The Leftist elites that run Mexico use emigration as a saftey valve, getting rid of the people most likely to challenge them, and as a way of propping up their economy by siphoning off America.

Nothing will ever really change down there. All that ever happens is that one group takes over and runs the country into the ground, just like the other. There are some differences in degree, not in kind, between miitary and socialist dictatorships. Socialists tend to be better at convinving people they’re being oppressed and exploited ‘For their own good(TM)’ and worse at actually running the country (propaganda, not government, is the Leftist specialty).

We should be opening up our country to Europeans fleeing the hellhole that the EU is turning into. They much of our culture and values, many already speak (or are) English, have skills, and are hard working. They’re pratically pre-intergrated.

Most South Americans are like muslims. They want the lifestyle, money, and benefits of our way of life, but not the things that make it possible.

Hard work? Honesty? Honoring a contract? Transparent government? Merit-based rewards? Self-improvement? Pratical eduacation? Those are for gringos/kafirs/honkey. Just give me your money, because you’ve been ‘oppressing’ my people for centuries.

This will be something worth keeping an eye on.

“Blogging for Patterico, DRJ thinks the coordinated serial blasts suggest Al-Qaeda training.”

Oh, but let us embrace open borders. That’ll fix the problem.

“We’re walking a diplomatic and policy tightrope here: it is very much in our interest to have Mexico become stable, prosperous, and orderly, like a southern Canada with better food.”

All I gotta say is, “good fences make good neighbors.”

Theworldisnotenough on September 13, 2007 at 1:42 AM for President.

Multiple Explosions on Mexican pipeline. Claims of responsibility by leftists discounted, leaving no credible claims. Now who likes to do terror without taking credit, hmmm ? Only one little ‘ole Religion of Peace, that is. Now, what were the effects…

I do think this is a question that we ought to try to answer as part of the broader border-security debate, because even with a border as secure as we can reasonably make it, it’s in the US’s interest to see Mexico become more like Chile and less like Venezuela, or less like Beirut.

Maybe it’s that premise you disagree with, and you think that it doesn’t matter a bit what happens in Mexico.

*a secretive plan known only by its acronym, SD-DUMP.

see-dubya on September 13, 2007 at 12:22 AM

your question assumes alot. Is Mexico like Beirut? Is it going to look like Beirut anytime soon? That is my problem with the way you pose the question. We need better relations with Mexico. When they stop holding Elvira out to be some hero then we can at least start to talk. The amnesty should be negotiated between our country and theirs. Heh. Wouldn’t that be a spectacle!

Is it in our interest to see a prosperous Mexico? Yes. Do we do it through coddling and coercing? No. That would leave the old corrupt power structure in place. What we know about that approach is that it will more deeply embed corruption, government regulations always do…. We can see it our own politicians not tackling tough issues frankly, (Soc Sec) look at what we had to start with, the Mexican George Washington has yet to appear. Mexico without political reform will always be Mexico. They need a reason to change that they can’t get rid off, their own countrymen will suffice. They’ll need jobs and we’ll need goods produced. If we started to rebuild our textile/manufacturing industry in Mexico to specifically compete with the Chinese we have won and Mexicans have won.

But that is a problem, Mexicans politicians want to win instead of the people winning. The old guard wants to stay in power. A educated middle class based on manufacturing (just like the U.S. post WWII) would wreak havoc upon the established power structure. If it is in Mexicans politicians best interest to invite the U.S. in to provide investment and jobs for their citizens then that is what they’ll do. The resulting prosperity is what we want. Although education is so poor in Mexico that they are moe easily controlled than we are. Not much we can do about that.

So my answer is to deport, softly. Remove magnets, and increase legal temporary workers. They will self deport when they see their jobs going to people they know that came here legally. then we hammer out a deal with Mexico. I’d opt for real free trade. No tariffs between countries. We would be down there building factorty after factory. Mexicans would be tripping over each other to go back home. We know that they aren’t here to be Americans, they just want work. Once we have the flow going southward then we can give an amnesty that puts fomwer illegals at the back of the line and imposes a sizeable fine or a 10 year period of paying into Soc Sec before they start to acrue benefits.

Also no dual citizenship. No one can be naturalized if they retain citizenship in another country or a legal permanent resident for that matter.

Now See-dubya is suggesting we hold our nose and capitulate, at least somewhat to the Mexicans! How frustrating.

I suggested no such thing. It was an honest question, and I think a reasonable one to ask: what concessions, if any, are prudent towards Mexico in order to better preserve our sovereignty?

I didn’t ask what we owe Mexico, because we owe them nothing. And I don’t have some grand See-Dubya Doctrine of US-Mexican Policy* I’m sneakily pushing you towards. I do think this is a question that we ought to try to answer as part of the broader border-security debate, because even with a border as secure as we can reasonably make it, it’s in the US’s interest to see Mexico become more like Chile and less like Venezuela, or less like Beirut.

Maybe it’s that premise you disagree with, and you think that it doesn’t matter a bit what happens in Mexico.

*a secretive plan known only by its acronym, SD-DUMP.

.
I heard Woodrow Wilson’s Ejército Popular’s guns
I heard Maria crying
Late last night I heard the news
That Veracruz was dying
Veracruz was dying

Someone called Maria’s name
I swear it was my father’s voice
Saying, “If you stay you’ll all be slain
You must leave now – you have no choice
Take the servants and ride west
Keep the child close to your chest
When the American troops withdraw
Let Zapata Ejército Popular will take the rest”

I heard Woodrow Wilson’s Ejército Popular’s guns
I heard Maria calling
Saying, “Veracruz is dying
And Cuernavaca’s falling”

I heard Woodrow Wilson’s Ejército Popular’s guns
I heard them in the harbor
Saying, “Veracruz is dying”

lol. is there an inverse relationship between quality of food and quality of ice hockey? Think about it.

TexasDan on September 12, 2007 at 9:08 PM

Probably not. Here in Dallas we have excellent TexMex food and the outstanding Dallas Stars. Best of both worlds. ;)

/Go Stars!

if we had sealed the border in the first dang place. Mexico would have been forced to open their markets and allow trade and U.S. companies in to employ their citizens

I could not have said it better.

Thanks.

But we do need to cultivate Mexican goodwill. The stooges above are competing for it. They’ll seek to topple the compromised but (nominally) allied government there now and replace it with something much more to their liking, something that will be much more permeable by them and their allies. Or failing that, reduce it to chaos, which serves their interests as well and does not serve ours.

That smacks of neocon fear mongering. Venezuela is a flea.

I’m not saying it could not happen, it could, but we are a long, long, loooong way from that. The disgusting proposition you obliquely mention would not even be a possibility if we had sealed the border in the first dang place. Mexico would have been forced to open their markets and allow trade and U.S. companies in to employ their citizens, or face a civil revolt. I could have been so easy. I hate politicians, where are my statesmen?

Our debt (we let China grow to finance it), China (see the debt), our Mexican problem (no enforcement), our Iran problem (they want nukes becuase we let freakin’ Pakistan have ‘em and now Musharraf has to be dealt with, nukes=permanent regime)… They all could have been dealt with years ago by just doing what we need to do, but our government is inhabited by useless cretins only looking for what the office can do for them. (big reason our government sucks is that the populace is largely ignorant, if the middle of the political spectrum were as educated as your average Hotir reader, not a sinlge slack jawwed candidate could remain in office. Take back the classroom conservatives) Now See-dubya is suggesting we hold our nose and capitulate, at least somewhat to the Mexicans! How frustrating. A Presidential candidate that levels with the nation about the sorry state of the Soc Sec system and tells us that “Hey we are going to have to suck it up, Soc Sec has been poorly managed and now we have to climb out of a hole and honor the commitments made to previous generations”, that candidate has my vote Democrats included.

Southern Canada with better food made me laugh! I have an uncle who lives in BC. You can’t beat the beauty of the Canadian Rockies and NW Coast. The fresh caught trout is pretty good! I’ve been to Ensenada and the food was GREAT! The Ensenada Hockey team isn’t so good this year :-)

Or failing that, reduce it to chaos, which serves their interests as well and does not serve ours.

Not necessarily. Once the mexican government is reduced to chaos, I would say it makes them ripe for application as a group of new US states. (I just know I’m driving the moonbats up the wall saying this. hee hee!)

In all honesty, I’ve often thought that the US is far to congenial to those “allies” that consistently thumb their noses at our laws and sovereignty. I say let the stupid commie fringe group cause chaos in Mexico.

Once the government is sufficiently weak, we can roll in to stop the terrorism, annex Mexico, chop it up into 4 or 5 new states and force them all to learn English as a FIRST language. Immigration problem solved and energy problem solved since we would then own all of Mexico’s oilfields.

Frankly, it would be a step up for most Mexicans since they would all gain US citizenship almost immediately and without making a dangerous border crossing. Hell, we might even have the Mexicans ASK us to annex them if these commies cause enough trouble.

What? you got a better idea?

But how far are we willing to go to secure that situation? What are we willing to give up to establish goodwill there? It seems obvious (to me, anyway) that unrestricted immigration is counterproductive if we are looking to make our country more secure. But then what, if anything, (exit question alert) are we willing to put on the table? Is there anything we could offer that’s worth it?

I said it when this story was a headline that this would be used as a pretext to implement SPP goals… what do you want to “put on the table” See-dubya?

If Mexico America sealed the border, I mean as waterproof as a forgs behind, and ANY possible benefit an illegal could recieve by coming to America be removed, mirror Mexicos immigration laws, and a constitutional amendment to end birthright citizenship, then they get amnesty with a fine. That is the only thing I would be willing to trade.

No matter what it is a win for Mexico. They can be stubborn and prepare for 12 million pissed out of work people coming home. That I gaurantee you they do not want

So See-dubya what are you willing to give?

lol. is there an inverse relationship between quality of food and quality of ice hockey? Think about it.

TexasDan on September 12, 2007 at 9:08 PM

I don’t think even Hockey players like eating the pucks, ey?

But then what, if anything, (exit question alert) are we willing to put on the table? Is there anything we could offer that’s worth it?

If they need us to fight the terrorists, we’ll be there.

If they need us to help when disaster strikes, we’ll be there.

If they need us to teach them how to stop corruption, we’ll be there.

If they need us to assist in installing a true Republic as represented by the people’s will, we’ll be there.

If they need us to teach them the #1 language in the world, we’ll be there.

If they need us to teach them how to run a business successfully, we’ll be there.

I’m sorry, what was your question?

like a southern Canada with better food.

lol. is there an inverse relationship between quality of food and quality of ice hockey? Think about it.

This seems to be a great example of Thomas Friedman’s Superempowered Individual, which he used to describe OBL.

Here’s a “bunch of has-been Shining Path wannabes who peaked in the nineties…” doing significant damage. I think this is where the world is headed. You need to be less and less skilled and less and less connected to acquire weapons and do damage, and – I personally think – will eventually progress to the logical conclusion of indivduals with cash being able to make the individual decision to use nukes.

I personally have no idea why there hasn’t already been after 9-11 an attempt to hit the White House with some sort of improvised (or real) GPS or RC-guided munition.

Stoled the words right out of my mouth,with rumours
of nuclear devices in some American cities,preparations
to bomb Iran,this does smells of Chavez sh!t disturbing.

like a southern Canada with better food.

I’d have you know I just had a box of Deluxe Kraft Dinner. It don’t get better than that.

There is nothing we can do to make Mexico like Canada. Mexico, being an indian/latino culture is incapable of First World status. There are no First World societies of that type. None. I’m not going to write an essay on why that is the case.

@rockhauler, not much difference between Venezuela and Iran right at the moment. Pretty much the same hand up the butts of both puppets if you ask me.