Video: Cops tase moonbat at Kerry speech just to watch him squirm
posted at 9:48 pm on September 17, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Well, not exactly. Via Jay Stephenson, the video shows the cops moving in after just one question although the article Dan Riehl found suggests the guy had been at it for a bit longer than that. I wonder what, if anything, he said or did to alarm them before the clip picks up; they’re awfully quick to grab at him after he finishes speaking and for no discernible reason. From there it plays out like the UCLA incident last year — screaming, struggling, and finally pain-compliance via the taser, which typically is supposed to be used to immobilize a suspect who’s threatening the officer, not to quiet down someone who’s in custody.
As usual with these things, everyone involved comes off badly.
Update: HuffPo’s headline captures the Arianna interpretation of the incident perfectly.
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The police brought boys to do a man’s job. And they sure didn’t know how to work together. They may have been local cops, but they sure acted like security guards. If eight of those cops couldn’t get that one bird-chested boy under control faster than that without the taser, how the hell are they going to break up a bar fight? With bazookas? If a couple more of them had been the size of that black cop, no taser would not have been necessary. One guy on each arm, with one behind to sweep the legs, and 1, 2, 3, bam! hello ground, and forget about breathing for a few minutes (much less shouting). Slap the cuffs on him, and give him the choice of going through the door with the door opened or with the door closed. If he shuts up, they open the door. If he doesn’t shut up, he opens the door–with his nose. When I was a stupid lefty hanging around idiots like this on my campus, whenever this kind of sh*t went down, they always had the big boys with the flat top haircuts on duty, and people usually went pretty quietly. If you didn’t, heaven help you. Here at FU (oops, Freudian slip) they’ve got some fat broad affirmative action hire cop hectoring him, wagging her finger in his face. Sheesh.
Under the word “empowered” in the dictionary is a picture of that kid. Who does he think he is telling cops what to do? Right or wrong, that is a losing bid every time. Also, I think he was lit. Speed kills.
smellthecoffee on September 18, 2007 at 12:22 AM
In short, I’m not sure why the cops decided to put hands on him so quickly, although they may have been giving him orders he was noncompliant with before the video started.
If so, that may change things in their favour.
Yes, it looked heavy-handed, but a single video often doesn’t tell the tale. At least it’s not like there was a shortage of witnesses.
However, when the cops tried to remove him he became increasingly noncompliant, agitated, and bordering on combative. At that point the TASER became an appropriate use of force option.
I’m not sure the policing leading up to this point was outstanding, but equally, I’m not sure the young man was wanting to be calmed down verbally.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 12:22 AM
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 12:15 AM
It’s funny but I get the distinct impression that you yourself are quite young indeed.
Nitey nite.
Buy Danish on September 18, 2007 at 12:23 AM
“Don’t taser me Bro, Don’t taser me!”
zakkazakkazakka
“Aaaieeee! Help Me! Help Me!”
High comedy. I actually felt a smidge sorry for Kerry having to put up with that during his speech. But that feeling went away quickly.
BelchSpeak on September 18, 2007 at 12:25 AM
Since this happened at my alma mater, I figured I better dig out what I could find.
First of all, here’s an account from the local paper, The Gainesville Sun, with some comments from people who were there. The article states:
Here’s an account from the student paper, The Florida Alligator (still liberal after all these years!).
Here’s a link to the Gainesville Police Dept. Taser Proposal (pdf doc) which states:
I don’t know what kind of jurisdiction, if any, the GPD has over the University Police Dept.
Here’s the Florida Statute, if you want to read that.
It appears the student was deliberately disruptive and probably wanted to invoke arrest martyrdom. It also appears to me that the use of a taser was not warranted. It goes without saying (although Prof B says it so eloquently) that Kerry showed he’s unfit for command of a lecture hall, much less a nation.
I did notice in the pictures that at least one of the cops is clearly a woman. The student looks like he’s about a head taller than three of the cops. Is this a case of PC run amok? With a woman cop(s) being unable to physically restrain a big guy?
If I hear anything more, I’ll be back.
INC on September 18, 2007 at 12:25 AM
Exactly.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 12:26 AM
Regarding the pics of the female cops, I was referring to the photos and not the video.
INC on September 18, 2007 at 12:27 AM
Well, there is a senator in the room (no matter how one may feel about him personally) and the guy gets out of line and seems pretty irrational. In that situation, he’s got to be removed, just in case. The police were incompetent but a good rule of thumb is don’t resist the police and you won’t get tased.
SouthernDem on September 18, 2007 at 12:31 AM
Kerry: “Unfortunately he can’t come up here and swear me in as president.”
Oh YES HE CAN senator. He’ll be with you shortly.
Kerry was and is an unbelievable moron.
Mojave Mark on September 18, 2007 at 12:33 AM
Warmed the kid’s heart, too.
Better not talk like that around your fellow Dems. They’ll probably tase you.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 12:33 AM
Thanks for the Kos link. I you go there, take a sec to vote on a poll they have up as to whether the police action was excessive or not. heh.
smellthecoffee on September 18, 2007 at 12:35 AM
I made a comment at 12:25 AM. My monitor reads that its awaiting moderation. Is this new?
INC on September 18, 2007 at 12:36 AM
Heh. Actually, I think my mom will get a pretty good laugh out of it.
SouthernDem on September 18, 2007 at 12:37 AM
Hell, even the moonbats in DC on Saturday knew to lay down and not resist. Mostly.
SouthernDem on September 18, 2007 at 12:39 AM
I love it when a loudmouth whiny young college punk gets tasered. It really makes my day.
nottakingsides on September 18, 2007 at 12:40 AM
That’s pretty sad then… I worked in a club on weekends for a number of years, am not a big guy, and on plenty of occasions restrained and walked out guys 50 even 100 pounds heavier than me. I had no training, other than watching some of the other guys lock the arms up of a few people. I can’t believe cops don’t get substantially more training than that. I still think these look like campus cops or security, they’re like grabbing at him very much in sissy ways.
I’ve got cops in my family (by marriage) and my grandfather spent his career in the FBI (after being a Marine). Of course my grandfather is old school, and back then… well, you didn’t have to be so “nice” when you showed up at someone’s door, and you got away with “not being nice”. But the cop in the family I guess is partly where I gauge my opinion, and maybe that’s my problem. Dude knows a variety of different martial arts and teaches classes to the other cops… maybe I’m incorrectly assuming that most cops have a fraction of that knowledge. I just know these cops look pathetic from this video. The resisting should have been stopped as soon as it started.
RightWinged on September 18, 2007 at 12:41 AM
Granted it is funny. . . but it is appalling too.
They NEVER asked that guy to leave. . . in the other clip it shows him speaking and then all of a sudden he says, ‘OK thanks for cutting my mic’ They grabbed him immediately. I never heard them say you are under arrest. I never heard them explain why he was being grabbed. I heard him ask why he was being arrested. I heard the girl say ’stop resisting’, but I believe he was entitled to an answer to his question ‘why am I under arrest’.
I heard him say ‘if you let me go I’ll leave’. I heard him say ‘help’. All Monty Python jokes aside which I love, when you say ‘help’, you are generally not a threat.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 12:41 AM
Kerry says something about swearing in the video. If this punk was swearing at Kerry, that would be reason enough to have him ejected from the audience. This video, remember, was edited by someone sympathetic to the nutroots. We are not shown what precipitated the removal. I suspect it was swearing at a senator, then the guards were called in, he refused to leave, so they grabbed him, he fought back, so they had to escalate the use of force.
jihadwatcher on September 18, 2007 at 12:41 AM
That cat actually buys the men in black thing to the roots. You reallize he was saying that Kerry was part of the conspiracy to get Bush in the Whitehouse. And actually thinks the ‘government’ is trying to kill him.
- The Cat
MirCat on September 18, 2007 at 12:43 AM
The great irony is that by making a complete ass of himself and resisting long enough to make the cops use force (and obviously thanks to the idiocy of the Koppers, who somehow couldn’t just pick the kid up and carry his ass out), he got himself tased (tazed?) … and thus validated all of his own kooky conspiracy nuttiness.
He’ll now spend the next ten years telling frightened schoolchildren and homeless people about the day he was electrocuted by the SuperSecret Ninja Police.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 12:46 AM
Shoot the little idiot again for being such a damn baby.
Texyank on September 18, 2007 at 12:48 AM
I went to UF (years ago) and in my comment that is still in limbo somewhere, I linked to some local news along with the Gainesville Police Dept. policy and the Florida Statutes regarding tasers. My guess is that the use wasn’t warranted. I think that the disparity of size between the first small cops with the big guy they were tackling may have led to some panic and inappropriate use. I wonder if this is a result of PC gone amok.
These were campus cops according to the local paper. The UPD (University Police) chief said there would be an investigation. I do not know the working relationship with the GPD (Gainesville Police).
INC on September 18, 2007 at 12:50 AM
That was in University Auditorium, so it would have been UFPD (UF cops), not Gainesville, PD.
This is the same UFPD that demanded that a student provide them with a DNA sample after he wrote a short fictional story on his blog in which a character murdered two people.
Mark Jaquith on September 18, 2007 at 12:56 AM
If you’re really lit, or psycho, it doesn’t matter what you say, they aren’t listening. Looking at that former hallmate kos-post (linked above), I got the distinct impression that the hallmate saw him as a little bit around the bend. His thought processes seemed a little disjointed, although, it must be remembered, he is a liberal. In a way, resisting arrest the way he did would probably strike most cops as signifying that he was not fully with it, given that we all know how that ends. And cops will usually make an immediate example of anyone who tries to cross them. Almost any time I’ve ever seen someone get arrested while resisting, butt kicking is involved. Cops definitely don’t want people to think they can get away with that.
smellthecoffee on September 18, 2007 at 12:59 AM
Michelle has an email from a UF student there today who gives some background to what happened before the videos started rolling.
INC on September 18, 2007 at 1:03 AM
He was not tazed. He was “drive stunned”, which is a secondary use for a tazer. It doubles as a stun gun. That is, if in fact a tazer was used, and not a stun gun. Either way, he was drive stunned and not shot with tazer probes.
He was resisting arrest (arrest for what exactly, I do not know. as usual, not enough video to tell the whole story. definitely resisting/delaying/obstructing a peace officer in the clip though).
Oh. Cops cramp your anarchist style? Got arrested one or more times in the past? Scofflaw? Texas sized scrote? What have the police ever done to you? Envious? Your troll-fu is weak.
SilverStar830 on September 18, 2007 at 1:03 AM
Whatever happened to: Sir you have taken all of the time you need, please sit down.
OK
right2bright on September 18, 2007 at 1:03 AM
I have no idea what your on-duty police experience is, but that couldn’t further from reality. Too much TV maybe?
SilverStar830 on September 18, 2007 at 1:05 AM
Going limp is one thing – but this guy was clearly violent. They did seem to grab at him before asking him to leave (not that that would have made a difference).
Frankly this sort of thing is becoming so common, I believe it is a documented tactic being employed in some sort of radical resistance protocol.
The police should employ humiliation more frequently than the tazer. Each officer grabbing a limb and bodily removing him. They rely too heavily on handcuffs and the tazer.
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:05 AM
It’s getting better, Randy, I’d say there are more well-trained officers than ever.
But the bulk of these cops didn’t look terribly so, did they?
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:05 AM
For the third time on this thread:
Exactly.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:06 AM
Oh. That’s what he meant.
I thought he meant men in uniform made him feel randy and amorous.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 1:06 AM
As for why he was arrested… When the POLICE say get out you get out. They do not need a reason. Especially when other people are present – they have to consider the safety of the other people.
They do not have the authority to END an assembly, but they can prune trouble makers.
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:08 AM
I have no idea what your on-duty police experience is, but that couldn’t further from reality. Too much TV maybe?
SilverStar830 on September 18, 2007 at 1:05 AM
Ditto. (I had to change my word. It was getting old.)
Another common one is, “I can’t breath.” I’m sure it often feels true. But they can breath.
What it usually means is give me a bit of space so I can get at you, hurt you, and if possible take your gun.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:09 AM
Thanks, INC. That made the whole thing a lot more clear. Everybody should check Michelle’s main site and read that. It explains pretty much everything.
If that letter is accurate, the kid’s lucky he wasn’t shot. If he would have reached in his pockets a little too quickly, he might have been.
Now please let’s get back to the important issue here: has anybody made a YouTube spoof yet? A good re-mix?
Let’s focus, people.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 1:10 AM
You could definitely be correct. But I think libertytexan would have used ‘Dial 911 and make a cop come’ if he was the randy amorous uniform lover type.
SilverStar830 on September 18, 2007 at 1:11 AM
Michelle did get one thing very, very wrong:
No, no, no. That was the funniest part.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 1:11 AM
When I was about 21 years old, I was the Asst. Manager at a Domino’s Pizza. One night, some unshaven guy with an unkempt appearance and wild eyes started pulling on the door and screaming at us.
I got nervous and called the police. Two cars pulled up and four officers got out. Without even talking to the guy, one of the cops fired a taser into the guy. The guy fell down and was immediattely subdued.
In spite of this, the cop that fired the taser handed the control box or battery (whatever the end that the cop holds onto) to each of the other cops there and eaqch one pressed a button which apparantly shot electricity through the guy again as I could see him convulsing each time they pressed the button.
I was shocked. I was staring through the window at them, probably with my mouth wide open. One of them sort of shrugged at me, then they threw the guy into the back of one of the units and they all drove off.
For some reason, this story reminded me of that night.
JayHaw Phrenzie on September 18, 2007 at 1:12 AM
Am I right in guessing that’s a very popular (and very old) joke amongst cops?
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 1:13 AM
Yeah, libertytexan spent a little too much time on the Japanese restaurant thread.
I think these cops knew who this guy was, were tired of him, and just skipped to the final act.
Hopefully this video will educate a new generation about what the police are for.
pedestrian on September 18, 2007 at 1:13 AM
Also, may I point out that the police officer’s behaviour was reminiscent of Ghengis Khan (Jenjus Khan).
JayHaw Phrenzie on September 18, 2007 at 1:13 AM
Again… I have no idea what your on-duty police experience is, but that couldn’t further from reality as well.
So many street lawyers and Peace Officer Policy and Rights experts on the interweb, yet so little actual fact.
SilverStar830 on September 18, 2007 at 1:14 AM
Old bumpersticker, probably derived from an old joke. Sometimes used with fireman instead of cop.
SilverStar830 on September 18, 2007 at 1:15 AM
Silver Star, when I’m saying ‘help’ it means I’m in a heap of trouble and I can not survive without any assistance. Actually, I can’t imagine ever saying ‘help’ but that’s me and my rugged individualism.
I’m certain that I would never attack someone and yell ‘help’. Generally it is the person who is getting attacked who both needs and asks for help. I don’t know what movies you are referring to other than possibly Mars Attacks ‘We come in peace’ right before they blast you.
They never asked him to leave, they never gave him any explanation. They snuck up behind him, cut his mic and grabbed him. He didn’t break any law.
He said that he would leave if they let him go before they tased him. The only time they indicated he was under arrest was when he had 6 guys on him threatening to tase him and the stupid girl was saying ’stop resisting’.
Of course she knew to say ’stop resisting’, but did not know how to say ‘you are under arrest, anything you say can and will be used against you. . . ‘
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:16 AM
Thanks for that link INC. More suggestion that this guy’s elevator wasn’t stopping at all floors.
A couple of the talk-backs to that Gainesville Sun article:
smellthecoffee on September 18, 2007 at 1:16 AM
This shows how little you understand about the use of force.
There is no way in hell a trained person would take their hands off someone once the decision had been made to use force without controlling the other person.
Once the other person is controlled, then you talk.
With all due respect and no malice, you’re clueless.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:18 AM
Apparently, from eyewitnesses, this nut job cut the line to get at a microphone.
I’m bitterly disappointed that the campus police were so unprofessional as to only taser him twice.
How many think this kid thought his activation code was “Boo”?
opusrex on September 18, 2007 at 1:19 AM
‘I can’t breathe’ is never true because if you can’t breathe, you can’t talk. I learned that from wrestling. . . it isn’t the same as ‘help’.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:20 AM
And you don’t Mirandize someone and read them their rights before they’ve been controlled. First you gain control of the suspect.
If you don’t know what you’re talking about will you just propose to Buy Danish we can all come to your wedding?
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:20 AM
These are tactics that radicals use. It is all scripted. It is then no wonder that the Police react the way they do. They see it all of the time. We are just unaware.
The crowd and the Police react in the same way every time. This is part of the tactic’s usefulness.
What we need to wonder is what goes through the mind of such people. These are like terrorist attacks. They never accomplish much more than a disturbing scene and chaos.
They can always count on the same results, and a misunderstanding that these people go into the room expecting to get tazered. In fact their mission would not be completed with out it.
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:22 AM
with all due respect, they let go of him 3 times.
I hope you don’t ever say anything that a cop disagrees with. I would love to represent this kid in a court of law. I’d win every time. . . and this clueless guy would take every penny you have.
no malice intended of course.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:22 AM
Yeah, that’s why I was (honestly) asking if they were campus cops, because I was shocked at how untrained they seemed to be. I’m watching it going “if this were in the club I worked at, I’d have done XYZ and if he was really wild, 1 or 2 other guys would have helped grab his legs and if we thought he’d fight once we tossed him, we’d send someone out on to the street to look for a cop. what are these people doing!?
Anyway, the funniest part is, many of us are unsettled with a Truther being tossed around… Lol. In most cases I say I’d have a hard time not getting myself locked up for what I’d do if I encountered a crew of Truthers at a 9/11 anniversary event… but this seems pretty retarded. His just a douchey kid, and unless we missed something, he should have been asked to leave on his own and if they were going to restrain him, they should have just restrained him… looks like they were afraid to or something, knowing they’d be on YouTube maybe?
RightWinged on September 18, 2007 at 1:23 AM
Christoph, what’s with the name calling? your arguments not strong enough?
They never even told him to leave, or that he was under arrest though he asked repeatedly.
PLEASE call me another name. It makes your argument weaker and weaker.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:23 AM
Watch the video again. He used force to escape once. They did not let go of him three times.
ThackerAgency, I have a feeling SilverStar830 knows what he’s talking about. And you don’t.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:26 AM
Are you making up facts out of whole cloth (again)? What name did I call you?
A direct quotation please.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:27 AM
Christoph, I have a feeling that lawyers across the country are begging to sue the Football And Basketball national champs
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:28 AM
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:28 AM
I have no idea what that means, but I don’t take it to be complimentary
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:28 AM
Did you read the eyewitness e-mail at Malkin’s site?
According to that e-mail, it didn’t exactly happen like that:
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 1:29 AM
Oh, you’re right; I did call you clueless.
In this case, I stand by it.
First, I demonstrated that you are clueless. Then I used the word to describe you. I can live with that.
If you’d start getting a clue, I’d be glad to take another look at that.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:29 AM
It means you’re both rather clueless. And was also designed to be a good-natured rib at both of you. If you take it that way, great. If you take it otherwise, fine.
It was meant as above.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:30 AM
That was beautiful, can’t wait for his Emmy speech.
mesablue on September 18, 2007 at 1:31 AM
nice, no argument at all there. . . you’re getting better at debating Christoph
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:31 AM
Sorry, but I live in New York. The “Law” and “Procedure” still tend to give way to common sense.
Frankly I would have liked it if the cops let him go on until the crowd turned on him (or we got a sound bite from Kerry). However, that is exactly why they are there, crowd control.
Clearly from the video, he had been “speaking” for a long time. Unless it takes four cops to hand the microphone around. How long is long enough?
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:32 AM
That’s rather what I suspected. And the point I made above. Arguably, the cops should have used force more decisively (I’m not saying more force, just less hesitantly) sooner.
But yes. A video often does not tell the whole tale. By definition, it can’t tell what happened before it.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:32 AM
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 1:29 AM
If you thought he might have a gun or bomb, why let him speak at the microphone?
So his ‘crime’ was cutting in line? You think they could have told him that?
Like I said, I don’t agree with this guy at all. But the ‘police’ were wrong here. They should be held accountable.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:33 AM
I’m not really debating this with you, ThackerAgency. I know more about it than you. I don’t have anything to learn from you here; the reverse, if anything.
My criticism of the police, if the eyewitness alluded to above is telling the truth, is now limited to the training they received on use of force and their hesitation before applying it effectively… but not to TASERing the guy.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:34 AM
Heck, even I learned that much just from watching “Cops.”
It looks kind of simple. Don’t want a whuppin? Be nice, calm, and keep your hands visible.
Cops decide to cuff you? Turn around or get on your knees or lay down or whatever they tell you, and let them do their thing. Don’t tense up, don’t wiggle. Just chill.
Once you’re cuffed, you can sit on the curb and chat and explain your version, and if you’re polite, the worst that’ll happen is a car ride downtown (if “Cops” is accurate, you’ll also probably be shirtless and wearing cut-off jeans at that point. And you’ll have tattoos and a scraggly beard. But I digress.)
I think the truth is that in most cases, you gotta beg to be tased. I’ll bet it involves a pain in the ass amount of paperwork for the cops.
Which prevents them from getting to their donuts.
Professor Blather on September 18, 2007 at 1:35 AM
Well put. And humorously too.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:37 AM
Here again, HE DID NOT BREAK A LAW! What law did he break o wise Christoph?
Why didn’t they ask him to leave while he was speaking instead of cut his mic?
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:37 AM
Oh so now he rushed the microphone. Keeps getting better. Still looks like the cops stood around deciding what to do. More than enough consideration.
However, if cops were in pursuit, did he come from the outside? Or was he sitting further back with cohorts, and the police observed him preparing for his attack? (taking his coat off, revealing a wacko shirt, leaving his belongings in the chair).
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:38 AM
what reason did they have to ‘cuff’ him? cutting in line? I never heard them ask him to leave.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:38 AM
Look at the insignia on the security guards. That isn’t campus security — those are enforcers for Skull and Bones. I bet he was pulled out of there, thrown in a black helicopter and whisked off to the Tomb in New Haven. We’ll never see him again.
Nosferightu on September 18, 2007 at 1:38 AM
agrippa, he said he was listening to Kerry for 2 hours
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:39 AM
The cop on his right arm knew what he was doing. The two cops initially just guided him along. He started squirming away and the cop on his right locked his arm, but the girl cop on his left let him get loose. Once that happended, he was out of their control and had to be restrained.
I couldn’t hear what they said because Kerry was talking, but they clearly said something to him after the mic went dead before they made contact with him.
pedestrian on September 18, 2007 at 1:39 AM
I heard him very clearly, but I did not hear the police say anything but ‘tase him’, and ’stop resisting’
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:40 AM
Clueful (is that a word?).
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:43 AM
Now that would be a good excuse to run OUT of the room.
The question remains, did he rush the microphone? That in itself seems no big deal since it was “last call” for questions. However, he must have done something odd for the police to be in “pursuit”.
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:43 AM
He asked repeatedly, what is going on? Why are you grabbing me? Am I being arrested?
Why could I hear him but not the police?
Christoph, did you see the video from the OTHER angle? of his entire statement? Most of which was in favor of Kerry?
What is it that makes you feel superior Christoph? That I have not understood.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:45 AM
’stop resisting’
That would have been the key. Look, you can take whatever namby-pamby positions you want here, but the reality is those cops on him didn’t look all hardcore, and they all, to a person, applied the force. Because they have to do their jobs and aren’t going to stop in the middle of it to read them their rights or whatever other ludicrous suggestions you actually made on this thread.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:46 AM
agrippa, there could have been. I’m not arguing that this guy was not wacko because he clearly was. I’m arguing that he didn’t break a law.
But if they were concerned about him ‘rushing the microphone’ they should have stopped him from speaking IMMEDIATELY if they considered him a threat. They didn’t, nobody asked him to leave after he ‘rushed the mic’
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:46 AM
Because I know a lot about the application of force including correct strategery behind it and you don’t.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:46 AM
So the police should have SCREAMED “because you are being a jerk”, or “that book in your hand is past due at the library”.
We could clearly hear the moron because he was yelling. The cops, in an effort to calm down an increasingly hysterical clown, used “indoor voice”.
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:47 AM
They weren’t analyzing his political position, numbnuts. Gee.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:47 AM
christoph, they said ’stop resisting’ AFTER they were on top of him with 5 guys. AFTER he asked them what they were doing without getting a response. AFTER he told them he wanted to hear the answer to his question. AFTER he said he would leave if they let him go. BEFORE I heard any of them say ‘it is time for you to go’.
I’d say the first word of a cop interested in maintaining peace shouldn’t be ’stop resisting’. Here again, I’d love to take up this case in court.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:49 AM
While I disagree that 6+ cops had to taser a kid, Blather’s was the best comment so far:
Free Constitution on September 18, 2007 at 1:50 AM
I doubt that. . . of course you know me so well don’t you?
Saying ‘I can’t breathe’ is EXACTLY like saying ‘help’.
GENIUS
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:50 AM
They cut his mic’. Police moved in. This is communication. Did they ask him to leave? Hard to tell from the video, but a leap of logic to assume they did not say “please sir, we are asking you to leave”.
Perhaps it is easier for YOU to imagine they said “make a move punk, and we’ll tazer you”.
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:51 AM
Going with the theme and the fact that I know more than you on this unfortunate subject, hesitation, particularly if people are not very well trained and I would say that it was true for some of these officers, happens a lot when people rush anything.
It takes a while to respond barring good training or an especially adept person. The fact the police didn’t react as quickly as they should have doesn’t mean they shouldn’t react when a decision is made to do so.
I’m tired of having this conversation with you. You’re not getting it and you’re unlikely to tonight. I know you disagree. I don’t care. You’re totally wrong.
I’m not going to “convince you”. If you’d been through police or military training, maybe. You obviously haven’t.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:53 AM
agrippa, was it an ‘indoor taser’ too? I hope you guys are never in this situation with authority figures disagreeing with you. Then again, this youtube thing is making me reconsider a career in law. If people think cops doing this is OK to people who are NOT a threat, I’ll be suing a precinct near you.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:53 AM
You convinced me Christoph
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:54 AM
…and 3 times he did not peacefully exit the room.
You’re basing all your assumptions on a snippet of video and your emotions, after viewing said video snippet, and none of it on actual knowledge. Suffice it to say, you’d be laughed out of a courtroom if you tried to use any one or more of your emotional arguments here in a court of law. The only penny you’d be taking out of the courtroom is the one in your shoe.
SilverStar830 on September 18, 2007 at 1:54 AM
There is no single magic word — including ‘help’ — that a suspect can say that will force the police to stop taking actions to control the suspect.
To believe there is or should be is just insanity. You prove you don’t know what you’re talking about more with every comment.
Goodnight.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:55 AM
I love how you white guys have to IMAGINE being in this position.
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 1:55 AM
Thanks.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 1:55 AM
agrippa, those ‘hints’ didn’t tell him he broke a law.
If a citizen doesn’t break a law, he shouldn’t be concerned with being arrested and tased. They never told him that he needed to go. He didn’t seem to understand what was going on AFTER the police GRABBED him.
They cut his mic after he went on and on. They didn’t even say to ’shut up’ before they cut his mic. Nobody in the audience did. I would expect this in a facist state, and I’d say how horrible it was.
I don’t expect it in America unless the guy is an immediate threat. Being a ‘jerk’ isn’t a crime. If it were, all of congress would be arrested.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:57 AM
I hope all of you guys always say that which police want to hear. If I say ‘help’, I hope that police are willing to help me. Otherwise, I want my tax dollars back to pay a bodyguard.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 1:59 AM
and agrippa, I KNOW a lot of white people who have been in this situation. The police did not help the situation here. The police did nothing ‘good’ here.
ThackerAgency on September 18, 2007 at 2:00 AM
I apologize for in any way equating Buy Danish with you. I find her arguments a bit simplistic and I find she often misses the point… and completely misunderstands what I say.
You do understand what I say, you’re just nuts.
Christoph on September 18, 2007 at 2:00 AM
I know one thing for sure. Somebody in that room was frightened by this guy, not the Police. He got worse by the minute, and only his confederates can know what is agenda was.
He was not just some overly emotional guy who doesn’t like to be touched. He was there on a mission, manifesto in hand.
Debating the legal nuance of the event is besides the point.
Agrippa2k on September 18, 2007 at 2:00 AM
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