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Jen the Neocon on August 20, 2007 at 8:59 AM

Who amongst us treats this like a sporting event?

I don’t know, you tell me. Did I say anyone on this blog was? NO. My response that you are referring to was to someone who asked me if I thought this was a game. You are being much too “sensitive” and choose to completely ignored the context.

You implied that “neocons” like me did treat it like a game and that only you were serious and thoughtful about it.
No sense in denying it.

Your comments are highly offensive.

No they are not. If you consider my comments so offense, what about the seven soldiers who are the subject of this thread? Do you consider them offensive too?

Yes, they are offensive and yes, I’m bothered that these 7 soldiers would complain to the Enemedia.

Neither do the seven soldiers who are the subject of this thread.

Dog faces always seem to know better than their commanders, don’t they?

You seem to have a very Iraqi centric view of the world. I do not.

The President and the Pentagon (Gen. Petraeus) say that Iraq is the key front in the war and I believe them.

Neither do most Americans. About 70 % last I heard.

I don’t follow polls and anyway, you gave no link or cite for your number.

Are you so sure that the troops want you to “root” for them to stay in Iraq? Second, third, fourth tours? 15 month tours?

How many tours they serve is totally their choice, but I do know that the overwhelming majority of our soldiers support the mission.
(That’s why these 7 are a “story” to the NYSlimes.)

I am “rooting” for them to come home. Our future does not lie in Iraq. Iraq is not the center of the universe.

I’m rooting for them to come home, too–after achieving victory.
Our future does lie in Iraq…right now. And Afghanistan.
They are the main fronts in the WOT.

No it is not. Not in Iraq. The Bush Iraq vison is a lost cause and the sooner that is realized the better.
MB4 on August 20, 2007 at 1:17 AM

It is not a “lost cause.”
And I will never accept or realize that democracy and cleaning AQ out of Iraq isn’t better than what they had before we got there or would have under an Islamist theocracy.
What I said above still stands:
To suggest that this is nothing more than a “game” with domestic political power being the prize is cynicism and jaded partisanship at its worst and the sooner it’s removed from the equation of winning this war, the better.

Your opposition to the war isn’t based on any reasoning, rationale or intelligent analysis of the situation, either long or short term but is based on pure political partisan contrarianism.
You are the new lead Liberal troll here at HA who replaced Honora.
I usually skip all your replies but since you addressed mine directly, I did you the favor of countering your repeated lies.
Have a nice day!

Jen the Neocon on August 20, 2007 at 12:23 AM

No, it is NOT like a sis-boom-bah go-our-team sporting event to me and it is CERTAINLY NOT for our troops either, that’s why I want them out of there.

MB4 on August 19, 2007 at 9:08 PM

Who amongst us treats this like a sporting event? Not me and certainly not our soldiers!
Your comments are highly offensive.
This is a war for our safety, survival and security and fine men and women have lost their lives or been hurt fighting it.
To even suggest that we who support the war and who resent bad news of setbacks or inadequate progress (much of which is exaggerated for the Leftist MSM)and who rejoice in good news from the front are nothing but team cheerleaders is appalling.
We are “rooting” for our troops and our country and for the future of a free Iraq and a free Aghanistan.
We are the good guys and backing our war effort and victory is worth everything we’ve risked.
To suggest that this is nothing more than a “game” with domestic political power being the prize is cynicism and jaded partisanship at its worst and the sooner it’s removed from the equation of winning this war, the better.

bnelson44 on August 19, 2007 at 8:05 PM

No, it is NOT like a sis-boom-bah go-our-team sporting event to me and it is CERTAINLY NOT for our troops either, that’s why I want them out of there.

Is this all a game to you?

WMD – check
Odai/Qusay – check
Saddam Hussein – check
Zarqawi – check
Elections – check

Democracy? They have a new constitution – not based on our values, but theirs – namely shariah. Under this set-up, Chaldeans and Assyrian Christians are fleeing to (of all places) Syria (while the US plans to takein 7000 Iraqi Muslim refugees). Which of them – Shia or Sunni – are pro US? Shia? They are mainly supporting Iran and Hizbullah. Sunni? They are either supporting Saddam’s Baathists, or Zarqawi’s al Qaeda. Kurds?sure, they are the most grateful of the lot, but we aren’t supporting a separate Kurdistan. So which of the people who we are trying to support actually deserves it?

And once again – what’s our mission _now_? Resolving whether Mohammed’s rightful successor was Umar or Ali? If there is a civil war between pro-Hizbullah Shia and pro-Ikhwan Sunni, whose side should we pick? Should we even stop such a fight?”

- InfidelPride from JihadWatch

Just understand that, if the Americans lose, they’re worse than the terrorists.

Kralizec on August 19, 2007 at 7:10 PM

The Americans won the Iraq war. If Americans allow others to frame what we have done as a loss, bad on Americans for allowing this to occur.

Kralizec on August 19, 2007 at 7:10 PM

Huh?

I think that the Kurds would probably welcome a few tens of thousand of our troops.

MB4 on August 19, 2007 at 3:34 PM

Yes. that’s the point. We are not going to be leaving the country for a very long time regardless of who is elected next year. Unless absolutely necessary our forces should not be put in the middle as convenient targets for both sides. Be there (in Iraq) to protect the larger strategic interests of the region but not to be targets of opportunity in an urban environment.

Murphy – “Success is alway just around the next corner.”

William Amos on August 19, 2007 at 6:07 PM

I’ll go with that.

I think the biggest and really only mistake they made was taking their experiences in a small part of the war and extrapolating them out to the entire theater. As Grim points out the situation changes dramatically at times. We are nearing a tipping point and even if not all see it, progress is certainly being made.

Cordially,

Uncle J
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/08/coin-on-the-war.html#comment-79986629

bnelson44 on August 19, 2007 at 5:58 PM

No apology in the least bit needed or called for. I was not offended. We are just bouncing things around.

I never said they know everything.

I have simply maintained that they know quite a good bit, from their own experiences and those with whom they have contact with, and that is probably enough to give a pretty reasonable picture. A better one than we are going to get through “channels”.

MB4 on August 19, 2007 at 4:59 PM

You have ONE article that quotes 7 non coms. And they are suppose to speak for the whole army ?

Your ASSUMING they talked to others and that they have a better grip on what is going on. I’ll take facts thank you not assumptions.

Im not saying that they are right or wrong Im saying Im not taking them as the only source on Iraq.