Face the truth man, our history is and always has been one of expansion of the Union. That expansion has always been a positive and beneficial thing to everyone involved.

Unlike the blame America first crowd who see every aspect of America as a triumph of evil, I personally see that United States as the greatest force for good currently on the face of the earth.

Every single time we have expanded our Union the effects have been profoundly good and beneficial to every one involved and I do not see that changing any time soon.

I’m not quite sure why you’re praising the NAU to me. Obviously, I think it would benefit big business only. But our expansion has always involved expansion of Europeans into the different parts of America. When we took over the American southwest, the Mexicans were bought out or kicked out. There has never been the current multi-cult that we have now. We’ve hitherto been an ethnically homogeneous mixture of Europeans, with a 10% black population that still sees itself in terms of its race. Until 60 years ago, white people saw themselves the same way. Its a perfectly natural thing. The human brain recognizes faces that bear a familial resemblance and humans congregate with those that look to the same. Or, “Birds of a feather flock together.” I am glad you have a small outpost of racial cooperation there in Ramona, but such is not to be found in most places in California where large portions of Mexicans are to be found. I couldn’t survive in East LA, parts of Oakland, Salinas, or anywhere else where they are dominant. I couldn’t send my kids to their schools as they would be picked-on. I can’t think of a single Mexican neighborhood I’d like to move to. I’m not really saying anything that you probably don’t already instinctively know, you’re just in denial. That’s your prerogative. I’d prefer if you didn’t lecture me about my views, because I don’t agree and I don’t see them as wrong. And I have a lot of hard statistics on my side.

When I am not specifically referring to citizens of Mexico I do not call them Mexicans, I call them Aldo, or Eddie, or Loretta or sometimes when discussing Latinos that I do not personally know I refer to them as Hispanic’s or Latinos.

Raaacist.

When I refer to “The Mexican People” I am very specifically referring to the citizens of the nation of Mexico.

Funny. Mexico’s official policy is that it is a ‘mestizo nation.’ In actually, it is highly stratified by race. The poorest Indians and Mestizos come here. The rest stay. It is funny how quick you are to wield the racist brand, however. Whites who want to make themselves look better than other whites often do this.

If you view them positively as a race or people (as they view themselves), you’re still practicing racism.

I don’t view “them” positively or negatively, I see individuals some whom I know and many others whom I do not know. My judgments are not based on sterile statistics but upon interactions with very distinct individuals.

Ok, but you’ve still defined them as ‘the Mexican people.’ I have as well, as have they. I view them differently than you. ?

Mexican is a nationality not an ethnicity, you do know that right? When I refer to “The Mexican People” I am very specifically referring to the citizens of the nation of Mexico. When I am not specifically referring to citizens of Mexico I do not call them Mexicans, I call them Aldo, or Eddie, or Loretta or sometimes when discussing Latinos that I do not personally know I refer to them as Hispanic’s or Latinos.

That doesn’t make me any more racist than you, does it

You just don’t get it do you? It’s how you view “them” that makes you a racist, and yes it does. As I said I do not view “them” in either the positive or negative but as individuals whom I either do or do not know. Nor do I place any stereotypical aspersions upon them.

As a sovereign nation we need to know to know the who, what, where, when, and why of any citizen of another sovereign nation that is within the borders of our nation. This goes far beyond the predicates of basic national security right down to the safety and security of the individual citizen.

America is a nation of immigrants and I for one have no problem with legal immigration regardless of the number of immigrants of any specific ethnic group. I couldn’t give a damn if 50 million Mexican citizen decided to immigrate here legally and become American citizens. All I want of them is for them to do it legally and follow our laws.

I am not afraid of a North American Union for the very simple reason that I do not believe for one single second that the American people would abandon our constitution or bill of right in order to achieve a North American Union.

Because of my trust in my fellow citizens, my belief in our entrepreneurial spirit, our adventurous spirit and our work ethic I cannot see how a North American Union would be anything other than another opportunity that we would seize with great gusto whist displaying to the entire world just how great this great republic really is.

The inclusion into the Union of the Louisiana purchase didn’t spell the end of the United States, nor did Texas’s entry or the purchase of the South West territory or Alaska.

As the United States has grown over the last 200 years the addition of more states into the Union has never brought about any of the fears that those objecting to a North American Union are screaming about.

Face the truth man, our history is and always has been one of expansion of the Union. That expansion has always been a positive and beneficial thing to everyone involved.

Unlike the blame America first crowd who see every aspect of America as a triumph of evil, I personally see that United States as the greatest force for good currently on the face of the earth.

Every single time we have expanded our Union the effects have been profoundly good and beneficial to every one involved and I do not see that changing any time soon.

Funny, thats how racists always defend their condescending arrogant dehumanization of those they consider less than themselves. Yes, I have seen your “FACTS” and know them for the distortions of reality that they are.

The site you gave me presented the same facts you did. The CDC has also listed an illegitimacy rate of 60% for Hispanics. The IQ scores come from ‘IQ and the Wealth of Nations.’ You can find it on Amazon. Give yourself a big pat on the back though. If you view them positively as a race or people (as they view themselves), you’re still practicing racism. You’re just viewing them positively as you said here:

Further more the fact that I don’t see the Mexican people in a negative or hateful light doesn’t mean I am an open borders socialist.

Ok, but you’ve still defined them as ‘the Mexican people.’ I have as well, as have they. I view them differently than you. That doesn’t make me any more racist than you, does it?

When I bring up a few uncomfortable facts about them,

Funny, thats how racists always defend their condescending arrogant dehumanization of those they consider less than themselves. Yes, I have seen your “FACTS” and know them for the distortions of reality that they are.

I am no illegal immigration advocate, make no mistake about that. I believe in securing our borders strongly enough to have e-mailed faxed and called my senators multiple times a day during the shamnesty debacle.

I work with and know a substantial number of individuals of Hispanic decent and know from these personal relationships that you are casting unwarranted aspersions upon their character.

The statistics of their population do. not. lie.

Statistics don’t lie, thats the job of those quoting statistics to prove their agenda to be true, regardless of what the facts might be.

Minorities have higher incarceration rates, lower SAT scores, lower graduation rate, and higher illegitimacy rates than the non-white majority. This suggest a problem not with the minorities but with our culture.

You’re welcome to view them however you want

If you cant be the blatant racism in this statement then I just don’t know what to say to you.

I find it highly disturbing that individuals here would so quickly resort to dKos like behavior in attacking anyone who suggests any idea that they disagree with.

I idea that I would trust the American people to make a rational decision regarding whether or not to join a North American Union and that I do not see such a Union as a threat to our constitution or bill of rights does not make me a money grubbing narcistic traitor.

You revile dKos-like behavior but immediately resort to the same tactics when presented with uncomfortable facts about the ‘newcomers’ in our society that, as recently as a few months ago, race-rioted in a downtown park in Los Angeles for their ‘rights’ and failed to disperse when ordered. A year ago, they took down the American flag and replaced it with the Mexican flag in numerous places in the state. When I bring up a few uncomfortable facts about them, your reply is immediately, “Racism!”

I am glad that you have such a great experience with them in San Diego. By 13 year-old brother-in-law hasn’t with the ones at his school, neither have my other in-laws who’ve been displaced in the construction industry by cheap Mexican labor.

Further more the fact that I don’t see the Mexican people in a negative or hateful light doesn’t mean I am an open borders socialist.

You’re welcome to view them however you want. The statistics of their population do. not. lie.

My guess is that you live in Del Mar or Carmel Valley, drive a Mercedes or BMW like all of the other ‘new rich’ in that area, and care little about anything other than yourself and your money.

You don’t guess very well. I live in Ramona (thats 35 miles east of San Diego out in the rural agricultural countryside), Drive a 1984 Corvette earn $12.00 an hour and work a 50 hour week. I bust my ass for what I have, my company doesn’t hire Illegals and the bull$hit that all I care about is money is well just plain pathetic.

The people at my work are a wide mixture of ethnicities with less than 1/4 of them being of Mexican/Hispanic decent, all of whom are legal US citizens. We employee over 300 people and every single one of them is committed to making the best possible product for our customers.

Toro is a damn fine company and we are 100 percent committed to America and seeing that America remains the greatest nation on the face of the earth. The facility I work for makes as a facility at the request of the employees donations to the Wounded Warrior Foundation on a quarterly basis.

Every year we take up donations to purchase Christmas presents for the families of personal serving in Iraq. These donations come out of the pockets of the employees, not from the corporate account. And yes I take an active part in these programs.

I find it highly disturbing that individuals here would so quickly resort to dKos like behavior in attacking anyone who suggests any idea that they disagree with.

I idea that I would trust the American people to make a rational decision regarding whether or not to join a North American Union and that I do not see such a Union as a threat to our constitution or bill of rights does not make me a money grubbing narcistic traitor.

The fact that I do not see shadow governments, tri-lateral commission or space alien overlord plotting the destruction of the US Constitution does not mean I am blind.

Further more the fact that I don’t see the Mexican people in a negative or hateful light doesn’t mean I am an open borders socialist.

37 years, and Dude, you are really starting to sound like a racist.

doriangrey on August 9, 2007 at 10:09 AM

Here it comes. Fine, look up the statistics on their incarceration rates, SAT scores, graduation rate, and illegitimacy rate yourself. While you’re at it, look up the terms ‘La Raza,’ ‘brown pride’, and head over to the MEChA website. Spend a little time familiarizing yourself with ‘The Plan of Aztlan.’

Given that you’ve lived here 37 years, you’re old enough to see your business profit from illegal labor, but not old enough to care what it’s done to your children and their future in this country, or you have enough money to insulate them from the problem. My guess is that you live in Del Mar or Carmel Valley, drive a Mercedes or BMW like all of the other ‘new rich’ in that area, and care little about anything other than yourself and your money.

Keep in mind, we broke all these records in the middle of a war.

The majority of Journalists do not have any background in economics, so that is whey they are all so “surprised” to see how resilient our economy is to natural disasters like Katrina, Bear markets, or the recent credit crunch. Journalists report a one-day 300 point loss in the DJIA like it’s armageddon. But when the Dow hit 14,000 the coverage was indifferent.

Let’s play it out.

1)Who is the willing buyer? I believe the U.S. doesn’t have to pay its obligation until maturity, so we are only obligated to pay interest as it comes due. So, the Chinese would have to find a willing buyer, but…

2)To perform such a sell-off, I think the Chinese would have to offer a discount, which would have a precipitous effect on their total return. I doubt their advisers are even suggesting such a tactic. Here’s why:

3)The sell-off would have a drastic effect, shrinking the money supply, tightening credit and cause the dollar to fall. Another result is spiking bond yields, which would have an inverse effect on bond, as well as stock prices. Certainly there’d be a recession, but it’s a boomerang effect. We will buy less of their exports as a result of the falling dollar against the rising Yuan. Since the U.S. economy makes up about 1/3 of the world economy, the ripple effect would be felt throughout the world. That’s like spitting in the wind, or tugging on Superman’s cape!!

Nice job turning HA into dKos their MaC…

PRCalDude on August 8, 2007 at 7:32 PM

How long have you lived here?

37 years, and Dude, you are really starting to sound like a racist.

(Mcguyver on August 8, 2007 at 11:37 AM
you better read the Book titled: Shut Up and Sing, By Laura Ingraham)

And that applies to me how?

(I am always happy when your types expose themselves on HA)

**So exactly what would my type be there Einstein?

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 11:53 AM

*** The type that falls for my trap of sucking you into your

own self-inflated, Einsteinian ego driven, parts

inspector-Napoleon super human, downward spiraling,

self-negating, self minimizing trip — exposing you for your

really true innermost biased perspectives, that created for

us here at HA a truly remarkable and rare viewing of

priceless comedy that will go into such rare archives of our

foremost valued Troll files, which enables us to quit

wasting our time viewing and commenting or

quoting you which allows us to sleep better at

night and gives us more energy from the rush of dopamine

that’s released from laughing our asses off over you trying

get us to respond to your future posts, and knowing you will

continue to try to amuse us provides us more laughter which

as you obviously can tell (with your smart brain) will be

the gift that keeps on giving, So cheers!!!!!

As I understand it, “trade deficit” = the net transfer of wealth from one nation to another.

Then you don’t understand it.

All I see is someone afraid of change. I wonder what the US would look like today if everyone in the US in 1800 had been as afraid as you are.
doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 6:16 PM

LOL! What a card! I wondered where I was going to get my entertainment tonight.

The people that came here in the 1800’s came without taxpayer “safety nets”. They either made it on their own or they didn’t make it. Half the people that came here in the last part of the 1800’s went back to their country of origin.

I don’t mind anyone coming here legally. I just don’t want to pay for them.

What are they doing for us?

PRCalDude on August 8, 2007 at 7:32 PM

1.) Providing more votes for the Democrats, causing California to eventually become an entrenched one- political party, left wing state, just like here in the People’s Republic of Illinois.

2.) Providing more reasons why rewarding illegal aliens with the gift of USA citizenship 7 times since 1986 is really a very bad idea.

3.) Providing more reasons why domestic policies (”open borders”) that encourage socialism have negative results.

I inspect parts manufactured in Mexico and assembled into products here in San Diego California.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM

How long have you lived here? California is now almost as segregated as South Africa under apartheid. The Mexicans aren’t upwardly mobile, they have a high incarceration rate, low educational achievement, and high illegitimacy rates. We now have international drug gangs and a population that doesn’t want to be American. What possible benefit are these ‘newcomers’ providing to our country?

Growing up, I used to see Americans in the construction and highway industries. Now all I see is Mexicans who are overly self-congratulatory about their work ethic, (they constantly remind white people of how lazy they are), and how this land used to be a part of Mexico. They speak their own language. They live in their own barrios. We now have a Latino political machine in Los Angeles with a corrupt mayor, DA, and state senator. We have 10 closed ERs in Los Angeles county alone. What are they doing for us?

Oh and please feel free to continue to comment, dont worry if I dont respond for a while I have to go drink some Corona’s, you know how it is, gotta betray my country and all that…right???

Yea, right…If you were any smarter Einstein would be asking you to do his homework. Oh wait my bad, apparently according to PRCalDude the average Mexican IQ is 5 full standard deviation points higher than yours, so I guess Einstein wont be asking you for any help after all.

All I see is someone afraid of change.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 6:16 PM

Yep. That’s it exactly. We’re all just cowards. You’re simply a brave hero, rather than a money hungry fraud willing to sell out his country for personal gain.

Hey, I’ve got an idea! Why don’t you volunteer to go work at one of those fantastic new businesses in Mexico, for the same middle class wage that they’re making over there. You ought to do quite well, being that you understand the place so much better than the rest of us.

Sorry but I just don’t understand this whole North American Union paranoia. There was a point in time when the United States comprised of only thirteen states, then it grew to 24, then to 35 and eventually 50. Think about it realistically, the US economy is 6 times the combined size of Canada and Mexico and has 3 times the population of Canada and Mexico.

The United States would simply swallow Canada and Mexico whole without even burping. In other words the United states would go from having 50 states to having 75 or 80, plus it would solve the illegal immigration issue with Mexico while giving the United States complete and unrestricted access to Canada and Mexico’s natural resources. Basically a win – win situation for everyone involved.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 9:58 AM

We’d be absorbing a population with a mean IQ of 87 – about 1 SD below ours. It would form a permanent underclass in our society as it has already done in CA. They are 3 times more likely to end up in jail and have an illegitimacy rate of roughly 60%. Not the profile of a people I want in my country.

All I see is someone afraid of change. I wonder what the US would look like today if everyone in the US in 1800 had been as afraid as you are.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 6:16 PM

Change is not always for the better, ask the pre-Bolshevik Russians… if you can find any.

All I see is someone afraid of change. I wonder what the US would look like today if everyone in the US in 1800 had been as afraid as you are.

NAFTA is equally HATED by both liberals and conservatives.
Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 3:52 PM

…and Ron Paul will win in a landslide. We KNOW already, give it a rest.

Not to quibble but the first ten amendments (The Bill of Rights) were all done at once, so that would have been modification number one. And yes, seventeen times since then, but hardly without consequence to our freedoms.

You have the disastrous 16th amendment which brought us the income tax, (oh joy) which is in direct conflict with Article 1, Section 2, clause 3 of the original Constitution, real bad consequences. Then you have the nutty 18th amendment that made it impossible to get a drink (legally). Thank goodness the 21st amendment came along and repealed the 18th. And of course much has been written about the disasters effects of the 14th amendment, whether intentional or not. And to think we made all of those mistakes without having to deal with or include the wishes of two foreign governments.

Re-negotiating the Constitution with socialist Canada and wildly corrupt Mexico, oh boy, what a roll of the dice that would be. I figure the odds of our Bill of Rights coming out in tact would be about 1 in 50, and that’s being conservative.

And actually I use dihydrogen monoxide to make coffee and I’m against the proposed ban.

You do realize that the US Constitution has been modified 27 times already without the Bill of Rights suffering right?

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:59 PM

Let’s modify the US Constitution so that doriangrey can have job security! Let me guess! You probably own stock in your company too, right? D@mn Constitution is putting an unfair burden on doriangrey and his poor family. If only we can open up the borders and get those Mexican trucks moving smoothly … doriangrey can make his fortune and live happily ever after.