Open thread: The last Fred-less GOP debate; Update: Huckabee clashes with Paul over the surge; Update: GOP candidates smack Fred; Update: Rudy defends his personal life

posted at 8:30 pm on September 5, 2007 by Allahpundit

Eight elephants in a room and another who isn’t. The only one likely to mention Fred is Huckabee, who’s been knocking him regularly of late to try to boost his profile as a social con alternative. Count on a video highlight or two here later; the obligatory “Fred announces on Leno’s couch” clip will get its own post shortly after midnight. (FYI, the taping’s over and he’s already made it official.) Standard rules apply — if you’re watching and you see something, say something.

Some reading while we wait. Carl Cameron, who contributed to today’s earlier Fox News bombshell about Fred and who called the world’s attention to the fact that he rode around the Iowa state fair in a golf cart, kicks off the coverage tonight by noting how pissed the New Hampshire Republicans are at him for skipping the debate. Rush Limbaugh piles on by smacking Fred for devaluing the office of the presidency by announcing on Leno, an odd gripe for someone as media savvy as he is. Meanwhile, the last guy to announce on Leno takes a hard look at the electoral master stroke the GOP is trying to pull off in his state and comes out against it, naturally. And Rudy’s campaign trumpets the fact that he’s locked up Robert Duvall’s endorsement, which is somehow viscerally, if not logically, impressive, even if it does possibly reinforce the increasingly poisonous image of the party as “very old-fashioned, very old and not in touch with the realities of today’s society.”

I’ll leave you with Hillary’s awful new cookie-cutter ad about “change” with “experience.” It’s good at moments like these to remember the big differences with the other side.

Update: Here’s the first and quite possibly last highlight of a dreary affair — Mike Huckabee going toe to toe with the Only Conspiracy Theorist Who Can Save America. Don’t be thrown by the applause for Paul; his groupies turn out en masse for these events to try to create the impression that he’s doing better than 2% in the polls. Note the strain of conspiracy theorizing even here in the suggestion that it was a cabal of neocons, not the overwhelming majorites in the Senate and House that authorized the war and the 70% or so of the public that supported it, that’s to blame. Huckabee did a graceful job responding, as usual.

Update: Brit wasn’t going to let them dodge the elephant in the room. Here’s the very first question of the night, preceded by a transparent slap at Fred ducking the debate by the head of the New Hampshire GOP.

Update: Arguably the most interesting, and deftly handled, answer of the evening. Frank Luntz’s focus group says it was McCain’s night, though.


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I’ve got my cold Bud, Copy of the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and a warm Colt, all handy…

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 8:35 PM

What time does the circus begin?

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 8:37 PM

I can not bring myself to click on the above vid.
I hope this debate is better than the previous ones.

And Fred is risking being the old man that couldn’t.

Dersu on September 5, 2007 at 8:37 PM

Woo hoo, open thread. I’d like to announce that I’ve lost 30 lbs since Christmas. I still have to lose another 30 but hey, progress is progress. (perfunctory plug for WeightWatchers Online)

What does that have to do with Fred? Uh, well he lost weight too. :-) Go Phred.

Hillary has already managed to get on my nerves *shudder*. I get exwife flashbacks every single time I hear her shrewish drone.

Mojave Mark on September 5, 2007 at 8:37 PM

Oh, 9:00.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 8:38 PM

I’ve got my cold Bud, Copy of the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and a warm Colt, all handy…

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 8:35 PM

Bud lite, chips and Glock mod 23 in 40 cal with tactical laser/light. The TV is expendable tonight.

Dersu on September 5, 2007 at 8:39 PM

Hillary’s ad is predictable, but it is also deft: she envelopes her chief opponents largest rhetoric asset, the call for change, and his greatest weapon, the dynastic nature of the Presidency should she be elected, into a smooth single phrase, roughly: i have the experience to bring about change.

Spirit of 1776 on September 5, 2007 at 8:42 PM

Bud lite, chips and Glock mod 23 in 40 cal with tactical laser/light. The TV is expendable tonight.

Dersu on September 5, 2007 at 8:39 PM

Cheap wine, day old pizza, Nerf TV Brick. Can’t afford a new TV

Kini on September 5, 2007 at 8:44 PM

Well, it was a little over the top to announce on Leno. I know little or nothing about this man–but–I already have doubts about him based on the spoiled child tactics he has been using up until now. He’ll have to work hard for my approval I think.

jeanie on September 5, 2007 at 8:45 PM

I’ve got my cold Bud, Copy of the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and a warm Colt, all handy…

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 8:35 PM

3 out of 4 isn’t bad.

steveegg on September 5, 2007 at 8:46 PM

Mojave Mark on September 5, 2007 at 8:37 PM

Kudos, Mark!

mikeyboss on September 5, 2007 at 8:48 PM

Eight elephants in a room and another the biggest one who isn’t.

However, the socialist glacier gave him a perfect opportunity with “privatization isn’t the answer to anything”. Melt her a little Fred – on second thought, don’t. Just attack her statement, like you did Mr. Porkey.

Entelechy on September 5, 2007 at 8:48 PM

In fairness to Rush, he said:

Here’s my problem with it, folks. This is not settled science with me. I’m not fully decided on this yet. I think the office is being devalued, or it stands the possibility of being devalued when it’s announced on an entertainment comedy show type format.

Not fully decided. Which means he is still mulling on, though inclined to disagree with the decision. But he reserved the right to withdraw his resignation and retract his guilty plea if he changes his mind.

Spirit of 1776 on September 5, 2007 at 8:50 PM

Noted without comment.

Big S on September 5, 2007 at 8:52 PM

Mojave Mark on September 5, 2007 at 8:37 PM

Congratulations!

It’s funny, but, everyone I know that’s successfully lost weight has done it on WW.

Well, I met one chick at a women’s conference that lost 60 pounds on the power of prayer, but, everyone else I know did it on WW.

Keep up the good work!

JadeNYU on September 5, 2007 at 8:52 PM

MKH just mentioned Hot Air on O’Reilly.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM

Hot Air Ham plug!

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 8:53 PM

My goodness we are suppose to trust a woman who could not keep her husband at home. No offense to all out there but she can not even run her own house and she is gonna run mine. Forget it! This is not a good situation and the people here need to be the first to take it to the streets. Please do not sit at home and forsake the election just trying to prove a point. Prove it by voting and stopping this girl dog from having a chance.

mjkazee on September 5, 2007 at 8:54 PM

Thompson ad just ran on Fox.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 8:55 PM

MKH wants children to smoke weed! Just heard her say it on tv!

(kinda)

Kevin M on September 5, 2007 at 8:59 PM

Reporting In..

RobertCSampson on September 5, 2007 at 8:59 PM

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 8:55 PM

Just saw it. Yeah, the head-bobbing is really distracting.

jdawg on September 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM

With pride and gratitude I’m where Fort Benning is this week. We’re in such good hands.

I won’t watch the debate but am contemplating staying up for Leno.

Arnold is schnapsed or needs a strong Schnaps, not only on the above linked issue. But then, he’s Arnold. I believe this will be on the ballot in CA. I’m of two minds about it myself, though. No need for Schnaps here. Must keep a clear head and a sane perspective.

Entelechy on September 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM

It’s on.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM

Wow. There’s a whole bunch of people there tonight.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM

Will anyone throw a fish on the stage?

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 9:01 PM

When’s that FOX New Democratic Debat again?…*sigh*

JetBoy on September 5, 2007 at 9:02 PM

I think Mr. Cullen dislikes Fred!

RobertCSampson on September 5, 2007 at 9:02 PM

Obviously Paul doesn’t have a bunch of fans there.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:02 PM

Fred slam #1 from NH GOP.

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 9:03 PM

Fred should really be at this one.

JetBoy on September 5, 2007 at 9:03 PM

fred slammed by the dude from the GOP.

zane on September 5, 2007 at 9:03 PM

Isn’t New Hampshire up there near Canada ?

sonnyspats1 on September 5, 2007 at 9:04 PM

First question is about Fred Thompson.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:04 PM

Well, it was a little over the top to announce on Leno. I know little or nothing about this man–but–I already have doubts about him based on the spoiled child tactics he has been using up until now. He’ll have to work hard for my approval I think.

What a bunch of horse crap. The current spectacle of presidential would-be’s on BOTH sides is F*CKING EMBARASSING.

Tell you what Mr. Wizard. Let’s just make a new f*cking rule. When you’re 35 you announce you’re running for president and you begin campaigning 18 months before every election until either your elected or UNTIL YOU F*CKING DIE.

God Bless Fred and his common sense. Everyone else out there looks like a f*cking dog fighting over table scraps. This is the God damned PRESIDENCY OF THE UNITED STATES. NOT A MOTHERF*CKING REALITY TV SHOW.

New media campaign my ass. Now we see that the new media is just as vapid and shallow as the elitist asshats on the left.

thareb on September 5, 2007 at 9:04 PM

Let’s get ready to rumble!!!

DCA on September 5, 2007 at 9:04 PM

Anyone notice that Slick Willy found time to be on Larry King
barely live show tonight?

Wonder how/why that happened?

Dersu on September 5, 2007 at 9:05 PM

Smackdown on the 1st question!

RD on September 5, 2007 at 9:05 PM

Whoa first question on Fred Thompson and Huckabee kills with his answer.

sonnyspats1 on September 5, 2007 at 9:05 PM

Paul’s excited about his entrance, because it will destroy the Republican field. Hmm.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:05 PM

Well, they have already taken a big shot at Fred(?)

Sounds like some Paultards are present in NH.

William Teach on September 5, 2007 at 9:05 PM

bedtime!

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 9:05 PM

the Republican field = the rest of the Republican field

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:06 PM

At least Fred’s getting an “honorable mention”…but isn’t this a bit unusual? Talking about a guy who, at this time anyway, isn’t in…or there?

JetBoy on September 5, 2007 at 9:06 PM

Ron Paul has already made a fool of himself.

jp on September 5, 2007 at 9:06 PM

Mitt is angling for Fred’s VP.

RobertCSampson on September 5, 2007 at 9:07 PM

Rudy:
Fred is playing my part on Law&Order

Kicking FDT arounf alot.

Dersu on September 5, 2007 at 9:08 PM

“Ron Paul has already made a fool of himself.”

Perhaps, but give him time to work up to level 10 ;)

William Teach on September 5, 2007 at 9:08 PM

Fred is not an issue! This really grinds my gears!

lsutiger on September 5, 2007 at 9:08 PM

Yay! Immigration Question.. Funny how the Republican candidates are addressing issues..

RobertCSampson on September 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM

Boos for Romney?

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM

Fred wins the illegal question; “seal the border”

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM

Chris off the top rope!

DCA on September 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM

ICE is a department now?

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM

Chris off the top rope!

DCA on September 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM

lol!

zane on September 5, 2007 at 9:10 PM

Chris, awesome. No wonder the Dems are scared.

Spirit of 1776 on September 5, 2007 at 9:10 PM

Slam Mitt.
You got illegals in your frontyard dude…. do something

VolMagic on September 5, 2007 at 9:10 PM

Republicans facing tougher questions then the Dems did. No wonder the Dems did not want to go on Fox. They were scared.

William Teach on September 5, 2007 at 9:10 PM

i just got on. have we all talked about this crappy people meter on teh web feed? uck.

TexasDan on September 5, 2007 at 9:10 PM

This is what the Dems are afraid of-tough questions.

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 9:11 PM

Does Rudy have a bottle tan?

Dersu on September 5, 2007 at 9:11 PM

Fred wins the illegal question; “seal the border”

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM


Oh no he doesn’t.

As noted above.

Big S on September 5, 2007 at 9:12 PM

Rudy is fumbling the immigration ball.

Valiant on September 5, 2007 at 9:12 PM

Chris is turning them against each other.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:13 PM

so i set up a sanctuary because i had to since the feds hung me out to dry?

points for spin, Rudy, but you’re still a RINO

TexasDan on September 5, 2007 at 9:13 PM

McCain: No One is For Amnesty.

WAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:13 PM

Republicans facing tougher questions then the Dems did. No wonder the Dems did not want to go on Fox. They were scared.

William Teach on September 5, 2007 at 9:10 PM

No kidding. I don’t think we’ll be seeing “would you let us get married… to each other?” from lesbians or “what will you do about global warming?” from a snowman here.

BKennedy on September 5, 2007 at 9:14 PM

CW is introducing the nail to the hammer in each question. Me likey!

DCA on September 5, 2007 at 9:14 PM

McCain is lying throuhg his teeth on immigration

VolMagic on September 5, 2007 at 9:14 PM

no wait, there’s more: border enforcement was the first priority. riiiight

TexasDan on September 5, 2007 at 9:14 PM

Romney- “As soon as I found out I could do something I did” with regards to sanctuary cities.

Of course he didn’t mention that he was apparently unaware that he could do something until the last weeks of his term.

Hollowpoint on September 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM

This is the best debate so far by far. Face to face, no dancing around these subjects.

Spirit of 1776 on September 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM

I want some Paul crankery to liven this thing up!

VolMagic on September 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM

McCain is lying throuhg his teeth on immigration

VolMagic on September 5, 2007 at 9:14 PM

agreed

Dersu on September 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM

Adios Huck.

Valiant on September 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM

Almost fell asleep during Rudy’s immigration dodge. Almost.

Hollowpoint on September 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM

Don’t tell me Huckabee is doing…Yup. He’s using Newt’s line.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM

Huck has been listening to Newt.

Spirit of 1776 on September 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM

Huckabee wins points for the UPS/Fedex analogy. He better give the guy who thought that up a raise.

BKennedy on September 5, 2007 at 9:16 PM

Huckabee just made it clear why hes third tier.

RobertCSampson on September 5, 2007 at 9:16 PM

Nice aim at your foot, Huckabee. You just want to be so gosh darned nice to illegals.

Hollowpoint on September 5, 2007 at 9:16 PM

Is Tanc always placed on the very end in the podium line-up?

VolMagic on September 5, 2007 at 9:16 PM

give the guy who thought that up a raise.

His name is Newt Gingrich

Spirit of 1776 on September 5, 2007 at 9:16 PM

Tanc for Freds VP.

AZCON on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

I agree his points were good but he didn’t answer the question regarding his “racism” comments..

RobertCSampson on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

Mc Cain’s immigration answer Huh? how does he justify adding Katrina to the equation? Federal government not doing their job? Anyone ever hear of homeowners insurance?

sonnyspats1 on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

There comes a man…

billy on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

Go Tanc Go!

lsutiger on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

Is Tanc always placed on the very end in the podium line-up?

VolMagic on September 5, 2007 at 9:16 PM

He want’s quick access to grab any illegals that might be in the audience.

Hollowpoint on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

Bravo Tanc!

sonnyspats1 on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

Yay tanc!!!

RD on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

Well said, Tancredo.

Spirit of 1776 on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

wooot tanc

TexasDan on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

This is the best debate so far by far. Face to face, no dancing around these subjects.

Spirit of 1776 on September 5, 2007 at 9:15 PM

I hear that. Actual petinent questions being asked…Olby and Matthews should be taking notes…

JetBoy on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

RobertCSampson on September 5, 2007 at 9:17 PM

Just thinking the same thing.

amerpundit on September 5, 2007 at 9:18 PM

I like Hunter

VolMagic on September 5, 2007 at 9:19 PM

Hunter: I’m going to build the fence within 6 months.

I’ll believe it when I see it. Nice promise though.

DCA on September 5, 2007 at 9:19 PM

Hire Hunter to build the fence, even though he can not be POTUS

Dersu on September 5, 2007 at 9:19 PM

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