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NYT: Partial British withdrawal from Basra has been disastrous — so let’s shoot for total withdrawal

posted at 11:46 pm on August 12, 2007 by Allahpundit
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It’s a testament to how vague their Iraq prescriptions are and how buggered is their logic about withdrawal that on the first read-through of this I thought they had changed their minds since last month and were now calling for a significant U.S. troop presence into next year to keep the peace. Nope; don’t think so, at least. Here’s their reasoning as best as I can parse it:

1. The British experiment of withdrawing and pulling back from Basra has been a complete disaster, with the city transformed into a gangland for Shiite militias and the small Brit force holed up at the airport under constant attack.

2. As bad as conditions are in Basra, they’ll actually be worse when the U.S. withdraws because of the much greater number of neighborhoods mixed by sect in the north.

3. Ergo, the lesson is … to withdraw as completely as possible so as not to leave behind even a token force lest they suffer the Brits’ fate when the country descends into anarchy. Quote:

If anyone outside the White House truly believes this can work — that the United States can simply stay in Iraq in reduced numbers, while ignoring the civil war and expecting Iraqi forces to impose order— the British experience demonstrates otherwise. There simply aren’t reliable, effective and impartial Iraqi forces ready to keep the cities safe, nor are they likely to exist any time soon. And insurgents are not going to stop attacking Americans just because the Americans announce that they’re out of the fight…

The clear lesson of the British experience it is that going partway is not a realistic option.

The United States cannot walk away from the new international terrorist front it created in Iraq. It will need to keep sufficient forces and staging points in the region to strike effectively against terrorist sanctuaries there or a Qaeda bid to hijack control of a strife-torn Iraq.

But there should be no illusions about trying to continue the war on a reduced scale. It is folly to expect a smaller American force to do in a short time what a much larger force could not do over a very long time. That’s exactly what the British are now trying to do. And the results are painfully plain to see.

By “sufficient forces … in the region,” they mean special ops teams and air assets in Kurdistan, Kuwait, or Qatar to stage pinpoint raids on foreign jihadis as circumstances warrant. (See their editorial last month for more on that.) They’re not talking about keeping “sufficient forces” in Iraq to provide basic security, in other words; on the contrary, they’re calling for withdrawal notwithstanding the Basra-like collapse in security they anticipate. They’re simply saying that when the troops step aside, they should step far enough that they don’t get clipped by the onrushing freight train. Or have I misread them?

Update: Well, it’s probably all academic anyway.


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Hey, now, that’s some logic I can really get behind.

…or not…

/scratching my head on this one and hoping someone can help me out here…

Bob's Kid on August 12, 2007 at 11:52 PM

Or have I misread them?

Not at all. Is this really a surprise to anyone? If anything, this should send a clear message to the Iraqi’s, themselves, that they are going to have to step up and fight for their country – city, by city. It should also send a clear message to the Democrats that a cut-and-run strategy (or setting timetables for withdrawal) are ideals which are stupid and demonstrate real ignorance of the situation on the ground. You know, like it or not, agree with Bush or not, there is a very real consequence for leaving this country too soon. There is a consequence to the Iraqi people, the region, and the U.S. and western society at large. What will it take for people to see this?

thedecider on August 12, 2007 at 11:53 PM

Nuance.

favorite word this month, AP? hehe

shooter on August 12, 2007 at 11:56 PM

By “sufficient forces … in the region,” they mean special ops teams and air assets in Kurdistan, Kuwait, or Qatar to stage pinpoint raids on foreign jihadis as circumstances warrant.

Pinpoint raids as circumstances warrant? Riiiight. Like keeping such close tabs on terrorist training camps that we know exactly when they “empty out” and yet observe without taking any action?

RushBaby on August 13, 2007 at 12:08 AM

On the other hand, there is the point of view that no matter what we do in Iraq that the religious muslims are going to continue their war against us. We have the option of seriously fighting the muslims or not. By seriously fighting, I don’t mean George W pussy warfare, but real warfare to win.

thuja on August 13, 2007 at 12:10 AM

re: update

Some pissant British parliamentary committee wants to furnish the straw that breaks noble Great Britain.

Don’t let ‘em do it, Brits!

RushBaby on August 13, 2007 at 12:24 AM

Peace through surrender. How European!

Mojave Mark on August 13, 2007 at 12:29 AM

is that the same logic that says shamnesty is the only answer to the illegal immigration problem ?

Mojack420 on August 13, 2007 at 12:39 AM

Any place you can kill kjihadis is a good place.

But the methods (rules of engagement) are so self-cripppling that we lose troops because they are being forced to do footpatrols into sniper-zone or boody-trapped houses, or are driving insufficently-strong vehicles into murderous IED’s.

I thought this would be a fight to crush the Jihad and force our will on the terrorists and their supporters.

Sadly, it has become a “hearts and minds” folly.

Crush their will, the rest will follow.

And if it doesn;t crush what’s left.

This is an apocalpytic conflict (Koranically-induced), and our side fights it like it is Korea, redux.

The Jihadists will not settle for such a benign stalemate.

Opening their instuction manual (Koran) shows that it is a fight for world conquest to their most devout.

Either we kill these devotees of terror as fast as we can, or we tempt their gaining enough power to make our hesitation to crush them a crime …of mass-suicide …of ourselves.

profitsbeard on August 13, 2007 at 12:52 AM

Meanwhile, the very same newspaper reports:

Even as they call for an end to the war and pledge to bring the troops home, the Democratic presidential candidates are setting out positions that could leave the United States engaged in Iraq for years.

Also, Iraqi politics may be a bit more complicated than we read about in the NYT.

Karl on August 13, 2007 at 1:00 AM

So what’s your prescription for Iraq?

B26354 on August 13, 2007 at 1:30 AM

Ergo, the lesson is … to withdraw as completely as possible so as not to leave behind even a token force lest they suffer the Brits’ fate when the country descends into anarchy.

The wise man does now what the fool does later.
- Niccolo Machiavelli

MB4 on August 13, 2007 at 1:35 AM

There is a way to fight this war but everyone’s scared to talk about it, lest it actually look like a real war, which everyone agrees could never happen in this frezied media age. It is/was Bush’s job to prepare the homefront and massage it to the correct attitude for the context. He failed in that and the libs ran in the exact opposite direction screaming their heads off, as libs are apt to do in their manic phases.

It is all very sad.

progressoverpeace on August 13, 2007 at 2:38 AM

The US and UK can’t put humpty dumpty back together again. The Britsh tried to nation-build Iraq in 1917 and failed. The country is worse off than it was 90 years ago so why should things go any better this time around?

aengus on August 13, 2007 at 2:52 AM

George W. Bush himself on October 11 2000 –

“Maybe I’m missing something here. I mean, we’re going to have kind of a nation-building corps from America? Absolutely not. Our military’s meant to fight and win war. That’s what it’s meant to do. And when it gets overextended, morale drops. But I’m going to be judicious as to how to use the military. It needs to be in our vital interest, the mission needs to be clear, and the exit strategy obvious.”

And no 9/11 did not override that. It should have reinforced it.

MB4 on August 13, 2007 at 3:02 AM

And no 9/11 did not override that. It should have reinforced it.

MB4 on August 13, 2007 at 3:02 AM

I automatically ignore any quotes prior to September 11, 2001. Everything before that is irrelevant.

Nonfactor on August 13, 2007 at 4:49 AM

I just heard on MSNBC that Carl Rove will resign. Will this have any affect on anything?

pugsly on August 13, 2007 at 5:37 AM

Oops, that’s supposed to be “effect.”

pugsly on August 13, 2007 at 5:38 AM

The US “surge” of troops in Iraq is likely to fail, a British parliamentary committee said…

You know, every time I’ve watched Prime Minister’s Questions, what’s really lept out at me is the dramatically impressive military acumen of the British MP’s. It’s just self-evident to the casual observer. Reading the update link, you’d be convinced they’d gotten those chops from our own best military experts, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

eeyore on August 13, 2007 at 7:02 AM

Or have I misread them?

No, I think the person who wrote this is confused. That or he’s trying to ride the fence between total commitment and total pullout.

csdeven on August 13, 2007 at 7:58 AM

So things are getting better where we’ve increased the number of troops and it’s gotten worse where the Brits have reduced the number of troops. Wow, imagine that.

Tony737 on August 13, 2007 at 7:59 AM

Where is Longshanks when you need him?

mjkazee on August 13, 2007 at 8:15 AM

How is this a civil war when 75% or more of the attacks are committed by foreigners???

This guy’s a prat…

Miss_Anthrope on August 13, 2007 at 10:00 AM

Well, I think the NYT is sort of getting it. The rest of the left will hopefully realize sooner rather than later there are really only two options in Iraq: Stay in it to win it, or withdrawl completely. Anything else is just getting men killed for no reason. I think that NYT is admitting that the idea of “partial withdrawl” a.k.a. “sacrificing men’s lives to save face” really wont work. And since they don’t care about the plight of Iraqis, or rather, it’s all George Bush’s fault anyway so they don’t have to care, best to retreat completely. Let the chips fall where they may.

I love though that they consider it a better idea for the US to allow a new terrorist front to be created than to stay in Iraq.

Also, wait, Iraq would be a new terrorist front??
HOW??

There are no terrorists in Iraq! It’s a civil war!

apollyonbob on August 13, 2007 at 11:44 AM

I automatically ignore any quotes prior to September 11, 2001. Everything before that is irrelevant.

Nonfactor on August 13, 2007 at 4:49 AM

And on September 11, 2001 God created the heavens and the earth. Before that there was only a void.

MB4 on August 13, 2007 at 2:11 PM

MB4 on August 13, 2007 at 3:02 AM

That quote is exactly what is wrong today. That he said it before Sept 11 doesn’t mean it is wrong. The whole point is exactly that policy did not change after sept 11, we are using the same failed formula which he campaigned against. If the Iraq eventually turns out okay it will only be beacuse of Bush’s sheer stubborness not because he used a good method.

Resolute on August 13, 2007 at 9:24 PM

If the Iraq eventually turns out okay it will only be beacuse of Bush’s sheer stubborness not because he used a good method.

Resolute on August 13, 2007 at 9:24 PM

If Iraq turns out OK it will be prove positive that there has been divine intervention, and a whole lot of it.

MB4 on August 13, 2007 at 10:22 PM

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