Quote of the day

posted at 10:30 pm on September 9, 2007 by Allahpundit

“Clinton’s prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or ‘the Family’), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to ‘spiritual war’ on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship’s only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has ‘made a fetish of being invisible,’ former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God’s plan…

Senator Brownback understood the temptation. He used to hate Clinton so much, he told us, that the hate hurt. Then came the Clintons’ 1994 National Prayer Breakfast appearance with Mother Teresa, who upbraided the couple for their pro-choice views. Bill made no attempt to conceal his anger, but Hillary took it and smiled. Brownback remembers thinking, ‘Now, there’s gotta be a great lesson here.’ He didn’t know what it was until Clinton got to the Senate and joined him in supporting DeLay’s Day of Reconciliation resolution following the 2000 election, a proposal described by its backers as a call to ‘pray for our leaders.’ Now, Brownback considers Clinton ‘a beautiful child of the living God.’”

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First Hsu and now her prayer group. Is no Clinton secret sacred anymore?

Dusty on September 9, 2007 at 11:03 PM

*BARF*

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 11:04 PM

Why “barf”?

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:04 PM

glad my faith doesn’t bother with such a moronic blind version of forgiveness

Defector01 on September 9, 2007 at 11:07 PM

Hey. If Hillary believes people get positions of power because it’s God’s will, does that mean Bush isn’t crazy? Or Hillary is?

NellE on September 9, 2007 at 11:07 PM

Barf because Hillary does everything for only one reason. This included. IMO, of course.

Connie on September 9, 2007 at 11:08 PM

Brownback is a first class moron. Clinton is the biggest Congressional supporter of murdering unborn babies (and giving tax dollars to Planned Parenthood to let them do it).

Hillary took the criticism and smiled because she doesn’t believe in God at all, she only believes in Power.

Sydney Carton on September 9, 2007 at 11:10 PM

Why “barf”?

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:04 PM

Because the very notion that this lying conniving turdette’s ‘faith’ is anything more than a sham is seriously nauseating.

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 11:12 PM

Hillary is aiming for that possible ten or twelve percent of values voters who will not vote for Rudy as a matter of principle.

Dork B. on September 9, 2007 at 11:15 PM

Like Hitchens said: once again we see how the Christians love each other.

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Blech. I’m sorry, I know I’m supposed to be a good christian and nod approvingly and take this as a teachable moment, but Clinton is an authoritarian Socialist, and I’m an anti-Nanny State conservative before anything else, and I can’t not despise her.

Bad Candy on September 9, 2007 at 11:18 PM

More like expose those who would confuse and confound Allah. bible talks about that as well.

CTDeLude on September 9, 2007 at 11:19 PM

Apparently some of you are surprised at the bottom-feeding depths Hillary will sink to. Me? Not so much. Why should anyone believe anything is sacred to her?

thedecider on September 9, 2007 at 11:19 PM

Why “barf”?
Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:04 PM

Because Brownback is a fool?

Buy Danish on September 9, 2007 at 11:20 PM

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:16 PM

I trust that’s a tongue-in-cheek comment. “Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing” and all that. We’ve been warned.

thedecider on September 9, 2007 at 11:21 PM

Christians do not have to have a personal liking for everyone to love mankind in general. I could think you are a horrible person but still love you as one of God’s children.

Connie on September 9, 2007 at 11:21 PM

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Jesus.

Example.

“I believe there is no God and that we should be able to rape children”

Do you agree with this comment AP? Of course not.
Then do you believe there is a God? No.
Is that cause for others to say, “Again we see how divided and un-atheistic atheists are.”

VolMagic on September 9, 2007 at 11:22 PM

Allah, you should know better than to troll your own site.

Lee on September 9, 2007 at 11:23 PM

I have Christian love for Hillary, but I am suspicious of her motives. I never really considered her proffessed faith genuine, nor her husband’s. I’m not a hater!

Dork B. on September 9, 2007 at 11:23 PM

Allah, you should know better than to troll your own site.

I’m not trolling the site. I just don’t think it’s necessary to sneer at the woman’s faith. You have no reason to believe she’s not sincere.

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:25 PM

Like Hitchens said: once again we see how the Christians love each other.

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Defending American liberty from people like Hillary is the most Christian thing a person could do.

Bad Candy on September 9, 2007 at 11:26 PM

I don’t see a lot of Fruit on display there.

Dork B. on September 9, 2007 at 11:26 PM

“Ahh ain’t noways tired…”

OK, I’m convinced.

AtomicAmish on September 9, 2007 at 11:28 PM

I just don’t think it’s necessary to sneer at the woman’s faith.

once again we see how the Christians love each other.

But you do think it’s necessary to sneer at Christians and Christianity.

That’s a troll on Hotair. On Daily Kos, not so much.

jihadwatcher on September 9, 2007 at 11:32 PM

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Let’s look at this realistically. Christianity isn’t one big Kumbaya sing-along love fest. God has never asked us to set aside our intellect when it comes to Christian love. On the contrary, He warns us to be discerning in how we relate to others. Not everyone who claims to be a believer is one.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:15-23;&version=31;

Matthew 7:15-23
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

IMH(Christian)O, the fruit in Hillary’s life exposes here as the fraud she is.

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 11:32 PM

here=her

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 11:35 PM

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 11:32 PM

Very well stated. I’m not buying her “faith” either on the grounds there is nothing to show for it – either politically, or personally.

thedecider on September 9, 2007 at 11:38 PM

But you do think it’s necessary to sneer at Christians and Christianity.

And you sneer back at atheism. What I don’t do is accuse you or anyone else of being insincere in their belief, which is exactly what some of you are doing now to Hillary.

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:42 PM

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 11:32 PM

Although I’d be inclined to approach this whole thing more timidly than by barfing, you took the words right out of my mouth there, infidel.

pifactorial on September 9, 2007 at 11:43 PM

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:42 PM

Not me, I’m not questioning her faith, I am however questioning her atrocious judgement…well, not so much questioning as recognizing.

Bad Candy on September 9, 2007 at 11:46 PM

Oh, and I don’t sneer at atheism unless its provoked.

Bad Candy on September 9, 2007 at 11:47 PM

Ok AP.
Perhaps you think my comparison childish. Perhaps you think it is stupid. Obviously you see it as below response.
So how about this:

You crap on the Christians on this site becasue they don’t automatically fawn over somone who, to you at least, is nominally Christian.

Lets flip it. Now, atheism is, by default, a humanistic belief. If there is no God and no afterlife, the only way to achieve moral superiority is to be as benevolent to all humans as you can possibly be.

Why, then, are you so mean to Geraoldo? Why the antagonism to KP? Why have such contempt for people who believe in God and an afterlife?

Clearly we can see that the great humanism of atheism is a crock and atheists hate other people as much as theists do.

Reply oh great and wise AP? Or did I jsut blow your freaking mind???

VolMagic on September 9, 2007 at 11:49 PM

Matthew 22:21

Big S on September 9, 2007 at 11:52 PM

People who hold up Hitchens as a hero because of his extreme hatred of Christians really shouldn’t be criticizing those who have the right to agree or not agree if someone’s behavior reflects Christian beliefs.

Rose on September 9, 2007 at 11:54 PM

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:42 PM

Personally, I trust an honest atheist far more than a phony Christian.

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 11:54 PM

Taking a closer look at the MotherJones site, you’ll find a number of left-leaning, and anti-Bush articles. It’s therefore not surprising to see a “praise-piece” (pardon the pun) on Hillary.

thedecider on September 9, 2007 at 11:55 PM

IMHO, I do not think that ANY of us have a right to question the validity of anyone else’s faith. I may not agree with their politics, but I do not feel I have the right to question their faith.

mimi1220 on September 9, 2007 at 11:58 PM

All I’m saying is that I have more reason to be cynical and assume that it’s a shrewd poilitcal strategy. I guess that’s how I feel about all politicians, but especially liberal ones.

Dork B. on September 9, 2007 at 11:59 PM

VolMagic on September 9, 2007 at 11:49 PM

I think you’re kidding but I’m not sure. In case not, who is it that the Christians should be “fawning over” but aren’t that’s causing me to crap on them? Hillary? I don’t expect anyone to fawn; I was kind of expecting, “well, at least she has one good quality.” Not even that, though, eh?

As for this, “If there is no God and no afterlife, the only way to achieve moral superiority is to be as benevolent to all humans as you can possibly be,” it’s so odd that I don’t know how to respond. I’m not trying to achieve “moral superiority.” But compared to anyone who’d dump on Hillary reflexively for her faith even when you’re getting a bipartisan testatment to her true belief, I’ll take my chances.

Allahpundit on September 10, 2007 at 12:00 AM

We don’t know what is in other people’s hearts but we do see their actions. If I did not know that Hillary claimed to be a Christian I would never have thought that she was by her votes and her words. These are not hidden in her heart. They are there for everyone to see.

Rose on September 10, 2007 at 12:01 AM

Don’t dump on Allah folks. These religious threads drive up traffic and we all want this site to stay around as long as possible. Debate the issue without killing the messenger. The article is a legit news story whether you agree with the authors or not. Take your anger out on them.

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 12:06 AM

mimi1220 on September 9, 2007 at 11:58 PM

It’s certainly not fair to go up to someone and tell them “you don’t believe what you say you believe”, or to claim to be speaking for God regarding His judgment of them. These are things that only they and God can know for sure.

It is, though, necessary and biblical to discern what’s in a person’s heart by their actions. If Giuliani went around blowing up buildings, we wouldn’t believe he was anti-terrorist. If a supposed follower of God refuses to abandon, or encourages others to live, a life contrary to God’s nature, how can we accept them as genuine?

pifactorial on September 10, 2007 at 12:07 AM

It would appear that AP threw the first stone.

Rose on September 10, 2007 at 12:08 AM

I view everything she does as politically motivated. I don’t automatically accept someone’s profession as a matter of respect. In fact, there are a lot of people who claim to be true believers who give the rest of us a bad name. I’m not accusing HC of that, but I’m not obligated to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Dork B. on September 10, 2007 at 12:10 AM

I don’t expect anyone to fawn; I was kind of expecting, “well, at least she has one good quality.” Not even that, though, eh?

Allahpundit on September 10, 2007 at 12:00 AM

I’m struggling with this, I know I should feel that way, but I can’t…

Bad Candy on September 10, 2007 at 12:13 AM

I just don’t think it’s necessary to sneer at the woman’s faith. You have no reason to believe she’s not sincere.

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:25 PM

A question for Hillary that we will never hear from the press is “Are you born again?” If her faith is genuine, she will not hesitate to answer that question in the positive and state that Jesus is her Lord and Savior.

That being said, even if she is born again and a “good Christian,” that is not enough to make me vote for her. Her socalistic policies and positions nullify any positive she gains from being a Christian. And Mr. Hsu et al. is way too much baggage to be carrying into the White House.

Mallard T. Drake on September 10, 2007 at 12:15 AM

I think you’d have a better chance of convincing me that Mother Theresa was an atheist, to bring up Hitchens.

Dork B. on September 10, 2007 at 12:16 AM

Dork B. on September 10, 2007 at 12:10 AM

I do too. It seems her entire public life has been about power and politics. Who knows what she believes on a personal level, and the fact we don’t really know says a lot about whatever faith she supposedly has. Does anyone question the faith of Billy Graham? Granted, he’s an exceptional case, but also a modern day role model for someone who’s faith you never have to question, or wonder if it is for real. You’re not shocked to discover he’s the real deal. Why does Hillary’s faith surprise us? Because it has not been publicly expressed in her public speeches and politics despite the numerous occasions she has spoken in public. If it were for real – if it were something she felt as passionate about as this article would have us believe, then why is it just now coming into the open after all these many years? It’s a valid question many on this blog are asking and that doesn’t make them hypocrites.

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 12:19 AM

mimi1220 on September 9, 2007 at 11:58 PM

Would you buy a used car from Hillary?

This is not just a question of someone’s faith, this is an issue of character. This is someone who is asking us to trust her with the highest position in this nation based on her character. Faith is ‘supposed’ to infuence a person’s character for the better. Do the math. Does 2+2=4 in this case? I don’t think so. I think I’ll buy my car somewhere else.

infidel4life on September 10, 2007 at 12:19 AM

Like Hitchens said: once again we see how the Christians love each other.

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:16 PM

The Clintons are not Christians in spite of what they may claim.

1 John 2:4

You have no reason to believe she’s not sincere.

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:25 PM

Since actions speak louder than words, we have every reason not to believe in her sincerity.

Titus 1:16

.

GT on September 10, 2007 at 12:20 AM

who is it that the Christians should be “fawning over” but aren’t that’s causing me to crap on them? Hillary? I don’t expect anyone to fawn; I was kind of expecting, “well, at least she has one good quality.” Not even that, though, eh?

Well…

Like Hitchens said: once again we see how the Christians love each other.

When you quote Hitch, it’s almost always to crap on Christians.

As for this, “If there is no God and no afterlife, the only way to achieve moral superiority is to be as benevolent to all humans as you can possibly be,” it’s so odd that I don’t know how to respond. I’m not trying to achieve “moral superiority.”

Allahpundit on September 10, 2007 at 12:00 AM

Maybe moral superiority is the wrong phrase.
What does it mean for an atheist to be moral?
Do you think morality is a human invention? If so, who writes the rules? Who says what is and is not moral? Do you have to decide it for yourself? If so, how do you arrive at your answers? Logic?
What is the logical response to “What is moral”?
I would say the Golden Rule: Treat others as you would like to be treated.
If that is the case, then how can you ever make fun of other people, KP, denigrate other people, Geraldo, and sneer at other people, Christians?

This is getting a little (a lot) out of my league, but I was trying to point out that you seem more than happy to point out the supposed hypocrasy of Christians not loving other Christians. Well, what kind of code do you follow to determine wether other people are good, moral people or not. Or do you consider yourself a moral person at all?

VolMagic on September 10, 2007 at 12:20 AM

And you sneer back at atheism.

YOu say that like that is a bad thing. So you admit, you do sneer at Christianity. I have no problem admitting I sneer at atheism. And may I remind you that Hillary Clinton is imfamous for being insincere about everything, so why shouldn’t we sneer at her for this? You make it sound as if Hillary is new to the concept of insincerity for the purposes of political advancement. You know we know better than that, but you play that card anyway.

Your loathing of Christianity is the reason why you defend Hillary Clinton in this instance, not out of any sense of fair play. All of your other posts about her are sneers, but in this case, only in this case, do you suggest that she not be sneered at, lest it show, as your purport, that Christians are hypocrits – hypocrits for not accepting Hillary’s facade at face value.

Really, AP, that is right off of the Daily Kos webpages. This is the problem with atheism. It is a belief that pushes anyone who holds it, to the Left, so that, like Osama reading his script, it sounds like it should be emanating from the Left.

If you think Christianity is such a bad influence, why don’t you go and live in a non-Christian country away from other Christians and blog there. Me thinks you won’t like it. Unless, of course, you want to go live in Japan with the robots. But even there, you will have to put with Buddhists, Shintos, and really, really, small apartments.

jihadwatcher on September 10, 2007 at 12:22 AM

You know AP, whenever you post anything religious it is almost impossible for people to read it any other way than you somehow “sneering” at the non-athiest, or trolling for readers/traffic. No fault of yours really, just the nature of your position as a headliner combined with your religious beliefs.

Maybe for a safer strategy you could email me directly, my email is: l********@*****.com. I would be happy to discuss any of your musings or whatever, all safe non-judgmental, well reasoned debate, free of charge. I promise you’ll feel better… unless you really like this head bumper debate style better.

Mcguyver on September 10, 2007 at 12:26 AM

Would you buy a used car from Hillary?

infidel4life on September 10, 2007 at 12:19 AM

Comrade, you don’t buy cars from Hillary, she gives them to each according to their need.

Bad Candy on September 10, 2007 at 12:29 AM

VolMagic on September 10, 2007 at 12:20 AM
VolMagic on September 9, 2007 at 11:49 PM

P.S. I was joking. But I did blow your freaking mind!!!

VolMagic on September 10, 2007 at 12:30 AM

Comrade, you don’t buy cars from Hillary, she gives them to each according to their need.

Bad Candy on September 10, 2007 at 12:29 AM

HAHAHAHA!

Dork B. on September 10, 2007 at 12:30 AM

Folks, please…as Christians you have been taught that your faith will be challenged. Stopping dumping on Allah as you do not have the power to change hearts and minds. However, you know the One who does. Prayer and love work far better than debates originating from hurt feelings or offended personalities. Tell our Allah you love him anyway and leave it alone. As for the article Allah linked, how many of you actually read it? You should. You should also review the home page so you’ll discover the politics of the authors who post there. It might give you a broader picture of what’s really going on here.

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 12:32 AM

Hillary is so insincere, she can’t even smile honestly. All her smiles are tight, “cheese-style” smiles. All her laughs are nervous laughs. All her jokes are scripted. And when she walks, she walks with her nose in the air. I have rarely seen anyone so artificial, cold, and repressed as her. Nor have I seen someone so calculating in her politics as to structure her whole life, from the very beginning, around one simple goal: become America’s first female president. Full stop.

Religion?

She has the religion of a Marx, or a Stalin.

jihadwatcher on September 10, 2007 at 12:37 AM

If you buy for one nano second this heaping pile of donkey crap then you deserve Hillary. Cmon first it’s a secret group that she has joined 15 years ago. huh? secret? Oh and she has prayer warriors? uh let me guess ok how about the San Francisco Scrotum Man. Les see and this secret is released now that Mr hsu has come to light? Hmm ok. But I thought two years ago political pundits predicted you would make a play for the evangelicals. You might get a group of fakers to lead another bunch of confused individuals in limited numbers Hill but real Christians are not stupid enough to be fooled by this ridiculous claim. Unless of course you performed some kind of miracle like make Mr. hsu go away or how about making Robert’Buzz’Patterson’s book Dereliction of Duty and his doing the talk show circuit disappear. Now that would be a miracle.

sonnyspats1 on September 10, 2007 at 12:37 AM

I’ll admit plainly that I have mixed views on Hillary Clinton.

I believe her husband is or was evil — probably less so as he ages, hormones subsides, and he learns about different things. I still think he has sociopathic tendencies.

Hillary, not so much. I think she was a leftist radical, particularly in her youth, less so now. How much less (it may not be much at all) is the question.

She’s pro-choice and this pains me greatly.

I think she’s an intelligent women and open to learning. She’s open-minded and improves her knowledge base with time.

I have no idea whether she is genuinely Christian or not, but I do not discount the idea out of hand. I also think she may be spiritually dark, negative… I just don’t know.

I do think there’s a possibility she could make a good Democratic president with time. If I had to pick from their current field, it would definitely be her.

Yes, I want a Republican to win and a Hillary Clinton presidency may be a disaster. Yet I’m not sold on the certainty that it would be.

You can start throwing stones now.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 12:38 AM

And you sneer back at atheism.

Obviously a Christian can sneer back at atheism and vice versa. It just makes sense.

If you BELIEVE there is a God then the idea — and atheism describes the idea, not the people — of atheism is obviously something you’d be derisive of.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 12:40 AM

Comrade, you don’t buy cars from Hillary, she gives them to each according to their need.

Bad Candy on September 10, 2007 at 12:29 AM

In that case I’ll take the bus.
;-)

infidel4life on September 10, 2007 at 12:42 AM

Personally, I trust an honest atheist far more than a phony Christian.

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 11:54 PM

Amen to that brother! Jim Jones was a prime example. Abe Lincolns words still ring true. You can fool some of the people blah blah blah.

sonnyspats1 on September 10, 2007 at 12:43 AM

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 12:38 AM

No matter the original politics of a presidential candidate, they almost all run to the center (left or right) once the polls and media stories start coming out. So what makes a great president? Someone who is inspired to lead by conviction and experience despite the polls, and definitely in spite of what the popular media thinks of them. Historically, these people have been extremely rare and typically very much disliked during their presidency.

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 12:44 AM

Like Hitchens said: once again we see how the Christians love each other.

Allahpundit, most Christians, and some of us who like myself are not Christians, consider fetuses babies.

Literally babies. Human beings.

We consider killing them to be murder. Not symbolically. Actually.

As bad as the holocaust in World War 2 and, by a small measure, worse than slavery.

Slavery was totally awful… but allowed life after a fashion, although no freedom and much abuse.

Abortion snuffs out all life and doesn’t even allow that first gasp of air.

So I can understand how a Christian who feels this way would be disdainful in the extreme of a person who claims to be a Christian, but supports what we see as murdering babies: equal again to the holocaust and slightly worse than slavery.

Your snide remark in this case wasn’t completely thought through. Some Christians love anyway, even the most evil amongst us.

While I’m not a Christian, I haven’t mastered the ability to love to such a great degree.

Now Hillary has spoken of reducing the numbers of abortions before although not through legislation per se, at least not that I’m aware of. This could easily be a dodge, an evil trick.

I hope she’s serious, however, because she is likely to be the next president of your country.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 12:53 AM

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 12:44 AM

Lincoln was hated as much or more than Bush is now.

The only thing that boosted his popularity was getting shot.

infidel4life on September 10, 2007 at 1:00 AM

Does anyone remember the first terrorist organization in the U.S.FALN? Clintons last official act was to grant clemency to the convicted members of this terrorist group. BRB

sonnyspats1 on September 10, 2007 at 1:01 AM

Bill Clinton.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:01 AM

Like Hitchens said: once again we see how the Christians love each other.

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Forgive me for not bothering to read all of the intervening comments, if any of what follows is repetitive of another in this thread.

The Bible says that by their fruits are people known. By her fruits, Hillary is no Christian. She is the epitome of a power-hungry Marxist. We all accept that she is not stupid, and is capable of reading an audience. Nationally, that means that her “best bet” is to have the appearance of a mainstream protestant religious affiliation. Therefore, she does. And of course, since her ONLY aim is power, she would take up with a group which founds itself on a supposition that power-seekers are the most Godly people alive.

She is a traitor to this nation’s history and its laws. She is no believer in repentance, redemption and forgiveness as presented in the Bible, as judged by her public actions. You and Hitchens both can just climb down off that particular high horse, it’s made of straw. Pardon the mixed metaphors.

Freelancer on September 10, 2007 at 1:06 AM

Christians Allah?

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:01 AM

No, Billary.

sonnyspats1 on September 10, 2007 at 1:08 AM

infidel4life on September 10, 2007 at 1:00 AM

Thanks infidel, that was my point exactly. Even Bush – love him or hate him – right or wrong – does not appear to pay any attention to polls and popular media. I still believe the man leads by his convictions. He’s not a typical Clintonesque media/polling shill as so many POTUS’s turn out to be. I probably won’t live long enough to see how history truly regards his presidency, but it is certain to be several degrees different from what is said about him today.

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 1:09 AM

sonnypats, I hope you’re not a Christian, because there is no theological justification for judging them as one person.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:12 AM

infidel4life on September 9, 2007 at 11:32 PM

Ahh, I see that at least one other did think the same re: Hillary’s “faith”.

Freelancer on September 10, 2007 at 1:12 AM

More FALN Bill Clinton Clemency

sonnyspats1 on September 10, 2007 at 1:14 AM

Oh, and just to clarify here, I was not in any way equating Bush to Lincoln. Just a drawing parallel between two unpopular wartime Presidents.

infidel4life on September 10, 2007 at 1:21 AM

Now Hillary has spoken of reducing the numbers of abortions before although not through legislation per se, at least not that I’m aware of.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 12:53 AM

Last year Hillary stated something to the effect that hopefully the time will come when the choice to opt for abortion will be less and less. To which Laura Ingraham responded, if abortion is a Constitutional right, why would the Dems want to limit the exercise of that right.

That shows the contradiction of the Dem’s and Hillary’s position: women should have the right to chose, but that choice is not a good one, but the government should be allowed to limit that choice, but hopefully they will come to a point where they will not make that choice. That is why they are so f**ked up on the issue.

Mallard T. Drake on September 10, 2007 at 1:24 AM

That should be: …but the government should NOT be allowed to limit that choice……

Mallard T. Drake on September 10, 2007 at 1:26 AM

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:12 AM

Yes, but there are times when criminals are tried together for crimes they committed together.

infidel4life on September 10, 2007 at 1:27 AM

More Hillary FALN

sonnyspats1 on September 10, 2007 at 1:28 AM

Mallard T. Drake, with all due respect, this shows sloppy logic from Laura Ingraham, which you haven’t caught.

Hillary could be lying. That I acknowledge.

But, and I do not accept that abortion is a right as defined in your constitution (or any right at all)…

It is not contradictory to say that X should be a right, but it’s a bad idea and the government wants to put in place policies where X happens less often.

An extreme example that illustrates the principle… divorce is allowed by law. But nothing stops the government from implementing friendly tax policy for married people and also reducing handouts, which tend to discourage marriage, making it more rewarding to be single and on the dole.

These policies would tend to reduce divorce, without eliminating nor outlawing it.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:31 AM

As for this, “If there is no God and no afterlife, the only way to achieve moral superiority is to be as benevolent to all humans as you can possibly be,” it’s so odd that I don’t know how to respond.

Allahpundit on September 10, 2007 at 12:00 AM

The truest test of character is what some would do if they thought that no one else would ever know.

MB4 on September 10, 2007 at 1:32 AM

Yes, but there are times when criminals are tried together for crimes they committed together.

I’ve never heard of a wife of a leader tried for “crimes” (completely within his power under your constitution in this case) committed by her husband — in any just society. Have you?

Your position here is extreme and indefensible. If such reasoning on any case ever came before the Supreme Court it would be a 9-0 decision against whatever it is you’re arguing.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:33 AM

Hillary could be lying. That I acknowledge.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:31 AM

Hillary lying?

Oh come on now. Perish the thought. I suppose that some folks are such big skeptics that they even think that she was lying when she said that she had no idea what Bill was up to with all those women.

MB4 on September 10, 2007 at 1:36 AM

MB4 on September 10, 2007 at 1:32 AM

Which only begs the question – where does common morality come from? What makes people choose the moral option over the immoral? What is immoral if there is no guide (such as taught to us by judeo-christian teaching throughout our history)? So, what would you do if you thought no one else was watching? The only guide to what is/is not acceptable in modern society is that which comes to us from Christian teaching. Eliminating that, anything goes.

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 1:36 AM

MB4, Hillary could also be telling the truth. She may not believe in making abortion illegal ála Ann Rice, but may be opposed to it anyway.

To me that seems contradictory, but I’ll admit it was what I once believed a long time ago.

I think abortion is so evil it has to be illegal. Yet… it could be Hillary is wrong here (it SHOULD be illegal) yet not lying.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:39 AM

So, what would you do if you thought no one else was watching?

Above all else, do no harm.

The only guide to what is/is not acceptable in modern society is that which comes to us from Christian teaching.

Frankly, that is absurd on it’s face.

MB4 on September 10, 2007 at 1:42 AM

The problem with Hillary and abortion is that she doesn’t want any restrictions. She voted against parental notification and voted against laws that didn’t allow another adult to take a minor across state lines. So if a minor wants an abortion and lives in a parental notification state, Hillary thinks it is acceptable for another adult to take the minor to a non parental notification state without the parents knowledge.

Rose on September 10, 2007 at 1:43 AM

thedecider, I’m not speaking for AP, I’m speaking for myself.

That’s a bunch of horse shit.

You’re totally wrong. One, biblically you’re wrong. Paul, some people do what is in the law, but don’t know the law or whatever, doesn’t that make their uncircumcision circumcision or some such.

That passage has always intrigued me.

But getting totally away from it. I am not a Christian. And my morality doesn’t decend from the Bible.

Leonidas, a hero of mine, saved Western Civilization in an epic battle, laying down his life alongside his men. This didn’t descend from Christianity although a long time later Jesus taught something similar.

There are a lot of good (and some bad) moral things in the Bible… but it’s not the end all and be all of morality.

Long before Judeo-Christian teaching there was morality.

Of many kinds. I could give a gazillion examples, but your point is so weak and nonsensical I’m not going to bother.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:43 AM

The only guide to what is/is not acceptable in modern society is that which comes to us from Christian teaching.

I think that Christ would consider that absurd.

MB4 on September 10, 2007 at 1:43 AM

Finally and most importantly FBI FALN

sonnyspats1 on September 10, 2007 at 1:44 AM

thedecider, I’m not speaking for AP, I’m speaking for myself.

That’s a bunch of horse sh*t.

You’re totally wrong. One, biblically you’re wrong. Paul, some people do what is in the law, but don’t know the law or whatever, doesn’t that make their uncircumcision circumcision or some such.

That passage has always intrigued me.

But getting totally away from it. I am not a Christian. And my morality doesn’t decend from the Bible.

Leonidas, a hero of mine, saved Western Civilization in an epic battle, laying down his life alongside his men. This didn’t descend from Christianity although a long time later Jesus taught something similar.

There are a lot of good (and some bad) moral things in the Bible… but it’s not the end all and be all of morality.

Long before Judeo-Christian teaching there was morality.

Of many kinds. I could give a gazillion examples, but your point is so weak and nonsensical I’m not going to bother.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:43 AM

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:44 AM

sonnypats, I hope you’re not a Christian, because there is no theological justification for judging them as one person.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:12 AM

blow it out your ass

sonnyspats1 on September 10, 2007 at 1:47 AM

Take it to the next level. Imagine John Lennon’s view in his song, “Imagine”: a world without religion. No ten commandments. No eternal reward or consequence. What would our world and modern society look like without any conviction brought to us by religion? If there was never anything taught to us that distinguished a moral right or wrong – where would this conviction come from? How would it have been established without some consequence? Would the primitive inhabitants of our world who evolved from apes (having evolved from bacteria in a primordial ooze) have the ability to recognize right from wrong without some context in which to place it? What would morality look like? Would modern society even exist and, if so, what would it look like? Let the atheists among us contemplate that and tell us.

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 1:51 AM

You have no reason to believe she’s not sincere.

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:25 PM

Oh I believe she is entirely sincere, however, that she is only helps prove how screwed up her ideology as contrasted by her religion really is.

It’s impossible to square her beliefs with her faith so she has to hedge her bets with supporting relationships and prayer breakfasts with pro choice and (in the real world) God discounting closet communism (remember Clinton’s Pastor who believed in totalitarian Christianity).

The truly scary part of hers like others liberal God worship is the delusion of an extremely contrasting and hypocritical churning mix of the scripture with liberal flights of fantasy.

So the question is, is she a phony because she manipulates reality, or is she not a phony because she actually believes in the alternate realm?

Speakup on September 10, 2007 at 1:52 AM

Mordecai Jones.

Limerick on September 10, 2007 at 1:54 AM

Long before Judeo-Christian teaching there was morality.

Of many kinds. I could give a gazillion examples, but your point is so weak and nonsensical I’m not going to bother.
Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:44 AM

Well, I think you should give examples for the less-learned among us (with apparently weak examples) – namely me.

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 1:54 AM

Mallard T. Drake, with all due respect, this shows sloppy logic from Laura Ingraham, which you haven’t caught.

Hillary could be lying. That I acknowledge.

But, and I do not accept that abortion is a right as defined in your constitution (or any right at all)…

It is not contradictory to say that X should be a right, but it’s a bad idea and the government wants to put in place policies where X happens less often.

Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:31 AM

The point LI was making was not that Hillary was lying, but that she was contradicting herself. What Hillary said is something that a right-to-lifer would say. They would acknowledge that abortion is a Constitutional right, but hopefully it will be excercised less and less as women chose not to have an abortion.

Hillary supports women’s right to choose and supports abortion as a Constitutional right that should not be overturned or repealed. Since the Dems support the Constitutional right to an abortion, why would they hope that this right, like any right, is not excercised.

At best, Hillary is pandering to both sides at the same time, at worst she is a hypocrite.

Mallard T. Drake on September 10, 2007 at 1:57 AM

Take it to the next level.

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 1:51 AM

Your “The only guide to what is/is not acceptable in modern society is that which comes to us from Christian teaching. Eliminating that, anything goes.” makes that rather pointless.

MB4 on September 10, 2007 at 1:57 AM

Why “barf”?

Allahpundit on September 9, 2007 at 11:04 PM

Because this is a clear example of Hillary “injecting” religion into her rhetoric. You actually think the woman who supports partial birth abortion gives a rip about Christianity? You think the woman who has turned lying and fakery into an art form respects and admires a religion where most of her activities are prohibited by a stone tablet sent by God himself?

Hillary Clinton is inarguably a child of God, God loves all his children -even the ones that act like Demon Spawn.

All this is really an example of is how easily Switchback is fooled. In Hillary’s village, everyone should be raising the children unless they’re in the womb, where they might as well be pond scum.

BKennedy on September 10, 2007 at 1:57 AM

Leonidas, a hero of mine, saved Western Civilization in an epic battle, laying down his life alongside his men.
Christoph on September 10, 2007 at 1:44 AM

One other thing, let us know what this quote has to do with morality?

thedecider on September 10, 2007 at 1:57 AM

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