I know!…

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Mitt came up with a plan and tried to implement it, instead of giving a talking points list of what health care should be.

BKennedy on September 12, 2007 at 9:55 AM

That is the definition of leadership isn’t it? Rudy and Mitt have it. Fred and Hillary do not.

Right now, ALL universal health care plans are socialist in nature, so I’d argue that ANY health care plan that moves away from those socialist plans is a move in the right direction and is completely consistent with conservative principles. Especially when we are trying to take back a position that the liberals have dominated in.

We cannot swing the pendulum from the left to right without going through the middle.

csdeven on September 12, 2007 at 9:37 AM

Just one of the many other reasons I’m pulling for Mitt is because of health care. Yes, I know the plan is flawed and certainly imperfect. However, health care is a major problem in America. Here are some brief facts:

1: The current health care situation sucks.
2: HillaryCare, if implemented, will suck even more.

Given those facts, I support Mitt because he actually went out on a limb and did something about it. Was his plan perfect? Certainly not, but with Mitt you know he’s actually going to put something forward instead of just mouthing everyone else with “Health Care Sucks! Socialized Medicine Sucks!” Mitt came up with a plan and tried to implement it, instead of giving a talking points list of what health care should be.

BKennedy on September 12, 2007 at 9:15 AM

I’m glad you dealt with that. I was trying to find a different way to explain that because normal rational hasn’t worked with some of these people. And the Heritage Foundation angle on this was the very first thing I thought of.

Here’s the problem with their view of Mitt’s efforts.

If Mass was a conservative haven and Mitt did this, it could be viewed as a step away from conservatism. Mass is a liberal stronghold, so the move away from a total socialist society towards conservatism is a move in the right direction..

Right now, ALL universal health care plans are socialist in nature, so I’d argue that ANY health care plan that moves away from those socialist plans is a move in the right direction and is completely consistent with conservative principles. Especially when we are trying to take back a position that the liberals have dominated in.

We cannot swing the pendulum from the left to right without going through the middle.

Mitt? Closet socialist, liked abortion before running for president, perfect family with no errors, ever. Mitt says he can win in Michigan. But, Michigan can’t beat Appalachian State.

Yeah, that’s why Massachusetts became a socialist utopia during Mitt’s reign.

If Mitt were really a socialist, he could have easily sold it to the socialists here in Massachusetts. But guess what, Mitt isn’t a socialist, closet or otherwise. In fact, if Mitt were a socialist then he’d probably be the worst socialist ever considering he spent his life making enterprises successful through good old fashioned capitalism.

And don’t pull out that health care crap again. Mitt is the only candidate who has ever even TRIED to address it in a meaningful way, and guess who he consulted: The Heritage Foundation!

You’ll excuse me if I find your viewpoint at odds with reality.

By the way, the only lobbying that really bothers me on Fred’s part was his “lobbying” for Aristide.
Buy Danish on September 12, 2007 at 8:32 AM

Why aren’t you bothered by Fred’s other lobbing?

He lobbied to deny asbestos victims the right to be represented individually by attorneys. It effectively limited the liability of the companies who carelessly used asbestos and exposed their employees to it.

He is supposedly a federalist, and my understanding is that he lobbied to have the government involved in a private sector endeavor.

I admit the lobbying for the pro-choice group was minor. It’s was the lying and the continued attempt at cover that is the real problem.

American Heritage Dictionary – Cite This Source
sort (sôrt) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A group of persons or things of the same general character; a kind.
2. Character or nature: books of all sorts.
3. One that exemplifies the characteristics of or serves a similar function to another: “A large dinner-party … made a sort of general introduction for her to the society of the neighbourhood” (George Eliot).
4. A person; an individual: The clerk is a decent sort.
5. A way of acting or behaving.
6. sorts Printing One of the characters in a font of type.
7. An act or instance of sorting: did a sort on the columns of data.

I know what I meant. You use “sorted” to generalize behavior without attaching specific judgment as to it being good or bad.

You can see it is bad behavior and therefore assume I meant “sordid”. It’s kinda like calling out the groupies and only those who are groupies get offended.

Thank you for revealing your true understanding of Fred’s behavior. Now, why can’t you just call a spade a spade and leave the spin to the groupies?

Sordid not sorted. Sheesh.

techno_barbarian on September 11, 2007 at 11:59 PM

I said, “I for one…” I was speaking in general terms and I didn’t mean to imply that SonnyPats had me in mind.

Tennman on September 12, 2007 at 12:19 AM

Oh, good grief. Maybe I should have said a Clinton Adviser during the Clinton administration.

What does the fact that Morris is a former “advisor” to the Clintons have to do with what he has to say about Fred? Are you saying that just the fact that he worked for them at one point means that he has no credibility?

If so, how is it that it’s okay to be a lobbyist or lawyer but not a political consultant?

By the way, the only lobbying that really bothers me on Fred’s part was his “lobbying” for Aristide.

Secondly, most all of that is 15 plus years old.

Thompson served in the Senate from 1994 – 2003. Please advise the cut off date for items that are too “old”.

As for the rest of your comments about lobbying, very good! You are actually beginning to deal with the issue here.

Oh – my name goes back to the Danish cartoon riots, and my disgust with cowardly Dhimmis in the media who cower at the thought of “offending” perpetually outraged muslims and refuse to print the most benign cartoons (to name just one example of their disgraceful cowardice), empowering Islamofascism in the process.

sonnyspats1 on September 12, 2007 at 12:42 AM

Was Alan Fabian a “bundler” when he was named a Bush Ranger, or did he give his own money? Since McCain-Feingold had not taken the money out of politics at that time*, I could be wrong, but I don’t think these donations needed to be bundled (unless there was money laundering involved like with the Chicoms and the Clintons) because the laws were different at that time.

I think you are (once again) jumping to conclusions that are not in the story, but it’s hard to say since you don’t provide a link.

*/sarc.

csdeven on September 12, 2007 at 8:00 AM

Oh, I have no doubt you’ll continue your sordid ways regardless of what happens with Hillary, Obama, etc. Normal people who support normal people will not pay much attention to your specious caterwauling.

Hi ho, hi ho, it’s off to work I go.

First of all, FTD only has a sordid history in your mind. If you find scum there, it’s not his fault.

Secondly, read again my 12:19 a.m. post. The issue is lobbying and representation. I think I did a fair job of clarifying the issue and explaining the function of lobbyists in government, and the lawyer’s ethical obligation to fairly represent his clients.

If you cannot or will not understand that, then it’s, again, your fault. Not FDT’s.

Tennman on September 12, 2007 at 1:53 AM

First, Fred’s sorted (American Heritage Dictionary 5) A way of acting or behaving) history was laid out very clearly by BM.

I did read your post and just because YOU are willing to turn the presidency over to someone who justifies his defense of scumbags by hiding behind rhetoric, doesn’t mean he’s the best man for the job. You are going to find out very soon that Americans do not want a professional lobbyist as the most powerful person on the face of the earth. Especially a lobbyist that RARELY lobbied for worthwhile conservative causes. Fred almost ALWAYS went for the clients with the big bucks and left the victims to fend for themselves. You hair renting Fred groupies refuse to accept the fact that Fred could have chosen to lobby for THE VICTIMS. That is a way of behaving that is disgusting to regular folks.

I’m going to watching you Fred supporters very carefully for complaints about Hillary and others involvement with lobbyists. And believe you me, you going get a full on broadside when I see it. As a matter of fact, I expect you lobbyist supporters to come out in defense of ANY candidate, regardless of party affiliation, who is attacked for their connections to lobbyists.

I wonder if you are actually going to be shocked when you get banned from HotAir.
doriangrey on September 12, 2007 at 1:32 AM

I think I’ve been around here long enough that if I was getting close to some line, AP would let me know. If you’d like to quote chapter and verse from the rules of conduct and then point out how I am the only one guilty of transgressions, then please, go right ahead.

If I were you, I’d worry about my own behavior.

Rudiani? Abortion mill’s best friend, needs to shave legs if he’s going to wear that dress, America’s sanctuary city mayor, melt down handguns candidate. Fact: no GOP candidate can beat Hill in New York. Forget it. Check out the polls. Don’t let Rudiani’s clones tell you he can beat Hill in New York.

Mitt? Closet socialist, liked abortion before running for president, perfect family with no errors, ever. Mitt says he can win in Michigan. But, Michigan can’t beat Appalachian State.

Ron Paul? Driving his flying saucer over area 51 so he’s too busy to deal with terrorism.

Tancredo? Good on border but with Ron Paul on Iraq. Sorry, no more room in the flying saucer.

Hucklebee? He’s kinda funny except when he sets rapists free to go to Missouri to kill people.

Yeah, blame Dick Morris for Fred’s sorted history. Defending lobbyists who chose scum for clients is the issue.

First of all, FTD only has a sordid history in your mind. If you find scum there, it’s not his fault.

Secondly, read again my 12:19 a.m. post. The issue is lobbying and representation. I think I did a fair job of clarifying the issue and explaining the function of lobbyists in government, and the lawyer’s ethical obligation to fairly represent his clients.

If you cannot or will not understand that, then it’s, again, your fault. Not FDT’s.

Nighty-night. My project is finished and I’m off to la-la land.

I wonder if you are actually going to be shocked when you get banned from HotAir.

A dictator.
Against asbestos victims.
In favor of abortion rights group.
In favor of a failed big government power plant.

None are conservative issues. Fred chose money over principle. All those he lobbied for had more money than those he lobbied against. Those he lobbied against were basically victims of his clients.

So yeah, keep defending Fred’s lobbying. It’ll be easier to open your eyes when you watch the country reject Fred for his scumbag ways.

Alan Fabian, a corporate executive from Cockeysville, Maryland, is one of Mitt Romney’s most important bundlers – a former George W. Bush “Ranger” (meaning he collected over $200,000 for Dubya’s campaign), now helping to gather contributions for the Romney campaign. Chris Cillizza calls these top-level bundlers “whales,” and if you scroll down, you’ll see Fabian’s name listed.

He’s also, according to Federal prosecutors in Maryland, a big-time fraudster:

A federal grand jury indicted a corporate executive who allegedly ran a scheme to make $32 million in false purchases of computer equipment, spending the money instead on beach real estate and private jet travel, prosecutors said Thursday.

Alan B. Fabian, 43, of Cockeysville, is charged in a 23-count indictment with mail fraud, money laundering, bankruptcy fraud, perjury and obstruction of justice. The grand jury handed up the indictment Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Baltimore and it was unsealed Thursday.

“Run away! Run away!!!!”

csdeven on September 12, 2007 at 12:09 AM

More like, casually saunter. Running suggests fear; sauntering suggests boredom.

Dick Morris is a Clinton “insider”, and he is also a Fred “insider”. He has worked for the Clinton’s and Fred (and many other political figures) at different times in his career.

Now perhaps you would like to dispute Morris’ arguments on their merits instead of just shooting the messenger.

Goodnight all.

Buy Danish on September 11, 2007 at 11:41 PM

Oh, good grief. Maybe I should have said a Clinton Adviser during the Clinton administration. If he advised FTD on anything during this presidential run, I’d be surprised.

Secondly, most all of that is 15 plus years old.

Third, Papa Bear (Bill O’Reilly) laughed right in his face when he tried to make the connection last time he was on the Factor.

Fourth, being a lawyer and a lobbyist is neither illegal nor unethical. One represents clients, not adopts their positions. Representation ensures due process.

Fifth, lobbying is part and parcel of how our government workds. There is no way in the world for any congressman to have a large enough staff to enable him or her to understand each of the very complex issues that come up regarding medicine, transportation, education, insurance, insurance reform, the judiciary, on and on and on. Lobbyists ensure that information from the private sector, where there are acknowledged experts, flows from the experts to the Congress.

If Congress stopped lobbying altogether, maybe it wouldn’t be a bad thing, and maybe they’d stop making so many laws. But as long as they feel they must make new legislation all the dang time, I, for one, feel better knowing that they have some inkling what they’re either proposing or voting upon.

Dick Morris is just slinging effluvia onto the stage in hopes that it will get him noticed. It won’t stick because it’s nonsense. A lawyer should never be held accountable for his client’s point of view. Only ensuring that his client’s point of view is heard in a fair manner.

O/T What’s “Buy Danish” mean? Just curious. I always have wondered whether it means products from Denmark or pastry. Personally, I prefer the pastry. :)

jaime on September 12, 2007 at 12:06 AM

Follow the reporters links and prove your claim. I already have and I know you cannot. But you wont, will you? You already know that in the WTC fire, fire can’t melt steel.

Bwahahahahahahaa!!!!!!!

Tennman on September 11, 2007 at 11:59 PM

Bwahahahahaha!!!

“Run away! Run away!!!!”

csdeven on September 11, 2007 at 11:43 PM

But Internet queries reveal connections between the site and Warren Tompkins, a South Carolina political consultant hired by Mr. Romney, and Terry Sullivan, Mr. Romney’s South Carolina state director.

[The] anti-Fred Thompson Web site that was taken down today after reporters began to make inquiries about it.

Seriously, you’re starting to sound like a troofer.

csdeven on September 11, 2007 at 11:46 PM

Why should I? They are not important, nor are they a true representation of reality. To give them attention and time at this point gives you legitimacy. And you know darn well we’ve had this conversation many times before on each and every point you’ve made.

So, no, I’m not playing with you on this one. Besides, I have to get a project out tonight still and don’t have the time.

Later, Gator

I for one cannot just let his errors pass without responding, and if he thinks that is “persecution” or a sign that I am “intoxicated” then so be it.
Buy Danish on September 11, 2007 at 11:41 PM

Friend Buy Danish, I could be wrong, but I don’t think sonnyspats1 had you in mind for the ‘intoxicated’ remark.

I for one am growing very weary of the poor quality of debate and rhetoric on display lately here on HotAir. That’s not in any way aimed at you. Lately the discourse here is closer to kos, huffpo, or du. I’d prefer to see things much more civil and respectful.

The endless slurs childish name-calling lowers the quality of an otherwise outstanding source of news and information.