Nonfactor on August 31, 2007 at 3:28 PM

What drugs are you taking, son? (Or not taking?)

Bryan, you do realize there were reports on this armor before NBC did one?

You act like this is the first post on HotAir covering this topic. Where the F have you been, sport?

I’d be willing to say NBC wouldn’t have covered it at all if there weren’t tests shows and articles about it already.

Climb down from that limb, son… wouldn’t want you to get hurt. There’s a good 1-inch drop to the ground at least and from what I can tell, you’ll still manage to fall and injure yourself.

To act as if this is all NBC’s fault that Dragonskin is being talked about …

Do you have a general problem with reading comprehension that we should know about, or does it only show up here?

W/all due respect the “act” is somewhat the opposite: NBC is one of the last ones to talk about the story, so they have the least excuse of all – no excuse not to know Pinnacle’s testing program is biased, no excuse to be ignorant of the Dragonskin’s problems, and no excuse not to know that those problems – and not some red herring – are the reason things are the way they are.

…really shows how much you want to stretch (I still chuckle every time I think of the words “emotional terrorism”).

And I chuckle every time I hear the words “Nonfactor” and “reading comprehension” in the same sentence.

But their coverage of the war on terror, Iraq, or anything related is replete with standard left-wing narrative. And if the people who reply in the threads are indicative of their general readership, they cater to a whole lot of 9/11 Truther types.

The only contributor on war related subjects who has anything insightful or interesting to say is David Axe, and he has his own blog anyway.

Guardian on August 31, 2007 at 12:21 PM
Spc Steve on August 31, 2007 at 1:50 PM

Absolute moral authority: The real thing. Thanks for weighing in, guys, and thank you for serving.

Echoed.

Bryan on August 31, 2007 at 3:45 PM
American_Jihadist on August 31, 2007 at 4:09 PM

It’s an honor and a privilege to serve. Thanks guys.

We are man for man the best trained and best equipped military on the planet, and that’s good enough for us. Why isn’t it good enough for the nation we’re sworn to defend?

Spc Steve on August 31, 2007 at 1:50 PM

Because, sir, there is money to be made by panicking the parents and wives of heroes like you. Facts need not interfere. They simply get in the way of a fast buck squeezed from emotion.

Guardian on August 31, 2007 at 12:21 PM
Spc Steve on August 31, 2007 at 1:50 PM

Absolute moral authority: The real thing. Thanks for weighing in, guys, and thank you for serving.

Bryan on August 31, 2007 at 2:37 PM

I personally don’t think absolute moral authority exists for any human being; but on this particular topic, those who have to utilize the equipment come as close as one could ever get.

Thank you to all three of you, Guardian, Steve and Bryan for service past and present.

Nonfactor on August 31, 2007 at 3:28 PM

Stupid post of the day goes to Nonfactor. I linked not one but two stories about this controversy in this post, one a year old and one that’s two years old. You do the math, big guy. Was May 17, 2007 more or less than a year ago?

If it was more, what does that do to your attack on me as though I’m unaware of any story prior to NBC’s?

My beef with NBC is that they misidentified an expert and let Pinnacle control their test, and passed all that off as objective journalism while accusing the Army of bias, and caused a panic among military families in the process. You seem to have no problem with any of that.

19 pounds might not seem that bad.

I couldn’t imagine adding 19 pounds to the pack I carry when camping/hiking… and the worst thing I have to worry about is not getting to the next site before the s’mores are gone.

So even though you may start out at 5’5” and 150 lbs, you’re essentially working as someone who’s 5’5″ and 210 lbs. I’m just trying to imagine someone with those “specs” conducting combat operations.

Guardian on August 31, 2007 at 12:21 PM
Spc Steve on August 31, 2007 at 1:50 PM

Absolute moral authority: The real thing. Thanks for weighing in, guys, and thank you for serving.

19 pounds might not seem that bad. I suppose it’s worse for me; I’m 5’5″ and 150 lbs. But once you add in the “battle rattle” of ammunition, weapon, hydration, helmet, breaching gear, radios, and whatever else, you start talking about a pretty decent amount of weight. I had somewhere around 60+ pounds of gear. And I had to conduct combat operations; running, yelling, aiming and firing my weapon under high stress conditions, all while wearing 60+ pounds of stuff. Adrenaline will only take you so far. Many people have already shunned the extra parts that have been issued for the IBA; miniature plates to cover the sides and shoulders, not because they’re too cumbersome but because they’re too heavy.

It’s funny that, as a soldier, most of us are as comfortable as we can be with our training, of squarely facing a threat, pointing as much of the plate as possible at the enemy, and taking our chances on having a faster trigger finger. We are man for man the best trained and best equipped military on the planet, and that’s good enough for us. Why isn’t it good enough for the nation we’re sworn to defend?

About a year ago, the U.S. Army banned its soldiers from wearing any body armor other than standard-issue Interceptor armor. Surely the Interceptor armor’s as good as anything else, right? Nope. Take for instance Dragon Skin, made by Pinnacle Armor: T…

Karl on August 31, 2007 at 12:14 PM

I’ve seen contractors remove the armor plates and stuff the armor pockets with cardboard or whatever so it LOOKS like they have on their gear.

Now Troops Have Body Armor And They Shun It as ‘Too Heavy’
By ANTONIO CASTANEDA
Associated Press
March 27, 2006

HUSAYBAH, Iraq – Extra body armor – the lack of which caused a political storm in America – has flooded into Iraq, but many Marines here promptly stuck it in lockers or under bunks. Too heavy and cumbersome, many say.

Marines already carry loads as heavy as 70 pounds when they patrol the dangerous streets in towns and villages in restive Anbar province. The new armor plates, while only about five pounds per set, are not worth carrying for the additional safety they are said to provide, some say.

Nuance.

So basically, you are looking at doubling the weight?

taznar on August 31, 2007 at 11:53 AM

I think I addressed that in one of my posts, but I might not have. I’m pretty sure it’s in the Vent that we did. At comparable sizes and configurations, the Interceptor is about 28 lbs. The Dragon Skin is about 47 lbs. When you add a weapon, ammo, helmet and other gear, that 19 lbs is a significant difference. When I had the two vests, all I had to do was pick up one and then the other and the difference was more than obvious.

And the vests weigh about 20 pounds more than the standard issue Interceptor vest

I keep hearing that, and one question pops into my mind. How heavy is “the standard issue Interceptor vest”?

From reading several of the articles, mostly from Bryan, but other sources as well I don’t believe the Dragon Skin can sustain multiple hits and remain effective.

Actually, from what I have read and seen it can take multiple hits, but they must be from directly from the front/back. Side and angle shots seem to be the issue, those can and do penetrate.

The next generation vests were a few layers of kevlar which were flexible and may stop frag but, again, in no way were rated for even small arms tollerance. They were like wearing a thick wet blanket. I always felt naked when we left the wire wearing them, at least the older flack jackets felt like armor and gave us a psychological sense of security.