Jaibones on September 10, 2007 at 11:23 AM

I take it that the crux of the matter is that under this law (as in all things), employers will focus their efforts in areas that will most likely pay the highest dividends. If it’s more likely that your blond, English-speaking employees are citizens than your ‘brown-skinned’ no-habla employees are, they’re probably not going to put as much effort into checking Sven’s background as they are Juan’s background.

But really, it’s simple…if Juan isn’t illegal, he has nothing to fear from his employer verifying his citizenship. If he feels unduly put upon because of this, then to fix ‘injustice’ and claims of ‘discrimination,’ a lawsuit will have to make his employer check the backgrounds of Sven and all the other employees, not get the law overturned. After all, the law says nothing about a person’s race, so it itself cannot be racist or discriminatory. Selective enforcement of it, however, can be. That’s no reason to not have a law that we need, though.

Actually, a law that threatens employers with suspension of their busiess licenses for hiring or employing illegal aliens but does not require that all current employees be checked gives the employers an incentive to discriminate on the basis of race or apparent national origin, by placing an extra burden on the employees who they might suspect are here illegally. The subjective nature of the decision, rather than requiring that all current employees be checked in the same way, leaves it open for challenge on due process grounds.

Big S on September 9, 2007 at 9:51 PM

Try again, in English. That gobbledegook was meaningless.

A law that penalizes businesses severely for employing illegal aliens doesn’t in any way relieve the business from “requiring that all current employees be checked in the same way”. What are you talking about?

Either the employees are illegal or they are not. If you’re worried that a landscaping company in Fountain Hills will be getting away with hiring lots of illegal alien blond, blue eyed polish guys because they “don’t have to check them” then you’re an idiot. Who said they don’t have to check them?

This is just a bunch of liberal hand-wringing. If you employ people, then you need a system of verifying citizenship to a great degree of certainty. For all employees.

What’s the mystery and why does this somehow discriminate against “brown” people?

See for yourself in this video:(H/T: Hot air)http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/09/video-dobbs-unloads-on-race-baiting-amnesty-shill-over-new-arizona-immigration-law/…

I agree with what you are saying. In fact, I think the change to the law will likely be made in response to a lawsuit (they have a tendency to pop up in situations likel this.)

However, as others have pointed out, employers will still be required to abide by other employment and discrimination laws while ensuring that they are in compliance with the new law. If they lay off all of their employees with Hispanic characteristics without verifying their status through the new system, they will be opening themselves up to a lawsuit if they terminate a legal employee accidentally. Likewise, if they fail to verify the status of employees who might, for example, have a European accent, they risk violation of the new law if they’re later found to be here illegally. Employees who’ve been in this country illegally for many years might speak perfect English, so by failing to eventually test everybody, employers are taking a risk.

Employers who are concerned about being in compliance with employment laws are going to do the right thing regardless. I suspect that the reason the law doesn’t require all workers to be verified, (assuming this information is accurate), is to avoid overloading the new verification system.

Big S, could you please explain how verification of all new employees hired after a certain date can lead to discrimination?

FloatingRock on September 9, 2007 at 10:56 PM

Sure.

The law seems to take care of the new employees without leaving room for discrimination, and on that level, I agree with it. However, the law also penalizes businesses that currently employ individuals hired before the law takes effect, if they happen to turn out to be illegal. Therefore, the responsibility is placed on the employer to make a subjective judgement as to whether or not their current employees may or may not be illegal aliens, and subsequently on the government to determine if those judgements were in good faith. Such laws will likely lead to different de facto standards of proof for employees with apparent Hispanic background. Because of this, I support mandatory verification of employees’ status regardless of when and where they were hired.

FloatingRock on September 9, 2007 at 10:56 PM

They CAN’T. They have NOTHING other than “Racist!!!” That is their game. And it’s beyond easy to defeat. But it will require a pair of balls. And the repub party has been neutered…

Tell La Raza.

Go Lou D.!

Let me explain how they gain those positions. People vote for them because they are the same race as them, not because they are qualified.

Tim Burton on September 9, 2007 at 9:22 PM

I don’t completely agree with this statement. Levying this charge against dems leaves Republicans open to the same charge.

By and large, I believe that people take the time to vote for the person whom they feel is most qualified.

Obviously, ethnicity, culture and race allegiance are a net plus in some voters’ minds. But I think by calling democratic voters racist, we leave ourselves open to the reciprocal charge – that we vote against candidates because of their race.

Racism seems to infect people across the political spectrum.

If you’re not a lawyer, you should be. Only a lawyer could make something straightforward sound so convoluted.

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 9:59 PM

Actually, my quarrel with the law is that it’s not straightforward enough. If all employees had to be checked, regardless of when they were hired and by whom, there could be no complaint about discrimination.

If you’re not a lawyer, you should be. Only a lawyer could make something straightforward sound so convoluted.

Bawawawawawawawawa!!

Thanks for the laugh, I needed that!

Big S on September 9, 2007 at 9:51 PM

If you’re not a lawyer, you should be. Only a lawyer could make something straightforward sound so convoluted.

Familiarize yourself with the blizzard of local, state, and Federal laws and employment regulations that make it suicidal to discriminate on the basis of race, and then rethink your comment.

Knuckleheads like you make possible the environment we have in this country, where even the most basic attempts to control the flood of illegal aliens is met with some Gallardo putz crying “racism!” Get your head out of your arse; no, Gallardo does not have a “point”, nor a brain.

Jaibones on September 9, 2007 at 9:36 PM

Actually, a law that threatens employers with suspension of their busiess licenses for hiring or employing illegal aliens but does not require that all current employees be checked gives the employers an incentive to discriminate on the basis of race or apparent national origin, by placing an extra burden on the employees who they might suspect are here illegally. The subjective nature of the decision, rather than requiring that all current employees be checked in the same way, leaves it open for challenge on due process grounds.

People vote for them because they are the same race as them, not because they are qualified.

Tim Burton on September 9, 2007 at 9:22 PM

That’s exactly how we got Mayor Antonio Viva-Reconquista.

I don’t know whether the AZ law requires employers to check all employees or potential employees in the same way. If it does so, fine, but if not, Gallardo has a point.

Big S on September 9, 2007 at 7:04 PM

Idiotic post, Big S. Complete, fu*king waste of time.

Familiarize yourself with the blizzard of local, state, and Federal laws and employment regulations that make it suicidal to discriminate on the basis of race, and then rethink your comment.

Knuckleheads like you make possible the environment we have in this country, where even the most basic attempts to control the flood of illegal aliens is met with some Gallardo putz crying “racism!” Get your head out of your arse; no, Gallardo does not have a “point”, nor a brain.

Thank You Lou Dobbs.
Scary that people of Gallardo’s intellect gain the positions that they do…ugh..

bridgetown on September 9, 2007 at 12:56 PM

Let me explain how they gain those positions. People vote for them because they are the same race as them, not because they are qualified.

I’m glad we agree on this. If all of the loopholes were closed, and the employee verification were to be completely comprehensive, it would not only work more effectively and efficiently, but we would be able to put an end to the arguments over whether or not the Constitutional requirement of due process is met. While some lefty types like to invoke “racism”, it is the fact that such gray areas are left in the law that allows them to do so. Not all of their arguments are completely without merit, although they tend to exaggerate them quite a bit.

“I’m for enforcing immigration laws and border security, but I’m against any and all measure that may affect somenoe that looks like me, even if they are here illegally, because loyalty to “la raza” comes before loyalty to the USA.”

Thank you.