Has the WSJ tracked down Hsu’s cash? Update: Was Hillary warned? Update: Hillary wants refunded donations to be re-donated
posted at 1:44 am on September 12, 2007 by see-dubya
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The Wall Street Journal reporters who’ve been dogging the Paw family and Norman Hsu may have uncovered another piece of the puzzle:
New documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal may help point to an answer: A company controlled by Mr. Hsu recently received $40 million from a Madison Avenue investment fund run by Joel Rosenman, who was one of the creators of the Woodstock rock festival in 1969. That money, Mr. Rosenman told investors this week, is missing.
Mr. Rosenman is apparently a very successful capitalist, and it’s probably not for me to quibble with his methods but, before I signed over a FORTY MILLION DOLLAR LOAN to someone, I’d want to do a little background check…just to see if there are any red flags like, oh, an outstanding fugitive warrant, or a grand theft conviction for a million-dollar Ponzi scheme in another China-import deal.
In a letter this Monday, Mr. Rosenman told investors that the 37 outstanding deals with Components Ltd. are set to mature “over the next four months.” But he indicated that was not likely. He said he had deposited two checks from Components that “matured Sept. 7.” He was informed by the banks that there were insufficient funds.
“This development, coupled with recent revelations,” he wrote, “led us to believe that payments due on our recent transactions with Components and Hsu may not be made.”
Source Financing, Mr. Rosenman’s company, has asked the beneficiaries of Mr. Hsu’s largesse to quit giving it away to charity in order to recover it for their investors.
No word on whether Mr. Rosenman wants his own contributions to Hillary back, nor those of a Ned Rosenman who also works for Source Financing, nor those of a Molly Rosenman, also of Source Financing–each of whom gave her $4600 back in March.
Exit Questions: What sort of contacts did Hsu have in China that he thought he could pull this off so profitably? Did Hsu even think this would work? Or was the whole thing another con? That doesn’t seem likely, because this would blow up in Hsu’s face later instead of sooner (although maybe he planned to move the money offshore and then vanish before the post-dated checks came due).
And if it was just a con, why raise his profile by donating all that money to the Democrats?
PS Bonus Joel Rosenman quote from 1969, after he produced Woodstock:
“Those of us who have worked on this thing have learned an awful lot about each other. You can learn a lot about human nature when the chips are down.”
MORE: Like (apparently everyone) at Source Financing, Mr. Rosenman’s partner Yau Cheng was a longtime Hillary backer and gave her $4600 on 3/28. (I’m wondering whether their checks were in one of the “bundles” that Hsu took to Hill HQ.)
AND MORE: The Rosenmans and the Clintons go waaayyy back. Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, July 28, 1994:
It looks like first daughter Chelsea Clinton is taking a pass on attending Woodstock ‘94. Molly Rosenman, the daughter of Woodstock producer Joel Rosenman, issued an invitation to Chelsea for the Aug. 12-14 event in New York State.
”Dear Chelsea,” the letter reads, ”If you like rock & roll, this should be great! Why don’t you join my family and me at Woodstock? Best Wishes, Molly.”White House spokeswoman Dee Dee Myers said, ”As far as I know, I’ve seen no plans to that effect.” The 25th anniversary show will feature such performers as Bob Dylan and the Spin Doctors.
Update (AP): How much did Hillary know about Hsu? Her camp’s apologized for not vetting him more thoroughly, but that conveniently places them behind the veil of ignorance. MM wonders how that can be possible when Hsu, as a fugitive, would have turned up in a Secret Service background check before being allowed in contact with the Clintons. WaPo’s skeptical too:
That such a basic mistake could slip through the famously disciplined Clinton campaign has raised eyebrows among strategists in both parties. Clinton herself is known for doing background research on people before she meets them, digging for personal details she can introduce into a conversation. The sheer amount Hsu raised as a virtual unknown in a short period of time should have raised questions, some say.
“He is a bundler on steroids,” said veteran Republican campaign lawyer Jan W. Baran. “Just think back to the 2004 campaigns: The highest level of bundler recognition was $250,000, and that was at the end of the campaign. Here we are in September of ‘07, and this guy has apparently raised $850,000 in a matter of months. And for that same reason, he probably should have set off alarm bells.”…
Irvine, Calif., businessman Jack Cassidy told the FBI that he sent at least three e-mails to a Clinton campaign official on the West Coast this summer, specifically raising concerns that Hsu was engaged in a risky investment scheme and was using Hillary Clinton’s name “in vain” to solicit people for his business proposition, according to a person directly familiar with the matter.
Cassidy’s concern was that Hsu was using the Clintons to give credence to his business venture, the source said, speaking only on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing FBI inquiry.
According to a source for the New York Daily News, “They knew [about Hsu], and they knew back in June.” Yeah, well, they know about this guy too and that hasn’t not stopped them from working with him.
Update (AP): Just how many tainted donors does Hillary have, anyway?
Update (AP): You cannot be serious.
The campaign is refunding $850,000 to [Hsu's bundled] donors, viewing the money as tainted. Yet the campaign is also risking another public relations mess by saying that it would take back the money if it clearly came from the donor’s bank account, not from Mr. Hsu or another source. The risk is that Mrs. Clinton will appear to want more cash no matter whether it was once colored by a disgraced donor.
The campaign will try to get most of the donors to give the money back right after the refunds, said a senior Democratic strategist who advises Mrs. Clinton’s campaign. “That’s the plan,” the strategist said.
The strategist, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal campaign deliberations, added that the Clinton campaign was deeply worried that the controversy could grow.
“They are worried there are more out there,” the strategist said. “Bundlers. The feeling is there are a few more that will have Hsu problems.”
Riddle me this: If the worry is that Hsu was using at least some of these people as fronts so that he could exceed the federal limits on how much he could donate to Hillary, then how will the money be any less tainted if they re-gift it to her? I.e., if Hsu cuts John Doe a check for $100,000 and asks him to spread it around among Democrats A-Z, then giving that money back to John so that he can give it right back to you doesn’t “cleanse” it. It’s Hsu’s money; John never should have had it in the first place. If you donate the money to charity and then hit John up for a donation from his own bank account, that’s fine. But that ain’t what she’s planning to do. Exit question: Why not at least wait until the DOJ investigation of Hsu’s bundled donations is over so you know which donors are clean and which aren’t?
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This Hsu thing is getting better and better! I don’t watch or read MSM. Anyone beside WSJ following this?
jaime on September 12, 2007 at 2:16 AM
this story just keeps growing , you would think hilldabeast having to return close to a million dollars would get more then a mention on the abc blog.
Mojack420 on September 12, 2007 at 2:38 AM
Washington post has an editorial and a report up on this – apparently the Irvine dude warned the Clinton camp 3 times and the the hapless researchers found nothing – even though the WAPO concedes their cursory searches on him supplied plenty of lawsuits and bankruptcies.
Editorial
Story
Hillary Can’t Connect DOTS!!!!.
But seriously, I just ind it very unlikely Democrats can’t dig crud up on people – just look what the did to Michael Steele.
Topsecretk9 on September 12, 2007 at 3:09 AM
Methinks that Joel Rosenman should be sent to prison for defrauding his investors. “Fiduciary responsibility” – two words that establish a legal liability.
georgej on September 12, 2007 at 4:02 AM
I think we have a new name appearing for Hillary.
-
Imelda Marcos
-
Imelda is a former First Lady and influential political figure
-
So is Hillary.
-
Imelda is known as the ‘Steel Butterfly’ and remains a controversial figure not only in her home country, but around the world.
-
Hillary is sometimes referred to as the ‘Dragon Lady’ and is a controversial figure not only in her home country, but around the world.
-
Imelda’s extensive shoe collection is world-renowned.
-
Hillary has at least $850,000 worth of HSU’s.
-
Imelda Marcos Wiki entry
ordi on September 12, 2007 at 5:04 AM
Mr. Rosenman:
When Mr. Hsu gave those post-dated checks, did you ever considered ……
slp on September 12, 2007 at 6:32 AM
Chelsea was 14 in 1994. No surprise she wasn’t allowed to go.
Bradky on September 12, 2007 at 6:37 AM
So when will we find a Soros connection to this?
ConservativeinDublin on September 12, 2007 at 7:00 AM
Looks like an illegal way for rich liberals to give more money to Hillary. Investment fund run by a woodstock creator? No one can make up irony this thick.
Stormy70 on September 12, 2007 at 7:49 AM
HaHAHAHAHAHAHA, that is a great post.
right2bright on September 12, 2007 at 7:50 AM
LOL!
rightside on September 12, 2007 at 8:18 AM
And still the MSM marvels at how crafty the Democrats are in collecting all this obviously illegal campaign cash, in a vain fundraising contest between Usama Obama and Hillary “Cankles” Clinton.
Neo on September 12, 2007 at 8:18 AM
Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser. Woodstock Nation is under siege. Maybe Hillary isn’t a Hsu-in for the nomination after all.
Tom McLaughlin on September 12, 2007 at 8:30 AM
Pfft, cynic. Trust your fellow man, man. Like we did at Woodstock! Dude. Man. Now lets check out this crunchy groove and spread the power of love! Man. Weeeoooooow! *plays air guitar to no music*
Dash on September 12, 2007 at 8:38 AM
As far as I can tell, in the donor disclosure database it lists “SF Investments” for Joel Rosenman and Yau Cheng. Apparently this is a mistake. SF Investments is actually “Self/Investments” meaning the donor disclosure just lists their company as “self” and their money comes from investments.
Joel Rosenman is actually the CEO of JR Capital in NYC. Yau Cheng is a partner at JR Capital.
Now, maybe I cannot find the real website for JR Capital, but when you go to jrcapital.com you are prompted to login. What kind of finance house that writes checks for 40 million dollars has little to no web presence?
gabriel sutherland on September 12, 2007 at 8:41 AM
Just another Chinese National funneling money to the Clintons. In 1996 the Chinese received data on a sophisticated satellite system. Wonder what the payoff was going to be for this “donation”. I wonder how much of the 40,000,000 will be kicked back to Roseman after it has disappeared or is this another attempt where a competing nation tries to buy politicians that are so immoral as to sell out their own country?
volsense on September 12, 2007 at 8:44 AM
Correction: Here are some of the names of Rosenman’s company. I can’t find a website for any of these entities.
SF Investments
Source Financing Investments
JR Capital
Two of Joel’s children, Molly and Ned, have each contributed the $4,600 max to Hillary Clinton. Both list Rosenman’s company as their employer.
gabriel sutherland on September 12, 2007 at 8:47 AM
Here’s a good source of data from the wayback machine. You’ll see Components Ltd on this one.
http://web.archive.org/web/20050205195419/jrcapital.com/about_us.htm
gabriel sutherland on September 12, 2007 at 8:53 AM
Two Predictions:
1. Before this story is over, the sordid side of campaign contributions under McCain-Feingold will be exposed for what we all knew it was.
2. Many around the Clintons will be exposed for their Abramoff-like corruption but the Clintons themselves will remain unscathed as their latest set of friends are thrown under the bus.
highhopes on September 12, 2007 at 8:59 AM
I think Eva Peron would be a more apt comparison.
highhopes on September 12, 2007 at 9:00 AM
Does anyone know what the law is regarding the address you list on donations for FEC purposes?
Joel Rosenman lists his address as “488 MADISON AVE
NEW YORK NY” but that is an office building, not a residence.
Topsecretk9 on September 12, 2007 at 3:09 AM
Exactly.
But Michael Steele is just the tip of the iceberg. Hillary has been doing opposition research since her days in Arkansas when she had to deal with Bill’s Bimbo Eruptions.
Maybe she’ll blame it on the fact that she no longer has access to FBI files a la Filegate. In any case I predict she will make campaign finance reform part of her platform now.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 9:03 AM
I assume JR Capital and the others are a publicly traded. . . where are the Sarbanes-Oxley disclosures for these “companies”?
MCPO Airdale on September 12, 2007 at 9:12 AM
How much of the brown acid would you have to have taken to think donating to Hillary was a good idea?
saint kansas on September 12, 2007 at 9:16 AM
gabriel sutherland on September 12, 2007 at 8:53 AM
Thanks for the link.
Waddya know. Yau Cheng also gave money to Hillary and lists the same Madison Avenue address as Rosenman.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 9:19 AM
These finance/investment companies probably do not have offices. These entities just funnel capital back and forth to facilitate larger deals.
Rosenman doesn’t appear to have any business savvy at all. JR Capital was created by accident when Rosenman and his Woodstock partner, a trust fund baby, John Roberts placed ads in newspapers selling themselves as investors looking for great ideas. Apparently a lot of people responded to the ads and they started connecting the ideas to people with money, ie Rosenman’s and Roberts’ friends.
gabriel sutherland on September 12, 2007 at 9:29 AM
This California man that supports Democrats, Jack Cassidy, posted his views of Hsu in late August.
http://donklephant.com/2007/08/29/hillary-fundraising-update-norman-hsu-is-a-fugitive/#comment-381440
Well, NBC describes Cassidy as an Orange County Republican.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/09/11/354871.aspx
gabriel sutherland on September 12, 2007 at 9:42 AM
The mention of Woodstock made me remember this earmark:
Source: http://www.americansforprosperity.org/index.php?id=3477
Granted, its not as big as feinstein’s $4 Billion Park at the expense of veterans but fits nicely with circumstantial whatever.
sunny on September 12, 2007 at 9:59 AM
I think this Jack Cassidy story is a red herring.
The Clintons did not need anyone to warn them about Hsu. All their staff had to do was use common sense and question the fact that his businesses and multiple addresses changed faster than Hillary’s positions on the Iraq War.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 10:09 AM
The Internet is a very good thing, no?
How else could we find these things out so easily and so quickly. It’s a boon.
Bob's Kid on September 12, 2007 at 10:11 AM
Why would you wait for information from another source when you already know which are clean and which are dirty?
News2Use on September 12, 2007 at 10:18 AM
445 Madison Avenue is an office location and both Rosenman and Yau Cheng list that as their address on their FEC filings at one point (although Rosenman also filed from 322 W. 57th Street).
By the way, Rosenman graduated from Yale Law School, but you’re right about Roberts being the guy with the cash. In any case, as Allah says, $40 million dollars is a lot of money to invest in a company as fishy as Hsu’s.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 10:21 AM
Make that, as “See Dubya” says!
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 10:22 AM
Looks like more of the same old same old from the Clintons. It did’nt seem to make a $h1t last go round, so it probably won’t this go round either.
Too bad.
saiga on September 12, 2007 at 10:26 AM
From one of the updates -
Didn’t I read last week that Clinton personally waved Hsu through some event?
From the WaPo story:
What a load of crap. Hsu did not begin raising money in January. And all you have to do is look at the FEC filings and alarm bells should ring, and one does not need a criminal background check to get to that point.
I’d also be sending subpeoenas to Terry McAuliffe right about now:
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 10:41 AM
Maybe I was thinking of this time Clinton told the Secret Service to back off.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 10:58 AM
Uh OK let’s see
What did she know and when did she know it.
This calls for a full investigation.
Culture of corruption.
Hillary Lied!
ETSETEDA…ETSETEDA…ETSETEDA
ronsfi on September 12, 2007 at 11:02 AM
The Secret Service stand-down. I knew it, those guys are no fans of Billy and the Beast, they have always made their jobs hell.
bbz123 on September 12, 2007 at 11:24 AM
Don’t you having a flashing light or a flaming skull or something wicked you can attach to this story??
This is a great piece, it should at least float around the top of the page for a day or two.
Ken McCracken on September 12, 2007 at 11:30 AM
Yes, but. Our adversaries (domestic and international) harness it’s power too, and more so.
JiangxiDad on September 12, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Haven’t you seen the pic of Hillary that accompanies all these threads? It’s all you ask for and more.
JiangxiDad on September 12, 2007 at 11:36 AM
4shoes on September 12, 2007 at 11:40 AM
Just substitute “William Paw” for “John Doe” in your post, See-Dub, and it seems pretty clear.
I see burly guys in dark suits and dark glasses coming up to the Paw house, giving them a check, and saying “Given your committment to puttin’ this country back on the right track, we’d appreciate if you’d countersign this check back to Mrs. Clinton’s campaign. Ya know, Mr. Paw, ya house looks a little the worse for wear. It doesn’t really look like it could handle somethin’ terrible like…oh…a fire. Hope that nevah happens to ya…”
eeyore on September 12, 2007 at 11:52 AM
Hillary isn’t worried about Secret Service background checks. Read Unlimited Access by FBI Agent Gary Aldrich. Aldridge was assigned to the White House to do background checks on Clinton appointees, and he was stonewalled continually.
jimbo2 on September 12, 2007 at 11:58 AM
Has anyone considered that Rosenman never expected the money to be paid back? Given everything else, how hard is it to believe that he wanted to give (embezzle) $40MM to Hillary, and he just went to her designated contribution launderer (Hsu) to get it done?
phelps on September 12, 2007 at 12:16 PM
“How much did Hillary know about Hsu? Her camp’s apologized for not vetting him more thoroughly, but that conveniently places them behind the veil of ignorance. MM wonders how that can be possible when Hsu, as a fugitive, would have turned up in a Secret Service background check before being allowed in contact with the Clintons”.
According to Gary Aldrich’s book, Unlimited Access, very few of the WH staff during the Clinton reign passed the background check. When one of the biggest criteria of being in the Klintoon’s ‘circle of trust’ is criminality, this is to be expected.
According to Lucianne, just give them Hillary! camp another day to respond to this round, it does take time to fabricate really good BS. Actually, the BS factory will have to work at maximum production from now until…well, as long as Her Royal Cowntess seeks more power than any human can possess.
Christine on September 12, 2007 at 12:17 PM
Hsu hosted a fundraiser at billionaire Ron Burkle’s house in March. Bill Clinton and Ron Burkle have a financial relationship. Now, even if Hillary didn’t do a thorough background check on Hsu, I don’t believe Burkle would have had him in his house without vetting the man.
As for Rosenman, did Kathie Lee Gifford teach him anything? If you’re going to invest in Chinese manufacturing, you HAVE to go visit the factories. How irresponsible from many standpoints (humanitarian among them). Or it would have been irresponsible, if this weren’t really all a Hillary fundraising ruse and not a manufacturing investment at all.
MayBee on September 12, 2007 at 12:17 PM
Isnt it the law that if you dont spend any campaign money you get to keep it for your very own ?
Great way to enrich people in office
William Amos on September 12, 2007 at 12:25 PM
Can you imagine the years long outrage if a Norm Hsu type had been discovered on the Republican side? I said discovered-I’m not claiming that there isn’t dirty money on all sides, but if someone like Hsu were uncovered after getting close to Guliani or Romney…
Doug on September 12, 2007 at 12:34 PM
That could very easily be the case. Nothing is ever too low or too dirty for the Clintons.
ReubenJCogburn on September 12, 2007 at 12:34 PM
THIS is how the MSM is playing this story
CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/12/politics/main3253509.shtml
New Precedent For Campaign Cash
By Returning $850K Associated With Norman Hsu, Clinton Puts Pressure On Rivals
In returning $850,000 to donors associated with a disgraced fundraiser, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton sets a significant new standard for how campaigns should respond in the face of potential scandal.
Clinton’s decision also underscores the price – financial and political – that her campaign is paying for failing to spot trouble with the fundraiser, Norman Hsu, even after receiving a warning. The campaign announced it would now conduct background checks on its fundraisers, an extraordinary and potentially time consuming step.
By returning the money, Clinton also puts pressure on presidential rivals and other politicians with rainmakers who have dubious pasts or who have employed questionable fundraising tactics, including the campaigns of Barack Obama and John Edwards.
William Amos on September 12, 2007 at 12:39 PM
BTW, I would love to take credit, but everything below where it says Update (AP) is Allah’s writing, not mine.
see-dubya on September 12, 2007 at 12:49 PM
MayBee on September 12, 2007 at 12:17 PM
Thanks for the reminder.
Susie Tompkins Buell also co-hosted a fund raiser with Norman Hsu. This story details how the Secret Service got stuck in an elevator trying to get to her apartment during a previous fund raiser during Bill’s Presidency.
I can’t say one gets the impression that security is very important to her.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 12:59 PM
William Amos on September 12, 2007 at 12:39 PM
St. Hillary rides in on her white horse again.
Earlier I said that Hillary will make campaign-finance reform part of her platform. I was being facetious then, but the MSM are ready to buy this hook, line and sinker.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 1:04 PM
More on Susie Tompkins Buell and the Clintons. From a 1997 SF Weekly story.
Ha Ha Ha.
Of course not – they never do!
Beyond the fundraising angle, this story is like a synopsis of Moonbats, Inc.
You can’t make this stuff up.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 1:27 PM
Ron Burkle is an expert at the game of “investing” in the properties of well known public figures who just so happen to start engaging in political affairs when they previously hadn’t even voted.
Burkle, through Yucaipa Investments, which is backed by Calpers, the California state worker pension fund, dropped 100 million in Sean Combs’ “Sean John” clothing line. Burkle though the line had potential. At that very same time, Sean Combs, aka Puff Daddy, started his “Vote or Die” campaign. Now, which voting group does Puff Daddy appeal to besides the pension fund backed finance wizards? And in which party do they vote?
In case you were wondering, Rev. Jesse Jackson’s corporate raiding son, Yusuf Jackson, endorsed Burkle backed Hillary Clinton for President. The Rev. Jackson has assisted Ron Burkle’s acquisitions of grocery chains. Burkle’s fortune is nearly entirely acquired through the merger and acquisition of grocery chains with troubled relations with union labor.
gabriel sutherland on September 12, 2007 at 1:49 PM
Thanks, Buy Danish.
If I had to guess, I would guess Susie Tompkins Buell met Hsu in the Hong Kong garment industry when she still owned ESPRIT.
Her former business partner, Michael Ying (based in Hong Kong), is one of the world’s richest people.
MayBee on September 12, 2007 at 1:50 PM
If Buell brought Hsu in to the donor circle, nobody would have questioned his legitimacy.
MayBee on September 12, 2007 at 1:51 PM
gabriel sutherland on September 12, 2007 at 1:49 PM
Is everyone in the clothing business? Hsu, Buell and Burkle? Fashionistas for the Clintonistas!
More on Norman Hsu’s fundraising partner, Susie Buell:
Maybe being in the clothing business is an asset when it come to web weaving.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 2:11 PM
Have any of the Media Matters/Townhouse list bloggers so much as mentioned Norman Hsu?
MayBee on September 12, 2007 at 2:21 PM
Yep. Rumor has it he got himself on the Board of the New School thanks to Bernard “Loral” Schwartz, and look what else Bernie and Buell are involved in.
The Democracy Alliance
In other words it bundles money, and what a shock it would be if we were to discover that Norman Hsu was a member of the Democracy Alliance too, although I don’t know how one gets access to their secret files.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 2:25 PM
I don’t know about their bloggers, but here is Media Matters take on the Hsu Scandal.
Be sure to “take action” and contact the Washington Times to complain about this injustice!
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 2:34 PM
gabriel:
Many finance firms have restricted web presences. The SEC and state AGs are rather insane about restricting the information given to unqualified investors, so minimal web presences help keep them out of lawsuits. Also, low profiles help you get business done and stay out of the way of activists and legislators. Talk to Blackstone about how much they love their new high profile!
$40M is peanuts and financial firms can control billions in assets with few employees. You need to hit $10-100B before you start attracting attention unless you seek it out.
As to why you’d invest tens of millions with a sketchy partner: China. He either seemed to have good connections, or else he does have good connections on the mainland. Anyone doing business in the PRC knows that dealing with the merely unsavory or questionable is a good day. You’re more likely to be dealing with out and out spies and perpetrators of massacres. A thief is an honest person in these circumstances. Business in China is like Russia, but with a more professional secret service that doesn’t like flamboyant executions in foreign capitals.
libertarianuberalles on September 12, 2007 at 2:41 PM
Buy Danish- thanks for that. Doing a search on MM for Hsu was even more of a hoot. It’s all an injustice.
As far as I can tell, Kos has mentioned him once as a “random bundler” in a story about one of Romney’s aides that apparently was crooked. Otherwise, no recommended diaries or front page stories about him show up on a Kos search.
They sure do know how to keep their mouths shut, don’t they?
MayBee on September 12, 2007 at 2:50 PM
Just sent this in
William Amos on September 12, 2007 at 2:50 PM
Opps forgot this great quote
William Amos on September 12, 2007 at 2:51 PM
Laundering money through one source (Hsu) – illegal and reprehensible.
Laundering money through two sources (Hsu, then the Clinton Campaign’s “reimbursement”) – perfectly clean and acceptable…
Really? So if I launder my money through two separate front organizations it’s not only “clean” but entirely legal? I have a completely new business model for my “work from home” scheme.
gekkobear on September 12, 2007 at 3:18 PM
libertarianuberalles on September 12, 2007 at 2:41 PM
Question for you:
Joel Rosenman gave Norman Hsu $40 million dollars as an investment in Components Ltd. Considering the distance (figuratively and literally) between the U.S. and China, how difficult is it to keep tabs on how well an investment is doing? Could someone like Hsu take the money and then claim that, so sorry, but the company went bankrupt and all the money is gone?
William Amos,
Thanks for the latest farcical turn in the Clinton fund raising mess.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 3:24 PM
why raise his profile by donating all that money to the Democrats?
Maybe that’s part of the con. If he’s running another Ponzi scheme, maybe he used his status as a “reputable” Democratic fundraiser to get Joel Rosenman to invest in his clothing business. Then he’s got $40 million to spend, Rosenman’s name as a big investor, and big-money donations listed in OpenSecrets.org. That might inspire confidence in the future investors he needs to keep the scheme running.
Eventually, of course, he was bound to run out of suckers, like he did last time.
Jobius on September 12, 2007 at 3:41 PM
Jobius- the other thing to consider is that wealthy Dem donors were using him to funnel money to Dem politicians. They weren’t taken in by the Ponzi scheme- they were the Ponzi scheme. Your theory is less tinfoil than mine.
I have a hard time believing that Rosenman did no due dilligence on his investment, or that the people who gave him money aren’t more publicly outraged(!).
MayBee on September 12, 2007 at 3:51 PM
Exactamundo! My hunch is that the Democracy Alliance was directing traffic.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 4:07 PM
MayBee,
I forgot to mention – I think it’s possible that Joel Rosenman gave the money to Hsu for just that purpose, or at least to skim some off the top to contribute to the Dems.
Rosenman can claim that he’s a victim – that Hsu owes him the money and he knew nothing about his fund raising schemes.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 4:17 PM
Uhhhh…. because you’re corrupt to your very core and would sell national secrets to communist spies if you thought it might increase your chances of gaining more power?
peski on September 12, 2007 at 6:08 PM
If some of the money may be clean, why not put it in escrow until the investigation is over? That way the donors don’t need to give it back, which at the very least would seem lame.
jaychandra on September 12, 2007 at 6:14 PM
I love how CBS frames it as a potential scandal. There is no actual scandal here, just the possibility of one, which has been averted because of the (D) next to Hillary’s name.
Resolute on September 12, 2007 at 7:43 PM
Found out that Joel Rosenman (along with Cindy Margolas) was a plantiff in a case against a dotcom company called Idealab
His name is down on the platiffs list
lawsuit
more about Idealab and its defaulting on a mutil million dollar loan from Bank of America
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jan2003/nf20030115_5917.htm
Seems there was some sort of settlement
William Amos on September 12, 2007 at 7:44 PM
JR Capital provides diversified venture capital and management consulting services.
Brief History
? Organized in 1967 by John Roberts and Joel Rosenman, JR Capital (JRC) has served a wide variety of clients in almost every sector.
? JRC draws expertise and capital from three pools:
? World-renowned experts
? Seasoned managers
? Sophisticated investors Hmm sophisitcated? Wouldn’t wealthy be better?
sonnyspats1 on September 12, 2007 at 8:20 PM
That Rosenman hadn’t vetted a $40M loanee is awfully suspicious. And it is interstingly coincidental that the checks that “didn’t mature” were due after Hsu made front page news. Had Rosenman ever received a mature check before or does the maturity date happen to be an “on call” date and these are the first ones?
Is this investment fund open to the pubic or is it a group of “special” investors? If the latter, I’d be looking at whether this campaign money laundering scam is a little bigger than this two-bit Hsu middleman, ’cause it isn’t necessarily a loss on investment if the money gets to it’s intended recipient. And what better way to invest than to “lose” money where you want to “lose” it and chalk it up to a bad investment decision. And get a tax deduction to boot.
Dusty on September 12, 2007 at 8:32 PM
He didn’t use JR Capital for this, though. He set up another entity in 2005, Source Financing.
I’m a bit confused because Rosenman started investing with Hsu in 2002 and made a profit. He convinced investors to join his Source financing to invest in Hsu beginning in 2005, and says most of the investments are about 4 1/2 months. Which means he should have gotten several checks in the past that were valid. I find it interesting that once Hsu’s name became public, Rosenman started finding himself a victim.
Also, Hsu didn’t start as a Dem player until 2003– after he met Rosenman. So he wasn’t using that as an “in”.
MayBee on September 12, 2007 at 8:39 PM
Its how a “Ponzi” scheme works. You get original investors then pay them with money from newer investors.
You just roll over the debt to the next investor “sucker” that joins
After a while the checks stop
William Amos on September 12, 2007 at 9:12 PM
I think that the excuse she provides us requires the willing suspension of disbelief.
Texyank on September 12, 2007 at 9:58 PM
Picture of the day from fox news
http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/091207_HsuBooking.jpg
William Amos on September 12, 2007 at 11:05 PM
There’s nothing left but ad hom’s. This filthy, unqualified, oportunistic, soulless piece of sub-human debris will STILL get about 50% of the vote. I’m effing fuming! Where are the repub’s, DEMANDING HER RESIGNATION?? Can anyone here imagine doing anything and saying anything just to get what you think would be kinda cool?
JWS on September 12, 2007 at 11:10 PM
Harold Ickes lurks somewhere pulling the strings.
Bank it.
mylegsareswollen on September 12, 2007 at 11:36 PM
Final posts of the night
Barak Obama would take candy from a baby
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/13/wobama113.xml
Number two. Obama and Edwards got tainted bundled money. And kept it !
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/hsu-refund-pressures-clinton-rivals-2007-09-13.html
William Amos on September 13, 2007 at 12:27 AM
Crookedness without finesse.
madmonkphotog on September 13, 2007 at 8:55 AM
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