Gregor on August 24, 2007 at 4:18 PM

Reasoned points.

And your asinine statement that adults “let them learn by their mistakes” exposes you as a control freak.

csdeven on August 24, 2007 at 6:25 PM

You are one sick b@st@rd and by far THE most dishonest person ever to post on this board.

The above quote that you attributed to me was written by YOU, friggin moron. Get some therapy.

I hope to goodness you nazi’s realize that CHILDREN are not born with adult values. They learn those values by making mistakes!

csdeven on August 24, 2007 at 9:43 AM

Twice now you’ve called many in here Nazis, simply because we believe what these kids did was pathetic and unsportsmanlike. I’m not sure you have a solid grasp of reality.

Csdeven’s theory that ‘it’s normal so just let them learn by their mistakes’ is pathetic but normal liberal garbage.

But to him, it’s the work of Nazis.

Gregor on August 24, 2007 at 4:18 PM

Do you really think these kids did not know it was wrong? It’s normal for kids to break the rules and adults have to be there to guide them through it. This is why in baseball, and other youth sports, the kids are on the field and the adults stay on the sidelines. When they go out of bounds, coaches guide them back inbounds.

So, yeah, you’re being a nazi by thinking that you have explained every single unacceptable behavior AND you are ignorant if you think for one minute that just because YOU said it that every kid is going to follow you in lockstep. And your asinine statement that adults “let them learn by their mistakes” exposes you as a control freak. You have no control over their mistakes nor do you control whether they learn from those mistakes. All you can do is explain the rules and when they break the rules, you use it as a teaching experience for them and not as a way for you to show the group how righteous you are. Once you start focusing on the kids and not yourself, you’ll see the wisdom in allowing kids to make mistakes in controlled environments.

Didn’t look to heartbroken to me.

Gregor on August 24, 2007 at 12:21 PM

Of course they were broken hearted. They’re 12 years old! Who wouldn’t be? That is why they behaved the way they did. I can see you standing in the dugout screaming at these kids for what they did rather than take the time and teach them a life lesson that will actually mean something. Look dude, get away from kids sports will ya? You obviously don’t know a dang thing about kids. You act like this was some practice game these kids just lost.

You might be right if these had been t-ballers, but they weren’t. They were 13, 14, and a few 15 year olds.
Gregor on August 24, 2007 at 12:25 PM

The kids on that team were at the oldest, 13 years old.

And again, for the last time. NO ONE said it was acceptable, but did say it was not out of the realm of expectation and don’t feel the need to turn this into an opportunity for the coaches to show how moral they are. It ain’t about the coaches, it’s about the kids.

right2bright on August 24, 2007 at 2:56 PM

I tend to agree with most of your points, but I do feel you’re looking at it from a rather simplistic angle.

So what is better? Putting a parent into situation where they can do more harm, or limiting the number of players in a league, dependent on the quality of coaches?

More harm than what? Telling a child he has to skip a year of baseball because there are no coaches? More harm than a kid having to jump to the Major division after missing a year of minors? More harm than telling a kid that he’ll have to sit and watch all of his friends play the game he loves for the next year and will not be able to participate?

I do see your point though, and your comment about arm injuries would be a possible answer …

I shudder at the number of kids who had worthless arms at the end of high school, because of the poor training in a young developing arm of a “prodigy”, or the coaches son whose are is blown out as a sophomore.

This has always been a problem in youth sports, but Little League Baseball has addressed that problem by changing the rules to limit players to a pitch limit. There are various youth leagues which do not set the same guidelines, so your point is still valid, but does not apply to ALL leagues or “professional coaches.” I coached a college player several years back who was throwing near 90s coming out of high school. While warming up prior to one of his scheduled starts, I noticed that he looked extremely weak, so I questioned him. He finally admitted that he had pitched both games of a double-header for an American Legion team just two days before being scheduled to start for his summer college program. This is absurd. He was one of those kids who always wanted the ball and would say anything to avoid being pulled, but his American Legion coach simply didn’t care about his health, instead sacrificing his future to win a playoff game. We scratched the start and were half-way through the season before he was able to throw again.

Maybe the parents who complain don’t coach because they know enough not to put themselves in a role they cannot fulfill.

Well, that could definitely be true, but I also know that many of the parents refuse to volunteer because they just don’t want the responsibility. Simply trying to staff the snack bar for an hour is like pulling teeth. But as I point out below, I would much rather see a parent volunteer than have 9 and 10 year olds be told they are not going to be able to play baseball for a year.

I am talking about the coaches who think they are the real coaches, you know them as the “professional” coach who has been around for years. They will do anything to win, and they teach the kids to do the same.

I’m not sure of your point here. First you say the kids should not be taught by amateur coaches who might do more harm due to their inexperience, but now you’re ripping “professional” or “real” coaches as somehow dangerous. I’m not sure what kind of bad experience you’ve had in the past with a certain coach, or coaches, but I know from experience that the majority of “professional coaches” do not fit the mold you just described. At least, not at the youth level. Do these coaches exist? Absolutely, and I’ve ran into many of them. But most coaches I’ve worked with teach morals, sportsmanship, teamwork, respect, effort AND … that winning is NOT the most important thing. While I teach kids that winning IS important and IS the ultimate goal of sports, I also teach them that losing is part of the game and should be a learning experience. I teach them that if you’re going to lose, it’s important to lose while practicing the above rules (morals, sportsmanship, teamwork, respect, effort). It’s important HOW you lose, just as it’s important HOW you win. Any coach that is teaching kids that winning is “not important” is teaching kids to live in an unrealistic world. You’re teaching them to fail. Classic liberal philosophy. Doesn’t matter if you lose, as long as you have fun. Everyone’s a winner. Blah, blah, blah. This world is brutal and those who try the hardest and understand that you can’t sleep through life are usually successful.

Naturally the “fill in” coaches of parents do a better job than those “great” little league coaches. The “fill-in” won’t win the league championship, but they have their pizza nights, everyone plays, they make sure their studies are up, they create the real athletes.

While this is a really sweet sounding comment, it’s not really true. Just as with “professional coaches” there are good and bad among them. Some “fill in coaches” will end up doing a great job, and others will make the kids entire season miserable. Believe it or not, there ARE youth players out there who WANT to play baseball and WANT to play professionally. It almost seems like you think all youth players are only playing because their parents are livig through them and forcing them to. I doubt these “everyone plays” fun fun fun, nobody loses coaches would be much help for these kid’s dreams.

We had a minor league team this season where the two “fill-in coaches” failed to even show up at two of the games which had to be canceled. But even then, the alternative would have been to have the kids not have a team at all. They played 12 games, had a great time, met lots of new friends, and two of the players were on the all-star team. I’m not sure the players would be okay with the alternative that you suggested.

The bottom line is that it’s up to parents, teachers, and coaches to teach these kids how to be good people. Csdeven’s theory that ‘it’s normal so just let them learn by their mistakes’ is pathetic but normal liberal garbage.

But to him, it’s the work of Nazis.

Gregor on August 24, 2007 at 12:02 PM

Maybe the parents who complain don’t coach because they know enough not to put themeselves in a role they cannot fulfill.
So what is better? Putting a parent into situation where they can do more harm, or limiting the number of players in a league, dependent on the quality of coaches?
I am not talking about the parent in the stand yelling to let his kid pitch or even play. I am talking about the ability of coaches to motivate, teach, and develop skills that do not “blow” out an arem when they are 16. I shudder at the number of kids who had worthless arms at the end of high school, because of the poor training in a young developing arm of a “prodigy”, or the coaches son whose are is blown out as a sophomore. Same goes for football, check the medical stats.

I am talking about the coaches who think they are the real coaches, you know them as the “professional” coach who has been around for years. They will do anything to win, and they teach the kids to do the same.
Natually the “fill in” coaches of parents do a better job than thos “great” little league coaches. The “fill-in” won’t win the league championship, but they have their pizza nights, everyone plays, they make sure their studies are up, they create the real athletes.

Diseases contagious from saliva: Common Cold, Flu, Upper Respiratory Infection, Meningitis, Bacterial meningitis, Mononucleosis, Epstein-Barr virus, Cold sores, Cytomegalovirus, Molluscum contagiosum, Hepatitis B, Chronic Hepatitis B, Polio.

Zaire67 on August 24, 2007 at 2:17 PM

Now that warrants an ewww.

What these players did was very disgusting and very unsafe. After playing a baseball game, it’s not uncommon for players to have cuts on their hands. The act is not as innocuous as some people would have us believe.

Diseases contagious from saliva: Common Cold, Flu, Upper Respiratory Infection, Meningitis, Bacterial meningitis, Mononucleosis, Epstein-Barr virus, Cold sores, Cytomegalovirus, Molluscum contagiosum, Hepatitis B, Chronic Hepatitis B, Polio.

A kid from the other team mocked us by continually quoting the score when we were “displaying sportsmanship”

I find this also unacceptable behavior. This is a problem in sports anymore. People haven’t taught their kids to win or lose graciously. Yea, it sucks to lose, but it happens, learn to deal with it. But if you win, don’t be arrogant about it, either, because at some point, you will lose and wouldn’t like someone else doing that to you. Buck up.

The joking around etc is a defensive response to the loss. Stay away from kids will ya?!

csdeven on August 24, 2007 at 11:43

You might be right if these had been t-ballers, but they weren’t. They were 13, 14, and a few 15 year olds. T-ballers laugh and joke after a loss because they don’t relize it’s a competition. When is the last time you’ve watched a high school baseball game? Have you ever seen the losing team jumping up and down laughing and cracking jokes immediately following a loss? You have no idea what you’re talking about.

I understand the ‘boys will be boys’ issue, but I have a real problem with it in team sports. Adults should be very careful and consistent in addressing these issue.

I think pandering to this behavior can lead to our sports ‘professionals’ believing they are immune to correction…the NBA is not alone in this either. I see it in MLB, NFL, NHL, etc. Where does it NOT occur, it seems?

I may be a woman, but I am a sports NUT. I have watched the NFL most, and have since 1974. I have seen the change over the past 30+ years, and I think it stems (in part) from adults not addressing this issue in adolescent team sports.

There is a time and place for the boys to be boys (I am ALL for that, and sometimes participate…when it’s the right time & place) and a time and place where they must learn to be good winners and good losers.

On the field is where they should learn the latter.

And people like you who think all kids are little angels because YOU are the coach are basically exhibiting narcissistic behavior.

csdeven on August 24, 2007 at 11:40 AM

I never suggested kids are little angels. I suggested that the disgusting action these kids participated in was unacceptable. I hope you can comprehend the difference. And the fact that I’m not going to allow my players to participate in such activity does not mean my players are angels. It simply means that I’m not teaching my kids that they can do any perverted and warped thing they want, which is apparently what you teach your kids … if you’re (God forbid) actually involved in the activities you say you are.

They were obviously heartbroken.
So heart-broken is not a strong emotion?

Why are you lying like a crazy person? Are you able to read, or are you doing this on purpose?

I was using sarcasm when I suggested that their “busting a gut laughing” indicated they were heartbroken. Do you have the ability to comprehend what you read? You said they reacted the way they were because they were heartbroken, and I pointed out the fact that they looked more like they were having a birthday party with all of the laughing going on. Didn’t look to heartbroken to me.

See, I told you it happens and you were lying.

csdeven on August 24, 2007 at 11:40 AM

Who’s lying csdeven? I said I had never seen “THIS” happen, which was in response to kids spitting on their hands before shaking the hands of the opponent. Did I say it’s never happened? And nowhere in any of my comments have I ever said that I’ve never seen poor sportsmanship.

And which comment of mine was responding to you saying it happens? Is your argument that week that you have to resort to dishonesty?

JannyMae on August 24, 2007 at 11:57 AM

Are you incapable of comprehending what is written? I haven’t seen anyone justify it as the preferred behavior. The focus is on coaches who would rather work out their own demaons on the kids instead of accepting that boys will be boys and dealing with the issue in a way that benefits the kids and not the narcissistic adult.

I personally advise you to take your own advice about overreacting…you seem to be taking it personally too.
Miss_Anthrope on August 24, 2007 at 11:56 AM

I don’t take it personally. I am disgusted by it.

right2bright on August 24, 2007 at 11:36 AM

LOL! Actually, I agree with you 100%. I do have to point out though, that most little league coaches are simply parents who are filling in because of a lack of coaches in the league. They are volunteers who are sometimes pressured into taking the position. So yes, you’re correct. I would agree that most little league coaches SEEM to be absolute morons. If you have kids playing little league, you’ve no doubt experienced the phone calls from Board Members begging for coaches. Have you every volunteered to coach? I’ve been involved in youth leagues which had to actually threaten parents that their kid’s team would have to be dropped if someone didn’t volunteer to coach it. If you stood up and volunteered in this position, even with no knowledge of baseball, would that make you a moron, or just someone attempting to help out?

At the same time, I would also point out that almost ALL parents who call their kid’s coaches morons are in fact morons themselves with absolutely zero baseball experience. Most parents who whine and complain about the coaches wouldn’t be able to tell you which direction to stand at the plate. And most parents who call the coaches morons have previously refused to fill the position themselves. So I think it’s pretty much a wash.

“Boys will be boys.” Yeah, and the job of parents is to teach boys how to lose gracefully, and not act like jerks. I watched the clip. These boys had a serious attitude problem. The AZ team, “victimized,” them? Gimme a break!

I, too, would like to know what the reaction of the coaches was to this little behavior. If they condoned it, they set a bad example. Having been on the receiving end of a stunt that a baseball coach in my 12-yr. old’s league pulled, that was very poor sportsmanship, I’m not inclined to say this behavior was acceptable because, “boys will be boys.”

Excusing bad behavior leads to more bad behavior. Just look at the NBA.

csdeven on August 24, 2007 at 11:40 AM

I personally advise you to take your own advice about overreacting…you seem to be taking it personally too.

Just a thought. :)

So heart-broken is not a strong emotion? Do me a favor, STAY away from children in a teacher role!

The joking around etc is a defensive response to the loss. Stay away from kids will ya?!

countywolf on August 24, 2007 at 11:08 AM

Moron.

of our moronic bully kids attemting to elbow one of the opposing players as he walked through the line.
Gregor on August 24, 2007 at 11:19 AM

See, I told you it happens and you were lying. I guarantee you in the years I have coached baseball, softball, football, and been very involved in scouting, that stuff goes on behind coaches and parents backs. And people like you who think all kids are little angels because YOU are the coach are basically exhibiting narcissistic behavior.

They were obviously heartbroken.

So heart-broken is not a strong emotion? Do me a favor, STAY away from children in a teacher role!

And all you knee-jerking crybabies missed the entire point. NO ONE every said it was the preferred behavior. The point was that it happens and rather than being self righteous and fixing the blame, do something constructive and fix the problem.

You are all over reacting because of your own issues and making the kids suffer for your short comings. You should be doing that which will make them better players and people.