Video: Bush addresses the troops in Anbar
posted at 2:51 pm on September 3, 2007 by Allahpundit
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I tacked on 90 seconds at the beginning of Bush’s remarks to the media, the salient point of which was the promise that America won’t abandon the Iraqi people. Congress will have something to say about that, I imagine. He also pushes the idea of “bottom-up reconciliation,” which, again, is premised on the idea of giving the leaders of the Anbar awakening some say in the national government. Maliki’s not going to go for that, whatever he might have told Bush today. Note also the opening Bush leaves himself to draw down troops if the security situation continues to improve. He’ll have no choice but to draw them down starting next summer, so expect the situation to improve rhetorically, if not in fact, by then.
He was well received by the troops, though. It’s a comfort to know that morale remains high.
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Tis…..My son was home for the holiday weekend. It won’t be long until tour #3 starts. While he is not looking forward to it he is ready to go ‘do his job’ (as he says).
BTW….he would love to run into Beauchamp when he goes back….almost as much as he would like to run into Dinnerjacket.
Limerick on September 3, 2007 at 3:01 PM
God bless the troops and the man who leads them.
CrimsonFisted on September 3, 2007 at 3:01 PM
This American does not want to abandon the Iraqi people either.
CrimsonFisted on September 3, 2007 at 3:03 PM
You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about Allah.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 3:07 PM
Okay, you’re right. Maliki’s a nonsectarian who only wants the best for Iraq and is prepared to be buds with the Sunnis, contrary to all indications over the past year.
Allahpundit on September 3, 2007 at 3:09 PM
To bolster the Armed Forces’ ground contingents and stop the over-rotating of the current men and women doing more than their fair share, Congress should approve of a fast-track to citizenship for any current applicants for legal immigration to the U.S. if they will serve in the fighting divisions.
We need to make one tour the reasonable limit for these brave troops.
If they want to go for further deployments, they can volunteer.
profitsbeard on September 3, 2007 at 3:10 PM
Video from Fox with the troops cheering.
Moonbat heads are exploding.
JammieWearingFool on September 3, 2007 at 3:13 PM
It is because of stories like this, we cannot abandon them.
CrimsonFisted on September 3, 2007 at 3:13 PM
The Sunnis oppressed the Shia for years, then started blowing up their citizens and their religious leaders. The Sunnis should have been pounded into the ground for what they have done. They were no better than Nazis. I have zero sympathy for the Sunnis.
Sunnis = Palestinians. Not worth the tears or the political time of day.
The Sunnis finally realized that if the US left, they would get massacred, and they hitched their wagon to the stronger horse.
Stormy70 on September 3, 2007 at 3:18 PM
Those of us who bother to read the military blogs every day for the past few years such as Mudville Gazette and Blackfive, etc, have known this for a long time. Try reading more milblogs and hearing from the troops directly and spending less time with what in the pessimistic, negative, fatalistic media tells us the troops are saying.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 3:22 PM
Allah was born pessimistic, I used to read his first blog.
When Allah is happy, tremble, for the end is near.
;)
Stormy70 on September 3, 2007 at 3:23 PM
Actually, the media consistently reports that morale remains high. Damien Cave of the Times told Bill Maher that to his face last week. And Spencer Ackerman, writing for the lefty American Progress magazine, told them that months ago.
Allahpundit on September 3, 2007 at 3:24 PM
As Bush already hinted at, as soon as the troop levels drop, know that he based it on Generals and true ground assessment, not by Schumer, Reid, Pelosi and Murtha..who will be crowing that although it took every ounce of their strength, they DID it!
malkinmania on September 3, 2007 at 3:28 PM
I think the goal in the waining days of the Bush administrations policy in Iraq isnt to win. The Surge has only one goal and that is to do as much damage to the insurgency before we pull out.
If we weaken them enough then maybe the Iraqi government can win a civil war. Or at the very least we pull Iran into Iraq for the next decade.
Bush needs to keep Syria and Iran from getting too bubby bubby else with the US gone from Iraq Hezbullah will get a flush of new arms and Israel will face one very great crisis soon
William Amos on September 3, 2007 at 3:33 PM
ooorah
BobH on September 3, 2007 at 3:37 PM
and Maher was shocked by his statement…..and every chance they get the media tries to portray things negatively and the troops against it.
Take earlier this summer when recruitment levels were down, as they traditionally are in June. The media jumped on this and reported everything completely out of context(that recruitment was up for the year still and traditionally is lower in early parts of summer.) and also recently trying to claim suicides are up in the media, without also noting that the same percent of Suicides in the military is the same for the general population, which indicates no link to Iraq. Yet they misreport and let the perception of such take foot.
jp on September 3, 2007 at 3:56 PM
I get so angry at Bush… and then he does something like this, and I can’t stay angry for long.
Maxx on September 3, 2007 at 4:00 PM
C’moin guys,
Give AP a little break – he is in NYC fer cryin’ out loud. The bombardment of the negative can wear a body down. AP wasn’t too pessimitic in past.
AP, I think you are a bit harsh on the current Iraqi leadership – they might show a little more flexibility, behind the scenes, than you may expect. Not that I think they are going to suddenly turn into the DuPage County Board next week.
As for morale. Mine remains high enough, looking at tour number two upcoming. Uh, Iraq this time, however.
major john on September 3, 2007 at 4:07 PM
Geez louise. Where are you going to be stationed, Major J? Do you know yet?
Hopefully you’re right about Maliki. I’m as pessimistic as the lefties these days; the difference is, I sincerely want to be wrong.
Allahpundit on September 3, 2007 at 4:09 PM
Yeah, that’s exactly what I was saying. I was saying the exact, polar opposite of what you were saying. Grow up.
Maliki will make the deal not because he wants to, but because he has to. His coalition is only Sadrist in part and it won’t hold together if the prospect of avoiding civil war is real. There is a difference between actively preparing for a coming conflict and actively promoting it’s arrival. Al-Q and Sadr want the war. The tribes, the Kurds, most of the Dawa, and most of SCIRI don’t. Which is why it isn’t there yet. The Marines aren’t preventing the civil war from going full scale all on their own and if they leave the Iraqis won’t be able to prevent it on their own. Almost no one wants this and that is why Maliki will make the deal when it’s clear that it’s doable, in intent and command, and that not doing it means an American withdrawal. You let reporters do your thinking for you Allah. The only thing the NYT and WaPo etc. are good for are pieces of data. And even then it has to be checked and filtered.
You’re not pessimistic, you’re just astonishingly credulous. Especially for an atheist.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 4:09 PM
It’s nice to see the boss with the troops
Kini on September 3, 2007 at 4:14 PM
That last comment sounds a bit harsh now that I re-read it. I’m really just sick of fatalism about Iraq and people’s willingness to instinctively believe the worst about Iraqis. It isn’t really about you Allah.
That, plus I just got diagnosed with MS on Friday and I’m kind of angry about that too. Didn’t mean to take it out on you.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 4:14 PM
The Apologist-
Sorry to hear about the diagnosis.
Get a second opinion, of course, and-
keep a good attitude.
Check this MS link out.
A friend has had it for 27 years, and is still going strong.
profitsbeard on September 3, 2007 at 4:35 PM
AllahPundit – While I can understand the pessimism, I truly wish you would leave it out of your postings here at HotAir. I am not saying to not report the facts, but I believe you are intelligent enough to realize that this war is fought as much in the media and here on blogs in order to change the hearts and minds and the will of civilian populations in the West… as much as it is being fought in the streets of Afghanistan and Iraq and in the hearts and minds of men, women and children in Iraq.
Your pessimism is not doing anything to help us win the war effort within the American public. In fact, it serves to depress people and turn them pessimistic and negative as well.
The fact is, we do not have the luxury of pessimism. We must fight and win this war effort and we have to bag our pessimism and do whatever it takes to support those men and women who are doing much, much more than us to succeed and progress in this war effort. This is a Long War and it will NOT be over next summer, no matter the politics. This is just the beginning.
Just as you all here and Michelle Malkin did your best to keep the American public engaged and optimistic with regards to stopping Amnesty, so too must we all be doing that to keep the American public engaged and optimistic with regards to succeeding and progressing in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we are not doing that, then we are part of the problem of declining public support for the war effort.
Now, maybe your job is just deteriorating your will to remain positive about just about anything anymore. I guess I can understand that, since I know I get irritated if I bother to pay too much attention to the mass media or what comes out of the mouths of Democrat politicians. But the fact is that we cannot allow ourselves to get negative or pessimistic or fatalistic. Our men and women believe in the mission and want to stay there and succeed and we owe it to them to support that. Anything less and we are letting them down.
So please, do your best to temper your pessimistic and negative attitude about things. I really enjoy your work here at HotAir, but the negativity that permeates from this blog sometimes is more than I can stand. If I wanted pessimism and fatalism about everything, I would become a leftist and surf lefty blogs.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 4:36 PM
I share your sentiments, Apologist. I am sick of the fatalism and pessimism and the dumping on the Iraqi and Afghani people as well. Especially when I see how hard the majority of the Iraqi people are working to save and rebuild their country. From the dispatches from Michael Yon and Michael Fumento and Bill Roggio and Matt Sanchez and W. Thomas Smith, Jr., it has been clear for months that the tide is turning and the Iraqi people are finally feeling comfortable with our American troops and have been helping us and turning on Al Qaeda. We Americans have absolutely NO CLUE what it would feel like to live as an Iraqi and how tough it must be to trust Americans under the threat of death from al Qaeda and the threat of death from insurgents and having to worry about America abandoning them again (this time to allow Iran and al Qaeda to be their new masters) as they keep hearing the Democrats say we are going to do.
In the face of all that, they have been extremely brave and courageous. We here in America must get past our immediate gratification mindset and understand that this is going to take years, not months. And there are going to be setbacks. America was not formed in 4 years. Neither were Japan and France and Germany rebuilt in 4 years. Sometimes it seems like people just have absolutely no sense of history.
People need to relax and put things in proper full perspective.
Also, I am sorry to hear about your MS, Apologist. I can’t imagine what you are going through. But it was very nice of you to apologize for taking out your anger here. Very understandable though. Stay strong and lean on your family and friends to help.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 4:45 PM
I wonder if they had to send a couple of ambulances over to MSNBC once the heads of Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann exploded in rage upon seeing the President in Iraq, cheered by our service men and women, and denouncing the role of the media and polls in determining troop levels… just beautiful…
D2Boston on September 3, 2007 at 5:16 PM
Hopefully you’re right about Maliki. I’m as pessimistic as the lefties these days; the difference is, I sincerely want to be wrong.
Allahpundit on September 3, 2007 at 4:09 PM
Maliki is what he is, a Shiite who has more in common with Sadr and Ahmadinejad than he does with Iraqi Sunnis.
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 5:21 PM
Iraq’s Leader Expects Favorable Report
bnelson44 on September 3, 2007 at 5:58 PM
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 6:30 PM
The Gettysburg of This War
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 6:30 PM
So, why are combat troop deaths down? QandO has a great analysis: planning, experience and successful executing of the strategy is the answer.
And, oh yeah, read to the bottom and you see morale is high among the lowest of the enlisted men and women. A key sign of morale being high all around.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 6:37 PM
I loved the reaction of the troops when Bush says we will pull out from a position of strength – I’m sure the moonbats will say that was Karl Rove’s deep voice giving the first huah
Defector01 on September 3, 2007 at 6:55 PM
Maybe, it could also be the time of year. Combat deaths tend to dip this time of year and then go up again when it gets cooler.
bnelson44 on September 3, 2007 at 7:10 PM
Yeah, you’re right. It’s the weather. The troops’ planning, experience, increased good human intel and successful execution of the strategy have nothing to do with it.
My mistake. I’ll be sure to tell that to my buddies in Iraq. Sorry, guys, it’s not your hard work, it’s just the weather.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 7:16 PM
Michael in MI,
Don’t take it personal, we don’t know. At least those of us typing here don’t know. We will find out in a few months though.
bnelson44 on September 3, 2007 at 7:18 PM
From the “planning, experience and successful executing of the strategy link“: “American combat deaths in Iraq have dropped by half in the three months since the buildup of 28,000 additional U.S. troops reached full strength, surprising analysts and dividing them as to why.”
I would be interested in knowing were these stats are from and/or how they are computed as they do not seem to be compatible with those at icasualties.org/oif which has if you add up the numbers -
American troop deaths in the last 3 months in Iraq (June, July and August, 2007) is 261 as compared to 311 in the previous 3 months (March, April, May, 2007)and compared to 169 in the corresponding 3 months of 2006 (June, July and August, 2006).
So down 16% or up 54% depending on how you compare.
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 8:46 PM
Overall the troops seemed pleased to see the CinC. I for one believe their morale is high. They’ve made some serious progress, they’re proud of that and rightfully so.
Yakko77 on September 3, 2007 at 9:00 PM
Have got to agree with Michael and the Apologist and others in re AP’s pessimism – which in my opinion turned into cynicism and defeatism long ago. Putting the worst possible light not just on Maliki’s but on Bush’s and everyone else’s statements and approach, alongside uninformed if not deliberate misreadings – for instance of what is meant by bottom-up reconciliation and how it might function within the larger Iraqi context – is something I’d expect from some kneejerk site like THINK PROGRESS. The panicky reactions to every negative headline – whether it was the attempted stampede for withdrawal in July or the difficult but secondary situation in Basra – also does a disservice.
Whose side are you on, Allahpundit? Is it the same one you used to think you were on, or that we used to think you were on?
CK MacLeod on September 3, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Whose side are you on, Allahpundit? Is it the same one you used to think you were on, or that we used to think you were on?
CK MacLeod on September 3, 2007 at 9:22 PM
I would surmise that he is on Americas side for sure, but that he tries to keep at least one foot planted in reality.
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 9:38 PM
What Exit? Fallujah!
Hmmm. I thought the complaint from all the Leftists and pessimists was that there was no plan? The Marines seem to think there was some good planning.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 9:38 PM
Pessimism and defeatism is not “reality”. And pushing pessimism and defeatism on the readers of HotAir is not “reality” either.
I did not see this same attitude from AllahPundit or anyone else in the Michelle Malkin group when it came to the Amnesty Bill.
So why is it permeating from this site now? My only answer is that AllahPundit is fine with seeing the war fail and has no interest in doing what he can to positively influence the American public to support the effort.
The military blogs I read deal with reality. What goes on here is pessimism, defeatism and fatalism. That does not help the war effort.
If AllahPundit and Michelle Malkin and Bryan Preston have given up on this war effort then fine, I will stop coming here, because I don’t deal with people who aren’t willing to fight for something in which they believe. All three of them fought valiantly and inspired others to follow them in killing the Amnesty Bill. I don’t see that same effort and inspiration with regards to the war effort. I see fatalism. And fatalism inspires no one.
Our troops deserve MUCH more from all of us. Especially from those who have a LOT of influence with political blogs such as HotAir.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 9:45 PM
I guess the troops haven’t been listening to the “rats” who have declared the war a lost cause. IMO Carl Levin, Harry Reid, Teddy Kennedy, and all the rest of the traitor bastards should be removed from office for their actions as a fifth column for our enemy- but that’s just me.
highhopes on September 3, 2007 at 9:46 PM
No, you are misreading some the statements and the numbers.
The original statement doesn’t refer to the total number of deaths for a three-month period, but rather to the drop-off over the course of three Surge months (June, July, and August) from a high in May. In addition, the aggregate oif casualty count figures you refer to include 27 or so deaths due to non-hostile causes (including two significant helicopter crashes as well as death by natural causes). The McClatchy report referred to at the original link from Michael in MI counts deaths by hostile fire.
CK MacLeod on September 3, 2007 at 9:51 PM
MB4 – Here is the direct link to the story. In May 2007, they have the deaths at 123. In AUG 2007, they have the deaths at 57. That is from where they get the analysis. Pretty much everyone expected combat deaths to go up with Coalition forces going on the offensive starting in June 2007. But, in fact, combat deaths were down compared to previous months in 2007. McQ at QandO attributes this to planning, experience, human intelligence (Iraqis helping us out now that they trust us) and successful execution of the clear, hold and build strategy. While others attribute it to the weather.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 9:59 PM
One foot in reality?
Statements of AP’s like
are virtually the definition of cynicism – in this case a prediction that the President will, if necessary, lie about the course of events for the sake of political expediency. To me, that smacks more of the “reality-based community” than mature realism.
As for uninformed commentary:
That’s a drastic and misleading oversimplification, strictly for the purpose of emphasizing doubts about Maliki in the next sentence. I’d recommend the recent SMALL WARS JOURNAL article by David Kilcullen for a much more thoughtful view.
CK MacLeod on September 3, 2007 at 10:04 PM
Yeah Micheal, just tell your buddies it’s “just the weather” ….Tis too will pass…
I’ve been reading your posts here, and I have to just take a moment to thank you….
You are initiating a great debate with “vim and vigor” and not letting up in combating negativity…
Great Job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And thanks for your service….
Mcguyver on September 3, 2007 at 10:14 PM
The original statement doesn’t refer to the total number of deaths for a three-month period, but rather to the drop-off over the course of three Surge months (June, July, and August) from a high in May. In addition, the aggregate oif casualty count figures you refer to include 27 or so deaths due to non-hostile causes (including two significant helicopter crashes as well as death by natural causes). The McClatchy report referred to at the original link from Michael in MI counts deaths by hostile fire.
CK MacLeod on September 3, 2007 at 9:51 PM
Now that is cherry picking if I ever saw it.
I guess you can pound a square peg into a round hole if you hit it enough with a big enough hammer.
BTW, those killed in the helicopter crashes were most likely going by helicopter to avoid IED’s, so I would regard their deaths as combat related.
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 10:22 PM
CK MacLeod – GREAT to see others read Small Wars Journal! That site does not get promoted enough. Some great analysis there. I’m glad you posted that link.
Mcguyver – Thanks for the kudos, but when I said my “buddies in Iraq”, I didn’t mean to imply that I was in the service. I have some friends I know who are in the service and deployed and both my younger brothers are in the Air Force and IL Army National Guard, respectively, but neither are deployed. My youngest brother in the Guard said he was volunteering to join a unit which was going to deploy, but he is not sure if he will be able to get into it.
But unfortunately, the only service that I am doing right now is just trying to keep people from giving up on those who are truly doing the highest service for this country and the world. I just take a more personal attitude about it, because I have friends who are over there who tell me of their success and of their desire to continue helping the Iraqis and building on their progress so far.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 10:27 PM
MB4 – Here is the direct link to the story. In May 2007, they have the deaths at 123. In AUG 2007, they have the deaths at 57.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 9:59 PM
icasualties.org/oif has American troop deaths in May 2007 at 126 (coalition troop deaths at 131), American troop deaths in August 2007 at 81 (coalition troop deaths at 85).
Did they resurrect 24 American troops?
I think they are doing some very fuzzy math here.
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 10:29 PM
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 10:22 PM
I went to iCasualties and while the numbers are not as low as the McClatchy piece, the combat deaths have still gone down compared to the high in May 2007, prior to the beginning of the surge-offensive, which started 17 JUNE 2007.
Obviously though, if you want to focus on the negative and spread negative propaganda to prop up the morale of the enemy, you can interpret the numbers over any number of time periods to show that we are not making progress. Personally, I prefer to see the positive trends. Including analysis such as this: RE: “Why has there been a marked decrease in operations conducted by Al-Qaeda’s Islamic State of Iraq?”
I contend there are two types of people who speak of Iraq.
(1) Those who look at the facts, see the hardships and obstacles and problems and promote them as a reason to give up.
(2) Those who look at the facts, see the hardships and obstacles and problems and present them for the purpose of finding a way to solve them and push forward to progress and succeed.
You and AllahPundit seem to look at every problem and see it as a reason to despair and give up. While I and most of the military blog community and most of those in the military see every problem as something to solve on the way to progress and success.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 10:35 PM
The military blogs I read deal with reality. What goes on here is pessimism, defeatism and fatalism. That does not help the war effort.
The main military blog that I look at http://www.military.com has a good number who have engaged in what you call “pessimism, defeatism and fatalism”. Being unrealistic does not help anything in the long run.
If AllahPundit and Michelle Malkin and Bryan Preston have given up on this war effort then fine, I will stop coming here, because I don’t deal with people who aren’t willing to fight for something in which they believe.
Have you fought in Iraq or Afghanistan or if you are older in Vietnam?
Our troops deserve MUCH more from all of us.
Has it occured to you that many/most of the troops might actually want to come home?
Especially from those who have a LOT of influence with political blogs such as HotAir.
HotAir has virtually no influence on the war one way or the other.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 9:45 PM
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 10:40 PM
Talk about round pegs and square holes! I still contend that you’re a Kos Kid come in on the last open reg day. You’re “analysis” is consistently negative, pessimistic, cynical, and defamatory of the motives of war supporters. It’s possible you’re just a bitter person in general, but I don’t think so. I think you’re waging your own version of psy-ops here. Thankfully, at this late stage every one whose prejudices might make them susceptible to being peeled off have already left the “victory caucus”. So MB4’s tortured missives fall flat.
Maybe you could find a way to blame the figures on “neo-cons” again. That at least seems to be an avenue which still might find purchase. As long as you’re more discreet this time in hinting that you really mean Jews.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 10:48 PM
Obviously though, if you want to focus on the negative and spread negative propaganda to prop up the morale of the enemy
If you are implying that I am on the side of the enemy, even “assuming” that the enemy is hanging on my every word which is quite an absurd assumption, then you are nuts.
Personally, I prefer to see the positive trends.
I prefer to look at the whole picture and not cherry pick or do “fuzzy” math.
I contend there are two types of people who speak of Iraq.
(1) Those who look at the facts, see the hardships and obstacles and problems and promote them as a reason to give up.
(2) Those who look at the facts, see the hardships and obstacles and problems and present them for the purpose of finding a way to solve them and push forward to progress and succeed.
There are two kinds of people in the world, those who think that there are two kinds of people and those who don’t.
You and AllahPundit seem to look at every problem and see it as a reason to despair and give up. While I and most of the military blog community and most of those in the military see every problem as something to solve on the way to progress and success.
You would make some football team a good cheerleader assuming of course that they wanted you as one.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 10:35 PM
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 10:51 PM
I still contend that you’re a Kos Kid come in on the last open reg day.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 10:48 PM
And you still contend wrongly. You are 3200 mils out.
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 10:54 PM
Listen to the good ‘Captain’ MBposer….
He is the gentleman who informed me that we had no armor in Iraq and IF there was it was ‘borrowed’. Of course this came as a complete shock to the father of a M1 Abrams tank commander. I didn’t know his tank was a fantasy. I can tell you I gave the Army a quick call to tell them how the cow ate the cabbage.
If you want the ‘facts’ just wait around….MBposer will provide them for you.
Limerick on September 3, 2007 at 10:56 PM
Michael in MI: Don’t bother feeding the trolls here. MB4 is a troll. And I don’t think Allah or Bryan or Michelle are as pessimistic as you think they are. Ease up.
Which is why you spend so much time in the comments secion bad-mouthing our efforts in Iraq.
Of course they do. The question is not do they want to, it’s should they come home and when and under what conditions. It’s a war, not an assignment.
Chickenhawk? Seriously? That’s the best you can do? Give it up MB4. Go home. Nobody’s buying your defeatist rhetoric here.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 10:58 PM
I think you’re waging your own version of psy-ops here.
Although it has been a while, I was trained as an 1193 and an 8105, neither is “psy-ops”.
As long as you’re more discreet this time in hinting that you really mean Jews.
Now you are REALLY sounding like an I’ll just make something nasty up out of thin air ad Hominem KosKid.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 10:48 PM
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 11:01 PM
Then you truly are ignorant. HotAir has influence on informing its readers and on the will of its readers to support the war effort. Many people here respect Michelle Malkin, Bryan Preston and AllahPundit enough that they take their word as “gospel” truth. So when they write something, many people are influenced by that.
Do you also believe that HotAir and Michelle Malkin had no influence on the illegal immigration debate one way or the other?
The military blogs have had a HUGE influence on my life and, as a result, they have had a huge influence on the lives of the people within my circle of family, friends and coworkers and “online friends.” Back in February when the Gathering of Eagles was first forming, I started a movement on MySpace to get people to put the Gathering of Eagles logo as their “default picture” on their page… in order to draw more attention to the cause and spread the word about it. I also sent the info on to all my friends, family, coworkers and “online friends” through e-mail. The result was that hundreds of people on MySpace alone spread the word about Gathering of Eagles and many more people found out about it who otherwise would not have.
Based on that alone, I truly believe that one person can make a difference.
And I believe that HotAir has much influence and makes a huge difference by reaching MANY, MANY more people than just me alone. With just my effort, I reached my circle of people, who passed on the info to their circle who passed it on to theirs, etc… With HotAir and Michelle Malkin, I would guess they have thousands of readers who pass on what they read to their circle who pass it on, etc etc etc. No, the influence is not as massive as the mass media, but it is still there.
Just as the military blogs have changed my life with regards to my respect and admiration for the military community and with respect to my understanding of the military, military science, military planning and strategy and military history… HotAir has probably changed the lives of many with regards to understanding and being informed about politics. I know, prior to HotAir, I learned so much from Michelle Malkin’s site and I spread that around to everyone I knew, especially those pictures during the illegal immigration rallies. They had a major influence on people I knew who didn’t have the time to look up the stuff themselves on their own time, but looked at it since I sent it to them.
This goes on with numerous people. So to say that HotAir has no influence on the war is naive. We all have influence on the war effort.
As the saying goes, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Negativity, pessimism and fatalism is not part of the solution. It is contagious though. Afterall, misery loves company. Maybe AllahPundit has given up and is permeating this blog with pessimism, because he wants others to join him in his fatalism.
I dunno. All I know is that each of the major political blogs and military blogs has influence on the war effort. Without the military blogs, I would probably be as pessimistic as Allahpundit or as apathetic as most Americans. But those military members decided to do something small by writing down their thoughts and getting the facts out there about the military community and they affected this one American in a major way with their efforts. As a result, they have created a major supporter of the war effort who works every day to get out the positive stories of success and progress of the war effort.
We all have influence in this war effort. Every single one of us. We can choose to influence it in a positive way or a negative way. I choose positive.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 11:04 PM
That’s not really the point here Limerick. I agree with Michael, the Apologist and others that the defeatism demonstrated here at Hot Air and the lack of support for victory in Iraq is less than 8 degrees of separation from Kos.
MB4, I have no doubt that the troops want to come home just as much as we all want them to come home. But .. I personally want them to come home triumphant and not in retreat. I don’t want the next generation to have to go back and do in Iraq what we should have done in 91.
Texas Gal on September 3, 2007 at 11:06 PM
The head Kos himself is ex-mil. Mil and ex-mil can be Kos Kids, MBposer. Look at Beauchamp. Or maybe you’re just making the distinction that you haven’t yet registered at the site yet. You should. You’ll find a very receptive audience over there for your missives. They hate the President even more than you do.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 11:06 PM
Chickenhawk? Seriously? That’s the best you can do? Give it up MB4. Go home. Nobody’s buying your defeatist rhetoric here.
Did I say chickenhawk? However it is of course perfectly fine for you to call me a defeatist or a troll or a Kos Kid or all manner of things. Yup that really makes sense. You are a very silly and shallow person or you are playing one on this blog. BTW, I am home now.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 10:58 PM
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 11:09 PM
Yeah I finally have realized that about MB4, The Apologist. I am acting accordingly to his/her posts now. I haven’t gotten familiar enough with all the commenters here to realize who is genuine and who is just a troll.
As far as AllahPundit and Bryan and Michelle, I don’t truly believe they are as pessimistic as I may have implied in my comment. AllahPundit maybe, but I see the work that Michelle does on her site and I have seen her link to the military blogs a lot more often lately and I have been impressed and thankful for that. Bryan doesn’t post enough, in my opinion, but when he does, he usually is positive.
But AllahPundit pretty much rules HotAir and posts I would guess 75% of the blog posts. And Michelle Malkin is his boss, so what he does reflects upon her. I recall reading a comment from AllahPundit in an illegal immigration thread where he stated that he basically had the duty to post on the illegal immigration topic, because it is an important topic for Michelle Malkin. So taking that comment and knowledge, it leads me to believe that Michelle Malkin does not make the same demands of AllahPundit about inspiring support for the war effort here at HotAir. So while I don’t believe Michelle Malkin is pessimistic on the war, she allows AllahPundit to spread his pessimism, where she wouldn’t do so with regards to Illegal Immigration. That is worrisome.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 11:12 PM
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 11:06 PM
So now I am like Kos himself AND an MBposer AND Beauchamp AND I hate the President? Wow! I feel like I am debating with a troubled person with a very vivid imagination. You sound so silly. Am I on candid camera?
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 11:15 PM
I think you’ve forgotten the last time we exchanged views MB4. It was weeks ago, maybe months. But the one thing I remember very clearly from that exchange was your obsession with “neo-cons”, which everyone knows is hard right and hard left code for Jewish conservative. You referenced several articles that hinted at neo-con conspiracies vis a vis American foriegn policy.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 11:16 PM
Respect you and you are completely correct in your point that I am off point.
I’ve been nice for several months. Not feed the lead troll here. Tonight is special. MBposer is the Beauchamp of this blog. The one major flaw in his ‘background’ (which is a skidmark) is his 4 year e-1 to Captain rating and THEN DISCHARGE.
There are two and only two explanations to that scenario.
1. His OER was in the negative numbers.
2. He is Scott Beauchamp.
Tired of NOT confronting this poser for who IT is. While I’ve been good and followed the rules I just felt like it is time to make him use google again to figure out what the hell I’m talking about.
Limerick on September 3, 2007 at 11:17 PM
MB: I call you a defeatist because you are. I say you hate the President because you’ve made it consistently clear you very strongly dislike him. I reference Beauchamp to illustrate that even members of the military can be Kos Kidz. I said I think you’re a Kos Kid because your rhetoric, your sources, your reasoning, and your attitude mimic them closely. If you’re not a member yet, you should sign up over there. They feel the same way about the war that you do. I think you’d find it a more welcoming environment.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 11:25 PM
What has to be understood by the troops, as they kill jihadis and prevent the oil wealth of Iraq from being used to fund terror, is that Islam prevents Muslims from befriending “infidel dogs”. (”Take not Jews nor Christians as your friends...”)
So, whatever appears to be going on upon the surface with the Iraqis (who look down on the “foreign Crusaders” as inferiors who have accidentally been permitted by Allah to gain temporary technological advantage over the Muslim betters) , they are essentialy bowing to the current demands of realpolitik and will cynically smile in order to pilfer our technologies, techniques, and tactics in order to turn them against us in the future.
We allowed Sharia Law to be enshrined in their Constitution, which was an astounding act of self-undermining stupidity.
Meaning: we weren’t serious about turning Iraq into a true secular democracy from which a real ally might develop- by force of our will- and, instead, went for a quick and cheap Constitutional process, and a ‘get it done and get it over with’ nation-building foundation.
Which means Iraq will be an Islamic Republic when we leave, no more useful to our security than Saudi Arabia.
Prey to the Caliphate dream. (Or Imamate, in the Shi’ite formula.)
The best that can be hoped for is: kill jihadis, control the oil, hem in Iran, and learn from this half-hearted effort, by half-informed leaders, who have yet to do their homework on Islam, its texts, and its imperialistic aims that:
-we have a lot more of this fight coming thanks to not crushing the Jihad ideologically now.
The real war is against the terroristic tenets of Islam.
When does that begin?
profitsbeard on September 3, 2007 at 11:25 PM
Michael in MI: Don’t bother feeding the trolls here. MB4 is a troll.
Yeah I finally have realized that about MB4
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 11:12 PM
If you really believe that then you have very poor judgment then, very poor indeed and you need to work on that.
BTW, on the mater of “my ignorance”, as far as HotAir’s influence, if I were to ask a hundred people (maybe even a thousand) out in the world if they ever even heard of HotAir, no offense to HotAir, probably not even one would know that I was even talking about a blog. You need to get out and about more. I must say that some folks here sure do not have much tolerance for someone with a differing opinion. That’s no way to be.
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 11:33 PM
profitsbeard on September 3, 2007 at 11:25 PM
I completely agree. Especially with our screw-up with not demanding that the Iraqi government be secular, instead of allowing it to be based on Islamic sharia law.
However, I think we have to go in baby steps. A LOT has been accomplished simply in winning hearts and minds of a lot of the every day Iraqi people, especially the children. They will remember the toys, the friendly Marines who gave them soccer balls, the Marines who helped rebuild their schools and protect their cities and homes from the terrorists. They will remember Americans as kind people and will not be subject to the same type of anti-Jew, anti-America brainwashing that goes on in places such as “Palestine”.
Yes, we still need to defeat the ideology of Islam. We haven’t even come close to even attempting to understand that here in the West, let alone here in America. It is going to take a VERY LONG time before that happens. But, in the meantime, it doesn’t hurt to first show the people of the Middle East our compassionate side, our giving side, our strength and our protective side and the side of us that we will sacrifice our best people for the sake of strangers to have a better life. The first part of transforming the Middle East is to break down the walls of propaganda and ignorance there. Afghanistan and Iraq are only the first baby steps in that process.
Unfortunately, most people do not understand this. It is going to take a massive, steady movement of educating and informing people of the long-term goals before we can see steady progress.
With that said, simply being fatalistic and giving up on everything now does nothing to further our goals.
Michael in MI on September 3, 2007 at 11:34 PM
MB: I call you a defeatist because you are.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 11:25 PM
OK then, I can get down in the gutter with you.
I call you an slandering idiot because you are.
MB4 on September 3, 2007 at 11:37 PM
You’re right in a strictly dogmatic way. And there are many Muslims who are strictly dogmatic. But most aren’t. Just as most Christians don’t conform completely to Christ’s message and most free-marketeers don’t follow free-markets completely and on and on and on. It is an ideological war, but the effort is to moderate the Muslims who practice the religion seriously and provide alternative methods for living for those who are only nominally Muslim. Democracy is the gateway for that. More needs to be done to confront the part you’re talking about, but what we’re doing now is setting the foundation for that fight to occur. Politically shaping the battlefield.
It isn’t as bad as it seems. You should read Walid Phares’s new book, The War of Ideas. It’s an excellent history and it’s definitely an alarming story, but he has some ideas on where we can go from here.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 11:41 PM
I apologize if I misread you. Frankly I was a little caught off guard by your comments compared to what I’ve read from you before.
Texas Gal on September 3, 2007 at 11:42 PM
No problem TG…..none-a-tal…..
Sure my son wants to be home instead of Iraq. Doesn’t mean a damn thing. He is a professional. He is a volunteer. He signed on and he believes his word means something. Not just to the people he gave his word to but to him. Better man then I’ll ever be.
Like many here I have been falling off the GW wagon because of domestic issues and war ROEs. But damn proud to see him there. Damn proud that for all his faults he believes.
The dems are getting put in a box. They know that they only have a year and the war will be THEIR BABY (if polling trends keep going the way they are). Good luck Dems appeasing your base and fighting the war at the same time.
Limerick on September 3, 2007 at 11:50 PM
Whateva. You’re still a defeatist, you still want us to give up and go home, you still have no faith in the Iraqi people. That’s my beef with you and from time to time I’ll fight with you here in the comments when I get tired of letting your defeatism go unchallenged. Call me whatever you like. Believe me, your opinion of me is the least of my concerns.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 11:50 PM
Limerick, firstly thanks to your son and his commitment to our country. Secondly, I kinda think he’s a reflection of his parents.. :)
Yes, I know that some have fallen off the GWB wagon over domestic issues, but for me that’s really not the priority of my time. I applaud W for having the fortitude to take this fight to our enemy. I’ve been waiting many years for us to finally stand and fight this enemy.
Texas Gal on September 4, 2007 at 12:03 AM
:)
Limerick on September 4, 2007 at 12:05 AM
I’ve been nice for several months. Not feed the lead troll here. Tonight is special. MBposer is the Beauchamp of this blog. The one major flaw in his ‘background’ (which is a skidmark) is his 4 year e-1 to Captain rating and THEN DISCHARGE.
There are two and only two explanations to that scenario.
1. His OER was in the negative numbers.
2. He is Scott Beauchamp.
Tired of NOT confronting this poser for who IT is. While I’ve been good and followed the rules I just felt like it is time to make him use google again to figure out what the hell I’m talking about.
Limerick on September 3, 2007 at 11:17 PM
Groundhog day, the movie all over again?
And Ad Hominem big time all over again too. One more time (maybe it is actually the second “one more time”), as this should be about the issues, NOT your “fascination or whatever” with me or a bunch of ad hominems and it’s all getting very boring too.
1) Basic training, 2 months – E1.
2) AIT, 2 months – E2.
3) Artillery OCS, 6 months – E5 (more of a pay grade than a rank), U.S Army Field Artillery School class one three six niner or 13-69 for you civilians.
4) O1, 12 months.
5) O2, 12 months.
6) O3, 7 months.
7) Volunteered, they wanted me to stay, for the O2/O3 RIF for the big downsizing as the Vietnam war and U.S. Army size was “winding down”.
8) Civilian.
Tens of thousands did it that way during the late sixties/early seventies. I repeat, tens of thousands. It was nothing unusual. Ask Tommy Franks sometime, if you ever see him, as he did it the very same way, although he obviously did not volunteer for the RIF.
And now I am even Beauchamp?
Why do I even bother?
You are so silly.
BTW, It was 3 years, 5 months and 10 days, not four years and I had two OER’s of 93. I had a third and last one in RVN I would imagine, but left before it was written as they had moved up everyones DEROS who was leaving in Febuary 1972 to Janurary 1972.
Is there no one who reads this blog who went to Army OCS in 1969 or at all? Any reasonable/rational facsimile?
MB4 on September 4, 2007 at 12:09 AM
Amazing MBposer. Truly amazing. A OCS with no 6 year commitment. But then again….
Gotcha!
Night ‘Captain’
Limerick on September 4, 2007 at 12:12 AM
The Apologist-
I wish GWB, Rice, Gates and Petraus would show some signs of reading W. Phares, R. Spencer, I. Warriq, B. Yeor, N. Darwish, A. Hirsi Ali, etc. (I know Brigitte “Why They Hate” Gabriel gave a lecture to a military college class of officers, which is a good sign.)
Luckily for us, most Muslims only follow their faith in the ritual and ceremonial sense, and not in Bin Laden’s fanatical form.
Their lack of seriousness about their religion is our best hope.
But the percentage who are true believers (possibily millions), who have access to modern technology (the internet for propaganda), advanced weaponry, and strategies, can cause us a world of hurt.
Boxcutters, $500k and 19 homicidal fanatics have so far cost us about around 7,000 dead, and a trillion dollars in treasure (terrorist attacks, ongoing war, new security measures, et al), so the sooner the “Religion of Peace” silliness is shunted aside and a more counter-ideological -counter-the-violent-dogmas-of-the-Koranic- effort is begun, the safer we’ll be.
We need to enforce and spread our core beliefs (secular Constitution, human rights, freedoms of thought, press, conscience, and belief, and the equality of men and women), or we are merely replacing one type of despotism (Baathist) for another (Islamic).
If we don’t fight the causes of the holy terrorism now, while we have the clear military and technological edge, it won’t get any easier -as those seeking our destruction regroup, re-arm, and hit us from a different direction.
This is a war of ideas more than arms.
But only the enemy seems to have a clear vision of what it is fighting for.
We are dangerously divided in our country and in the West, and our leaders are in massive denial about the central teachings of Islam. (Global conquest and establishment of a theocratic tyranny being their true believers’- not “hijackers’”- fondest wish.)
Our scholars, artists, politicians, etc. should be honestly critiquing the Koran’s dismal dogmas, publically, and vigorously challenging Muslims to reform the terror out of their faith.
Until we do, they get a free pass to slip under our radar and strike again.
profitsbeard on September 4, 2007 at 12:16 AM
Whateva. You’re still a defeatist, you still want us to give up and go home, you still have no faith in the Iraqi people. That’s my beef with you and from time to time I’ll fight with you here in the comments when I get tired of letting your defeatism go unchallenged. Call me whatever you like. Believe me, your opinion of me is the least of my concerns.
The Apologist on September 3, 2007 at 11:50 PM
Defeatist, defeatist, defeatist, ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat!!!
If you have so much faith in the “Iraqi people” you really need to educate yourself over at Robert Spencer’s and Hugh Fitzgerald’s http://www.jihadwatch.com sometime.
BTW, anyone who has read my comments on most subjects other than Iraq could not possibly rationally think me from KOS.
MB4 on September 4, 2007 at 12:17 AM
I have. If you’ll read my post at 11:41 PM you’ll see my response to your suggestion.
The Apologist on September 4, 2007 at 12:25 AM
Amazing MBposer. Truly amazing. A OCS with no 6 year commitment. But then again….
Gotcha!
Night ‘Captain’
Limerick on September 4, 2007 at 12:12 AM
I was in the inactive reserves (that means that you do NOT, I repeat do NOT go to 2 week “summer camp” or “a weekend a month whatevers” and the like) till six years after graduating from OCS, but it was “irrelevant” as it did not involve doing ANYTHING AT ALL.
Now I suppose if North Korea had invaded South Korea or the U.S.S.R had invaded Germany within that 6 years I would have been called back in, but they didn’t and I wasn’t. I was totally a civilian the day after I got out of the Army.
You didn’t “gotcha” anything. Don’t delude yourself.
What you have got is a very bad case of being clueless!
Night ‘Einstein’
- Civilian for a long time now
MB4 on September 4, 2007 at 12:36 AM
sleep well ‘Captain’. By the way was that RA or US?
Limerick on September 4, 2007 at 12:37 AM
You sleep well too ‘Einstein’.
BTW, did you get your ability as a detective from a correspondence course or is it genetic?
If you got it from a correspondence course you should ask for a full refund.
If it is genetic, I don’t believe that science has advanced far enough to be of any help, sorry.
MB4 on September 4, 2007 at 12:57 AM
BTW Limerick, I don’t seem to recall your ever posting any limericks. At least with your name you could post a few anyway. I have in the past posted such and the like. Let’s see some of yours sometime. I promise not to be too critical.
MB4 on September 4, 2007 at 1:01 AM
My experience tells me it is genetic and science has nothing to do with it!
Texas Gal on September 4, 2007 at 1:15 AM
Somebody call for a limerick?
Rush To Die
_________
There once was a prophet named Mo
Who was never quite sure where to go
Till an ‘angel’ appeared
And then yanked on his beard
Saying: I’m really not Satan, you know.
(Anyone who has read the Koran will get that this is the constant, bizarre subtext of the book.)
profitsbeard on September 4, 2007 at 1:36 AM
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.
- Holmes
MB4 on September 4, 2007 at 1:37 AM
Bukhari:V4B54N516 “The Prophet said, ‘If anyone rouses from sleep and performs ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blow it out thrice because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.’”
MB4 on September 4, 2007 at 1:40 AM
Please ignore the troll. Trolls love attention and MB4 has received 99 percent of the attention on this post.
I know it is hard but do not talk to trolls.
Now that that is out of the way, I should say that having what may be considered pessimistic posts by the likes of AP should not be discouraged. Why? because APs writing is a combination of reporting the facts and analysis. Anyone with a better knowledge of the situation than portrayed in the media will be able to distinguish between reporting of facts (Bush says ‘America won’t abandon the Iraqi people’ and the attendant rhetoric -AP writes “Congress will have something to say about that, I imagine.”)
Think of APs post as a good training tool for those of us who read, listen and watch the MSM, including the cable channels. Listen, or read, for the facts, then evaluate the amplifying rhetoric.
davod on September 4, 2007 at 4:42 AM
PS:
I should also say that Aps posts give others the opportunity to post counter arguments (all the while ignoring the trolls).
davod on September 4, 2007 at 4:44 AM
Please ignore the troll. Trolls love attention and MB4 has received 99 percent of the attention on this post.
I know it is hard but do not talk to trolls.
davod on September 4, 2007 at 4:42 AM
How intellectually vacuous.
MB4 on September 4, 2007 at 5:02 AM
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