Do you even know what his point was? His point was that Atheists “just know” that God does not exist and insist that you agree with them. Your counterpoint was you touting Atheism… and insisting that we agree with you.

The thing is his “point” was a straw man. Atheists have never claimed to “just know” God doesn’t exist, it’s the religious who claim to “just know” their God is real.

I know that Genesis isn’t meant to be taken literally, despite what you think about people who actually believe there’s something more than this life.

Many Christians do believe it is supposed to be taken literally, and if it isn’t literal then there is no original sin, if there is no original sin then there is no need for a savior. If Genesis isn’t real, your God isn’t real.

Nonfactor on August 30, 2007 at 4:39 PM

I proved his point?

Do you even know what his point was? His point was that Atheists “just know” that God does not exist and insist that you agree with them. Your counterpoint was you touting Atheism… and insisting that we agree with you.

I know that Genesis isn’t meant to be taken literally, despite what you think about people who actually believe there’s something more than this life. It’s pretty depressing to think that this life is as good as it’s ever going to get (and I do know. I went through an extended period of agnosticism until I had my own spiritual re-awakening a few years ago. I hadn’t realized at the time how angry and depressed I was).

profitsbeard on August 30, 2007 at 10:58 PM

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

How about a few things science directly contradicts?

Science doesn’t contradict your examples, because they are not in its realm.

The Garden of Eden is a symbol for the preconscious bliss of the animal.

The Tower of Babel is the Hebrews’ scorn for the hubris of the ziggurats of Mesopotamia.

The Great Flood may have been a memory of the eruption of Santorini in the Mediterranean, which likely caused a tsunami around the coasts, as well as the far greater flood in the Baltic region many centuries before.

Each story was not meant, by the Hebrews, to be taken literally -as their Christian offshoots tend to interpret them. (How can you take poetry literally without distorting it into lame prose?)

They’re metaphors and lures, with instinctually-vital warnings based on primal human dreads and transcending aspirations.

The first book of the Bible has two completely different stories of the creation. One abstract (”In the beginning was the Word…”) and one personal (”Adam and Eve“).

Only when people forgot the original uses of these stories (to teach moral lessons, not historical facts) have they become caricatures of their true intent.

Eden is immaterial; the “Fall” into self-consciousness and the resulting decisions about morality and the knowledge of mortality is very material. To our survival. *

And, bringing it all back to the topic at hand -of Mohammad’s iconoclasm:

Anything Islam teaches was pilfered poorly from the Bible, and then distorted further by the malignant personality of an art-hating, anti-poetic pedophile.

Psalms and Proverbs are ten thousand mental years ahead of anything Mohammad ever dreamed of.

The Bible is a collaborative work of imaginative art.

The Koran, its parody.

___________________________________________________________

(* “The Dragons of Eden” is a good counterweight book to the Garden variety.)

Christian mobs worldwide riot in 5…6…7…8…9…

MadisonConservative on August 30, 2007 at 10:14 AM

hehe

- The Cat

I dare this “artist” to be as cutting edge to present Mohammed and the koran in a bottle of piss.

Dude, you just proved his point.

crazy_legs on August 30, 2007 at 4:22 PM

I proved his point? Because I didn’t waste my time detailing the faults of Genesis in this failing post? How about a few things science directly contradicts: 1) The Garden of Eden didn’t exist 2) There was no “great flood” 3) The Tower of Babel story comes straight from mythology et cetera et cetera.

But if you truly believed in any of that stuff I wasn’t going to convince you anyway, you just “know it.”

(being droned by left wing proles)

Of course not one of these smart people have ever PROVEN that God does not exist – they just ‘know’ it. AND THEY INSIST THAT YOU AGREE.

So you believe nothing in science has contradicted Genesis? The truth is your God has been proven to not exist

Dude, you just proved his point.

Everything I’ve read about what she wrote implies that she was struggling with her faith, not abandoning it.

What part of “I have no faith” or ‘God doesn’t exist’ don’t you understand?

Of course not one of these smart people have ever PROVEN that God does not exist – they just ‘know’ it. AND THEY INSIST THAT YOU AGREE.

So you believe nothing in science has contradicted Genesis? The truth is your God has been proven to not exist (you seem to have chosen to ignore the evidence), the concept of a God has not been proven to not exist because it is impossible, similarly to how it is impossible to prove there are invisible aliens floating 1000 feet above the Pacific Ocean.

But you can not deny that the Bible is the most popular book in the world, in the history of the world. That is something that the well read atheist book worms can’t come to terms with.

ThackerAgency on August 30, 2007 at 1:17 PM

That doesn’t change the fact your God doesn’t exist. And when you have to result to logical fallacies to bolster your point you know you’ve gotten desperate.

My actual comment had less to do with his atheism and more to do with disappointment concerning his attack on an innocent DEAD woman

ThackerAgency on August 30, 2007 at 2:45 PM

If atheists are irrelevant, then why were you concerned about his attack?

So in other words, it’s a comment on contemporary “journalism” and not on bin Laden.
Now that’s brave (not “brave”), I mean, sure today’s “journalists” are punks, but they have absolutely no problem lying and distorting to get their view out, so look for stories about the artist that show that she actually likes John Howard and other equally damning factoids.

If atheists really as irrelevant as you claim them to be, then why did you waste your time criticizing Hitchens for his indiscretion?

Loundry on August 30, 2007 at 1:42 PM

My actual comment had less to do with his atheism and more to do with disappointment concerning his attack on an innocent DEAD woman who spent her life helping others so that he could sell his book. Dancing on graves is not something that makes anyone look good (atheist or not). But I don’t know Hitchens too well and it seems as though he’s quite fond of the practice (though I wouldn’t necessarily attribute the vile practice to the entire cult of atheism).

I was wondering if you were going to pick up on that hypocritical statement. I thought about making it more obvious, but I know that most atheists are pretty smart – so I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Are you saying I should not have taken you seriously? Or perhaps this is merely damage control? It’s hard to tell on a message board like this one.

As for the idea that ‘atheists are irrelevant’, that’s a personal opinion because even if they are right, it doesn’t matter (hence they are irrelevant).

ThackerAgency on August 30, 2007 at 1:17 PM

If atheists really as irrelevant as you claim them to be, then why did you waste your time criticizing Hitchens for his indiscretion?

My point is atheists have to be militant these days to feel relevant.
I wish you didn’t see the need to characterize someone else’s thoughts in a way that benefits your ideas (the idea you’re putting forth is: “Atheists are irrelevant”).

I was wondering if you were going to pick up on that hypocritical statement. I thought about making it more obvious, but I know that most atheists are pretty smart – so I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

As for the idea that ‘atheists are irrelevant’, that’s a personal opinion because even if they are right, it doesn’t matter (hence they are irrelevant).

The funny thing is that I consider myself a pretty smart guy, but I use my intelligence to explore more things. The more I explore, the more I realize I DON’T know. These atheists are typically intelligent, and they can’t figure out why, since they are smart and ‘know everything’, other people still believe in a higher power.

Of course not one of these smart people have ever PROVEN that God does not exist – they just ‘know’ it. AND THEY INSIST THAT YOU AGREE.

I point to eyewitness testimony of Jesus Christ as evidence. You can believe what these people say they saw or not. You can interpret what these people say they saw anyway you want. But you can not deny that the Bible is the most popular book in the world, in the history of the world. That is something that the well read atheist book worms can’t come to terms with.

Hitchens is already asking for donations and in return, he’ll let you read his over-reaching book attempting to convert the world to his religion of atheism.

Christians that have a relationship with Christ are actually spiritual enough and have seen enough of of this kind of trash to simply pay no attention to it, and possibly pray that the twit creating this stuff finds the truth in their life.

Muslims on the other hand mistaking the worse human behavior possible for spirituality would go insane if the same type of treatment was displayed of Mohammad.

This artist is a coward.

Loundry, you may have to clarify some things for me here. I’m not getting your argument,

A Christian criticized Hitchens for “characteriz[ing] someone else’s thoughts in a way that benefits [Hitchens's] ideas”, and I think that is very hypocritical because Christians do that to atheists all the time. It’s a case of, “You can dish it out, but you can’t take it.”

other than accusing others’ of saying atheists suck (which I don’t see either).

Miss_Anthrope on August 30, 2007 at 12:29 PM

I’m sorry, you’re right. Christians aspire to be atheists because Christians think that atheists rule the universe.

Luk 12:9
But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

Luk 12:10
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

ThackerAgency on August 30, 2007 at 10:45 AM

Well said. whenever Hitchens writes or speaks, it is always about himself. “Pride,” Satan loves pride because God dislikes it so.
It just saddens me to see a Soul, so lost.

I think the person who made the statue used in this manner would be offended.