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Militant Bibliophile very good point. The Spartans more than other Greeks actually DISCOURAGED sexual relationships within the army, because of moral reasons, and because they felt sexual relations should not get in the way of meritocracy.

Xenophon writes about this. Lycurgus, the legendary law-giver of Sparta, had very conservative views about sexuality and homosexual activity. People should understand the Greeks had a mixed feeling towards this, the love-education between men and young boys was considered good, any sexual relationship generally bad.

Nepotism was a big problem for the Spartans, with their ideals of merit based armed forces. If I remember correctly it was a major political issue with one of the kings and his favoritism towards his lover during the Peloponnesian war. I even read somewhere they didn’t put lovers in the same place in the Phalanx.

The Thebans come later than the Spartans with their gay fanatical sacred band.

A few more points:

1. The Spartans did lose the Persian wars, in the sense that the Athenians emerged as the victors and dominant power in Greece. This later led to the Peloponnesian war (that Sparta ultimately won, but that wore down both cities). Morally Spartas reputation was helped by the last stand of the 300.

2. Greeks did not practice homosexuality, men who only were with other men. They like other cultures had wide-spread bi-sexuality, where men occasionally have sex with other men, but also (and often preferably) with women.

Anyone who tells you homosexuality was the norm in Greece/Ottoman empire/Mamluks is demonstrating a shallow knowledge of history.

3. What annoys me most with Democrats is the combination of ignorance and arrogance. “Anyone who doesn’t know Spartans were gay is ignorant about ancient history”. Yeah, except anyone who actually read through a couple of books about Greek history would know it was much more complicated. A little knowledge is worse than no knowledge, if it makes you overestimate yourself.

4. The core of the issue: Regardless if the Thebans made it work, it was in a completely different culture. Democrat politicians should care about how things work given your American culture today. All fighting armies need the macho mentality of young men, especially an elite volunteer force such as the US Military. In America 2007 gay=not macho. End of story. People that risk their life for the rest of society are not toys for leftist social experiments, their wishes should be respected.

Tino on August 8, 2007 at 9:19 PM