Open thread: Larry Craig presser at 4:30 p.m. ET; Update: GOP Senate leaders call for ethics probe of Craig; Update: “I am not gay” video added; Update: Press(?) heckles Craig; Update: Craig’s a “sexual deviant,” says Chris Matthews
posted at 4:09 pm on August 28, 2007 by Allahpundit
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An anxious, darkly amused nation waits with bated breath. Is Craiggers on his way “out”? Or is he going to soldier on to a glorious landslide defeat next November? You’d better believe we’ll have video. Prediction: He denies everything but announces that he’s retiring at the end of his term so that he can spend more time with his grandchildren. Hey, he’s a family man.
Some reading while we wait. He was “agitated and demeaning” upon being arrested, says the cop who collared him. Really? Our Craiggers? The man who showed him his business card and quipped, “What do you think about that?” Meanwhile, Mitt makes a bold, risky move by dragging the Clenis into this. That’s smart politics in giving the base something to rally to, not so smart in antagonizing the left, which probably would have let him skate on this.
FYI, Craig’s rating by the gay rights group Human Rights Campaign: donut.
Update: You’re on your own, Larry.
Update: Here’s the statement. He’s not quitting but he did say he’ll decide next month whether he’ll stand for re-election. He’s also absolutely, positively, no-doubt-about-it, 100% not gay. Stand by for video, including some parting shots by our illustrious press corps calling on him to come out of the closet.
Update: Here’s the vid. His excuse for pleading guilty in June? Those mean people at the Idaho Statesman, whose checking up on him got him so flustered and disoriented that he, er, copped a plea to a charge stemming from an alleged act of lewd conduct. Makes sense.
He’s retained counsel to explore his options, presumably re: overturning the plea. Probability: Extremely low. Be sure to listen closely at the very end of the clip (I’ve boosted the audio) for the press — or bystanders? — yelling, “What if you are gay?” and “Come out of the closet!”
Update: MM polls her readers. Auf wiedesehen, Larry.
Update: You can always count on Chrissy. I quite agree with Mark Finkelstein: Please, let’s do have our moral betters weigh in on the parameters of deviancy. We’d all love to know.
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Craig was a victim of profiling!
I demand sensitivity training for the offender!
Slublog on August 28, 2007 at 6:52 PM
This is what Christophe says on this thread:
His best option now is to come out and say he is both gay, has sex with strangers in public places, and is a liar.
Seriously. That’s better than saying the police were acting inappropriately setting him up as a gay pervert and not seeing a lawyer (for two months).
Christoph on August 28, 2007 at 5:21 PM
Hmmmmm. These are some of Christoph’s comments at another Craig thread:
Hell. This sounds a lot like flirting.
If I’m at a party and a woman touches her foot to mine is she going to jail now? Bastards!
Christoph on August 28, 2007 at 2:08 PM
I would be very suspicious of the whole thing,… suspicious of the bastard cop, the slimy little sucker, egging the other fellow on.
The cop, his boss, the prosecutor, the judge who allowed this travesty, and your country should feel ashamed about this.
Christoph on August 28, 2007 at 2:28 PM
This was a betrayal of those ideals. It was government and the police being used for, and not against, evil.
Christoph on August 28, 2007 at 2:50 PM
I hate the cop.
I usually like the police. I support them. But here, no way.
Christoph on August 28, 2007 at 3:25 PM
Buy Danish on August 28, 2007 at 6:54 PM
A conservative, yes. a republican, no. not anymore.
The Sinner on August 28, 2007 at 6:55 PM
Ah, geez, Allah, can’t you ban this slug now?
Nichevo on August 28, 2007 at 7:08 PM
RESIGN!
congsan on August 28, 2007 at 7:11 PM
Andy of Agoura,
Here ya go. Gay Patriot, who say that Craig should resign.
Their lead item today happened to be about Michael Yon’s positive dispatches from Iraq.
Here’s an item headlined “individualism of Right preferable to Left’s ideology of Gay identity”.
Here’s what they have to say about Mike Roger’s “Outing witchunts”.
And so forth…
Buy Danish on August 28, 2007 at 7:15 PM
Absolutely, yes.
Follow-up question: Should US Senators reach their hand into the neighboring bathroom stall?
pedestrian on August 28, 2007 at 7:15 PM
Pedestrian,
I think Mitt Romney answered that brilliantly today, in so many words.
Buy Danish on August 28, 2007 at 7:22 PM
Slug? That’s original. Surely, you have a better vocabulary than that, no? Well, don’t be ashamed, you can improve yourself if you try. But I am impressed that you strung words together to make a complete sentence. You know, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then. Bravo nonetheless.
Andy in Agoura Hills on August 28, 2007 at 7:23 PM
If you were following along, which I doubt, I previously posted that his behavior was unacceptable.
Andy in Agoura Hills on August 28, 2007 at 7:24 PM
Andy of Agoura,
That was my point. People here and across the web think gay men are hypocrites if they are conservative. Liberals especially. But they are willfully ignorant or would prefer to bash a conservative repug. I’m guessing both.
As for Chrissy calling homosexuals deviants, I’ll wait to see GLBTA massively protesting in front of MSNBC. But odds are no one saw Chrissy’s show.
Andy in Agoura Hills on August 28, 2007 at 7:51 PM
Andy, just be quiet before the notoriously tolerant mods finally reach their limit. That’s just some friendly advice. You are free to take it or leave it…. but in case you don’t, farewell in advance.
To the story. Craig should resign, and hopefully he’ll change his mind. What good can he do now?
Vanceone on August 28, 2007 at 7:53 PM
Yeah. And all the Republican legislators who slip into heterosexual vice!!
It seems I’m in a minority here, but unless there’s something more than this “minuet pathetique”, I say we cut Sen. Craig some political slack. Besides, it is up to his state party and constituency whether he is banished to the political wilderness or ordered to rehab.
Finally, as a practical conservative I think that it is hypocritical to treat Republican politics like a call to the priesthood. American history is littered with politicians who advanced Liberty and the the Rule of Law, while being all too human by their own professed standards.
We need to learn from the Democrats and forgive, and stop calling our prodigal politicians, “crapweasels”. (LOL)
Morality is like “Greek Fire” of old… You’ll put your eye out.
Randy
williars on August 28, 2007 at 7:57 PM
You are clueless. And you know what you can do with your advice.
Andy in Agoura Hills on August 28, 2007 at 8:03 PM
Please. Can’t you stifle Andy after he’s taken up so much space. If I wanted to read his drek I could peruse the bathroom stalls at airports where he and craig meet.
HaileTsada on August 28, 2007 at 8:03 PM
Everyone’s going to tone down the rhetoric now or people are going to start getting banned. Okay?
Allahpundit on August 28, 2007 at 8:06 PM
If anyone happens to be bored enough to tune into Countdown-To-Ratings-Oblivion with Olby-One, he is in expectedly gleeful form tonight as he reports what he is calling “To Catch A Senator”. Only thing missing is Chris Hanson and his camera crew.
pilamaye on August 28, 2007 at 8:17 PM
Who says that he is “gay”? Notice how that is the only word he uses to describe what he is supposedly not.
Ever heard of “bi curious”?
corona on August 28, 2007 at 8:37 PM
If any of the allegations that go back quite a few years are true, he should’ve had his curiousity satisfied by now.
Regardless, it’s not the alleged gayness that’s the real issue (or at least it shouldn’t be), but the deviant behavior of cruising airport restrooms for sex and the crime to which he pled guilty.
Hollowpoint on August 28, 2007 at 8:46 PM
Andy of Agoura,
I don’t think my point was your point at all. For one thing, you are furious that this story is being reported and discussed at Hot Air, while I think that that complaint is patently absurd.
Yes, a lot of people think it is impossible to be gay and conservative. Yes, the vast majority of people who think that are from the Left (just like the Left doesn’t think it’s possible to be black and conservative) and, yes, a few are from the Right.
Whatever the case it has no bearing on whether or not this is a newsworthy story. Nor does the fact that this story is being discussed at this venue mean that we prefer to bash a conservative repug.
Buy Danish on August 28, 2007 at 8:57 PM
Being a senator is a pretty important job, and this guy needs help with whatever issues cause him to engage in this type of dangerous and offensive behavior. I’m really sick of senators treating the job like some kind of aristocratic entitlement and hanging on well past their productive years.
If he said, “Gee, I sorry, I didn’t realize how annoying this was others in the bathroom,” then it would be one thing. But he’s calling the cop a liar.
pedestrian on August 28, 2007 at 8:57 PM
I’m stunned at Chris Matthews mean spirited statement. Shouldn’t he be celebrating another starlet being freed from sexual repression? Shouldn’t he be offering to throw Sen. Craig a debutante ball?
burnitup on August 28, 2007 at 9:29 PM
After reading this long thread, Hot Air commentator, JannyMae had this to say:
I was more willing to give the cop the benefit of the doubt although while clearly stating I hate the guy for different reasons.
Yet with Craig standing fast in his insistence he isn’t gay, I don’t think JannyMae’s hunch should be dismissed so easily.
She may be right and this could be a worse act of malfeasance than the already outrageous police and/or prosecutorial abuse this case demonstrates if the cop is telling the truth.
[Link to Previous Thread.]
Christoph on August 29, 2007 at 12:29 AM
“Pervert” “Gay Sex criminal” and the utter shock that men’s rooms are the new bathhouses. You guys aren’t serious are you? I’ve never been in a bathroom where people weren’t jerking off,it’s gross and unseemly (and a man craig’s age should know better) but good lord let’s be honest. If there were men’s rooms where chicks hung out looking to jerk dudes off America would collapse as 90% of the male population stopped going to work.
And it’s is indeed possible that Craig isn’t “gay” but does love the cock. There’s a spectrum of sexuality, and Craig may prefer to be married to a woman and dig jerking off in bathorooms. I think that’s kinda gross, but so what? Craig hasn’t done anything 100,000 people aren’t doing right now around the country. He should be voted out for having piss poor judgement, but this guy’s not a criminal.
How many of us straight guys have sex in bathrooms, allys, the back seats of cars, parks etc. Are we all deviants too?
Rob Taylor on August 29, 2007 at 12:40 AM
Buy Danish, you’re not very bright.
First off, it’s Christoph without an “e”. Christoph with an “e” is the French spelling and I have German ancestry.
If that wasn’t enough to demonstrate you’re not very bright, and it is, your entire series of excerpts from my conversation in the previous thread, shows not one contradictory position:
a) Craig is stupid as demonstrated by his statement above, or a liar, or both.
b) Arresting and prosecuting a man under the circumstances as described in the cop’s own submission is a miscarriage of justice.
Creepy if true, but the cop was clearly going along with it, and touching someone’s foot in a mating ritual, even a gay man, even in a toilet, when the other person clearly gives you a signal back of their acquiescence, does not rise to the level sufficient to be a crime.
There is no contradiction there. What’s your point, Danishe?
Christoph on August 29, 2007 at 1:39 AM
Very, very, very well put.
Christoph on August 29, 2007 at 1:40 AM
Having sex with your girlfriend in a car? Been there, done that- kind of kinky, but generally private unless you’re in a crowded parking lot.
Soliciting sex from strangers in a busy public airport bathroom? Deviant.
And alleys? If crack-whores are your thing… you’re probably not a Senator.
Hollowpoint on August 29, 2007 at 2:02 AM
First, Minnesota statute:
Now, in a public airport bathroom do you not believe it reasonable to believe that someone repeatedly peering into your stall, stretching their foot into your stall to touch yours, and reaching under the stall door with their hand is at least boisterous or offensive, if not obscene? Wouldn’t such actions reasonably tend to arouse alarm, anger or resentment in others? Would you not at least be resentful if someone did that to you?
Not convinced? OK, another statute- Interference with privacy:
Me, I suspect that repeatedly peering into someone’s restroom stall would probably qualify.
Oh, and just to throw you a bone with outdated Puritan laws… I did discover that I’m a criminal, though not a terribly successful one:
Hollowpoint on August 29, 2007 at 2:26 AM
Its unfortunate but Craig lost his Senate Seat due to his own actions
Now what about Vitter, Hillary, Inouye, Kennedy, Stevens, Frank and Bird?
Murder, rape, prostitution, extortion, child sex rings, domestic terrorism, hate crimes, more fundraising corruption – somehow these do not rise to the level of the Packwood scale?
So a guy, taps his right foot, wiggles his fingers under a stall, trying to cheat on his wife – granted he’s gone and damn well should resign!
But now we have bonified criminals in the Senate still serving with honor?
Geez a little sense of reality here
EricPWJohnson on August 29, 2007 at 2:53 AM
OH CRAP – I just hope ALLAH SEES THIS PAINFUL CREW CLIP
Melanie Sloane of CREW ruins HERSELF on Tucker Carlson- she is no better than Miss Teen South Carolina….SERIOUSLY.
WARNING BRUTAL
no joke – watch it – it’s that bad
Topsecretk9 on August 29, 2007 at 3:03 AM
I think your concern with pleasing your staff is what got you in to this whole mess Senator, isn’t it?
RightWinged on August 29, 2007 at 5:06 AM
Lets get those ethics investigations going on
Sen Robert Byrd – murder, extortion, hate crimes, bribery, misuse of Federal funds (Monohan Charity Scandal)
Sen Ted Kennedy – murder, obstruction of Justice, accessory to rape, lying to law enforcement officials
Sen Daniel Inouye – sexual assault 4 counts, rape, obstruction of Justice
Sen Ted Stevens – bribery, obstruction of justice,
Sen David Vitter – prostitution
Sen Hillary Clinton – fraud, campaign finance violations
Sen Craig – hand waving, foot tapping, stupidity in the first degree
Sen Barney Frank – lying to Ethics Panel, Lying to federal officials, underage teenage prostitution, RICO
And don’t get me started on the house of Representatives
Lets all realize that A: Craig plead guilty and will be asked to resign
Seems we have a selective waters edge
TERM LIMITS is also a way to handle these people
EricPWJohnson on August 29, 2007 at 7:04 AM
Watching Craig’s statement immediately reminded me of this sketch from “Little Britain”…
sublime on August 29, 2007 at 9:17 AM
Term limits I don’t like (we get who we vote for), but their retirement or “double dipping” from the government. Be in the house, get a pension, be in the senate, get another pension, be appointed to a government postition, get another pension.
right2bright on August 29, 2007 at 9:17 AM
Good lord! If these brain dead Republicans don’t get their acts together soon, the senate will soon be 100% Democrats. What a disgusting mess they’re creating. As for Craig . . . get him out of there today.
rplat on August 29, 2007 at 10:04 AM
It didn’t discourage Craig!
We supply public restrooms at great expense and liability to allow privacy and dignity and to isolate the germs and hazards. We need public trust because people have to let their guard down to use a bathroom. Not everyone is America is so ‘hip’ they know the current sex hand signals nor so blase they think it is a privacy issue to the perp, not the victim
We need better for the Senate. Obviously the DEMs don’t care but someone, somewhere has to stand for public decency.
Last days, last days, get your Last Days of the
RomanUSA Empire hereentagor on August 29, 2007 at 12:59 PM
I think his speech writer could have found better opening words for Sen. Craig than “Thank you all very much for coming out today…”
Jonas Parker on August 29, 2007 at 1:02 PM
Attention BIG TENT democrats!
The Republican party is having a fire sale on homos and cross-dressers. You cannot afford to miss this opportunity to stock up while prices are this low. “Two fers” deals won’t last long, so contact Mr. Martinez care of the RNC in Florida to pick up a sexual deviant or two before the next election.
Hurry while supplies last…
saved on August 29, 2007 at 1:11 PM
That’s a pretty sick post.
I have no idea if Craig was guilty as charged, and I am a “nuture, not nature” believer, BUT I believe it is up to the individual to decide if they want to come out of the closet. I’m sure whoever leaked the Craig story is the same individual (s) who leaked the Foley story. It was political revenge for votes not going the way they wanted them to go. And that is just wrong.
Connie on August 29, 2007 at 1:20 PM
nuture=nurture
Connie on August 29, 2007 at 1:22 PM
Or maybe neuter. Maybe the asexuals have the right idea.
Connie on August 29, 2007 at 1:26 PM
If Craig were a Democrat they would now be saying that this man was a victim of repressive, conservative bias against homosexuality and so had to resort to this kind of thing. The Dems tend to rationalize even the worst behavior and place the blame on society, conservatives, the Christian right or anyone handy at the time rather than the person him/herself. “Flexible” ethics seem to be their hallmark.
jeanie on August 29, 2007 at 1:38 PM
He pled guilty. He is a U.S Senator. How do you maliciously leak a public record?
It just hit me. The GOP biggies are tippie toe about this. He was arrested in June 11. Were there any important votes requiring him back then? When was the Immigration Bill? The first vote was Memorial Day weekend.
Craig voted to kill the border fence in 2006 by supporting an amendment requiring the OK of the Mexican government. He voted in favor of final passage of S. 2611, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Axt of 2006.
Wallah! (Voila to Frenchies) The Amenesty Cloture vote was June 28, 2007
Senator Toe Tapper: Craig (R-ID), Yea
The Mystery is Resolved. Shame Shame Shame
entagor on August 29, 2007 at 1:52 PM
I guess I should add: why would the DEMs sit on this very public record? Perhaps they wanted his amnesty vote too!
They could save this very choice morsel to feast upon in a more useful news cycle
Guess the Senator had served his purpose
entagor on August 29, 2007 at 2:01 PM
Forgive my blog hogging but I promise this is the last:
A Senator who likes to toy with the devil is a very useful Senator indeed
entagor on August 29, 2007 at 2:07 PM
What Craig did wouldn’t be illegal in a bar, why should it be illegal in a restroom?
Because there is a strong expectation of privacy in restrooms, and since folks are more-or-less required to expose their “intimate parts” (as the statute refers to them) in order to use the facilities, it is a particulary pernicious place to try to push your unwanted flirting attempts onto someone.
You don’t have nearly the same vulnerability nor expectation of privacy in an airport lounge than you do in a restroom… nor should you expect one. The rules are different for a restroom because they should be.
Read the arrest report. The guy spent two minutes staring into the crack in the door while the other guy was on the john. He didn’t just “tap his foot”. He stood outside the stared inside for a prolonged period (and that alone is enough to violate the statute), he slid his foot entirely into the other guy’s stall, he swiped his hand repeatedly into the other stall, and when the officer signalled multiple times for him to leave, he didn’t and persisted in his efforts.
That’s not a simple misunderstanding on the officer’s part.
Re: his denying being gay and folks stating that perhaps he’s just “bi curious”… maybe he’s just formed an exploratory committee. =)
The best line I’ve heard out of Idaho so far after this:
“We don’t care whether he has a ‘wide stance’, we care about his stance on illegal immigration…”
The dude was a goner after shamnesty, this is just a nail in the coffin.
Barry Kearns on August 29, 2007 at 2:37 PM
And you went in anyway?
Seriously though – where do you live? I want to stay away from there. Far away.
John from WuzzaDem on August 29, 2007 at 6:50 PM
Me too. Considering the fact that I’ve skipped a few ladies lines and run into the guys’ room on occasion. (Not recently, but in my partying days).
Connie on August 30, 2007 at 3:16 AM
Footnote to the Thread:
Chris Matthews’s blog, Hardblogger (heh), has reiterated in print his comment that Larry Craig is a “sexual deviant”. As others have commented before me, I look forward to the boycotts, threats, parades, and vilification of MSNBC and Matthews from the GLBTA and other radical queer and deviant organizations.
Curiously, there are “zero comments” shown on this post, nor will my own profanity-free and thoughtful comment post. Cat got our tongue, Chrissy?
Jaibones on August 30, 2007 at 10:06 AM
“Am not!”
“Are too!”
“Am NOT!”
“Are too!”
…
mojo on August 30, 2007 at 3:27 PM
Wuzzadem I’m from Jesey but have been living in NYC. Also wento to Wesleyan in CT for a while. All mens rooms around these parts are “gay friendly” if you know what I mean. When I was a kid it really bothered me, but at 36, I’ve seen worse than a couple of dudes loooking into each others urinals and “shaking off”
Most gay bathroom in NY: Wahington Square park
Least Gay: Natural History Museum.
Rob Taylor on August 30, 2007 at 7:44 PM
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