no theres perfectly good cake over here that doesn’thave feces on it

It sounds like we’re in agreement about the feces part. How about you come out and say, “I think rapping about murder and violent misogyny is evil and hip-hop would be better off without it. Any rapper who engages in that should be pilloried and ostracized.”? Would that be too much to ask of a hip-hop apologist?

Real hip-hop music is focused on clever lyricism and well laid beats not boasting an some obvious hook.

crr6 on September 4, 2007 at 6:06 PM

Are you saying that rapping about murder and violent misogyny is not real hip-hop?

Try Talib Kweli, Common, or Binary Star. Real hip-hop music is focused on clever lyricism and well laid beats not boasting an some obvious hook. I think we can agree most of the stuff on the radio however, truly is “(c)rap)”. It’s sold to the lowest common denominator. Oddly enough thats often 15 year old suburban girls.

Who said celebrate?

Everyone who thinks that rapping about murder and violent misogyny is cool.

How about raise awareness?

How much more awareness about thug culture could possibly be raised? Everyone already knows what it is! The point in dispute is, “Does thug culture suck?” I claim that it does, and that’s why I think rap is evil. If rap can kick thug culture to the curb and excoriate it, then I’ll be happy to change my opinion, but not until then.

Try listening to some decent rap before you cast judgement

crr6 on September 4, 2007 at 2:16 PM

You: The cake is really good.
Me: The cake has feces instead of icing.
You: Stop watching Fox News and eat the good part of the cake.

Indeed, so let’s extol and celebrate those “stark and harsh realities”. Furthermore, there are other communities that don’t have the problems of gang murders and abusive misogyny, so let’s bring a bit of that culture to those deprived communities. Celebrate!

Who said celebrate? How about raise awareness? Oh no those poor ghetto people should just keep their problems to themeselves. Try listening to some decent rap before you cast judgement…Fox News isn’t a very good place to start.

the rap music scene is far more layered than that.

I agree. Rap is like a delicious layer cake … only instead of having icing, it has feces.

Nas has some lyrics that depict life’s stark and often harsh realities.

Indeed, so let’s extol and celebrate those “stark and harsh realities”. Furthermore, there are other communities that don’t have the problems of gang murders and abusive misogyny, so let’s bring a bit of that culture to those deprived communities. Celebrate!

if you’re listening to contemporary radio for good music, you’re already lost.

The Race Card on September 4, 2007 at 12:38 PM

Pay no attention to the “Stop Snitching” murderer behind the curtain!

Karol on September 4, 2007 at 11:57 AM

We disagree on Nas. But we do agree on Axl Rose.

Don’t want to have his babies, but I did see GNR live from fourth row center right after they picked up the Cult’s drummer.

Jaibones on September 3, 2007 at 11:57 PM

What does that link have to do with anything? The writer is as interesting as a sober Bukowski. The article’s premise is weak and the facts are disjointed.

Have you really heard enough rap music to judge it? Yes there is a ton of violent, misogynistic, drug-promoting crap….a ton of it. But the rap music scene is far more layered than that.

I can understand how at 50 your exposure would be limited. But it really is lazy to assume that everything you have heard or read about a musical genre is all there is to know. What are your sources for rap critique – Oreilly, Laura Ingraham, Michelle Malkin?

There are thousands of artists around the world whose rap lyrics focus on more than the most shallow, base facets of life. If you want to complain about crap you hear on the radio, believe me, I understand. But if you’re listening to contemporary radio for good music, you’re already lost.

Nas has some lyrics that depict life’s stark and often harsh realities. Other Nas lyrics are extremely violent. Regardless of what you think of his content, he is one of the most celebrated rappers because of his style and delivery.

What about rap makes it more gruesome than this weekend’s box office leader, Halloween. Going to horror movies has been a rite of passage for American kids for decades.

I think the problem is that something about black men is intoxicating. Americans can not get enough them whether we like what they are doing or not. How can such a marginalized group of men, comprising about 6% of the population, present such giant social hurdles for this nation?

Remember, rap music’s commercial success is largely due to white consumers’ support. This summer’s Rock the Bells tour showcases many classic rap artists including Public Enemy. The So Cal event drew 50,000+ mostly white fans.

Many of rock’s biggest names – System of a Down, RHCP, Aerosmith, Bob Dylan – have collaborated with or been influenced by rappers. Why?

Cowards in charge over there at V-tech. Why not just have a Marilyn Manson, Megadeath superset?

Mojave Mark on September 3, 2007 at 9:40 PM

VT would instead have Metallica. Before every home football game, the players run onto the field to “Enter Sandman”.

When I say they need to be “held to account”, I simply mean that we should expose them for their trashy songs and allow others the opportunity to boycott them based on that.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 8:08 PM

Agreed. Thanks for the clarification.

A “gun-free” zone is a common sense-free zone.

True. I talk to people at VT almost every day. Common sense on gun control is definitely the exception to the rule.

I frankly couldn’t care less about a bunch of punks and gangsters shooting each other; I’m just sick of hearing their noise in my living room from cars driving by.

Again, V Tech deserves what it gets. They can celebrate death in any fashion they choose. Is the discussion here a factor of age? I’m almost 50, and no fan of rap or rappers.

The lyrics to these particular songs are moody, dark and violent. The songs and artists, however, are among the best in music history.

Some of the most watched American films are filled with utter violence and wanton sex. Hell, my current governor has killed more people on film than almost anyone alive.

What about rap music’s violence causes such a visceral response? And if it’s so bad, why do your kids keep buying it? Where are the parental controls? When will America wake up and realize that we are all consumers of this stuff?

Violence and depravity do not end with 50 cent. Was Quintin Tarantino rapping when he asked about “dead nigger storage?.” There was no rap music playing on Law & Order when they showed a rape victim bleeding from her uterus. There are countless of examples where we let this stuff slip into the norm.

The thing about rappers is that most of them are black. And nothing better to get your dander up than some urban hustler peddling sex and violence to your daughters.

I like my art bleeding edge provocative. Sue me. I can separate acting from real life. I know the rest of the world has trouble doing that.

Curiously, has anyone ever seen a condom used in a filmed sex scene? Have you ever seen a legitimate portrayal of a church going family? We have a long way to go before we can claim any victories on film. Fortunately, there is a lot of good, clean, tasteful music out there.

If the clean stuff bores you, here’s something to raise your hackles:
Hip Hop is Dead
Track 5 – Black Republican featuring Jay-Z (parental advisory).

***
addendum:
Here’s a Nas verse that probably should have exempted him from a celebration of those lives lost to gun violence at Virginia Tech:
Niggas be runnin through the block shootin
Time to start the revolution
catch a body halfway houston
Once they caught us off guard
the MAC 10 was in the grass an
I ran like a cheetah with thoughts of an assasin
picked the Mac up
told brothers back up
the Mac spit.
Lead was hittin niggas
one ran I made him backflip.
Heard a few chicks scream – my arm shook
couldn’t look
gave another squeeze, heard it click
yo my shit is stuck.
Tried to cock it,
It wouldn’t shoot, now I’m in danger
finally pulled it back saw 3 bullets caught up in the chamber.
So now Im jettin to the buildin lobby.
It was probably full of children -
couldn’t see, as high as I be.

but also a common-sense-free zone.

I thought that described pretty much all of academia.

Ice Cube is making romantic comedies.

Ice T is on network tv playing a cop.

Oh these rappers! They’ll be the end of us all!

I realize the discussion here is more to the appropriateness of the lyrics at the venue, and of the offensive nature of rap lyrics in general as related to the Imus thing etc.

Hip Hop has some idiots who ruin it for the guys who do genuinely creative stuff with real imagination. Also, alot of talented acts waste just enough time on the Ganster crap that they never take advantage of their potential. But they all pay lip service to sex and violence at some point, it seems.
I hope this guy continues to make good music and stays out of trouble. I think he’s a talented writer.
He could edit his content for a show at that venue, and it would be a great concert.

Nonfactor on September 3, 2007 at 10:00 PM

The song where they kill and murder.
The song where they call her a Bi-otch and Hoe?

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!