t it? You know, how they wail about the tiny minority making them all look bad? The roar from the “black community” on this will be deafening!…Wait for it….Here it comes…….No really……….
JWS on September 18, 2007 at 8:38 PM
Exactly right. People demanding “special but equal” treatment is becoming tedious.
jaime on September 18, 2007 at 8:54 PM
LOL!
You’d think Isiah would have a little more respect, after hiding behind Laimbeer(whitey himself) all those years.
thebriand on September 18, 2007 at 8:58 PM
What’s even weirder is a lefty troll who doesn’t know the difference between “then” and “than”, but thinks she knows enough about conservatives to make broad generalizations about our attitudes on race.
Jaibones on September 18, 2007 at 9:04 PM
Now, that’s a conservative viewpoint on race that I agree with. Hey, how about lowered standards for Christians, Jay? Can I get some slack?
Jaibones on September 18, 2007 at 9:06 PM
Yeah, it is different when Black people wear ridiculous looking hats too. If white guys wore some of the silly hats I’ve seen on black guys they’d be laughed out of town.
TheSitRep on September 18, 2007 at 9:16 PM
jaime on September 18, 2007 at 8:54 PM
It’s beyond tedious. blacks HATE Whites. Period. Full stop. Anyone who doubts this is some mid-western hayseed or some liberal who has never had to live anywhere remotely near them or work with them. If you do, be ready to “black it up” or guess what?-you’re another un-hip nerd. Whatever. And I speak from experience.
JWS on September 18, 2007 at 9:18 PM
Wait a minute, isn’t this the guy who gave and accepted kisses from Magic Johnson in public at games when their teams played each other? Musta gotten some disease from Magic that’s infected his brain.
Capone died from something like that, right?
ScottG on September 18, 2007 at 9:25 PM
It has nuttin ta do wit wacism, tits cultural thang homey
Kini on September 18, 2007 at 9:32 PM
Yes. We hate you all. My sister hates whites so much that she married one. ::::rolls eyes:::
“Isiah” proves that idiocy is an equal-opportunity affliction–and it is proven ad infinitum by others of all races; one of the constants in the universe.
baldilocks on September 18, 2007 at 9:35 PM
The standard of No Standard. It’s whatever he wants it to be. Irrationality polished to a high gloss.
Big freakin’ surprise: another semi-literate millionaire athlete spewing utter nonsense thinly disguised as complete sentences. Next he’ll say it’s part of black culture to call women names. Stupidity as performance art.
If a Klansman said this it’s blatant racism but if a black basketball player says it, ohhh ahhh, I’m supposed to take it seriously? Puh-leez.
Shut the fudge up Thomas. You couldn’t argue your way out of a wet paper sack. Bitch.
Thomas the Wraith on September 18, 2007 at 9:42 PM
Yes. We hate you all. My sister hates whites so much that she married one. ::::rolls eyes:::
Good for her
“Isiah” proves that idiocy is an equal-opportunity affliction–and it is proven ad infinitum by others of all races; one of the constants in the universe.
baldilocks on September 18, 2007 at 9:35 PM
It’s just “idiocy”? Why not racism, as you guys yell constantly, about anything, all the while quoting marty king every step of the way (it is HILARIOUS how you never see the how ironic the whole mlk thing has become). Where is your outrage, evident anywhere else, in this case? You kind of proved my whole point…
JWS on September 18, 2007 at 9:44 PM
I should know better than to comment on race so I will keep this succinct.
Yes, black people have a complicated lexicon which is race specific. Different words for different people.
Bill C on September 18, 2007 at 9:52 PM
Lol. My wife and I went to Denver a few months ago. Walking around town, enjoying the hell out of the place. Whoops.Three negroes pull up in front of a VERY spensive hotel in a Mercedes, get out, and the FIRST thing out of their mouths is, and I quote;” you see those three White boys? Shiiiiiit (sorry, never know how to spell that), I smack they *sses down mo! Followed by much laughter and flipping the keys rudely to the doorman. Wore spensive looking suits. Me? I have nothing to do with them ever, unless I have to. It is a bad joke….
JWS on September 18, 2007 at 9:57 PM
All racism matters. If any community wants to end racism, get their own house in order, first.
You can’t have it both ways and expect any credibility.
crr6 on September 18, 2007 at 10:08 PM
Whatever, JWS.
This next part isn’t directed to you.
For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone is surprised when the PPPs (Pampered Professional Players) of any race shows how stupid most of them are. Think about how they have been enshrined as gods since high school while rarely having been encouraged to sharpen their intellectual tools–even if they possess them. Actors are similar in nature, for this reason.
I’m far more shocked when a David Robinson or a Pat Tillman emerges from that bunch.
That black PPPs’ idiocy takes on a racial flavor is merely the icing on a fully baked moron cake. Hollyweird’s moron cake has moonbat icing.
It’s the stupid, Stupid.
baldilocks on September 18, 2007 at 10:16 PM
If someone is gonna call me a bitch I better have earned it.
And I certainly do now and again, but only when I have to. :)
Bob's Kid on September 18, 2007 at 10:16 PM
Me either … same thing about actors.
darwin on September 18, 2007 at 10:22 PM
shows=show
baldilocks on September 18, 2007 at 10:23 PM
I saw the Spurs play, and when they played the national anthem Robinson stood tall, erect and proud while the rest just fidgeted and in my opinion, were disrespectful. Of course Robinson was a former naval officer and it showed. His demeanor has always been outstanding and he was/is a great role model.
darwin on September 18, 2007 at 10:26 PM
Reminds me of a conversatin I had with a student some time ago about the black kids calling each other the N word–I told him not to do it, why would he use an ugly word that white racist pigs have been using blacks for so long?
He told me that it was okay for blacks to call each other that, just not whites to call them that and that I just don’t understand.
I told him that it was evident that HE was the racist one, then.
And we’re having a huge brouhaha about the achievement gap at the school where I work. A few of the black parents have finally discovered that the black kids score lower on the standardized tests than any other ethnic group, even when other variables are taken into consideration. We’ve been fighting this for years, but they have just now come into the picture.
So two of these parents come to talk at us at our weekly faculty meeting and one of them tells us that if there’s something we don’t understand about our black students, just e-mail her and ask her and she’ll be glad to explain why black kids in particular do those things (this was an obviously well-spoken, educated, intelligent, and well-dressed woman). She knows that we didn’t grow up in the same neighborhoods and we might not understand all the backstory of black culture and behavior.
The staff got immediately icy at that slam, and she backtracked. Forget I said that, she said, and then proceded to say the same thing without the accusation that we mostly white faculty just can’t understand.
I was offended. I was raised poor, poorer than her kids are being raised, I can guarantee. And so were my kids, until I went to college and got a job that paid some decent cash. So don’t tell me that I don’t understand just because I am white.
It’s the same sort of double-standard as this–we can do and say things you can’t do and say because we’re black. We don’t have to respect you, but you have to respect us. Etc.
It so so totally beyond time to get over this sort of garbage.
Bob's Kid on September 18, 2007 at 10:28 PM
Actually, i think you meant to say “please DO mischaracterize….”
JWS, time to shutup, or better yet issue a retraction. ALL blacks hate whites. Sweet mother of overgeneralization. Backed up by your Absolute Moral Authority because you’ve experienced black on white racism. No one says it doesn’t exist. But you’re being stupid.
And good on you baldilocks for showing restraint.
TexasDan on September 18, 2007 at 10:29 PM
Isiah Thomas was a great player. But, as a person a low-life, racist scumbag.
Gatordoug on September 18, 2007 at 10:30 PM
I went to crap schools myself, but had high college entrance scores. I chalk that up to my guardians and to the fact that, as crappy as my schools were back then, actual education was taking place. From what I hear, that’s not a given anymore–at least in the public schools. Also, even though I grew up in South Central LA, I never had to dodge bullets while in transit to and from school–or sitting at my desk.
Many present-day black parents don’t realize that they have to take the bull by the horns when it comes to the education of their offspring. No one can rely on real education being imparted to their children. Not anymore.
baldilocks on September 18, 2007 at 10:41 PM
I think that the matrix will have to be multidimensional.
black male, black female, white male, white female
Bitch, biach, and ho are only a few of the terms needed to make the matrix complete.
Any more examples and we would be really getting into the trash talk.
slp on September 18, 2007 at 10:53 PM
No, it’s not, more’s the pity. And it causes my colleagues and me no end of frustration because we love ‘em all the same and we teach ‘em all the same.
At first when the parents saw the data they were fuming mad at the school for letting it happen. So our principal sat them down and showed them what we do, what sorts of resources are avaliable to students, etc. That’s when they stopped blaming us so much and began to do what needs to be done: look for answers in their community. So they set a meeting (rally, BBQ, etc.) to start off the new school year and a committe of them called every single black family in the school to invite them to it.
Well, they tried to call every single family. They found out what we teachers have known for a long time: you can’t get ‘hold of many of the parents. Some 40% of the phone numbers in school records were not valid (200-something out of 400-something). That was a huge wake-up call for them.
My son graduated from UC Berkeley in 2000 with a degree in Physics. I sat there in Zellerbach hall during his graduation ceremony watching the kids cross the stage: white, Asian, white, white, Asian, Asian, Asian, Asian, Asian, white…etc. Not a single black kid got a degree in physics that year (or at least participated in graduation). I was so dismayed! What am I, as a science teacher, doing wrong? How can I get these kids to think that science is a career choice for them? It’s wrong, wrong, wrong. I try everything, but as you said, it can’t just come from the schools.
I hope we can solve the problem, because the idea that black kids can’t possibly kick white kids’ butts academically because they’re black is NOT OKAY WITH THIS TEACHER.
Bob's Kid on September 18, 2007 at 10:57 PM
I have never heard of that incident. Sounds pretty screwed up. Looks like a bad place to live.
Assault should be punished, but tennis shoes are not a deadly weapon and I am suspicous of the all-white jury, but I do not have enough information to have much of an opinion beyond that.
Sounds like a crappy place to live and definately not my community, so I do not see the relevance to me.
My community is San Jose, CA and I treat all races equally to the best of my ability.
I encounter far more black people with a race based hatred of whites than I do whites with a race based hatred of blacks. That is simply a fact.
JayHaw Phrenzie on September 18, 2007 at 11:03 PM
Absolutely. Having black in-laws, I can tell you I have seen more racism from them than from my white friends. That’s not to mention the black/Mexican riot we had last week at the school I work at, it sure lacked the “racist” white people involved.
Tim Burton on September 18, 2007 at 11:09 PM
TexasDan on September 18, 2007 at 10:29 PM
Sorry, no retraction. Actually “stupid” would be you saying I said “ALL”. Please find my quote saying “ALL”. Reading ain’t fun-damental, is it? I stand by everything I (actually) wrote. Grew up with it, see it every day. Not advocating any sort of KKK stuff (those guys are wrong). But I reserve the right to be with whoever I want or don’t-just like all the negro only colleges, high schools, and the exhaulted congressional black caucus does. You see yourself as high and mighty while you’re being laughed at. I could not care less…
JWS on September 18, 2007 at 11:22 PM
And Larry Bird would just be another good player if he was white. Right, Isiah?
Go back to setting the Knicks back a decade.
RMSpuhler on September 18, 2007 at 11:25 PM
I like turtles
- The Cat
MirCat on September 18, 2007 at 11:29 PM
It’s not the white man keeping the black man down, it’s morons like Isiah Thomas who do it all on their own.
SoulGlo on September 18, 2007 at 11:36 PM
Cheers.
***
JWS, the idea that blacks HATE whites is just stupid. I’m not saying you are stupid. Great people can believe stupid things.
It only takes one black person to correctly refute your statement. If you can’t find one, it’s because you don’t want to.
What do you think about black Republicans? I guess you could never vote for a black Senator or congressman, since they hate you. Should there be separate facilities at townhall meetings to account for the hate?
I’m sure I’ve missed some important point about what you said. Thanks for your forthcoming corrections.
The Race Card on September 18, 2007 at 11:40 PM
Yeah, that Isiah Thomas is a real Mensa candidate…
D2Boston on September 19, 2007 at 12:38 AM
It’s like animal farm…. Some derogatory statements about women are more equal then others….
liquidflorian on September 19, 2007 at 12:40 AM
Or how about 1984 style “double-think”?
Mojave Mark on September 19, 2007 at 12:43 AM
… and the Congressional Black Caucus is not a blatantly racist organization and Affirmative Action is not racist policy and minority set-asides are not …
Nothing new, here. This double standard has been part of our law for decades and our courts have been happy to go along with the irrationality.
progressoverpeace on September 19, 2007 at 12:59 AM
Wow.
Nonfactor on September 19, 2007 at 2:30 AM
Sometimes you just have to scratch your head. There are a lot of people out there talking about equality and here is an example of someone who clearly does not believe in equality.
It gets under my skin (so to speak) when some maintain that it is acceptable for some ethnic groups to use certain words which are not pejoratives used by THEM but are highly inflammatory when used by other ethnic groups.
I would bet a large sum of money that were the shoe on the other foot there would be a great outcry about “inequality.”
drjohn on September 19, 2007 at 8:07 AM
What ever happened to politeness? What ever happened to being a gentleman or lady? I don’t call people names, I just don’t. I remember once listening to a student try to explain that Snoop calls women bitches and hoes because that shows his respect for them.
I almost called her a name – the moron. But I didn’t.
Ellen on September 19, 2007 at 8:17 AM
I personally believe….. that most US Americans are not concerned with anything that Isiah Thomas says, and such and that the US should help the Africa and the Iraq.
Thank you.
Alden Pyle on September 19, 2007 at 8:17 AM
JWS – don’t be ridiculous. It makes it hard to be taken seriously.
Great point on the key ingredient in education — students and parents who have high expectations of success.
Jaibones on September 19, 2007 at 9:28 AM
Trying to get this straight. We’ve established that it’s OK for black men to tear down black women any time and way they want. Now…is it OK for black men to tear down white women? Is it OK for white women to tear down black women? Is it OK for white men to tear down white women? Is it OK for white women to tear down black men? Is it OK for white women to tear down white men? Is it OK for black women to tear down white men? Is it OK for black women to tear down white women? Is it OK for black women to tear down each other? Is it OK for white women to tear down each other? Someone needs to publish a guide.
jeanie on September 19, 2007 at 9:46 AM
Bitch in a certain context is well known as a term of endearment. It can mean girlfriend or best friend. Whenever the context is understood between both people, the term is ok.
Bitch can also be a derogatory term in other contexts. It’s pretty obvious when someone is calling another a bitch as an insult. No rocket science involved.
This really has nothing to do with racism. And it certainly isn’t political.
flipflopper on September 19, 2007 at 10:13 AM
jeanie on September 19, 2007 at 9:46 AM
It’s simple. blacks operate on the primative, childlike “I want to have my cake and eat it too” principle: no consequences. Talk, behave, congregate any way they want, and if by some miracle they are called on it, yell racism. Explain that that’s the way it is in da ‘hood and how dare you criticize! Vote 90%+ liberal, continue to spout garbage about our racist society keeping them down, about our evil founding fathers, etc. It will never end. I have no use for any of it as my life is not enriched by following along…
JWS on September 19, 2007 at 10:14 AM
http://www.geocities.com/trump_dondadda1/ThatsRacist2.gif
ackrite55 on September 19, 2007 at 10:27 AM
JWS, you make some honest points, but I wish you’d point out what you mean when you say “blacks”. Can you offer a percentage? 99%, 78%, 50%? Just how many of all blacks are you referring to? You’ve met them all, right?
flipflopper on September 19, 2007 at 10:59 AM
Do you specify percentages every time you describe a group? I don’t think so.
Don’t act so stupid.
progressoverpeace on September 19, 2007 at 12:42 PM
flipflopper on September 19, 2007 at 10:59 AM
All? I never used the word “all”. I also never called anyone here stupid, or demanded they issue a retraction simply because I disagreed with them. That is usually a sign that you are unsure of your position…
It’s also amazing how the theme here seems to be you cannot make these kinds of generalizations-it’s not right, or fair! But…then why is it fair to say things like: blacks have made such important contributions to music; blacks are fiercely proud; blacks are great athletes; etc…What percentages are you speaking of here? ALL? How can blacks say that we need to reach out to the “black community” if we expect them to change their votes? Does that not imply that blacks are more or less uniform? And on and on it goes, never to come to an end. As long as the message soothes them-go for it. Dare say you don’t agree-out comes the “R” word. Me, I don’t care. Call me what you please.
flipflopper-when I say blacks, I mean blacks. Go take a walk around. Look and listen CAREFULLY to what is going on. Then you decide what percentage fits (remember, they vote 90%+ liberal, and that cuts across all socioeconomic conditions). Like it or not, they view themselves as a victim class. I, for one, take zero responsibility…
JWS on September 19, 2007 at 5:24 PM
One of my nephews–a ninth-grader–plans on being appointed to the USAFA. Mathematics, physics, etc. have been at least basically studied and are all on his itinerary for the next few years. He’s one of the sons of the sister and brother-in-law that I mentioned up-thread.
Aside: his first cousin–a tenth-grader–wants to be a Marine, should the Iraq War still be in existence when he’s eligible to enlist. He mentioned Iraq specifically and expressed very adult reasoning behind the decision.
Black (or any) children are only as good as the values which are put forth and continuously instilled by their guardians. I do think that many blacks have been hoodwinked by the “gifts” from the liberals (see LBJ): rights important; responsibilities, no so much. I have been blogging about this subject for four years, so I won’t put forth any particulars about this assertion here.
baldilocks on September 19, 2007 at 8:44 PM
Disclaimer: like me, his dad is a USAF NCO.
baldilocks on September 19, 2007 at 8:50 PM