But what do I know, I’m just a Christian, whereas you are not and therefore clearly no more about my faith than I do.

Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 11:41 AM

It’s just ’cause I’m smarter.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:44 AM

Donnie and Marie look to be pretty clean cut to me with few vices.

Mitt also seems to have few vices.

True… true… true, still not a Christian.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:46 AM

Mitt is an East Coast RINO with few if any conservative credentials who has abruptly and drastically shifted right for the primary campaign in a blatantly pandering, dishonest way. That is why I won’t vote for him in the primary or general election should he pull off some huge miracle and get the nomination.

That he’s a Mormon unquestionably hurts his chances to some degree- there are a significant number of people (especially amongst the heavy-voting older folks) who won’t vote for a non-Christian… and many don’t consider Mormons to be Christian.

The founding (and founder) of the Mormon faith is pretty goofy, but that’s beside the point. However, being a Mormon shouldn’t make one less qualified to be President… but in reality it does in the eyes of many- especially on the Republican side.

Hollowpoint on August 30, 2007 at 11:47 AM

Catholics, Shakers, Quakers, fundamentalists, Born-Again, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, followers of Christ, Jehovah’s witnesses, Etc.
Why are there 31 flavors of Christ?
I could easily join anyone of these (or more) churches, (thanks to our wonderful nation in which we are free to worship as we wish.)
but then would i look down upon any of the others?

WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 11:38 AM

The Protestant denominations and the Catholic church fundamentally believe the same thing: we are saved by Grace through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ who is the Son of God and Son of Man. They also believe that God is three in one: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Beyond that, the different denominations worship or administer their churches differently, which is why there is such a variety. But at the core, the belief is the same.

Other religions such as LDS, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Christian Scientists do not share these same basic beliefs. JW’s believe in one God, not three in one, and that Jesus is not God, but rather a creation of Jehovah. The Holy Spirit is not God but a force from Jehovah. Christian Scientists are closer to eastern religions that God is a force and that Jesus was not Christ but one who displayed the Christ idea e.g. perfection. The Holy Spirit is an impersonal power rather than God. These are examples of why these are not Christian religions.

Mallard T. Drake on August 30, 2007 at 11:50 AM

I love Christoph’s debate strategy of professing a particular poster is “not smart.” Brilliant!

Zetterson on August 30, 2007 at 11:51 AM

Mitt is an East Coast RINO with few if any conservative credentials

There’s the point I made above. If I was more cynical, I would say at this point - Who are you that you would judge another’s conservatism?

(or, is that, “Who art thou that thou wouldst judgeth…whatever.)

nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 11:55 AM

Arrogant is not the same as smart. I’m surprised no one taught you that before.

Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 11:51 AM

No, but in this case I really am smarter.

It’s relative. I’m definitely not smarter than everyone here.

Ponder that.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:56 AM

Except less dramatically so because, thank God, the much more powerful United States was able to pressure the militarist Mormon church under Brigham Young to smarten up somewhat early in its life.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:55 AM

Few wish to remember the actions of BY and his seperatist movement. Took the Army to quell that problem.

But I wouldn’t paint Mitt with that brush, either.

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 11:57 AM

Again, getting back to your lack of intelligence…

I’m only saying that it’s entirely possible for a Mormon to be a Christian, for a Mormon to believe all that God requires of believers. For you to say otherwise is for you to show your…

What I’ve said is this:

Yes, in the end, if there is a God, God Himself and no one else shall pass judgment on Mitt Romney, Mother Theresa (who may or may not succeed in meeting the test) and Osama bin Laden, whom I earnestly hope does as I hope we all do.

You:

I’m not saying Mitt’s a Christian, but since I’m not God, I’m not saying he isn’t either.

Questions:

Is Osama bin Laden a Christian?

Was Adolf Hitler?

How about Alexander the Great?

Or Socrates?

You’re an idiot.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:01 PM

Yet you Christians are forever vainly taking it upon yourself to speak for God, defining “Christian” to include yourself…

I’m not a Christian, but I think we can safely exclude Socrates.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:04 PM

I’m not convinced that LDS are “Christian”, at least not in the same sense that I am. But, bottom line - WHY IS THIS EVEN AN ISSUE? Mitt should be considered by voters based on his character, leadership ability, his positions on issues that are of interest to all voters (or a particular voter), etc. Whether or nor Mormons are “fit” for office and whether or nor Mormons are “Christian” - these are (or should be) non-issues.

reine.de.tout on August 30, 2007 at 12:09 PM

WHY IS THIS EVEN AN ISSUE?
reine.de.tout on August 30, 2007 at 12:09 PM

It’s a smear that sticks - the left throws it to detract from the message. IF he’s the nominee, many ‘Christians’ will stay home rather than vote for him because they won’t educate themselves.

I’ll say it again: Think President Hillary Clinton.

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 12:12 PM

here is no requirement for the President to be a Christian. We Americans do not need the approval of a mullah, or rabbi, or priest, or BBQ-champin’televangelist to decide who to vote for.

glockman on August 30, 2007 at 12:03 PM

I think that if you go back through the comments you will see that almost every, if not every, Christian in this thread has stated without equivocation that Mitt’s Mormonism does not have an effect on their view of him as a candidate.

nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 12:16 PM

The LDS church lies, Voidseeker, and is built on falsity.

He belongs to a religion that does not teach Jesus is the only Son of God.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:19 AM

I literally laughed out loud. You both are 100% wrong.

They teach many things at different times.

They teach it’s okay to marry many teenage girls, then they don’t.

They teach blacks are not equal, and then they are.

They teach a man should have many wives, indeed, he must to procreate his own world, and they he doesn’t.

They (the Presidency and President, the anointed prophet of God) teach Jesus is the brother of Satan and is NOT the Son of God, then they teach He is.

It’s a cult founded by an evil man that has evolved into a somewhat mainstream religion through no small part because of pressure from the United States at large.

Joseph Fielding Smith Jr.,the LDS prophet, wrote in his work, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, Pg.218 -Pg.219:

We learn from the scriptures that Lucifer — once a son of the morning, who exercised authority in the presence of God before the foundations of this earth were laid — rebelled against the plan of salvation and against Jesus Christ who was chosen to be the Savior of the world and who is spoken of as the ‘Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.’”

In the Discourses of Brigham Young, on Pg.53-54 he lets it be known that Lucifer is the second son, the one known as “Son of the Morning.”

“Who will redeem the earth, who will go forth and make the sacrifice for the earth and all things it contains?” The Eldest Son said: “Here am I”; and then he added, “Send me.” But the second one, which was “Lucifer, Son of the Morning,” said, “Lord, here am I, send me, I will redeem every son and daughter of Adam and Eve that lives on the earth, or that ever goes on the earth.”

There are many more examples.

When I say this was an evil cult, I mean it.

Islam is another example of a false prophet. It’s a more violent example, but mostly because of the time and place it began.

They were both powered by similar forces.

And the early Mormon church, particularly under Brigham Young, was very violent.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:20 PM

Voidseeker on August 30, 2007 at 12:08 PM

Voidseeker, don’t you know that Christoph knows more about your religion than you do? You only practice it regularly but he’s a genius, and you’re probably just an idiot, especially if you believe something that he considers a cult.

Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 12:24 PM

Esthier, don’t you know that you’re defending a religion started by a man caught in an extramarital affair who had a revelation from God about polygamy, made many false prophecies his church covered up, and it gets worse from there?

And you’re criticizing me and not the Satan in your midst?

That’s what I mean. Weak. Fuzzy headed. And fuzzy headed.

Voidseeker is the one, if he’s Mormon, following a Satanic prophet.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:26 PM

Esthier, I know Christoph’s rhetoric can be over the top and rude sometimes (dude, you know it is), but he did say here:

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:03 AM

that he had been a Mormon.

nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 12:28 PM

nailinmyeye, I’m not Christian and I’m certainly not Christ.

But He put things rudely.

Politeness in the face of a false prophet is not a virtue. It simply isn’t.

It’s a human grace, but not a moral one.

Esthier doesn’t get it. Jesus would.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:31 PM

that he had been a Mormon.

nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 12:28 PM

Yeah, I caught that, but like a jilted lover, those who leave a faith are usually the most unreasonably biased against it.

Some of the jerkiest atheists once called themselves a Christian.

Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 12:32 PM

christoph, thank you for the stuff on mormonism, im not a Christian myslef, but its very interesting.

Clearly Romney is going to have to deal with this issue upfront.

zane on August 30, 2007 at 12:34 PM

Can’t we all just get along? And get back to the important work of hating Hillary! and Obamamessiah?

Seriously, I think Jefferson was way off on his religious beliefs too, and he did okay; why not Mitt, if he’s the candidate? The left is baiting us to make this a big issue. Let’s disappoint them.

Laura on August 30, 2007 at 12:34 PM

It’s a cult founded by an evil man that has evolved into a somewhat mainstream religion through no small part because of pressure from the United States at large.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:20 PM

Yeah, and no other church ever did that. I seem to remember that ‘Christianity’ didn’t even have legitimacy until Constantine. Oh, and that Spanish Inquisition thing is a problem. No evolution there, right? No pressure? Uh huh.

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 12:34 PM

As I said, you’re an idiot.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:32 PM

And that’s really all you’ve got. You disagree but haven’t the wits to do so properly.

Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 12:36 PM

Maybe it’s me but when I look closely at the faces of conservative women commentators (Michelle, Ann, Laura, etc.) I see wit, intellectual curiousity, intelligence and a sparkle in the eye. When you look closely at the faces of these leftist women (including Kirsten) you see defensiveness and pain.

peacenprosperity on August 30, 2007 at 12:38 PM

And that’s really all you’ve got. You disagree but haven’t the wits to do so properly.

No, I’ve got more.

You said this:

Following Satan is better than following nothing and criticizing everything like a self-righteous prick.

And you claim to be a Christian.

That is clearly a flawed theological and moral position fully in keeping with everything else you said.

You’ll never get it. You’re not devoted to goodness, you’re devoted to softness. So soft you’re snuggling up to your God’s opponents.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:42 PM

NRA4Freedom on August 30, 2007 at 10:24 AM

Awesome response from my fellow NRA fan! He proved both my point as a Christian, and AllahPundit’s point as a atheist and Christian-hater, all in one short post!

Best!

Jaibones on August 30, 2007 at 12:46 PM

Voidseeker on August 30, 2007 at 12:11 PM, thank you for making my point. This has to do with a comparison of basic beliefs.

1.

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

But as 3 separate Gods, in direct conflict with Christian beliefs.

2.

We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

Father Neuhause:

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the disobedience of our first parents Adam and Eve was a great evil. Through their fall sin entered the world, bringing all human beings under condemnation and death. Thus we are born with a sinful nature, and will be judged for the sins we commit as individuals.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Adam’s sin was “a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us” (Gospel Principles, p. 33; Book of Mormon — 2 Nephi 2:25; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 114-115).

another conflict.

I’m not going to address every one of these, because it will just take up too much space, but anyone can do the compare and contrasts.

#8 is a biggie, though:

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Father Neuhause:

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the Bible is the unique, final and infallible Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2; 2 Peter 1:21) and that it will stand forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). God’s providential preservation of the text of the Bible was marvelously illustrated in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted, is missing many “plain and precious parts” and does not contain the fullness of the Gospel (Book of Mormon — 1 Nephi 13:26-29; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 190-191).

Again, by Christian standards, Mormonism is a separate religion.

If you want to call yourself a Christian, that’s cool.

But don’t expect Christians to agree with it, when the Mormon church does not hold to even the basic biblical truths believed by the greater Christian community down through the ages.

Nice Deb on August 30, 2007 at 12:48 PM

Here we go again with the bigots. So many asinine statements and so little space to expose them for the bigoted assholes they are.

The question is clearly not if Mormons are Christian, because as Christ said, “By their fruits you shall know them”, the question is clearly are the jag-off bigots here really Christians. A Christian doesn’t tear down, a Christian builds up. Why do these so-called “Christians” engage in deriding others beliefs instead of promoting their own? I’ll tell you why. Because they are fear mongers. They were brought to Jesus through fear and they think everyone elses should also.
Also, they are losing the battle against the LDS. The LDS don’t pay their pastors, so they don’t have to tickle the ears of the congregation. They tell it like it is.

Paid clergy have to do anything to keep their coffers full for their fancy cars and lavish homes. So, they create demons to scare their sheep into staying with them. (the sheep AND THEIR MONEY!)

And it’s laughable when theses arrogant a$$holes claim they are the arbiters of who is and is not a Christian. Theses “Christians” are not even Christians themselves! They don’t follow Christs true teachings. They follow the Nicaean Creed. A collection of beliefs that were agreed upon by men who had no divine guidance to make such judgments. They bartered, over-ruled, and ganged up on different groups of early church Christians. Many sacred teachings of Christ were thrown on the ash heap because the popular cults could over power those teachings in favor of the ones who got people into the buildings. (the people AND THEIR MONEY!)

How absolutely arrogant for a bunch of Nicaeans, who have little concept of the depth of Gods promises to us and know just slightly more of Jesus’ role, to claim they know who the REAL Jesus is and more importantly, who is a true Christian.

One of these tools (tools of bigoted pastors) compared Christian v. Mormon as being the same as illegals v. legals. We KNOW for a fact what our immigration laws are. We wrote them and have an unbroken chain of events that make it what it is today. The bible IS NOT an unbroken chain of events. The greedy, worldly Council of Nicaea destroyed all that. So that comparison doesn’t hold any credibility at all.

And besides all this, Mitt! isn’t running for theocratic office. He’s running for a secular position in public service. A service where integrity, honesty, clean living, family values, and other secular traits are what a candidate should be judged on.

So to all you bigots, here’s a big Bronks cheer for ya!

csdeven on August 30, 2007 at 12:50 PM

That is clearly a flawed theological and moral position fully in keeping with everything else you said.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:42 PM

How about you prove it.

My claim is that God doesn’t need or want self-righteous pricks who do more than criticize others and would rather those people were actually rooting for the other side.

Your claim is that being a prick isn’t really all that bad and is certainly better than being a Satanist.

Prove it.

Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 12:51 PM

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:20 PM

As has already been pointed out, you don’t get it.

And that is 100% ok, it is your right to be uninformed, to chose to believe misinformation, and to regurgitate it whenever you choose.

I will educate you on the Lucifer-as-brother point here, and depending on how well you grasp it we can address the others later:

Mormons believe in a Pre-Existence of all spirits before this Earth was created. As this is the case Lucifer, who was once called the Son of Morning, existed along with Jesus, you, me, everyone that has ever been born on this planet and many others. Shortly before the creation of this world both Jesus and Lucifer stepped forward to become Saviors of this planet and us. Jesus did so to follow Gods plan, Lucifer did so in order to become God - as his plan was to remove free agency and force every soul to follow his orders.

Lucifer convinced 1/3 of the Heavenly Host to follow him, and when they lost their fight against those that wished to follow God and his plan they were cast out of Heaven. Lucifer became Satan at this point, hellbent on ensuring that everyone that did not follow him would never make it back to Heaven.

Is that what happened? Who knows. But if Mormons believe that all Spirits/Souls exist before birth, and even before the creation of this galaxy, it would make sense that Lucifer was around as well.

Following me still?

So the LDS church, in following the logic of its own teachings, states that at one time (eons past most likely as we think of time) knew God, knew Jesus, and was a powerful spirit: yet even with this perfect knowledge of both and the laws of Righteousness he chose to rebel and attempt to usurp the throne of God. Pretty much sums up evil.

I am not saying you have to believe it, but there is nothing in that teaching that denies Christ or God, their divinity, etc; in fact it is just a more in depth background on the evil nature of Satan.

Voidseeker on August 30, 2007 at 12:52 PM

How about you prove it.

How about I don’t have to? How about you’re stupid as the bacteria in a pile of mud?

How about obviously, according to any Christian theology, there is nothing worse than following Satan?

Not even insulting your intelligence when you make statements like that as a “Christian” who thinks my speaking style is worse than following Satan.

Bravo.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:55 PM

yet even with this perfect knowledge of both and the laws of Righteousness he chose to rebel and attempt to usurp the throne of God. Pretty much sums up evil.

I am not saying you have to believe it, but there is nothing in that teaching that denies Christ or God, their divinity, etc; in fact it is just a more in depth background on the evil nature of Satan.

Voidseeker on August 30, 2007 at 12:52 PM

Yeah, but what if he won?

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 12:57 PM

Esthier and Christoph sound like Shia and Sunni.

saiga on August 30, 2007 at 12:56 PM

OH! OH! I got one! What religion was Muhammad before he became Prophet?

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 12:58 PM

But I do not need divine inspiration to know atheists aren’t Christians, Jews aren’t Christians, Muslims aren’t Christians, Mormons — whose plan is to actually become a God themselves (if they’re male) — are not Christians, and Druids aren’t Christians.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:19 AM

No, all you need is your bigoted nature to believe what you believe. As long as were telling the truth here, it should offend you to hear the truth about yourself. Right?

csdeven on August 30, 2007 at 1:00 PM

Voidseeker on August 30, 2007 at 12:52 PM

No, that’s a fairly accurate description of what Mormon’s teach and what I was taught.

It is different than Christianity, however, where Jesus along with the Holy Spirit and God in the God-head had a hand in creating the universe and all the other beings, including the angel Satan.

It’s different.

Just like Christians do not believe that God was once a man born of a spermatozoa and an egg.

Indeed, they believe what Jesus said, that he is the alpha and the omega, beginning and the end, etc., and was always in existence.

I don’t actually believe that either, but I do see how it is different than what you believe.

I have no problem with supporting Mitt for President. I just have a problem with anyone claiming he’s a Christian when past Presidents of your church (anointed prophets of God no less) have clearly indicated they do not see Jesus in the way the Bible shows him.

And I could go on about the plagiarism in the book of Mormon ad nauseum, etc., but I don’t hate Mormons.

I despise the historical figure that was Joseph Smith, however, and consider him to be a most despicable man, along with Brigham Young.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 1:01 PM

How about obviously, according to any Christian theology, there is nothing worse than following Satan?

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 12:55 PM

What is obvious to you, is ignorance to the rest of us.

The Bible backs me up on this, but you’re too arrogant to see the truth for yourself.

Boy, we have just witnessed an good example of how religion can stir emotions and irrationality. Esthier and Christoph sound like Shia and Sunni.

saiga on August 30, 2007 at 12:56 PM

To a point, but I also get this way around all arrogant pricks, not just ones who think they know more about my faith than I do.

Yeah, but what if he won?

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 12:57 PM

Then God isn’t perfect and thus isn’t really God.

Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 1:02 PM

past Presidents of your church (anointed prophets of God no less) have clearly indicated they do not see Jesus in the way the Bible shows him.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 1:01 PM

Again, the Bible is a perfect document that conveys the authorial intent of about 2000 to 4000 years ago?

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 1:04 PM

but I don’t hate Mormons.

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 1:01 PM

But surely you must hate Mormons because csdeven called you a bigot. It was written.

frreal on August 30, 2007 at 1:04 PM

ok here we go again…

Nice Deb on August 30, 2007 at 12:48 PM

Nice Deb… WHO is this father Neuhause?
is he God?
Who gave him the right to speak for every Christian?
why is citing him any better than citing the the guy on the street corner with the sandwich board that says “The end is Near?”

-Wasteland Man.

WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 1:04 PM

Again, by Christian standards, Mormonism is a separate religion.

If you want to call yourself a Christian, that’s cool.

But don’t expect Christians to agree with it, when the Mormon church does not hold to even the basic biblical truths believed by the greater Christian community down through the ages.

Nice Deb on August 30, 2007 at 12:48 PM

I don’t call myself anything actually, other people need to labels to get through life.

And I do not expect believers of one faith to believe the doctrine of another faith - that would be silly. What I do expect is that “believers” actually follow what they believe, yet many Self-Proclaimed-Christians here seem to be failing to do so.

Which AP pointed out near the start of the comments.

Too many of the SPCs here like to nit pick to be able to state Mormons are not Christians because Mormons do not believe in the Christ as they do; yet to anyone outside these horse blinder sects Mormons look exactly like Christians - aka someone that believes in the Bible and the story/teachings of Jesus Christ.

If you chose to say they are not Christian like you, that would be 100% correct, but it does not move them out of the group of religions that have Jesus Christ as their figure head of faith. They do not become Jews or Muslims that deny the divinity of Christ, nor do they become Buddhists, Taoists, Druids, or any other religious group.

Voidseeker on August 30, 2007 at 1:05 PM

_____Stop______

As much as I love this blog, basically every post about religion is a troll. This is fairly obvious, because the pump is primed with a remark by Allah almost everytime after a few comments and the floodgates open. It’s brilliant, because it works and gets a lot of comments, and I’m sure it provides enjoyment for the atheists in the audience. But you are all recycling the same arguments everytime something like this is posted.

It’s pointless to argue about it. If someone wants to declare themselves a Christian…or for that matter a prophet or another buddha, that’s their business. It’s like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of pin.
_____________________YHBT________________________

_____Continue_____

Asher on August 30, 2007 at 1:08 PM

Hollowpoint on August 30, 2007 at 12:50 PM

I was responding to glockman’s comment, which seems to deal specifically with what was written on this thread.

nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 1:11 PM

Yeah, but what if he won?

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 12:57 PM

That is the great loss that would never happen, and also why evil is not logical. It was never possible to Lucifer to be able to win, but his hubris and desire for power were what ruled his actions.

*Shrug* that is what they believe, I cannot say it is what happened as I do not have any personal knowledge or memory of it.

Voidseeker on August 30, 2007 at 1:12 PM

WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 1:04 PM,

Go back to the link and read the statements of all the major Christian denominations on this matter. Scroll down to the bottom of the page. No, none of these churches, think they’re ‘God’. They represent the mainstream Christian position on this issue.

Does the freakin’ weatherman think he’s God, because he looked at some data, and forecasted rain?

Like I said, they can call themselves whatever they like, (and I’m not convinced that they all consider themselves Christian), but by basic Christian standards, Mormons are not Christian.

Nice Deb on August 30, 2007 at 1:14 PM

I’m saying given what the Bible says there are certain principles in it that would tend to define one as a Christian.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 1:12 PM

‘Tend to’ is not ‘categorically,’ or ‘concrete,’ therefore implying that a measure of interpretation is allowed and accepted.

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 1:17 PM

As much as I love this blog, basically every post about religion is a troll.
Asher on August 30, 2007 at 1:08 PM

Yup, so we sit and refresh and post and Hot Air gets it’s ad-bucks.

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 1:18 PM

Your mind is severely limited.

Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 12:14 PM

His mind is severely bigoted also.

csdeven on August 30, 2007 at 1:21 PM

TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 12:54 PM

We have cam a long way since King James. Modern translations of the Bible are actually quite accurate, and with textual criticism, we have a very good idea of the manuscripts in their autographs.

I do read Greek and Hebrew, have done a lot of translation work, and the argument that there is bias in the translations is tired and worn out.

I’ll be honest. If I wanted to insert bias into the translations, I would, you know, take out difficult stuff like the resurrection, certain passages on women, or stuff about major biblical figures being murderers (Moses)….but all that stuff is still in there.

nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 1:21 PM

No, that’s a fairly accurate description of what Mormon’s teach and what I was taught.

It is different than Christianity, however, where Jesus along with the Holy Spirit and God in the God-head had a hand in creating the universe and all the other beings, including the angel Satan.

It’s different.

Just like Christians do not believe that God was once a man born of a spermatozoa and an egg.

Indeed, they believe what Jesus said, that he is the alpha and the omega, beginning and the end, etc., and was always in existence.

I don’t actually believe that either, but I do see how it is different than what you believe.

…

Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 1:01 PM

What you were taught and what you understand seem to be two different things. Also as I have never stated what I believe, so you cannot see anything on that point.

Here is another attempt to help you out: IF the Mormons are right that Spirits have always existed, how would that not fit with how Jesus described God? See, you fail to see past the blinders of your own church’s teachings. Just because they believe that at one point in the infinite past God had to go through the process of getting a physical body does not change the fact that his Spirit was already in existence (in their belief structure)

You are correct that it is different than what you were taught to believe, but different =/= wrong nor make them not Christian. It makes them not YOU. There is a big difference, and you are not the authority on who is or is not a Christian.

Voidseeker on August 30, 2007 at 1:23 PM

OOPS
it killed my [/sarc OFF]
in that last post.

-Wasteland Man.

WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 1:24 PM