Dragon Skin vs Interceptor: Not going away

posted at 9:58 am on August 31, 2007 by Bryan

Is Wired’s Danger Room, a great defense tech and war on terror blog, in the tank for Dragon Skin? I hate to think so, but a post over there today is very suggestive that it is.

Here are the facts. Dragon Skin armor failed the Army’s tests. Pinnacle has been debarred by the Air Force. The DoJ decertified Dragon Skin over a mislabeling issue. And the vests weigh about 20 pounds more than the standard issue Interceptor vest, which in and of itself is a serious flaw. And US troops have offered testimonials in favor of Interceptor. And a Pinnacle expert testified this summer that Dragon Skin vests “weren’t ready for prime time”.

But none of that appears in this post over at Danger Room. What we get instead is a rehashing of quotes that are a year and two years old, and touting of one more test that Pinnacle conducted on its own vests, on its own property. Here’s a two-year-old quote from Neal.

“It the Not-Invented-Here syndrome and the Old Boy Network,” he told me. “Some suppliers are preferred over others. The Pentagon are reluctant to buy from ‘outsiders’.”

Neal was so empathic on this point that I thought he must be exaggerating. But subsequent events suggest he may have a point. Last year Karl Masters who organized the US Army’s testing revealed a slight conflict of interest :

“I was recently tasked by the army to conduct the test of the 30 Dragon Skin SOV 3000 level IV body armor purchased for T&E [tests and evaluation],” Masters wrote in a 6 June posting. “My day job is acting product manager for Interceptor Body Armor.”*

Why Danger Room is writing about this now is somewhat mysterious, since the Neal quotes are two years old and the Masters quote is a year old. Nothing in the Wired post is new, except the test being touted by Soldiers for the Truth, which has long been in Dragon Skin’s corner. They’re not objective. The post’s author, David Hambling, is just rehashing old stuff that everyone familiar with the issue already knows, but those who aren’t familiar with the ins and outs of the armor war might find supportive of Dragon Skin and damaging to the Army and Interceptor. Left out of his post, is anything about the inherently flawed tests that NBC aired, which were under the control of Pinnacle CEO Neal, or any of the evidence that Neal has been using shows like Future Weapons and Mail Call to run what amounts to a misinformation campaign to tout Dragon Skin. Also left out, the more recent Hill testimony, Coyle’s admission, or the Army’s very strong statements in its own defense, which I’ve covered here extensively.

I don’t have a dog in this fight. I do think that Dragon Skin has inherent flaws that have to be addressed before Neal should even think about having it retested for use in combat. One, the weight. At about 19 pounds heavier than comparably sized Interceptor, Dragon Skin is just too heavy. You can charge the testing manager with conflict of interest, but the weight differential is just a stubborn fact that he can’t influence. I made the weight decision myself before going to Iraq: I had an Interceptor vest in one hand and a Dragon Skin vest in the other, and because Dragon Skin was very noticeably heavier, I went with Interceptor. When you’re going into potential combat, every ounce counts. Two, the fact that scaled armor is vulnerable from angled shots in ways that plate armor isn’t. It’s just a fact of life that a lucky shot from a rear and side angle has a better chance of getting through Dragon Skin than Interceptor. Dragon Skin did in fact fail the Army’s test, and was penetrated multiple times when a single penetration is a failure. Neal should also address the temperature and oil issues that the Army’s testing brought to light, outside labs that he owns and controls. I do find it curious that Danger Room is touting a test that Pinnacle conducted on its own property and controlled from beginning to end, yet believes that the Army’s tests were flawed by conflict of interest because of Masters’ presence. The Army’s tests weren’t conducted on the manufacturer’s property, for goodness sake. They were conducted in either of the two independent labs that the Army has certified for this work. Pinnacle’s back lot isn’t one of those two labs.

This goes to show what friendly media can get you. NBC’s deeply flawed May 17 story has kept this issue alive long past the point when it ought to have collapsed of its own weight. Danger Room ought to provide more complete and objective coverage of this story. With its Dragon Skin post today, it’s in danger of becoming one more Murray Neal shill.

*Note. The above paragraph:

“I was recently tasked by the army to conduct the test of the 30 Dragon Skin SOV 3000 level IV body armor purchased for T&E [tests and evaluation],” Masters wrote in a 6 June posting. “My day job is acting product manager for Interceptor Body Armor.”

Was originally posted on ProfessionalSoldiers.com.


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Awww c’mon, it’s not like Bostonians could get sick from something people put in the water supply or anything…

To be fair, “attacking” a reservoir is massive undertaking…It’s not exactly like you are putting cyan!de into Aunt Esther’s lemonade. Any adulteration involves a massive volume of chemicals and an equally complex means to mix those chemicals into a fairly substantial volume of water.

JFKY on May 16, 2013 at 2:00 PM

Obama said today that he does NOT support an Independet Counsel being appointed for ANY of the scandals….

The bottom line is if Holder des not call for an Independent Counsel it will NOT HAPPEN, they will be able to get away with all of it, & there is nothing anyone can do about it.

easyt65 on May 16, 2013 at 2:01 PM

MY Preezy? If he’s mine, he’s just as much yours, isn’t he? Or when did I become a fan of Obama, in your mind?

JFKY on May 16, 2013 at 1:55 PM

:) not yours as in ‘you voted for him’ :), of course not… ‘your preezy’ (and mine too, I suspect, but then I’m in denial :) as in your (and our) collective curse…but only for 2 more years or so…I’m looking fwd to the last two lame duck years of his preezydency…

jimver on May 16, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I think Jon Stewart needs to add to that skit decrying government incompetence highlighted on the Internet a day or two ago.

This is the stuff government needs to be worrying about. Not people wearing “Don’t Tread on Me” shirts.

WTH is going on in this administration.

BuckeyeSam on May 16, 2013 at 2:05 PM

Obama’s administration / term in office so far:

FAILURE & SCANDAL!

easyt65 on May 16, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Brat, great find. Thanks.

Schadenfreude on May 16, 2013 at 2:10 PM

INCOMPETENCE is the hallmark of this administration. Starting in the Oval Office.

GarandFan on May 16, 2013 at 2:10 PM

The U.S. Marshal Service has been “unable to locate” two former participants in the federal Witness Security Program “identified as known or suspected terrorists,” states the public summary of an interim Justice Department Inspector General’s report obtained by CNN

Only credible option: crowdsource.

Names, photos, known acquaintences and known addresses.

Time to take your lumps with the rest of them, US Marshalls.

socalcon on May 16, 2013 at 2:12 PM

jimver on May 16, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I hope and pray, most earnestly, that the last years are mired in controversy and scandal….and a painful inability to accomplish much of anything, I prepare for a “good” 2014.

JFKY on May 16, 2013 at 2:13 PM

“The inspector general’s office says some in the witness protection program who were on the government’s no-fly list were allowed to board commercial flights.”

Well why not? It’s not like they were planning on praying the rosary in front of a Planned Parenthood Clinic or something terroristy like that.

Lily on May 16, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Obama’s administration / term in office so far:

FAILURE & SCANDAL!

Hmmm, scandal has been a feature of many a president’s second term, even if it boiled over from the first.

Maybe a president should only serve one term. That makes for more than enough potential scandal.

hawkeye54 on May 16, 2013 at 2:15 PM

The DoJ also failed to update the Terrorist Screening Center, which runs the no-fly lists

{facepalm}

socalcon on May 16, 2013 at 2:16 PM

I didn’t know about the IG REPORT…(of course, knowing about what the IRS was doing is another story…)

easyt65 on May 16, 2013 at 2:18 PM

hawkeye54 on May 16, 2013 at 2:15 PM

MAYBE we just shouldn’t elect inexperienced Communist-tutored (Frank Marshall Davis) hate-spewing racist Communist-based Black Liberation theology pastor-mentored (Wright), Socialist Ideologist-quoting (Saul Alinsky) Community Organizers as President, especially one who plans to put a scndal-plagued Eric Holder in charge of the DOJ & a tax cheat in charge of the Treasury?! Just saying…

easyt65 on May 16, 2013 at 2:21 PM

I hope and pray, most earnestly, that the last years are mired in controversy and scandal….and a painful inability to accomplish much of anything, I prepare for a “good” 2014.

JFKY on May 16, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Same here…methinks we are getting a preview of how his last two tears in office will look like…good news is that by then his political capital would have been spent and exhausted, so that his lame duck years will be even lamer…all these scandals will take a toll which makes me really optimistic about 2014…

jimver on May 16, 2013 at 2:29 PM

MAYBE we just shouldn’t elect inexperienced Communist-tutored (Frank Marshall Davis) hate-spewing racist Communist-based Black Liberation theology pastor-mentored (Wright), Socialist Ideologist-quoting (Saul Alinsky) Community Organizers as President, especially one who plans to put a scndal-plagued Eric Holder in charge of the DOJ & a tax cheat in charge of the Treasury?! Just saying…

No we shouldn’t have. But Barry was the perfect stooge at the perfect time for this job. His election was carefully coordinated by a crafty organization and abetted by the LSM. It was certainly an effort he could have never have hoped to coordinate on his own.

A mastermind he is not.

hawkeye54 on May 16, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Awww c’mon, it’s not like Bostonians could get sick from something people put in the water supply or anything…

To be fair, “attacking” a reservoir is massive undertaking…It’s not exactly like you are putting cyan!de into Aunt Esther’s lemonade. Any adulteration involves a massive volume of chemicals and an equally complex means to mix those chemicals into a fairly substantial volume of water.

JFKY on May 16, 2013 at 2:00 PM

And don’t they perform daily water test/analysis anyways? you’d think that a basic test would reveal the chemicals that are not supposed to be in there, especially if they are in lethal quantities…it’s not quite the Middle Age with the Borgias or the Medicis poisoning the water wells of their enemies :)…

jimver on May 16, 2013 at 2:37 PM

Probably placed them in a munitions factory…no one would ever look there…

right2bright on May 16, 2013 at 2:51 PM

government is good for you! let’s make it bigger!!

Sachiko on May 16, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Isn’t keeping track of terrorists racist or something?

We’ll have to wait till they join a tea party. Then they’ll find them for sure.

PattyJ on May 16, 2013 at 4:17 PM

The Justice Department’s inspector general says the department failed to provide the names of some terrorists in the witness protection program to the government’s Terrorist Screening Center.The center maintains the watch list that’s used to keep dangerous people off airline flights. …

Which name: their original one, or the one they use in the WPP?
Or the false one they are going to use once they get fake documents?

AesopFan on May 16, 2013 at 4:21 PM

It’s all a conspiracy to deny Hillary her turn at the wheel. Dirty Mysogynysts.

abobo on May 16, 2013 at 5:47 PM

To be fair, “attacking” a reservoir is massive undertaking…
 
JFKY on May 16, 2013 at 2:00 PM

 
And don’t they perform daily water test/analysis anyways? …
 
jimver on May 16, 2013 at 2:37 PM

 
The problem is that any highly-public “attack” would close smaller/on-site reservoirs until they could be tested, drained, cleaned, tested again, verified, etc. Then the equipment. Then the distribution system (the comical part is realizing where the water from the flushed lines would go.)
 
The country re-elected Obama. It’s not a stretch that many or most of them would think one gallon of ________ in a 100 million gallon tank would kill them.

rogerb on May 16, 2013 at 8:46 PM

There are two ways to go after a reservoir.

First is the water, but that hasn’t been treated yet so you are unlikely to do much there.

Second is the dam, which is an earthen dike for the Quabbin Reservoir.

I have a t-shirt around here someplace that says: ‘There is no problem that can’t be solved with the suitable application of high explosives.’

ajacksonian on May 16, 2013 at 9:06 PM

“Man arrested at Boise Bench home on terrorism charges…

BOISE — Federal agents have arrested 30-year-old Fazliddin Kurbanov, who was living at a Boise Bench home, as part of a federal terrorism investigation.

The U.S. Attorney says federal terrorism charges were filed Thursday afternoon in Boise and Salt Lake City, Utah.

Kurbanov is an Uzbekistan national and is legally in the United States.

Kurbanov has been indicted by a federal grand jury in Boise on three counts; one count of conspiracy to provide material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization, one count of conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists and one count of possessing an unregistered destructive device.

A federal grand jury in Salt Lake City also returned an indictment charging Kurbanov with one count of distribution of information relating to explosives, destructive devices, and weapons of mass destruction.

Government officials say this arrest was the culmination of an investigation by the FBI’s Salt Lake Division, which covers Idaho and Utah; and Joint Terrorism Task Forces in Idaho and Utah, which include a number of federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies.

Federal agents have been closely monitoring Kurbanov’s activities for any potential threat….

KTVB has learned that Kurbanov has a police record here in Idaho. He was pulled over for traffic violations in three different Idaho counties over the past two years.”

http://www.ktvb.com/news/FBI-conducts-investigation-on-Boise-bench-207753341.html

workingclass artist on May 16, 2013 at 9:08 PM

To be fair, “attacking” a reservoir is massive undertaking…It’s not exactly like you are putting cyan!de into Aunt Esther’s lemonade. Any adulteration involves a massive volume of chemicals and an equally complex means to mix those chemicals into a fairly substantial volume of water. – JFKY on May 16, 2013 at 2:00 PM

Large amounts of ricin can be fairly easily made, radioactive isotopes in even modest amounts can be detected, and botulin is extremely toxic in small amounts. The entire reservoir need not be made highly lethal; detections of toxicity need only be high enough to close down the reservoir for some time and cause fear or even panic. That’s what terror is about.

Of course, these foreign Muslims from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Singapore were trespassing in the middle of the night only for the purposes of making observations of the water supply for their “education and career interests” , and they are not (as the media is making a point of) known to be connected to criminal groups. So nothing to worry about, move along unless you’re a greasy racist Islamophobe.

Chessplayer on May 17, 2013 at 11:21 AM

The picture in the caption is priceless and says it all!

rjoco1 on May 17, 2013 at 11:28 AM

Just as Ed used the word “unexpected” for months (years?) regarding the growth in unemployment, perhaps the word “Incompetent” should be used with this administration every time one of these incredible messups occurs. It’s time that the truth be told – either this administration is really into “changing America as we know it” – that is, changing America to a hunting ground against decent Americans or it is incredibly incompetent and the word must be used.

Who else is getting their phone tapped?

MN J on May 19, 2013 at 11:07 AM

Hello all

can someone tell me what this triple face palm photo is from. I just noticed it reoccurs, anyone?

Thanks in advance.

Observation on May 19, 2013 at 3:53 PM

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