Video: Luntz focus-groups the winner and loser of the debate
posted at 10:19 am on September 6, 2007 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | regular view
A little wrap up. There were two losers, actually, one of whom was there and one who wasn’t. The latter will hold his first official event at 3 p.m. today in Iowa with a 45-minute speech that should sound a lot like his campaign video from last night. I don’t know why he’s spending time there when he has no staff and trails far behind Mitt, unless it’s to pay the state the cursory respect needed to keep it in play for the general election if he’s nominated.
Politico runs through the reasons he can’t win, most of which conveniently come from rival campaigns. Exit question: Did you know “Fred” isn’t his real name? No foolin’.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages:
Reading between the lines, I see Frank Luntz’s hairpiece was a big loser.
JammieWearingFool on September 6, 2007 at 10:23 AM
I’m glad you posted this… I was dumbfounded when I saw this live last night that they unanimously said McCain won. What did all of these people see that I missed?
MT on September 6, 2007 at 10:23 AM
Better “Freddie” than “Obama”…
IntheNet on September 6, 2007 at 10:24 AM
McCain didn’t indicate he’s changing his stance. He reaffirmed his support for Graham and his amnesty.
Huckabee won, IMO. And I support Rudy.
Fred doesn’t have 14 months, as the one voter claimed. He has to make it past the primaries in 3 months.
amerpundit on September 6, 2007 at 10:33 AM
Well, we certainly can’t be votin’ for no hill billy what has a first name of Freddie!!!
VolMagic on September 6, 2007 at 10:33 AM
maybe it’s a s/n
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 10:35 AM
I’m not a part of focus group, but I was really surprised by this clip last night.
How could this debate have disappointed them? What were they expecting. This one was the best far and away. Chris Wallace and co did superb – asked real and at times diving questions. Were they looking for another love-fest? Must have been because they were moved by small compliments made to McCain.
Clearly Huckabee landed the best blows and he did it will calls to honor, so it leaves a sweet taste in the mouth. But McCain as the winner? And I didn’t see Rudy as the loser either, in fact I thought his answer on family was probably the best answer of the night considering the cards he’s holding. Mitt, I thought was the disappointment.
Spirit of 1776 on September 6, 2007 at 10:35 AM
sorry, forgot. his s/n is csdeven
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 10:36 AM
diving=dividing. excuse me
Spirit of 1776 on September 6, 2007 at 10:36 AM
I’m with the focus group. The debate was great, meaty even. The candidates weren’t so hot though.
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 10:37 AM
Duncan Hunter is the best candidate. I’m more convinced than ever. I don’t like any of the top 4 ‘media picks’. Did you hear Huckabee use Gingrich’s Fedex line? And Huckabee called people against amnesty ‘racists’ too.
Hunter built the fence in SD AND SOLVED THE PROBLEM, Romney said ‘I visited SD and they said the fence wasn’t working’. Nice to bash. But Hunter remained positive and didn’t resort to bashing anyone.
Hunter needs to be on this ticket somewhere. He needs to get more press.
ThackerAgency on September 6, 2007 at 10:38 AM
I can see why they liked McCain. I have wished many times recently that I could support the guy because he’s just an impressive human being, and he is a leader–like him or not, he just is. He’s confident, mature, experienced, hawkish, and genuinely loves this country. But we who pay attention know that he has multiple deal-breakers on his resume, and he did NOT change his stance on any of those last night. I’m even a tad impressed with his steadfastness; he’s principled and sticks to what he believes. Problem is, he’s wrong on several big issues, and he’s not budging. At least he acknowledged that the vast majority of the public disagrees with him about amnesty. I don’t know if I’ve heard him do that before.
aero on September 6, 2007 at 10:41 AM
yeah, he’s McArthur. Where’s Ike?
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 10:44 AM
As for the NH voters being miffed at Fred for skipping their debate–feh. NH and Iowa voters think every candidate has to spend 100 times more time in their states kissing their hineys to “earn” their votes. Heck, the rest of us would be glad if one of them showed up in our capital city for an hour or two sometime before the primary. Unfortunately for Fred, he probably will have to go kiss their hineys double-time now if he wants to get even a handful of votes there. Their attitude just annoys the crap out of me. They think they’re kingmakers, and that’s just not how our system should work.
aero on September 6, 2007 at 10:47 AM
Huckabee laying waste to Ron “I’ve got it, Letters of Marque” Paul
BohicaTwentyTwo on September 6, 2007 at 10:50 AM
The Politico piece is the usual hack garbage from them (think about the first GOP debate they hosted).
HA may now be a part of the “establishment” that is pro-Rudy, but I still believe the American people at large will not vote for a social liberal-Rudy give them nothing to identify with. There is no mirror. Most Americans do not have this fixation on New York or what it represents. I think Lynchburg, Tennessee reflects the values of most Americans, especially fly-over Rebublicans. There are two main branches of the Republican party. Rudy represents the pro-business, bagels and spaghetti, authoritarian rule wing, and Fred leads the pro-liberty, mom and apple pie, and rugged individual wing. Your choice between the two will probably be a reflection of your life experience.
AZCON on September 6, 2007 at 10:51 AM
Winners and losers: I don’t think anyone won, per se. Hunter impressed me and really caught my attention for the first time, but I wouldn’t say he won the debate. He did not dominate, which is what it would take to lift him out of the third tier. Rudy and Mitt were both disappointing. They didn’t screw up or commit any gaffes, but both were pretty hum-drum and repetitive I thought. And Rudy’s New York references did get a bit overbearing. I know that’s his executive experience is the most relevant thing on his resume to the job of POTUS, but it was a bit much even for me, and I like Rudy a lot. Huckabee was good as usual, especially with his “zingers,” but he fell of my Maybe List last week with his nanny state proposals. It would have been nice to see Fred at this debate, but I think his web announcement was very good and he won’t be hurt badly by skipping the NH debate (except perhaps in NH).
aero on September 6, 2007 at 10:56 AM
Hell hath no fury like the Paulies’ cyber-wrath. No doubt they’re turning the gunsights of their weirdness onto Huckabee’s camp….
John from OPFOR on September 6, 2007 at 11:02 AM
I like Hunter, but don’t forget that huge underground tunnel they found a couple years ago in SD. It was used for drugs and people smuggling. No telling how many more tunnels out there exist.
old adage, as long as their is incentive your not going to completely stop it though you can decrease immigration.
Actually the Socialist/Dems have the best plan to stop illegal immigration, which is via destroying our economy.
jp on September 6, 2007 at 11:03 AM
When the focus group started talking about Fred Thompson, I turned my approval knob all the way down.
frankj on September 6, 2007 at 11:04 AM
Love that.
And speaking as a lifelong NY’er, I agree. With the possible exception of Chicago, it is unlike any other place in the US, but so much like many places abroad (London, Hong Kong, etc.) So I agree that being the mayor of this peculiarly “non-American” American city wouldn’t particularly resonate with a lot of people.
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 11:13 AM
So the guy ended the segment by quoting 3 people who disagreed with Thompson on missing the debate and two that agreed — roughly equal to or perhaps exceeding Thompson’s actual support numbers — and he turned this into a great Thompson backlash?
Neat trick.
Christoph on September 6, 2007 at 11:18 AM
“Freddie” doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the chicken-pecking head thing he keeps doing in his commercial.
Tanya on September 6, 2007 at 11:33 AM
It didn’t stop the flow completely, but it did improve the quality of life for the residents of SD I don’t doubt. Without the fence, there would be no need for a tunnel. Like the song goes ‘Praise the Lord, but lock your door’. Sure they can always break a window and get in, but that doesn’t mean I don’t lock my door.
A fence in Israel reduced the suicide bombings there tremendously. Fences are around every jail because they work. Arguing that fences don’t work is not appropriate. They have found only a few more tunnels since they CLOSED that first one and the ones they have found recently were much more crude.
I agree that there has to be other things to stem the tide of illegal aliens. . . but a fence shows a good faith effort to start. What has Romney done for America today? Hunter raised the quality of life for SD residents with the fence.
ThackerAgency on September 6, 2007 at 11:33 AM
John McCain clearly won the debate that I saw. He handled himself in a presidential manner. His comments on Iraq, Iran and fiscal conservatism were right on target. His presence is such that Rudy Guiliani and Mike Huckabee both made approving comments towards John McCain.
I hold it against Fred Thompson that he sat with Leno instead of appearing at the debate.
Will someone please tell Ron Paul to get lost. He is a complete moron on foreign policy.
Phil Byler on September 6, 2007 at 11:38 AM
At least the desperate stupidity of Paul’s foreign policy got some exposure.
bj1126 on September 6, 2007 at 11:39 AM
Wow, what a bunch of whiney, self-important New Hampshireenos.
Darksean on September 6, 2007 at 11:50 AM
I’m not even a Thompson supporter, and I think Luntz went overboard on the fact that NH residents were angry that Thompson wasn’t there. Fine. He shows up at the next debate, and all is forgiven. They were pissed off for that one evening only.
A total non-issue.
asc85 on September 6, 2007 at 11:56 AM
A border fence will make immigration more manageable. While it may not stop all illegal immigration, it will allow for better control of border crossings. A fence will be better than no fence at all.
Nethicus on September 6, 2007 at 12:11 PM
I think people making such a big deal NOW about Thompson not being at debates or waiting to declare, and those saying that it’s “too late” are going to look pretty stupid in a couple of months.
DaveS on September 6, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Why don’t you just admit you are a ignorant racist redneck…
tommylotto on September 6, 2007 at 12:16 PM
Freddie? Fake truck, now fake name. What is next? Hairplugs?
tommylotto on September 6, 2007 at 12:17 PM
what was racist about this? How is it ignorant? The you call him a redneck??
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 12:25 PM
I thought Rudy spoke well about keeping our cards close to our chest re: Iran, while Romney’s reply made it clear he had no clue how to handle the issue. His international inexperience was glaringly obvious to me…you don’t have to be a DC insider, but you have to have some sense.
I loved Hunter & Tancredo last night, especially Tancredo’s “rule of law” comment. That resonnated with me, as I’ve yelled that same line quite a bit lately.
Miss_Anthrope on September 6, 2007 at 12:27 PM
Just my 2¢
Winner: Huckabee
Loser:Guillani
Time to leave the stage: McCain, Paul
Disappointment of the night: Too much time spent on the terrorism and Iraq and nothing on other topics such as economy, Social Security, Medicare, Taxes.
Best moment: Chris Wallace shooting back at Ron Paul on Iraq
LakeRuins on September 6, 2007 at 12:30 PM
Except for Paul, they all make the Dems look like they just got off the short-bus.
Griz on September 6, 2007 at 12:32 PM
oh, Jews and Italians. Went right over my head.
Will think about whether he meant that Jews and Italians are now part of a certain Republican constituency, or that Giuliani is just the candidate of the Catholics and Jooos.
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 12:33 PM
Yes, I was wondering if they even watched the same thing I watched.
reine.de.tout on September 6, 2007 at 12:40 PM
“So you think we should take our marching orders from al Qaeda?” That was a great line.
Tanya on September 6, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Well done. You’ve got the liberal elitist arrogant smug patter down; you’ve definitely got the name calling and unsupported slander down.
Now, randomly capitalize words, add extra punctuation, and misspell a few words… and throw in some grammatical errors and the quality of your writing will match the tone and content.
Saying that not all the U.S. can relate to New York, and those that can are mostly “big city” residents isn’t racist. Unless you know someone’s race based on where they live. Heck it’s not even surprising.
However, big city liberals certainly believe the rest of the nation ought to be putting them up on a pedestal and taking their opinion as gospel.
Why don’t you just admit that you’re a PC, elitist, smug, arrogant, lunatic fringe, liberal?
(See I can do the odd slanderous troll-like attack as well, they aren’t that difficult, but they don’t exactly promote dialog, discussion or understanding… they tend to shut down all of these)
gekkobear on September 6, 2007 at 12:49 PM
Well Fred! did just spend the previous day snubbing a FoxNews debate and humiliating a recently hired FoxNews producer, so you reap what you sow.
pedestrian on September 6, 2007 at 12:58 PM
AZCON on September 6, 2007 at 10:51 AM
Is that code for Jews and Italians?
There’s a reason Rudy keeps talking about New York. He was an absolutely fantastic Mayor and, other than Ronald Reagan, I cannot think of another executive who produced such profoundly positive results from his actions.
When he took over New York was a freaking disaster, thanks to decades of liberal rule, beginning with John “Limousine” Lindsay through David “Disaster” Dinkins.
He turned the economy around, cut taxes substantially, improved what were abysmal services, and reduced crime – all of which made New York not only livable again, but restored it’s standing as one of the greatest cities in the world.
It had gotten to the point that you could not walk down the street without being accosted by intoxicated and deranged homeless people whose “rights” the ACLU thought it was their most somber duty to protect.
My negative experience with Liberalism, and positive experience with Rudy’s no-nonsense Conservativism was a factor in my leaving the Democrat Party and never looking back.
Buy Danish on September 6, 2007 at 12:59 PM
My thoughts about Rudy during the debate turned out to be the same with the focus group. Rudy repeated himself at every opportunity to talk about his record. I hope he gets away from this, before it turns into a John Kerry “I’ve been to Vietnam” slogan that he says at every opportunity.
McCain said nothing that was new. He has never changed his mind about illegal immigration, unfortunately. He still believes in the same principles in the Shamnesty Bill that caused such an uproar with the public.
Huckabee was good. Natural and articulate.
I wish Ron Paul wouldn’t show up. It is becoming almost part of the debate to slam down the dumb things RP says.
Sen Brownback, or as I like to affectionately call him “Anti-Gore” did ok, but I can only think of him being AlGore’s non-evil twin brother.
I almost forgot that Romney was in the debate!
Weebork on September 6, 2007 at 1:05 PM
Who gives a flying flip about the Freddie???? From all the Steveys (Steve), Mikeys (Mike), Billys (Bill), Daveys (Dave), Nickeys (Nick), Eddies (Ed), and all the other ies of the world growing up…who gives a fliP???????? It sounds ALL AMERICAN to me!!!!
hotvol on September 6, 2007 at 1:10 PM
I’m not sure people in New hapshire are quite as important as they believe they are. But I was really surprised hearing McCain talk about Republican corruption. Maybe they don’t know about Charles Keating in NH?
Shay on September 6, 2007 at 1:11 PM
grin
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 1:15 PM
That’s about the stupidest piece I hate about the debates.
Watching the dial group is like watching the Nielsen ratings or waiting for the Oscar picks. It doesn’t mean anything in my view.
Rule of thumb, if it’s an Oscar winner, wait till it comes out on DVD, else you’ll be disappointed.
The debates are too watered down with sound bite answers and over analysis.
Fred won in my view because he got his message out to a larger audience. Now let’s see how it sorts out by Monday.
Kini on September 6, 2007 at 1:15 PM
It was! Worth the price of admission right there.
Except for the FedEx bit he ‘borrowed’ from Newt.
Spirit of 1776 on September 6, 2007 at 1:21 PM
Spirit,
Yeah, I recognized that too. He should have referenced that after he got the impact of the point across. Whatever you think about Fred, and I am somewhat indifferent about him, at least he referenced Newt’s idea when he mentioned it. Good for him.
Yeah, I’m glad Wallace shot that back. RP dodged that one too. I wonder if Kucinich gets the same reaction during the Dem debates? (note: Kucinich = Ron Paul, imho)
Weebork on September 6, 2007 at 1:28 PM
You neglected to defend AZCON’s bagels and spaghetti smack.
He is ignorant because he thinks a candidate can get elected without appealing to the major population centers in this country.
He is a racist from his denigration of Italians and Jews and “New York or what it represents.” It was implicit in his post that the predominately white parts of the country are somehow morally superior to the more cosmopolitan portions.
The redneck comment was an educated guess based upon the above and his name AZCON — an Arizona conservative who dislikes Jews, Italians, and New Yorkers generally.
There was a rational basis for my comment. Your comment about me, not so much…
tommylotto on September 6, 2007 at 1:28 PM
er,
the same reaction in the sense of his deranged cheerleading squad in the audience programmed to loudly cheer as soon as RP stops talking.
Weebork on September 6, 2007 at 1:29 PM
Ooooh! I never noticed that until the hubby mentioned that last night…totally creeped me out when he talked!
Miss_Anthrope on September 6, 2007 at 1:33 PM
By the way, isn’t saying “fiscally conservative” redundant?
Just a thought.
Weebork on September 6, 2007 at 1:36 PM
Miss A,
I’ve thought that since the first debate. Brownback has mannerisms very reminiscent of AlGore. Funny indeed.
Weebork on September 6, 2007 at 1:37 PM
Weebork on September 6, 2007 at 1:05 PM
You say –
So what? What’s he supposed to talk about?
Then you say –
There is a HUGE difference between the phony Kerry and the genuine Guiliani. What made Kerry’s Vietnam mantra so despicable was because he smeared the soldiers he served with, met with the N. Viets in Paris, accused our soldiers called our soldier serving in Iraq of “terrorizing” Iraqis, and so forth.
I don’t think anyone is going to complain that McCain reminds us of his Vietnam experience – even people like myself who loathe him for everything but that. It’s legitimate for him to talk about it, just as it is legit for Rudy to talk about all the brilliant things he accomplished as Mayor (and Prosecutor).
Buy Danish on September 6, 2007 at 1:44 PM
People who don’t like bigotry should probably avoid using terms like “redneck”
Shay on September 6, 2007 at 1:54 PM
Buy Danish,
I will clarify. I am not bashing the record Rudy is running off of. What I am concerned about is that if he brings it up, as he did during the debate, it sounds sound-bitish and repetitive. Noting your experience is fine, but beginning every answer with something like “When I was mayor of New York…” gets tiresome.
I was not able to articulate myself well enough about this, so let me try again. I will admit that the John Kerry thing was dopey upon reflection, but the point I was trying to get across is the danger of being labeled by the media, and worse potential voters, of being stuck to relying solely on 8 years of one’s life. You can think whatever you wish about focus groups and the like, but it is clear that those voters were noticing the same, seemingly over-repetitive references to his tenure in NYC that I was.
Once again, I’m not bashing his credentials, I just am concerned about the delivery aspect.
Weebork on September 6, 2007 at 1:58 PM
My beef with McCain last night was that in one breath he said the war in Iraq was lost or totally screwed up and then went on to chide Romney for saying the surge “appeared” to be working. Same ‘ol talk out of both sides of his mouth, reach across the aisle, let’s get a concenus McCain.
I would like to see a debate with only Brownback, Tancredo, Hunter, and Huckabee. Maybe that way they would get asked some questions and there wouldn’t be so much face time given to the anointed “leaders” based on polling.
Did Hunter even get asked a question to respond to?
LakeRuins on September 6, 2007 at 2:01 PM
Lakeview,
Hunter was directly asked two questions, I believe. Brownback, Tancredo, and Ron Paul had about the same time given to them.
Weebork on September 6, 2007 at 2:03 PM
It looks like CSDeven has been correct all those months, calling Thompson Freddie Boy. Nice scoop, CS!
jaime on September 6, 2007 at 2:09 PM
Well said, Buy Danish. Although I now live in Mercer County, NJ (the DMZ zone between New York and Philadelphia), I grew up and lived in Northern NJ most of my life. Rudy is 100% correct when he says that people referred to New York City as “ungovernable.” He said he’d cut crime in New York, and everyone thought that was simply an empty campaign promise. Before Rudy, there was constant chatter on Sports Talk Radio in New York that the Yankees should move out of the Bronx, because people were afraid to go to the games.
I don’t know how well that will translate to governing our country, but he’s got my vote. He’s by far the greatest New York mayor in my lifetime. And it’s silly now to think that prior to Rudy, people were comparing ED KOCH as the greatest NYC mayor since La Guardia.
asc85 on September 6, 2007 at 2:26 PM
Basically agree, but also with your sentence that you aren’t sure how well that will translate to governing the country. Apart from the terrorism issue, isn’t that the point?
As for the whole NY thing, it’s like Romney knowing not to press the whole Mass thing. He knows conservs/republicans don’t like MA. Same here. A lot of people dont’ like what NY stands for, politically at least. If there are ethnic undertones, then they’re out of line.
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 2:34 PM
Every time Rudy mentions his record in New York I’m struck with an image of Rudy invading my home and taking my guns by force and then melting them down and pouring the mixture into a mold forming a statue of himself. The statue has a disapproving look on its face and the right arm is extended out front and is wagging its index finger, while the left hand is tightly clenched in a fist around the Constitution, which is being held over it’s left shoulder where nobody can reach it.
FloatingRock on September 6, 2007 at 2:42 PM
The point in regards to Guiliani is okay we know you were mayor of NYC, now can we move on. It is okay to tell me what you accomplished but what I want to know is what are you going to do. Right now down south Rudy was doing okay but then that idiot Spitzer and Bloomberg started coming after our guns and when Rudy got linked to the gun control issue it kind of tarnished his image.
Personally I don’t trust folks from New England because they are constantly stereotyping southerners, such as comments made by Howard Dean during the last election cycle and are always looking down their “Bluenoses” at us “Rednecks”. I guarantee you if Hillary had a southern accent she wouldn’t be the junior senator from New York right now.
LakeRuins on September 6, 2007 at 2:45 PM
Weebork,
Thanks for the clarification.
I’m still not sure what he’s supposed to talk about other than to go further back in time and talk about his record as a Prosecutor.
I’d much rather hear about someone’s accomplishments than listen to them fantasize about a New Utopian Order like the Dems always do.
Buy Danish on September 6, 2007 at 2:46 PM
Hahahahahahaha. Was about to logoff but couldn’t without responding. Great imagery, great writing, very funny, and not without a whiff of truth.
Can you think of any use a person with such attributes could be put to? Rudy’s of no use without an enemy. But if you’ve got one, you’d like him there fighting alongside you.
Are you electing a wartime or peacetime leader?
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 2:58 PM
Well said! Way too much of that crap I have to scroll over here on HA lately.
More signal. Less noise.
Thanks
techno_barbarian on September 6, 2007 at 3:04 PM
LakeRuins on September 6, 2007 at 2:45 PM
You should have some huge clues about what Rudy would do from his record as Mayor of NYC.
You mean like you’re stereotyping people from New England?
asc85 on September 6, 2007 at 2:26 PM
I spent most of my life in Manhattan, then (Shhhhhh, don’t let LakeRuins hear this) moved to New England, where I spent 6 years. I have lived in the South for the past 7 years.
Since you’re a Rudy fan, here is a great article from City Journal, entitled Yes, Rudy Guiliani is a conservative which you would enjoy.
Indeed, I think Guiliani is more of a conservative than those who believe he is an “authoritarian” member of the “spaghetti and bagels” wing of the Party.
Buy Danish on September 6, 2007 at 3:12 PM
gekkobear,
Your shtick as a troll would be more believable if you gave equal time to AZCON for his coded speech about Italians and Jews.
Or do you like the fact that it, err, “promoted dialogue”?
Buy Danish on September 6, 2007 at 3:17 PM
Ron Paul’s squeaky, whining voice is like a parody. He is delusional on the issue with his “a few neocons” nonsense. Overwhelming support from the House and Senate and huge popular support per the polls.
Take a seat, squeaky, you’ve had a long day.
Jaibones on September 6, 2007 at 3:26 PM
Agreed. Spaghetti & Bagels? Yeah, that didn’t register for me the first time, and wasn’t appropriate.
You got a map or something so I can see what you’re talking about? Can you show me on a map where these “predominately white parts of the country” are? I’m assuming they’re not in the South, or Southwest, or Midwest, or West, or on either coast. I’ve not done much traveling in the Dakotas, or Wisconsin or Michigan… maybe there? Oh, and is there an inherent benefit in not being “predominantly white”? Would there be a similar benefit in not being “predominantly” any other race? Or is it just White that’s bad to have “predominant”?
Now, his post was cheerleading for the rural areas over urban areas; and crossed the line slightly on one point.
For which you call him a racist redneck, attack rural areas and “implicitly stating” that anyone not in a big city is an ignorant racist redneck. Which seems a bigoted and tasteless attack. Right?
See, if you can play the “implicit in his post” then I get to play the same, right?
Oh, and since “predominantly white” isn’t good, can you clarify the proper ratios so maybe we can ship people around the country to get the correct mix of people? I’ve never seen the proper ratio for “cosmopolitan” except:
* 1 oz Vodka
* 1/2 oz Triple sec
* 1/2 oz sweetened lime juice
* 1/2 oz Cranberry juice
gekkobear on September 6, 2007 at 3:34 PM
In either case the President should be the chief representative of American principles and ideals. I’m not willing to sacrifice my freedom and liberty for temporary security, and although I may be in a small minority here at HotAir, I feel confident that there is still a sizable portion of the conservative electorate that agrees with my view.
Besides, I’ve never gotten the impression that Rudy understands Jihad any better than the other candidates; just the opposite, frankly. If Rudy understands the threat so well, why does he, or did he, (or whatever), support sanctuary-cities? He says he wants to set up cameras at the border—-for what purpose? So we can count how many people are pouring across? Why doesn’t he support workplace enforcement and the shutting down of the other magnets that draw them here?
I think that the case some have made that Rudy would be the toughest on terrorism is greatly overstated. If that’s the only factor to consider we should perhaps give Tancredo our undivided attention from here on out, which isn’t likely to happen.
FloatingRock on September 6, 2007 at 4:00 PM
Gekkobear,
That was a silly observation because it makes no sense, but TommyLotto was responding to AZCONS
spaghetti and bagelsJews and Italians comment and his whole spiel about how people from Tennessee are way superior to New Yorkers, AND the ludicrous suggestion that liberty is something that only flyover country cares about.Under the circumstances I don’t blame him for tagging AZCON as an “ignorant, racist, redneck” as it had a ring of truth to it – unlike AZCON’s azzhat comments which are based on nothing but prejudice, bigotry and…ignorance.
Buy Danish on September 6, 2007 at 4:06 PM
Of all the candidates, I feel like I know Rudy the best, because I lived in NYC when he was mayor. And even then I don’t know if I prefer him over the others. All of the candidates on view last night have flaws that are becoming readily apparent. But like you, I’ll be voting R on election day, and hope for the best.
JiangxiDad on September 6, 2007 at 4:17 PM
I’m from Texas so I appreciate the red state – blue state thing. I get the fly over stuff. I appreciate the moral simplicity of rural areas. However, he was not just cheerleading for rural areas and he didn’t cross the line just slightly. He called Italians, spaghetti, and jews, bagles. Is it okay to call him “wonderbread” or how about a Whataburger w/ cheese?
Your logic is upside down. I did not state or even imply that my comments applied to anyone other than AZCON. There is an unfortunate reason why the rural flyover portions of this country are looked down upon by the blue coasts, and AZCON’s sentiments are a major part of that reason.
Once again, your logic is upside down. I was not making any value judgments concerning any part of the country or ethic group, unlike AZCON.
Why are you standing up for that ignorant racist redneck?
tommylotto on September 6, 2007 at 4:54 PM
I always preferred “whitebread” myself, but “wonderbread” works. I’ve been called that myself before, and I don’t exactly care either way. I tend to ignore those who make an attack that shallow (and I’m a bit disappointed that I overlooked AZCON’s spaghetti and bagel statement).
So, to avoid bigotry and idiocy from the blue states; it’ll be necessary to silence every single idiotic statement from every single person in every red state.
Because the Blue state people aren’t clever enough to understand that one bad apple doesn’t ruin the whole bunch? Gotcha… doesn’t that say something though?
Um, I think what he said was wrong, the racial comments in particular. And I think your bigoted attacks are also wrong. I still think you’ve been presumptuous, arrogant, and elitist.
Really? It read that way.
Oh, I forgot. You can make assumptions, derive the meaning of “implicit statements”, and make educated guesses to divine the inner meaning of the posts of others.
And oddly, if others do the same with your posts, that’s a problem.
We’re just reading the same words differently here I’m sure, but reading your posts with the same rigor you applied to AZCON’s doesn’t paint a complimentary picture.
gekkobear on September 6, 2007 at 6:14 PM
Look, you already admitted that you overlooked AZCON’s sly bigoted comment. Just admit you were wrong, you defended the wrong guy, and move on.
Practice your rhetoric skills somewhere else…
tommylotto on September 6, 2007 at 6:51 PM
Heh. I got a little chuckle out of that too. :-)
csdeven on September 6, 2007 at 7:08 PM
Yeah, that was an awkward moment for Mitt, but I have heard him handle that question much more deftly in the past. I think he was trying to nuance his position too much. But, I am definitely going to be closely watching his responses this area in the future.
csdeven on September 6, 2007 at 10:04 PM
Yeah. No kidding. Where does that leave gay conservatives? How about conservative atheists? Black conservatives? I have seen a lot of crap from that guy, but I never expected this kind of mindless crap.
csdeven on September 6, 2007 at 10:08 PM
I re-watched it and Huck was stumbling around with some of those “natural” whiz bangs he’s been getting off against folks. It looked like it has been scripted the entire time.
csdeven on September 6, 2007 at 10:14 PM
I missed it last night, but I’m hearing that Tanc didn’t get a chance to answer many questions. Was this debate slanted by asking only the so called front runners the majority of the questions?
- The Cat
MirCat on September 6, 2007 at 10:49 PM
I only watched the debate once through, but my impression of Tancredo’s performance is as follows: First, he was only asked a few questions but I think he probably received equal time relative to the other second tier candidates. Tancredo’s real problem was that he was too careful and spent most of his time allotted for answering questions trying to lay the groundwork to prepare the audience for his non-PC answers. Then, he would simply run out of time in almost every instance. Still, he scored some decent points while pre-qualifying his answers but overall I think he did much better in the previous Fox News debate a few months ago and in his recent TV appearances.
However, he did score a fair number of points resulting in strong applause.
FloatingRock on September 7, 2007 at 12:51 AM
Comment pages: