Video: “I know Mitt Romney is not himself Christian…”
posted at 9:30 am on August 30, 2007 by Allahpundit
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The things you learn on “Countdown.” Between this and that big dog-on-the-roof expose, this might be her year for a Pulitzer. Click the image to watch.
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Dur, he’s a Mormon.
JasonG on August 30, 2007 at 9:34 AM
Ya’know, I’m not a Romney fan but the crap he’s taking because he’s Mormon needs to stop, from the left and right.
Bad Candy on August 30, 2007 at 9:36 AM
“…or that’s a point of debate.”
Which it is. Are Unitarian Universalists ‘Christian’?
The Monster on August 30, 2007 at 9:36 AM
Do the math. Christians believe in the existence of only one God, Mormons don’t.
In Reader’s Digest the Mormons themselves put out big ads in the 80’s stating that they were not in fact Christians. Go to Grandma’s house (you know the one who keeps all her old Reader’s Digests) and check it out. Romney’s just saying he’s a Christian so he can get more votes. He’s into whatever you’re into.
Mojave Mark on August 30, 2007 at 9:36 AM
Agreed. I’m a Rudy guy, but I really don’t care that Mitt’s a Mormon.
amerpundit on August 30, 2007 at 9:42 AM
Mitt is a great man, a great family man, he has great credintials, he is a devout Mormon, LDS…and he is not a Christian.
I hate Olby, but that does not mean people on his show can’t be wrong.
One litmus test (of many)…monotheist christian or polytheist mormon.
And before you get into who defines what word, and why can’t they change the definition if they want to. Go ahead, next time you have a heart attack, tell the doctor to take out your liver, because you decided to call your heart a liver. We define words for a purpose, so we don’t get confused. (I crossed over the border so now I am a citizen, no your an immigrant until we define you as a citizen)
Christian = monotheist
Mormon = polytheist
Mormon wants to be a Christian, but don’t change the definition to become one, change the doctrine to become one.
I love Mormon’s, but they ought to let this one go. They should be happy to be LDS.
Bombs awaaaaaaayyyyy!
right2bright on August 30, 2007 at 9:44 AM
It doesn’t matter to me what Mitt is, as long as he’s a decent family guy, which he is. Ironically, he’s the only one (out of Guiliani, Thompson) who has had only one wife.
pullingmyhairout on August 30, 2007 at 9:45 AM
You guys are really something else. Like Hitchens said in his piece about his book tour, “Once again we see how much the Christians love each other.”
Allahpundit on August 30, 2007 at 9:50 AM
neither is Hillary, though she claims it
jediwebdude on August 30, 2007 at 9:53 AM
Meh. I couldn’t tell if that was a calculated smear attempt or a jab at Mitt’s percieved weak spot with the evangelicals…or whatever. It certainly wasn’t red meat. it was actually, you know - the truth, so I don’t know what the big deal is.
Sigh.
Dork B. on August 30, 2007 at 9:55 AM
So a person crossing the border without papers is now legal? Oh wait you say they aren’t legal? How cruel of you to define them as illegal, so much for your humanity. Once again we can see how much people love each other.
Of all people, a recovering lawyer should know the value of words.
right2bright on August 30, 2007 at 9:55 AM
What do you get when you cross a Mormon and a Universalists?
Someone who knocks on your door and says nothing.
right2bright on August 30, 2007 at 9:59 AM
Horse Hockey. Just because this guy isn’t a Christian is not a reason to dismiss him. Hell, Jefferson was a Deist and he was President. But calling a Mormon a “Christian” is misleading at best. Have you ever been to a Mormon church. They got some strange ideas, nice people but its a strange theology.
JasonG on August 30, 2007 at 10:00 AM
Romney has said two things: One: He’s a Mormon. Two: Mormon’s believe in Jesus Christ. (It is, after all, the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints)
He’s let everyone else extroplate whether that makes Mormons Christians or not. Personally I don’t care.
BKennedy on August 30, 2007 at 10:01 AM
Wait, what? Can someone explain to me how a religion that believes Jesus is the son of God and is responsible for atonement of your sins is not Christian?
If the LDS has specifically said that Mormons are not Christians, I’d like to see it.
SouthernDem on August 30, 2007 at 10:01 AM
Hey, I’m Christian, not a great one…or even a good one, but I am!
Bad Candy on August 30, 2007 at 10:01 AM
As Spock would say, ‘Fascinating,’ and arch his eyebrow.
I love it when people who aren’t a thing define that thing for the people that are. Last time I looked, Mormons didn’t worship Vishnu.
TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 10:03 AM
Guys, guys.
This is Ana Marie Cox we are talking about, here.
You know, the girl whose highest political qualification is to tell whether someone is a candidate for, or is a veteran of, the dreaded anal sex…
/sigh
Wanderlust on August 30, 2007 at 10:04 AM
All I have to say is spellcheck…
FireDrake on August 30, 2007 at 10:06 AM
It won’t work, the evanglicals will vote for the person with the strongest values. Even if that person was a Buddhist, that is what non-Christians don’t get. We can debate some of these things, but also look past them. It is not a litmus test to be a leader. All of our Christian leaders (most) were chosen by God, not because they were “Christian” or they had perfect lives, or were great speakers, or had great “family values”, we get it, non-faithful don’t. Christ didn’t walk around looking for the “perfect”…we get it.
right2bright on August 30, 2007 at 10:06 AM
A key part of Christian theology is the belief that God is, has and always will be. Mormons believe that good people, when they die, become their own gods able to create their own universes.
Also Jesus is the Messiah, the last prophet. Mormons have their own prophet, thereby saying that Jesus is not the last prophet. There’s some other things that make them different other than that but they are minor compared to the two listed above.
JasonG on August 30, 2007 at 10:07 AM
TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 10:03 AM
You made me remember that Kirk/Spock love tape: “entry made by First Officer Spock…”
Wanderlust on August 30, 2007 at 10:07 AM
Heh. ;)
TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 10:09 AM
Christians and Mormans share many of the same values. Mormans believe in Jesus. If you do any digging however, you will find that the “Jesus” the Mormans profess, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible will you find the statement that Jesus and Lucifer are “spiritual brothers”. That’s a deal breaker right there.
windchaser73 on August 30, 2007 at 10:12 AM
Still trying to decide whether to accept Christians as your Savior(s), eh?
Back later to see how this goes.
baldilocks on August 30, 2007 at 10:13 AM
You know, Ana Marie wouldn’t have a point if we stopped making religion a political issue. Just saying…
Sorry, but that’s just silly. The Mormon faith is exceptionally weird. It was founded by a convicted conman, and its holy book was “dictated” from some golden tablets. If Romney honestly believes that the word of God came from some mythical golden tablets that no one besides one illiterate crook could look at, then he’s not qualified to be President.
Enrique on August 30, 2007 at 10:15 AM
Oh, my. As noted, it is painful to see Christians who will so quickly throw other believers in Christ under the bus over some perceived doctrinal failure.
You guys must absolutely love the Pope’s “God’s One True Church” proclamations…
Jaibones on August 30, 2007 at 10:15 AM
I agree. Frankly, I’ve never quite understood that whole Trinity - three is really one thing, but if Christians say the Trinity is really one and they are monotheists, I take them at their word.
ncc770 on August 30, 2007 at 10:16 AM
At least he isn’t an Atheist.
JayHaw Phrenzie on August 30, 2007 at 10:16 AM
Will the LDS cause a recurrence of BDS called RDS? Y.E.S.Q.E.D.
With that said, I don’t care that Romney is a Mormon-he’s not running for ‘religious’ office. He’s as squeaky clean a politician as we’re going to find in this election. And one with actual experience as a Governor and successful businessman.
Remember the knock on Senators-that they usually have only experience in governing their staff. Being one of a hundred who makes decisions as a group. Or, in the case of this Congress, DOESN’T make decisions.
I guess, so far, “I’m Witt Mitt”.
Doug on August 30, 2007 at 10:18 AM
That’s a pretty easy one to “explain”, since the LDS cults “jesus” is a totally different person than the Jesus Christ of which the Bible speaks. Don’t be fooled. For a quick explanation…
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/cults/mormons.HTM
http://wri.leaderu.com/mormonism/mormonism.html
NRA4Freedom on August 30, 2007 at 10:18 AM
Where does it say this concerning becoming your own God? According to the LDS website:
SouthernDem on August 30, 2007 at 10:18 AM
SouthernDem on August 30, 2007 at 10:01 AM
Exactly. There are real Mormons and “Mormons” who have been excommunicated from the church like Warren Jeff - the creepy fundamentalists who believe in Polygamy.
Moreover, what’s this business of claiming that Mormons are “Polytheists” and believe in more than one God?
That’s what the Islamists say about Christians because most of them believe in the Holy Trinity.
Allahpundit on August 30, 2007 at 9:50 AM
I have to say I tend to agree with you on this one. All this internecine bickering is not helpful, and a lot of the statements are petty and ignorant.
By the way, I’m reading A Mormon in The White House, and I am more and more impressed with Mitt Romney, at every level.
Buy Danish on August 30, 2007 at 10:19 AM
Mitt a Great Man! Spoken like someone who didn’t have him as a Governor.
LISTEN UP PEOPLE! Who gives a rats ass about his church. Look at his credintials ( Great credintials my ass )in politics. HE DID NOTHING as the leader of Massachusetts, He is USELESS! Yes! he has a pretty face, Yes! he is a nice family man. But we elected him to do something in this state, ANYTHING! HE DID NOTHING! He couldn’t get one thing done, NOT ONE! working with our left wing liberal state house. After 2 years he gave up trying and when on the road for the next 2 years putting down the State that elected him while he “tested the waters” for a presidential run. He was an absent governor for his last 2 years here. His admin was so bad his Lt Gov was a laughing stock when she tried to get elected after him.
If he gets elected and can’t get one thing done, whats he going to do? GIVE UP AGAIN! Go on a 2 year tour of the world and test the waters for a run at King of the world?
He’s a gun with no bullets. We got him in to be our hero and change this blue hell. He gave up without any fight at all. The world will eat him alive as President.
He’s a nice guy. But we don’t need a nice guy, we need a leader. And it ain’t him.
Masscon on August 30, 2007 at 10:20 AM
Maybe he just likes the ideas and principles behind it, or the community. Maybe its tradition. I’m not knocking it, to each their own.
Bad Candy on August 30, 2007 at 10:21 AM
So unsupported assertions without references produced by someone who has an agenda is to be believed without question? I get it, AMC says it, so it’s so.
TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 10:21 AM
I think you are agreeing with me..? Anyway, I agree with you - I don’t think evangelicals have any major issues with Mitt’s candidacy, even though we disagree theologically.
From a policy standpoint, we want the same things. The left may try to make an issue of it, but that’s because they are assuming that we are hate-filled and bigoted.
I am a desparate sinner saved by grace and faith in Christ, but I’m guessing Mitt is a better man than me, morally.
Dork B. on August 30, 2007 at 10:22 AM
I mean… couldn’t they find anyone who knew less about Christians then her? Why not bring on Christiane Amanpour to spout ignorant platitudes?
If that is Wonkette… where is the anal-sex angle?
Shouldn’t Wonkette be contributing her “expertise” to the Larry Craig debacle?
DANEgerus on August 30, 2007 at 10:22 AM
“Other believers”? If you don’t believe in the same God, how can you all be “believers” together? Do you foolishly think that Muslims are fellow believers with Christians also???
As for the Pope, people are free to believe anything they like. It isn’t very hard to take the Catholic Catechism and provide clear examples of blasphemy and false teachings when comparing what it says to the Bible, so I’ll not be worrying too much about what the Pope says or doesn’t say…better to just believe what God says in His written word.
NRA4Freedom on August 30, 2007 at 10:24 AM
LOL, yeah, this is probably the only thread on HA where you’ll find people even remotely agreeing with Cox.
SouthernDem on August 30, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Masscon,
? You could use an edumaction, and I’d start with “A Mormon in the White House” if it’s not too difficult for you.
I have to run out, but I’ll be happy to remind you of what Mitt did accomplish as governor later, since you seem to have slept through his administration. Or maybe he didn’t get some impossible legislative scenario that you dreamed of passed?
Buy Danish on August 30, 2007 at 10:27 AM
I said a great man, not a great polition or a great Gov.
Tha’s what I said, he is a great guy, love to have a
beercoketeacup of coffeea glass of water with him.right2bright on August 30, 2007 at 10:27 AM
If you want to believe the lies of Mormonism, then you will, because like the song says, a man hears what he WANTS to hear, and disregards the rest. Anyone looking for truth, rather than a “religion” to follow, will have little or no trouble identifying the lies of Mormonism just by comparing the all too obviously false doctrines to what the Bible clearly says. It isn’t rocket science.
NRA4Freedom on August 30, 2007 at 10:28 AM
Fallacious logic at its best. ‘Don’t gotta prove nothin’ cuz the other guy’s a liar and I know cuz gawd told me so.’
TinMan13 on August 30, 2007 at 10:31 AM
AP, where do you think Christians should draw the line? Or should they call everybody Christians? (You’re a Christian too!)
frankj on August 30, 2007 at 10:34 AM
I’m really beginning to get a bit hacked off with you atheists disparaging Christians every time someone who considers themselves (or others consider them to be) a “christian”, acts in an un-Christlike manner.
News flash - NO Christians are perfect!
Every true follower of Jesus Christ falls short (sins) every day. Anti-Christians seem to take great pleasure in berating followers of Jesus Christ with this fact.
Understand this; the standard that Jesus Christ set (living a sinless life) is impossible to achieve for any mortal man. It is a goal to aspire to, not a list of minimum requirements for “membership” in some sort of club.
Add to this the fact that the word “christian” means different things to different people and the water gets real muddy, real fast.
There is only One who knows the heart of man and He alone determines who is a Christian and who is not. As humans, the most we can do is recognize Christ-like behavior in someone or lack thereof.
kjspeedial on August 30, 2007 at 10:38 AM
I want to say at the outset that Mitt’s Mormonism makes very little difference to me in considering him as a candidate.
I knew the conversation was going to turn this way the moment I saw the headline. AP, if that is how you really feel than I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the differences between traditional, orthodox Christianity, and Mormonism. Some of the differences have been pointed up above, but I will just say that, while Mormons consider themselves “Christian,” and the Mormons I have known well consider themselves to be somewhat more than Christian, or, a furtherance of Christianity, they diverge from fundamental tenets of the traditional Christian faith in significant ways.
I am not attempting to be an arbiter of someone’s faith. I am saying that there are fundamental doctrines of Christianity that one adheres to as a Christian. The divinity of Christ it one of them. Mormons make no secret of their belief that Christ was not divine.
All I’m saying is that there are significant differences between Mormonism and orthodox Christian faith.
nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 10:42 AM
Believe whatever you like, it’s a free Country!
NRA4Freedom on August 30, 2007 at 10:42 AM
The most thorough comparison of Mormon beliefs vs. Christian beliefs, that I’ve seen, can be found here:
http://www.irr.org/mit/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html
If you scroll down to the bottom, you can read the statements of five major Christian denominations on this question.
The consensus is no…not Christian.
Why are we “something else” for pointing out the truth.
I’m just hoping for a good conservative for the White House. I don’t really care what religion he is.
Nice Deb on August 30, 2007 at 10:43 AM
You - as usual in matters of religion - obtusely miss the point.
The point is that, by definition, Mormonism is not Christianity. At least not according to most theologians. And the two Mormons I asked that very same question of on my own front porch weren’t exactly sure, either.
Saying that Mormons are Christians makes as much sense as saying Jews are Christians. Or Hindus are Christians.
It’s not necessarily an attack to point out the factually obvious reality. Romney isn’t a Christian. He’s a Mormon.
So what? Stating that reality is not an attack.
Professor Blather on August 30, 2007 at 10:46 AM
I’m leery any time I hear a politician say they are a Christian. How can absolute evil be anything Christian?
jeffNWV on August 30, 2007 at 10:46 AM
May God (and John Smith) bless you. That was funny.
Professor Blather on August 30, 2007 at 10:48 AM
Yes it is very important to understand that a Christian gets his principles from a bearded carpenter that was born through parthenogeneses two thousand years ago, not a burning bush or mysterious golden plates.
Clearly, much more credibility.
JayHaw Phrenzie on August 30, 2007 at 10:48 AM
Buy Danish ?
A.) I was replying to a post that Spelled Credentials EXACTLY the same way I did. I don’t see you being a Pompous Ass to that poster. Instead of being a complete jerk, why do you enlighten me on the Great White Hopes long list of political accomplishments?
B.) Of course you have to run out, because you CAN’T name one thing he accomplished. I would LOVE to here what it was. New furniture for the Govs office maybe? I’m on the edge of my seat awaiting your extensive list.
C.) Keep your personal BS attacks to yourself. Spelling was my one and only weak subject, and this board doesn’t have spell check. So excuse the chit out of me for not living up to your righteous egotistical expectations. A-hole.
Masscon on August 30, 2007 at 10:51 AM
At least Christians are not afraid to practice freedom of speech.
Can you imagine Muslims going at it like this?
…….I rest my case.
Mcguyver on August 30, 2007 at 10:53 AM
I think you miss the point.
nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 10:54 AM
For The love of God, I cannot believe i am dipping my toe into this cesspool of intolerance.
but here goes.
Christ himself says…
I keep hearing folks on these threads claim to know Mormons and think they are alright folks.
So if they are wrong and Mormons are so bad then what about this?
Stone meet glass house ya’ll
-Wasteland Man.
WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 10:55 AM
Ah…you’re back in the Good Graces, Jay. Thank God for a good atheism post…
Jaibones on August 30, 2007 at 10:55 AM
RIGHT ON KJSPEEDIAL! Right on the money!
Masscon on August 30, 2007 at 10:55 AM
This is stupid stuff. I was wondering how far down the entries I’d have to go before a cheap shot was fired across the bow of the Catholic church. Jailbones and NRA4Freedom didn’t dissapoint me. Let’s get one thing straight, when you reference something reference it in it’s entirety. The Pope said nothing that hadn’t been said for hundreds of years. In fact, he referred to all Protestant denominations as faithful to the Word of God and honorable in their sharing of the Word. Methinks Protestants doth protest too much.
MNDavenotPC on August 30, 2007 at 10:57 AM
Oh, great. More Mormon bashing. I’ve had to listen to similar arguments by idiots who would argue that Catholics aren’t Christians, either. You people give me the creeps.
Blake on August 30, 2007 at 10:59 AM
- wrong about spell check ? yes
- loosing cool, yes.
When you misspell a word here it underlines itself with red and then when you right click on it shows alternative word options. At least in my Windows XP Pro there is a feature I have turned on for this to happen.
Mcguyver on August 30, 2007 at 11:00 AM
There’s nothing intolerant about pointing out an objective truth.
Ana Marie Cox didn’t say anything remotely controversial in that clip, either.
I don’t know why we’re even talking about this. It ain’t no big thang.
Dude’s not a Christian….so what?
Nice Deb on August 30, 2007 at 11:01 AM
Romney isn’t a Christian.
The Mormon church’s theology, now somewhat scrubbed, but still maintained in the temples, themselves secretive, is that the Jesus they worship is Lucifer’s brother, not God’s only Son.
Most Mormon’s I know are decent people, however, they follow a false profit and their religion is, or was founded as, a cult.
I’ve been a Mormon, I know several, and love them… but the decency in them comes from their focus on family, their own innate goodness, not from Joseph Smith, the man who killed two during his martyrdom.
(I respect him for that if nothing else, naturally.)
So, yes, Mitt Romney, however much he may want to say he is or even believe he is is not, in any real sense, a Christian.
He is rather the follower of an evil false prophet.
Truth is a female dog.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:03 AM
I can’t spell, but the underlying truth remains.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:03 AM
Deplorable.
ericire12 on August 30, 2007 at 11:04 AM
You’re ignorant, Blake.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:04 AM
For all of this talk, I don’t think I’ve ever heard Mitt refer to himself as a Christian.
nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 11:07 AM
Once again, the voice of reason, nailinmyeye.
I would have no problem voting for or working with Mitt. Just any statement that he is a Christian, when he is in fact a Mormon and they are different, is misguided.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:09 AM
So…
IF I call myself a Jew but I believe in Christ i am not a Christian?
IF I call myself a Catholic are there not some who would call me not a true Christian because i didnt follow Luther out the church?
I think I have to agree with
And Call again INTOLERANCE
in·tol·er·ance
–noun
1. lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc.
Try reading it helps…
-Wasteland Man.
WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 11:10 AM
Of course, cherry-pick the comments, Allah. That’ll prove Hitchens right.
Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 11:11 AM
Smart.
Smart.
Not smart.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:13 AM
Only God and Romney are qualified to comment on that.
Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 11:14 AM
No, in fact, this is the kind of “stuff” that is real, and matters for all eternity…unlike most of the stupidity we all live with on a day to day basis.
I have stated before, no single organized entity on the face of the earth does for the good of humanity what they Catholic Church does. But that doesn’t negate the truth, nor the facts. God’s word is clear, adding “stuff” to the truth of the God and then passing it off as if it WAS the word of God is a really bad thing, and that’s what the Vatican has done, and has documented it in the Catechism. I certainly for one wish it were not so, but it is. Facts are facts. I have faced them, can you?
NRA4Freedom on August 30, 2007 at 11:14 AM
And god ain’t talking.
JayHaw Phrenzie on August 30, 2007 at 11:15 AM
much more succinct Than I could ever have put it Thank YOU!
LOLOLOLOL
-Wasteland Man.
(bows and grovels to Esthier: “I am not worthy I am not worthy”)
WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 11:16 AM
Dude - nevermind.
nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 11:17 AM
WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 11:10 AM:
Nothing you just said even made sense, in respect to what I said, so I’m not sure how to respond to it.
You try reading the link I provided above:
http://www.irr.org/mit/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html
There’s nothing intolerant about pointing out the truth.
I would, btw, have no trouble voting for Romney if he were the Republican candidate.
Nice Deb on August 30, 2007 at 11:19 AM
Idiotic.
He belongs to a religion that does not teach Jesus is the only Son of God.
And anyone can friggin’ “comment”.
Yes, in the end, if there is a God, God Himself and no one else shall pass judgment on Mitt Romney, Mother Theresa (who may or may not succeed in meeting the test) and Osama bin Laden, whom I earnestly hope does as I hope we all do.
Mitt may become a Christian.
But I do not need divine inspiration to know atheists aren’t Christians, Jews aren’t Christians, Muslims aren’t Christians, Mormons — whose plan is to actually become a God themselves (if they’re male) — are not Christians, and Druids aren’t Christians.
They may all, each and every of them, be great people and choose the best parts of their belief system to do good in the world.
They may all get to Heaven. The Bible makes this clear. And I’m a Christian either… somewhat of a Deist, but mostly unsure.
Yet I can read, learn, and think. Mitt Romney follows the teachings of a dishonest charlatan.
And possibly all of the above do as well.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:19 AM
People who think they have a clue about what is in another’s heart would be funny if they weren’t so pathetic.
How come the people who scream about separation of church and state are the first to come forward and try to judge someone’s church when they’re running for office of state?
bridgetown on August 30, 2007 at 11:19 AM
Wow that was even MORE succinct …if not a bit too profound..
What the heck?
-Wasteland Man.
WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 11:20 AM
I’m *not a Christian. Correcting typo.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:20 AM
Because we all have to make choices in the world and they are more important, not less, when the person could be elevated to most powerful in the world.
You think all churches are equal? You’re a relativist. And not very smart.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:21 AM
So to you, church membership determines whether or not someone if a Christian?
Nice to know.
Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 11:23 AM
What you Call “Truth” I call “Opinion”
(and your link doesn’t prove anything either.)
Its frickin’ Religion, Belief is NOT Truth.
Blind faith cannot be proven no matter what denomination you are. Ask AP.
so for one believer to judge another believer to me is just ridiculous.
-Wasteland Man.
WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 11:25 AM
… but I’ll answer your specific question. Just because a person believes in separating the state from governing us as individuals and choosing what if any religion we are or are not allowed to belong to and how we practice it, does not mean that people shouldn’t use their own strong religious beliefs to make their own decisions about who they will support.
Government should not tell people how to practice religion = separation of church and state.
Others, will use their religion as a guide post when the make decisions including about politics and other important matters = separation of church and state.
They’re individuals. Telling people they can’t use their religious principles to make judgments is NOT respecting their religion or freedom of religion.
I know this is hard. But read slowly. Sleep on it. It’ll come to you.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:25 AM
Dang, who’s doing that?!
The man professes to be a Mormon. Mormons aren’t Christian, period. Look. it. up.
Nice Deb on August 30, 2007 at 11:26 AM
Thanks.
I think if we were to change the terms it might be even more understandable. Let’s put it in terms of political affiliation.
You have someone who runs as and is elected as a Republican. McCain for instance. Or, Rudy. Whatever.
Then, you find out that that person holds to a political platform that is fundamentally different from the agreed upon party platform - and not just in minor ways, but in significant ways.
For McCain - Amnesty. For Rudy - Abortion. Whatever.
At that point, the base gets upset, and says: You aren’t what you said you are. And we get accusations of RINO and all that business. With McCain, we saw him even considering a switch in affiliation.
What I am saying here is that Christianity consists of (not merely, but at least) a set of fundamental beliefs - (divinity of Christ, death and resurrection, atonement, etc…). When those fundamental beliefs are deviated from, and not just in minor ways but in major ways, is it fair to say then that the person or sect is still Christian, or is it more fair to say that their faith is derived from orthodox Christianity, but not the same as?
nailinmyeye on August 30, 2007 at 11:27 AM
Jesus was very adamant that to be a Christian a person would also have to identify with being one. It’s not like Mitt is facing persecution if he’s a Christian, is he?
Therefore, since he goes to a Mormon church, he publicly states he’s a Mormon, I’m going to do him the common courtesy of assuming he’s honest about this, and is not just a particularly cowardly Christian.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:27 AM
wow….just WOW.
zane on August 30, 2007 at 11:28 AM
I get it…there are no knowable truths out there…words can mean whatever we want them to mean…I see now.
Discussion over.
Nice Deb on August 30, 2007 at 11:29 AM
Christians believe in the God of the Bible who is three in One. One God: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Mormons believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities that make up a “Godhead.” They are not three in one, they are three united in purpose. There is a big difference.
As far as the Islamists, because they don’t understand the Trinity, that doesn’t mean that Christians worship three Gods.
Mallard T. Drake on August 30, 2007 at 11:29 AM
I know zane, I am brilliant. As Rush says, “talent on loan from God.”
Thanks for noticing it. I appreciate it, but it’s really unnecessary, I already live it.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:31 AM
well whats to say that you dont missinterpret the godhead?
zane on August 30, 2007 at 11:31 AM
The passage is from Romans. It is the “litmus test” regarding whether someone is a Christian or not. If you believe in your heart that Jesus is God who was raised from the dead and you confess this openly, you are saved.
Mallard T. Drake on August 30, 2007 at 11:37 AM
Catholics, Shakers, Quakers, fundamentalists, Born-Again, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, followers of Christ, Jehovah’s witnesses, Etc.
Why are there 31 flavors of Christ?
I could easily join anyone of these (or more) churches, (thanks to our wonderful nation in which we are free to worship as we wish.)
but then would i look down upon any of the others?
Sit there and think that i am right they are wrong? deem them as good followers but *sigh* they just don’t have it right *tsk tsk*
should i feel like “Golly Only “I” have the truth and God only loves “ME”?
Damn… Maybe Hitchens was right after all.
Again Romney himself says he believes Jesus is his savior so who am i to argue? can you “PROVE” that hes not? and I mean fully prove it? not just show me a link of others opinion?
I dont think so.
Jeez maybe I’ll just go read some Nietzsche just to clear my palette YUCK!
-Wasteland Man.
WastelandMan on August 30, 2007 at 11:38 AM
Well, how have I misinterpretted it? What I wrote is what the LDS church believes. I may not know all the nuances of their religion, but I have stated the basic principle regarding their view of God(s).
Mallard T. Drake on August 30, 2007 at 11:39 AM
It’s not uncommon for people to agree with some beliefs of their church but not all, and while it’s important to state publicly a belief that Jesus is God and was raised from the dead, nothing else is at all required.
But what do I know, I’m just a Christian, whereas you are not and therefore clearly no more about my faith than I do.
Esthier on August 30, 2007 at 11:41 AM
And so goes the Christian theology as expressed clearly in black and white in the Bible.
Unlike Esthier and company, I believe words mean things.
Of course, s/he (probably former, but am guessing) is so darn (modern) Christian, and so agreeable, she couldn’t think to criticize a false-prophet / Charlatan / perverted person like Joseph Smith, who lead a militant group that largely seized Utah by force, has changed its mind repeatedly on many things including whether blacks can be members, etc., but claims to have prophets directly inspired by God, who, incidentally, was once a man like you or I so probably went to the toilet and read whatever the equivalent of porn mags were in his day before he got on the straight and narrow.
And one day, Mitt can be a God too.
Outstanding!
Look, probably a nice guy, I think he’s an amazing business man (Staples), and very competent. I don’t think he’s nearly the worst Presidential candidate possible.
But he just isn’t a Christian.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:42 AM
I meant to make the point, that Jesus was much harder than you. You’re a soft fuzzy head/heart.
Christoph on August 30, 2007 at 11:42 AM
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