Mitt: My military-age sons serve America by trying to get me elected; Update: Audio added
posted at 3:03 pm on August 8, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Oof. Either this came out wrong or he was caught surprisingly flat-footed by the question; as stated, it sounds awful. For the record, the answer to this question always is, “Not everyone was born with the courage and commitment to service displayed by the many thousands of left-wing bloggers who enlisted to fight in Afghanistan after 9/11.”
Incidentally, with Rudy and McCain sitting out the Ames straw poll, the only potentially serious competition for Mitt is … Ron Paul, who’s buying ads to try to make a game of it. Exit question: Do Paul’s left-leaning libertarian supporters know he’s not quite as left-leaning libertarian as they think he is?
Update: The Romney camp has posted the audio of the question and answer.
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Yeah, correcting you on LDS missionary work constitutes a threat, whereas working long hours and weekends at Bain Capital and Romney’s other employers makes him not among the “build your own empire” because Romney’s dad was rich.
Where does all this idiocy come from. How is it that you’ve fallen into the lefty class envy trap. Call it by another name, but you’ve basically said rich = no work ethic. Because Romney’s dad is rich, he cannot have the quality of the so-called humble hard working middle class type. Here’s news, work ethic isn’t an inborn trait of the middle class, there’s plenty of lazy ones too. The only difference between lazy middle class and lazy upper class is a trust fund.
Seriously right2bright, don’t be a Hollowpoint. Don’t engage in baseless hatred, envy, and spinning just for the purpose of doing so.
BKennedy on August 9, 2007 at 4:53 PM
Still waiting for that proof. As the LDS are expected to go on missions it was a natural path. You act like no LDS every went on a mission until the Vietnam war started. This shows your total ignorance of LDS life. The LDS to this day are still serving missions when they reach 19 years of age.
Your ignorant slavishness to this tack you have taken to attack Mitt! is clearly taking up a lot of energy. Why don’t you focus it on stuff that Mitt! has actually lied about? Like the “life long hunter” lie.
You have totally failed at skewering Mitt! on this draft dodging bit. You refuse to back up any of the writings of others that you have quoted. If you were correct on this issue, you’d be able to link to an authoritative source that proves the LDS church encourages their youth to go on missions to avoid the draft. You should also be able to find some authoritative source that proves a family can exert influence on the church to get their son assigned to the mission field of their choice.
And I am more than willing to discuss this stem cell issue you want to discuss. I have studied a lot about Mitt! and haven’t seen this accusation.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 5:09 PM
We have our best and brightest in Iraq and other places getting their butts shot off and this moron says this? What an idiot! He is not a conservative…if he were at least one of his sons would be proud to serve without him even asking!
sabbott on August 9, 2007 at 5:10 PM
Let’s see… his father came back from Vietnam anti-war, claiming to have been brainwashed. Mitt registered for the draft in 1965 (presumably when he turned 18) so the age thing doesn’t hold. He didn’t become eligible for the draft until 1970- after his 3 years of deferrments were up; that’s when he drew the high number. The timing of his deferrment for missionary work is suspect at best given that it came shortly after he started college.
I have plenty of reasons to oppose Mitt being the nominee, but getting out of the draft really isn’t one of them. However, it would be foolish to ignore the parallels that the media will draw between Bush and Mitt on this and other issues; he’d be labelled a “draft dodger” the entire campaign in the unlikely event he got the nomination.
Bush: Wealthy upbringing, son of a politically powerful man.
Mitt: See above.
Bush: Accused of using his status to avoid Vietnam service by joining the National Guard.
Mitt: Accused of using his status to avoid Vietnam service by going on a mission to France.
Bush: Supports an expanded federal role in education and health care.
Mitt: See above.
Bush: Said he would sign the “assault weapon” ban if it crossed his desk (though he knew it likely wouldn’t).
Mitt: Wants to reinstate the “assault weapon” ban.
Bush: Numerous donations from the big business community.
Mitt: See above.
Hollowpoint on August 9, 2007 at 5:11 PM
She has totally hitched her wagon to a falling star on this deal. She knows less than nothing about LDS life and her ignorant spewings betray that.
Mitts! dad knew nothing but poverty. Mitt was born into privilege. Misguided ignorant people like right2bright find it easier to accuse than she does to actually research the facts. Mitts! dad did not manage and manipulate the events in Mitts! life. The church sent Mitt! on a mission where it wanted to. Mitt! graduated from college on his own. Mitt! was a success in business on his own.
She’s jealous and blinded by bigotry.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 5:18 PM
I take it then, sabbott, that you are a conservative who has served, and base your conservative credentials on you or your family members serving.
The last time I heard this argument was from a left-wing professor. I wasn’t prepared for it at the time, so my answer wasn’t as polished. Anyway, isn’t it telling that the left ALWAYS goes back to Vietnam whenever they’re trying to guilt someone? Even though they were the card burners and the record destroyers? Why the hell do we let the left play “gotcha” with a draft that they opposed with violence and destruction? Its idiotic, and we’d all be better off if we didn’t throw the left any bones.
BKennedy on August 9, 2007 at 5:22 PM
You’re exactly right. The time between graduating high school and going on a mission varies according to birth date etc. Males are not sent until they are 19 giving them a couple of semesters for college etc. They then receive their mission call by letter. No one, not his Bishop, his stake president, nor his family knows where he has been called to serve until that letter arrives from Salt Lake City.
I don’t understand this throw crap against the wall stuff. Mitt! has plenty of history that he should be vigorously challenged on.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 5:28 PM
If anyone is interested in a seven parts series dissecting Mitts! life, the Boston Globe has it here. The registration takes less than a minute.
This is not an apologetic article and I haven’t read the whole thing. This is the series that told the story about Mitt! strapping the family dog to the roof of the station wagon.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 5:34 PM
So let me see if I follow you. This argument isn’t really important to you, you just want to bring it up in case MSM does later. Hm, okay. Well, I’m not going to be following MSM’s lead then, so that implies I shouldn’t follow yours now.
Great, then these are the ones we should hear. I mean I’m sympathic to the concerns re: 2nd amendment. Conjecture about his father bending rules covering missionary work for him? Not so much.
Spirit of 1776 on August 9, 2007 at 5:37 PM
That is a threat blockhead. You need to or what? Would be my answer to his face…as if he would say that to my face.
Your getting more stupid, where did I say anything about his work ethic. Point that out to me.
Those are your words stupid, don’t apply your standards to me.
This is what is so frustrating about people like you, you can’t comprehend. I would just as soon not have you respond then to spin tales and make words up.
What I am saying is his dad was well connected, are you denying that? And that he is from a wealthy influential family..are you denying that? I also insinuated, that if you have power and money you can influence people…are you denying that.
I repeat where did I post that Mitt is not a hard working man? I believe that he is, and you can come from a wealthy family and excel, most do. You don’t become governer without working hard. JFK was one, William Buckley is one, Bush is one, many examples, they just get a head start. All of them would admit that. If you think Mitt is trying to sell himself as a good ol boy, who pulled himself up by the bootstaps, you are a real fool.
He had a privileged life, great for him, he was destined to follow in his fathers footsteps. As every father wants his son to do. You don’t enter Stanford without being an excellent student, but going to Stanford and schools like that cost a lot of money. I think he is a fine candidate, he is just not the savior. Get it? He has baggage just like all of the other candidates. Get it? Being on a LDS mission does not give him a “don’t look into my past” moral card. Get it?
You were so quick to condemn Fred, but so hesitant to attack Mitt for the same reason. I am using the exact tactics that you and others used on Fred. Get it?
That is what I am pointing out. If Mitt is selected, fine, if he isn’t, at least I know why. You will still be bowing to him.
As I said…RushBaby caught on immediatly, you should stop and read the posts and learn.
right2bright on August 9, 2007 at 5:40 PM
If he makes a big splash in the first couple primaries, then maybe we’ll get to some substance.
Spirit of 1776 on August 9, 2007 at 5:43 PM
He lied, his peers died.
I already threw down the challenge. If I point out his descrepancies, than you will attack him like you attacked Fred?
If you won’t change for anything, it is useless to talk to you.
The difference between people like you and BKennedy and the rest of the posters, is that you have made up your mind and nothing will change it. You would be perfect people for a cult, you just latch on and follow.
right2bright on August 9, 2007 at 5:49 PM
Why on earth are people bugged out that his sons chose not to go into the military? And how come that is suppose to reflect on him? I call that pretty shallow and not affording the candidate what we afford other Americans, a choice.
My parents have not had control of me since I was 18….nor do I think they should have to bare the brunt of my choices after that either. Pretty ignorant.
Highrise on August 9, 2007 at 6:05 PM
In case they bring up??? You’re smarter than that- you know damn well they’d be relentless on it… and this time they’d have more ammo than they did against Bush. Ditto with Rudy, who’s effort to avoid the draft was far worse than Mitt’s.
Electability matters, and having the “draft dodger” ammo in their inventory doesn’t exactly help Mitt’s cause, does it? Can we at least agree that this will ruthlessly be used against him, and that his only defense- using his Mormonism- isn’t exactly going to endear him to elements of the Religious Right who don’t consider Mormons even to be Christian?
Again- were Mitt an electable conservative, I’d have no qualms about voting for a Mormon. I’ve got nothing against Mormons; they’re not the ones sawing off heads. However, there are plenty of people who would and do have reservations. Avoiding that fact doesn’t make it go away. Likewise there are plenty of people who will see Mitt as another son of priveledge who dodged the draft, fairly or not.
Me? I don’t like his political opportunism, changing positions at the drop of a hat. I don’t like that he governed a liberal state. I don’t like his support for big government health care, education… and yes, gun control. I just don’t trust him and don’t believe he’d govern as a federalist conservative.
Hollowpoint on August 9, 2007 at 6:06 PM
I lived in Utah for 6 months and know that it is considered pretty much a must for Mormons to go on a mission. Many do not want to, but they feel that it is their duty. Kind of like it used to be a couple of generations ago about going into the military. Actually going on a mission I would suspect generally speaking is “easier duty” than going in the Army or Marines, from what I saw of the Air Force anyway and to a lesser degree the Navy, it may be rougher than that, although probably not in France. It is subjective maybe, but I give Mitt mostly a pass.
On the other hand what Rudy did was not what many at all, in his church or outside his church did, pull strings to get a phony exemption for a “critical job” that very clearly was not. I do not give Rudy a pass.
That is my “take” anyway.
If it were to end up looking like Romney is being denied the nomination because he is Mormon, I am unlikely to vote Republican in 2008.
MB4 on August 9, 2007 at 6:07 PM
Lets all come together and agree anyway that the Republicans should probably not nominate Ted Nugent.
“Nugent dodged the draft during the Vietnam War. In an interview for the Detroit Free Press (July 15, 1990), Nugent described how he avoided the draft: He claims that 30 days before his Draft Board Physical, he stopped all forms of personal hygiene. The last ten days he ingested nothing but junk food and Pepsi, and a week before his physical he stopped using the bathroom altogether, virtually living inside pants caked with excrement and stained by his urine.”
MB4 on August 9, 2007 at 6:16 PM
It’s called advice. You are exposing yourself as an uniformed, misguided, ignorant, child.
Where is the threat? And I did say it to your face. You didn’t listen and now you have destroyed any credibility you had on the issue.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 6:22 PM
Ok, take the ‘in case’ out. “This argument isn’t really important to you, you just want to bring it up before MSM does later.” That’s fine. Electability and MSM spin is a concern. I’d still rather talk about substantial factors.
Spirit of 1776 on August 9, 2007 at 6:24 PM
lol, probably not, but boy he is fun to listen to.
Spirit of 1776 on August 9, 2007 at 6:25 PM
I want it out now. If Mitts! past wont get him past Hillary, I want to know now so I can eliminate him from consideration. On September 24th, a movie called “September Dawn” (which took place on September 11th, 1857) relates the involvement of the LDS church in the cold blooded murder of 120 men. women, and children. The fact that it took place on 9/11 and it was done by a group of religious zealots will cast a poor light of the LDS church and should start a real landslide of investigations of Mitt! and his personal history.
I welcome it.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 6:27 PM
Don’t threaten, that is the advice.
right2bright on August 9, 2007 at 6:33 PM
On teh intarweb? Blasphemy.
Hollowpoint on August 9, 2007 at 6:34 PM
I see your problem now. You no more study fred? than you have Mitt!. You don’t realize that all the criticisms of fred? are based in fact. You, because you are supporting a TV personality and not a real person, don’t bother studying freddie boys past. So you think all the criticisms are manufactured, so you do the same with Mitt!.
Clue for you……fred? is being properly vetted based on facts. Get educated and commit the facts to memory as the truth about fred? is just starting to be revealed and it ain’t gonna be pretty.
Another clue for you…..no amount of ignorant blathering on your part is going to change the fact that Mitt! is totally innocent of your baseless accusations. The facts don’t bear it out. Stick to the “life long hunter” lie. THAT was a lie and is provable.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 6:38 PM
What did I threaten you with?
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 6:39 PM
I never said you threatend me with…sheesh you guys can’t read. I said you threatened me.
Let me explain to your feeble minds.
If someone says…gets in your face and says “don’t come any closer” that is a threat, open ended but a threat.
If they say…”don’t come any closer or I will knock you on the side of the head with a baseball bat” that is a threat with action.
As I said, you said something that you would never say to another mans face.
Glad you figured me out, your like your friend Einstein (Bradky), you have it all figured out, and you never make a mistake…how fortunate that you are there to guide us, yeah a couple of real Einsteins. I am glad that you feel Mitt is “totally innocent” (thank God he doesn’t drive a red truck), I hope he doesn’t tell any more lies. The world is watching him now.
And you never heard of him getting in bed with Ted? Ted thinks pretty high of him, what an honor, being held to a Ted Kennedy standard.
right2bright on August 9, 2007 at 7:28 PM
Csdeven, are you a paid operative for the Romney campaign? I’m not trying to pick a fight. I’m really curious. If you are, it would certainly explain a lot. Among commenters at HotAir, you may just be the most vocal supporter of any candidate. Not only are you a really, really passionate Mitt supporter, you’re also the most venomous detractor of other candidates. “Little old you” has managed to almost single-handedly set a very confrontational tone here regarding the GOP candidates, and I’m wondering if you have a vested interest in that beyond just being excited about voting for Mitt in the primary.
aero on August 9, 2007 at 7:28 PM
hahaha, well let me explain this to your paranoid mind using your own example….
“don’t come any closer”….there is a snake behind that rock
“don’t come any closer”….I have a cold and I don’t want you to get it.
Is it sinking in?
Stop while you’re ahead…..you are beginning to look like a fool.
It was friendly advice. Get over yourself. And I have said that to someones face. If they choose to escalate it into a perceived threat, well, that’s their problem.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 8:18 PM
All this started with the fred? groupies putting an exclamation point after freds? name and claiming him the savior of the conservative movement while he isn’t even a candidate. This was amusing for the most part, but when they started telling me that fred? doesn’t act in his TV roles and all he does is show up and act as himself, well, the looniness had reached the point where I decided to counter it with outrageous rebuttals.
I invented the “?” after freds? name. I was ragging on fred? before it was fashionable. I decided to put the exclamation point after mitts! name. “little old me” always refers to the fred? supporters who accuse me of taking fred? threads off topic. They are the ones who take the discussion off topic when they attack “little old me” after I let loose with a scathing rebuke of that lying fake fred?.
Most people “get it”, but there are a few, like hollowpoint and right2bright who are certified batty fred? supporters (possibly even groupies) and when ever I criticize fred? they go batty like I just insulted them.
I have not made up my mind about anyone, but when I show tacit support for Mitt!, these groupies go crazy! I haven’t made up my mind and wont until just before primaries. I will vote for which ever rep candidate who polls the best against the dem nominee. (likely Hillary) If that means fred?, the lying fake, then so be it.
I don’t have much fear of that since I think there is an outside chance that he will purposely scuttle his campaign and drop out so he can put his non-campaign contributions into his PAC and then funnel it to his family members. He’s already done it once, I see no reason to not think there is a slight chance he will do it again.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 8:35 PM
To clarify….This was someone else’s idea, I stole it and use it every time.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 10:17 PM
It is times like this that I remember that John McCain’s son is in the Marines and that John McCain’s books on courage and character are terrific, and I wish he had not screwed himself up with Kennedy with respect to immigration and Feingold with respect to campaign finance.
Phil Byler on August 9, 2007 at 10:55 PM
Amen
right2bright on August 10, 2007 at 12:56 AM
Hey stupid. Show me where I am a solid Fred supporter…Show me where I am encourging anyone to vote for Fred. I’ll say it again, for about the fourth time, maybe you will get it this time. I don’t care who is selected, the process will take place, but I do care when some pundit wannabe throws out a bunch of lies and copies MediaMatters to post on HA. I call you on it, and you don’t like it…so you throw out stupid lies to support your claim.
That’s the second time you are passing out lies about me. Just because I pick on your Mitty, you throw a hissy fit and start throwing out more lies. To bad your not man enough to own up to your lies.
It’s bad enough that you can’t understand what people write. You shouldn’t post on here until you can learn to be honest and apologize for lying.
Like I said twice before, if you had the intellect of other posters like RushBaby, you would have understood my point. He got it in one sentence. You haven’t understood it in two days. Duuuuh!! How’s it feel to have your chain jerked? Get it now???
Csdeven gets it in 5…4…3…2…uh, what comes next?
right2bright on August 10, 2007 at 1:17 AM
Yeah, riiiight.
csdeven on August 10, 2007 at 6:47 AM
Uh-oh, sounds like an internet tough guy approaches!
jambus59 on August 10, 2007 at 10:16 AM
You must be new around here. How else do you reply to a consistent liar? You can sit back and take it, I don’t.
Now you want to get in on his action? When did I post a lie? What did I say to you? Why are you even commenting on this? Do you always stick your nose into someone elses business? Do you really want to support that guy?
Have you read my posts for the past year? You would know there were two people I had a real problem with, both liars.
A gal named honara or honora, a rabid liar and person who spent time hijacking threads, and this guy, her twin brother. She was banned…
So you challenge me, and you are hiding behind a keyboard. Kettle=Black.
jambus59, thinks it is okay to slander and lie about a person, this isn’t what HA is about. Find another thread to post on. Others will accept liars and their supporters.
right2bright on August 10, 2007 at 11:57 AM
From your link:
Where Internet asshole is defined as: people who make Internets suck for everyone.
RushBaby on August 10, 2007 at 12:13 PM
No I was just making fun of the way you make THE INTERNETS SERIOUS BUSINESS
jambus59 on August 10, 2007 at 3:28 PM
Since you are not here for serious business, why don’t you just buzz off?
*flick*
RushBaby on August 10, 2007 at 4:49 PM
*blushing* aww schmoopy so good to know that you are thinking about me so often. E=MC2
Bradky on August 10, 2007 at 6:08 PM
:: I wish to interrupt this slap fight with a special announcement! ::
I desperately hope one of those clueless leftist “journalists” tries this gotcha! ambush with Duncan Hunter.
:: I now return you to your regularly-scheduled flame war ::
Spiny Norman on August 10, 2007 at 6:48 PM
You still have a few cheetos on your chin…
jambus59 on August 10, 2007 at 6:49 PM
Mitt, your pro-family, pro-life GOP candidate, is in favor of buying and selling embryos. Human life is a commodity for the marketplace. Study this guy closely. He is not to be trusted with America’s health care business or Supreme Court appointees. He never met a human embryo he would sell “for research.”
saved on August 11, 2007 at 8:45 AM
If Mitt! loses the straw poll, it’ll be clear that he doesn’t have the support he needs. Of that there is no doubt, but I wonder how the Mitt! hating fred? groupies will react if Mitt! wins the Ames straw poll?
Will they claim that fred? wasn’t there so it doesn’t count?
Will they claim that Mitt! bought it off?
Will they scream that it don’t matter because the winner isn’t always the nominee?
Just how will they minimize the results?
Enquiring minds want to know!
csdeven on August 11, 2007 at 1:25 PM
And I am more than willing to discuss this **stem cell issue you want to discuss. I have studied a lot about Mitt! and haven’t seen this accusation.
csdeven on August 9, 2007 at 5:09 PM
Mitt Romney’s official opinion on stem cells
Mcguyver on August 11, 2007 at 7:34 PM
Would someone here try to mislead the group with baseless accusations?
Naw, say it ain’t so!
Thanks for the link.
csdeven on August 11, 2007 at 8:11 PM
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