Intel jittery as Al Qaeda’s training camps empty out; Update: NYPD maintains alert
posted at 2:19 pm on August 11, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Two probably but not certainly unrelated stories for you here, starting with the dumber one first. The NYPD was on full alert for a dirty bomb last night thanks to a report of jihadi chatter from … Debkafile, whose credibility is so low that I actually had people snarking at me in the comments after I posted their item in headlines. The cops had no choice but to take it seriously, obviously, and in their defense some of the chatter was awfully specific:
Police confirmed the increased security was in response to receiving information that a dirty bomb may go off around 34th street in Manhattan Friday evening.
The Empire State Building, New York City’s tallest building, Madison Square Garden and Macy’s department store are in the 34th Street neighborhood.
The feds were “deeply skeptical” but the NYPD took nothing for granted: an alert was sent out for a 50-mile radius and patrols involved choppers, boats, and of course checkpoints. They were set to stand down by noon today if nothing panned out so presumably the alert is already over.
Now for the serious stuff. Must read from Roggio:
On the same day of the release of news on concerns over the security of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal and the loyalty of the Pakistani military, the Asia Times’ Syed Saleem Shahzad reported al Qaeda and Taliban camps in North and South Waziristan have emptied, the Taliban and al Qaeda are expanding into the settled districts of the Northwest Frontier Province, and are reorganizing in both Afghanistan and Pakistan for a major fight.
The Fourth Rail interviewed a senior military intelligence official and a military officer, both of whom are familiar with the situation in the Northwest Frontier Province and wish to remain anonymous. The sources confirmed Mr. Shahzad’s information concerning the al Qaeda and Taliban camps in North Waziristan and the Taliban’s reorganization is accurate. Both sources are particularly concerned about the implications of the emptying of the camps…
The emptying of the camps is a cause for great concern in the military and intelligence communities. “We don’t know where they went to or who was in the camps,” the military officer told The Fourth Rail.. “They are well trained, these aren’t your entry level jihadis. They are dangerous.”
“This is one of the reasons that we are worried about a major CONUS [Continental United States] attack,” the senior military intelligence source told The Fourth Rail, noting the recent influx of news of terror cells attempting to penetrate the US. “If they evacuated their bases, they almost certainly did so out of fear of more than just the Pakistani army.”
Also at the link: Who’s got the launch codes for Pakistan’s nukes? No one’s quite sure. Click!
Update: The alert is still on through Saturday.
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Islam must be defeated and marginalized just as Shintoism was in Japan. There is no other way – they leave no other choice – except dhimmitude, which is nothing less than total submission.
Whether I’m right or wrong, as you say, a hell of a lot of Muslims will have to die before Islam can be backwatered like Shintoism. Who kills them is a matter of us deciding how many we’re willing to sacrifice of our own while we’re dicking around with them. Do we have the intestinal fortitude of our forebears?
Redhead Infidel on August 11, 2007 at 9:46 PM
Question: If we know the AQ camps are emptying does that mean we knew where these camps were? And if so, why didn’t we empty them ourselves with a few cruise missiles?
Opinionnation on August 11, 2007 at 9:53 PM
there seems to be a constant theme that has come from the, for lack of a better explanation, pro carpet bombers. That somehow we need to make the muslim poputation in the middle east sit down and watch american idol drink beer and pick their favorite football team. The point is to show that we are not the ones who are putting them into their situation. in fact we can very easily show them that we are actually the ones who do most good in this world. But it is going to only come from inside their own communities. I look back at the renesaince. It took out spoken people like martin luther to awaken people to what was really going on. right now people like martin luther are killed for speaking out. So we are protecting who we can, teaching better ways of learning, farming and overall self preservation so they wont need to rely on the radicals that are keeping them dependant. This plan has a chance to work over time. I dont see how destroying entire villages do.
CaptainObvious on August 11, 2007 at 9:56 PM
I prefer to keep my stereotypes to fewer than one billion people.
I’m not a student of military strategy but I’m pretty sure that Sun Zu never taught “Unite your enemies”.
TunaTalon on August 11, 2007 at 10:02 PM
Upon posting, my comment sounded like we disagree. I’m typing on my phone and it’s not conducive to clarity.
We do agree, we need to encourage our “allies” to kill our enemies. The only problem with that is it’s inefficiency and slowness. Meanwhile, lots of Americans die.
I guess the bottom line is: never send a Muslim to do a free man’s job.
Redhead Infidel on August 11, 2007 at 10:02 PM
We don’t do the uniting – the Koran does.
Redhead Infidel on August 11, 2007 at 10:10 PM
I have wrestled with the japanese aspect of this as well. there is a big difference though. true it was a religion but it was the government we were worried about not cells of japanese all over the world. I can assure you there were tons of japanese that still believed the americans were descendents of the anscestors that came out of the nose of their gods. But they didnt have the capability to inflict damage to our homeland. and as time went along and the government of japan showed they could cooexist with us those people slowly came to the same conclusion. This is a totally different situation.
CaptainObvious on August 11, 2007 at 10:13 PM
You’ll have to show us in the Koran where it teaches them to accept the infidel after said infidel has saved them from their enemy.
The Koran teaches them not to CARE about those points. It teaches them to observe the teachings of the Koran without question. If the infidel is stupid enough to defeat their enemy for them, then a pox upon them because until the infidel converts to the Muslim faith, they are of less worth than a cow.
Now tell me, just how much good can a cow do that a follower of the true God should reject the true Gods teachings and listen to the cow?
csdeven on August 11, 2007 at 10:32 PM
would you please read the entire thing before jumping on a strawman
CaptainObvious on August 11, 2007 at 10:40 PM
You’re exactly right. Which makes stopping them even more crucial. To stop them, we’ll have to destroy their belief system (thus the similarity to Shintoism), because we certainly can’t live with it.
I know that sounds harsh, but that’s exactly what we did with Shintoism (and Nazism, for that matter) , and we can do nothing less now. As you’ve pointed out, the stakes are higher than they’ve ever been.
Redhead Infidel on August 11, 2007 at 10:42 PM
The obvious difference is that the Japanese had a rigid hierarchical structure while Islam is a completely flat structure. There is no head of Islam to cut off, no command and control system to sever.
A recent episode of Star Gate SG-1 had an alien intelligence suddenly understand “Ah an assumption of hierarchical command structure”. This is a natural assumption of our western culture, but not true of Islam. Just as there are cells of Islam that are our deadly enemy, there are cells that are our natural allies.
Assuming that all Muslims are alike makes our thinking easier. Getting some of them as allies makes the fighting easier.
It will be a long war. Who wins depends on who fights.
TunaTalon on August 11, 2007 at 10:44 PM
Good to see others quickly referring to Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald on this thread.
Few fully comprehend the global muslim dynamic as well as Hugh Fitzgerald can explain it either in a macro or micro view. Our State Dept. would be well advised to seek his counsel.
heroyalwhyness on August 11, 2007 at 10:51 PM
Tuna, I don’t think anything will make the fighting easier – certainly not the half-hearted “help”of questionable “allies”. We can, however, make the Long War shorter.
Redhead Infidel on August 11, 2007 at 11:01 PM
I’m not a student of military strategy but I’m pretty sure that Sun Zu never taught “Unite your enemies”.
TunaTalon on August 11, 2007 at 10:02 PM
To conquer the enemy without resorting to war is the most desirable. The highest form of generalship is to conquer the enemy by strategy.
-Sun Tzu
If your enemy wins the war, you are defeated.
- Sun Tzu’s nephew
MB4 on August 11, 2007 at 11:23 PM
Call me naive, but if we know where the camps are, why aren’t we bombing the living F*** out of them?
I’m sure there’s a really good reason and everything… :BIGGESTROLLEYESONEARTH:
Metro on August 12, 2007 at 1:23 AM
“Do not take Christians or Jews as allies. (Sura 5:51) You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are transgressors [Sura 60:9]“.
The Koran says so.
Try disagreeing with it to a believing Muslim as a despised and lowly infidel.
The Koran closes their hearts and minds if they believe its dogmas.
Psyops and propaganda need to attack the Koran.
It has fatal flaws that Muslims are not being allowed to learn of (e.g.: alternate suras on earlier-than-the-current-orthodox Koran on fragments found in an old Yemeni mosque being refurbished, and the fact that Mohammad child “bride” recalled one cerse being eaten by a goat before it was enver enetered into the now-offical Koran, rendering the myth of the “perfect transmission of Allah;s words” a frace and a fraud, etc., etc.).
The war against the ideology hasn’t begun.
Because too few bother to learn it.
(And sometimes you have to carpetbomb if the ultimate gains outweigh the temporary rebounding costs.)
profitsbeard on August 12, 2007 at 2:08 AM
Typing too fast…
“verse” not “cerse”
“farce and fraud”
profitsbeard on August 12, 2007 at 2:10 AM
Its not so much religeon as much as it is “infallibility” of the cause
Japan became more aggressive because it went so long without a defeat. From the 12th century on Japan had a string of unbroken military victories. It all started with the attempted mongol invasion of Japan and when it failed.
Then Japan embarked on a frenzie of self killing in the Bushido era. They were later able to invade and conquere Korea. Then Came the Russo Japanese war and Their victories in WWI. This led the Japanese to believe that they were invincible.
The same thing is going on in Islam. The last time Mecca was threatened by a non Muslim force was during the Crusades in 12rh Century. That is why the Crusades resonate so greatly in Arabic Culture. It was the time their religeon faced the greatest threat to it.
The Crusaders got the closest any enemy ever got to Mecca. That is in their lore and in their belief system. Any hint of Crusade scares the crap out of them.
Since that time Islam has had no direct threat to it. They were part of the Ottoman empire but never really involved in WWI.
So its been almost 10 centuries since a direct threat to Islam has surfaced. They suspiciously veiw the Israeli state as a great threat to them. Hence the belief that they cant let the Jewish state to continue to exist. It is a direct threat to their beliefs and their veiw of invinicibility.
William Amos on August 12, 2007 at 2:22 AM
Yeah, a loaded word for sure, full of multiple meanings. Kind of like “jihad.” The word should be used often. Might save an American life or two.
JiangxiDad on August 12, 2007 at 8:00 AM
The al Qaeda and Taliban personnel abandoned the 28 camps after “the US had presented Islamabad with a dossier detailing the location of the bases as advance information on likely US targets,” Mr. Shahzad reported. “All other leading Taliban commanders, including Sirajuddin Haqqani, Gul Bahadur, Baitullah Mehsud and Haji Omar, have disappeared,” said Mr. Shahzad.
This is not a war. We are in a gang style street fight. Commonsense should prevail over rules of engagement. These countries are basically run as an on going criminal enterprise as compared with our standards. This was another missed opportunity as far as I am concerned.
sonnyspats1 on August 12, 2007 at 10:07 AM
Emphasis mine.
Now there’s a great nugget of understanding. Muslims have the human tendency to disregard things that make them uncomfortable and accepting things that reinforce what they already believe. Over the generations of this war we can/must affect how the Muslim ideology controls lives.
Not all Muslims believe the same things. Treating Islam as a single stereotype requires making war on over a billion people. Fortunately for us General Petraeus can see even small differences and knows how to drive wedges between groups to our advantage.
AQ beats people up for chilling water.
The Marines hand out cold water at meetings.
AQ cuts off two fingers to punish Muslims for smoking.
The Marines hand out cigarettes.
General Petgraeus has a good plan, it seems to be working. Seeing THE enemy as a single block leads to a simple single solution( See the Cheney thread). Recognizing that we have many enemies complicates our life and requires many different battles. But it will be a long war with many battles.
TunaTalon on August 12, 2007 at 10:26 AM
Excellent point, after all we didn’t begin to “win the hearts and minds” of the Japanese and Germans until after we had effectively destroyed their war-making capabilities as well as their ability to reconstitute their war machine and they had no choice but to unconditionally surrender.
Now carpet bombing is not the only answer, granted, and I agree it will take several avenues of thought and action to effectively win the GWOT and defeat our enemies, however, until we effectively stop our enemies ability to wage war and attack us it seems somewhat futile to provide schools, roads, public works, and civil services when our enemy continues (as they do now) to destroy all these good deeds and services we have provided in the hope of winning their hearts and minds.
So John while I agree we will not win the GWOT with only bullets and bombs I have to respectfully disagree with you on when it is appropriate to focus on the “winning hearts and minds” part of this war. In my humble opinion trying to “win hearts and minds” before we have defeated our enemies ability to wage war is placing the cart before the horse.
Stick first, olive branch second.
Liberty or Death on August 12, 2007 at 6:48 PM
I was in Banda Aceh about three weeks after the tsunami, and several times there and elsewhere in the following months. This statement could not be further from the truth.
There’s a lot to be said, in my experience, for the potential of winning hearts and minds. In this particular case, the incredible lies and vitriol which had been spread about the west and the U.S. in particular, and the fairly isolated nature of the Aceh provice played in our favor. They were really expecting depraved monsters.
The reality was that their Muslim brothers responded almost not at all to help them in their plight, and the west and Christian agencies came out in spades.
I had many people say to me, and it was a refrain repeated to other aid workers as well, “Nothing I was told about you is true.” They meant “you” both as Christians and westerners, a distinction they do not make.
The icing on the cake was a man who told me how wonderful it would be if only it was possible for Aceh to become a part of the U.S. And he didn’t have stars in his eyes. He was yearning for political change.
So, yeah, hearts and minds can be won. That was a [tragically sad] golden opportunity, and we weren’t at war with any jihadis in their midst. Nevertheless, the transformation I saw was pretty staggering.
TexasDan on August 12, 2007 at 8:11 PM
There you go Tunatalon and Capt. Sotz, keep winning hearts and minds and building those roads so they can ship this stuff in on nice new smooth pavement.
peacenprosperity on August 12, 2007 at 9:10 PM
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