China threatens huge dollar selloff

posted at 9:38 am on August 8, 2007 by Bryan

I’m not an economist, so I’ll put the question to those in our audience who are: Is this threat as bad as the Telegraph is making it sound?

The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.

Two officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning – for the first time – that Beijing may use its $1.33 trillion (£658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress. Shifts in Chinese policy are often announced through key think tanks and academies.

Described as China’s “nuclear option” in the state media, such action could trigger a dollar crash at a time when the US currency is already breaking down through historic support levels.

It would also cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession. It is estimated that China holds over $900bn in a mix of US bonds.

Xia Bin, finance chief at the Development Research Centre (which has cabinet rank), kicked off what now appears to be government policy with a comment last week that Beijing’s foreign reserves should be used as a “bargaining chip” in talks with the US.

This part caught my eye:

Simon Derrick, a currency strategist at the Bank of New York Mellon, said the comments were a message to the US Senate as Capitol Hill prepares legislation for the Autumn session.

“The words are alarming and unambiguous. This carries a clear political threat and could have very serious consequences at a time when the credit markets are already afraid of contagion from the subprime troubles,” he said.

And don’t forget that we’re financing civilization’s war on Islamic terrorism pretty much by ourselves, and at great expense. If the Chinese were to make good on the dollar selloff threat and our economy goes into a serious tailspin, that would hinder our ability to wage that war. That may be the purpose of such an economic attack on us: To see us hobbled, then defeated, then as much of a superpower as the French.

So again, I’ll put the question out to experts who happen across this post: How big a worry is this? If it’s as big a worry as it seems, China is evidently prepared to use this moment in time to wage a serious attack on us at a point of serious vulnerability, or at least threaten to do so. Can we counter it, and with what?


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That’s why NAFTA was one of the very few truly bipartisan issues in recent history: Republicans liked it because it’s free trade; and Democrats liked it because it’s protectionism. Everybody wins.

logis on August 8, 2007 at 3:43 PM

Um …

NAFTA is equally HATED by both liberals and conservatives.

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 3:52 PM

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 2:54 PM

The fear is strong with you young Padawan…

Um. I guess you don’t see a difference between having 20 million illegals, and adding over 100 million people currently living below poverty levels?

That is a utterly pathetic and disgusting racist suggestion, the very notion that the entire Mexican population is just dying to get on American welfare is absurd to the point of nausea. In the first place Mexico only has a population of 100 million and of that 100 million over 63 % of the population are middle class or better. This may actually come as a shock to you but not every Mexican wants to immigrate legally or illegally to the US.

Who’s going to build all of the new hospitals which are going to be required to provide free medical care to 100 million new Americans? Where’s that money going to come from?

Let me guess, you actually think there are no hospitals or doctors in Mexico now? Please that is utterly pathetic.

Really? So, with a touch of a wand, we’re just going to suddenly raise the minimum wage in Mexico to the levels here in the U.S., and like magic … Mexicans in Mexico would suddenly be earning wages equal to U.S. workers? Where are these jobs going to come from? Where are the employers going to come from? And IF there should suddenly be a boom in new businesses to actually HIRE these workers in Mexico … where are the customers going to come from? Mexico?

No, no magic wands, and as for suddenly raising the minimum wage, you mean kind of like we just did here with the federal minimum wage? Hmmm, where will those jobs come from, how about American corporations that suddenly find it far more attractive to do business in Mexico than in oh say CHINA or India or any other country that they are currently outsourcing to? As for the customers, do I really need to explain that to you? The customers already exist, currently they are buying their products from places like China and India. The creation of a NAU would dramatically change that.

Are American business owners going to suddenly run to Mexico and spend billions up front to open retail malls, so all these new workers can spend their new Ameros?

Well, thats a pretty damn stupid question isn’t it. American corporations are already spending billions and billions of dollars doing exactly that, but I guess your son, his mother, and her entire family didn’t bother to tell you that did they. The company I work for has spend 5 billion dollars all by them selves in Mexico in the last 5 years. And they are planning on spending another 5 billion, thats right billion with a capitol “B” in the next 5 years. Whats more, The Toro Corporation (Listed as TTC on the NYSE) isnt even remotely close to being the only major American corporation currently engaged in doing this.

Maybe that little McDonald Taco stand owner in Encenada will now be able to start paying $12 an hour. Or, is it more likely that part of the back-room dealing involved in the any merger would rule the minimum wage exempt in Mexico, causing even more American businesses to relocate, instead having the opposite effect and causing American wages to fall to record lows?

Again what utterly disingenuous bull$hit. First off no McDonald’s pays $12 an hour to anyone other than management so that is an utterly dishonest canard. And secondly since when has the minimum wage in California had even the slightest impact on the minimum wage in Arkansas? Oh yea thats right it doesn’t.

While the federal minimum wage is exactly the same in both California and Arkansas, the state minimum wages are not, California has a higher minimum wage than Arkansas economy hasn’t collapsed, everyone in Arkansas hasn’t moved to California.

Of course, these American businesses in their desire to obtain the lowest possible costs of doing business, will pay under-the-table “fees” to the same corrupt Mexican officials, thereby making them even richer.

Yea, I can just see the NAU federal government letting them get away with that…NOT. There is a reason that that doesn’t happen all that often in Canada or the United States and those corrupt public officials in Mexico would discover with a rude shock what that is.

Or, do you think the U.S. is going to send Team America in to monitor the entire situation? Maybe some U.N. officials? You know? Just to make sure everything is legit and to prevent corruption? I’m sure it will be easy to clean it all up.

Hmmm, I’m guessing that you don’t know the difference between State judiciary and Federal judiciary. Thats OK Al Capone and his buddies didn’t understand the difference either and look where it got them.

You conveniently blind yourself to the big picture. You ignore the total corruption of the Mexican government and law enforcement. Will the North American Union magically clean out all of this corruption? Will the U.S. write a nasty little letter telling them that they’re all going to have to start being honest? What do you think would happen if the U.S. were to go in and attempt to clean out all the drug cartels? Do you think the cartels would just close up business and open up yogurt shops? How many people would die in the inevitable war that would take place between these new “honest governments” and the cartels?

Hmmm, you remember that Rodney King dude, remember the riots that broke out after the cops that arrested and beat him were acquitted? Remember how California restored order? Yea, think about that one for a couple of minutes.

You also ignore the fact that the Canadian people want nothing to do with a merger. But I guess the people of Canada are too stupid to know what’s good for them? Maybe you think they’ll all be happy and thank us later.

You also ignore the fact that the American people want nothing to do with a merger. But again, we’re probably just too stupid to know what’s good for us. We’ll thank them later.

Again I am not ignoring anything…

It matters not one single bit how much elected officials, unelected officials, members of super seckret shadow governments or even space alien overlords push for the NAU, it will never happen unless the citizens first and foremost of the United states and then Mexico and Canada as well vote to allow it to happen.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 2:31 PM

And that whole Constitution thing is over-rated anyway, right?

Seriously you need to put the crack pipe down and back slowly…er no make that run away from it as fast as you can. Your arguments are from a stunning and disturbing prejudice and lack of information. You may well have married a of Mexican , hell you might even be Mexican decent in other words Hispanic but you still have an enormous number of false stereotypical beliefs regarding Mexicans.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:14 PM

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 3:52 PM

I like NAFTA. I am a conservative. Therefore, some conservatives like NAFTA.

This syllogism was brought to you by the letter B.

There is a point where justified worry about a financial system propped up by leverage becomes a hysterical fear of phantom organizations.

Bill C on August 8, 2007 at 4:16 PM

logis on August 8, 2007 at 3:43 PM

But this “brilliant” idea to abolish the United States Constitution that the liberaltarians keep preaching? I’m pretty sure only the Alien Overlords are on board with that plan.

For god’s sake will somebody please tell me where the imbecilic notion that a North American Union would somehow abolish the US Constitution came from? Is this another Alex Jones tin foil hat theory?

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:18 PM

Bill C on August 8, 2007 at 4:16 PM

I like NAFTA as well, my job exists because of NAFTA, I’m a Quality Control Inspector, I inspect parts manufactured in Mexico and assembled into products here in San Diego California.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM

Anyway, back to China.

Ropera on August 8, 2007 at 10:36 AM

I want you as my nurse.

right2bright on August 8, 2007 at 4:32 PM

For god’s sake will somebody please tell me where the imbecilic notion that a North American Union would somehow abolish the US Constitution came from? Is this another Alex Jones tin foil hat theory?

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:18 PM

You said it yourself below doriangry.

if it should happen it will happen under our (as in we the people) terms. As I said before, the constitutions of Mexico and Canada are very similar to the US Constitution, a modified combination of all three constitutions would not make our constitution less protective of individual citizens rights than it already is.

You think we would come out with the Bill of Rights in tact, I seriously doubt that. Say I’m in a state of conspiratorial paranoia if you like, I think you are a bit too trusting.

Maxx on August 8, 2007 at 4:33 PM

Maxx on August 8, 2007 at 4:33 PM

You said it yourself below doriangry.

if it should happen it will happen under our (as in we the people) terms. As I said before, the constitutions of Mexico and Canada are very similar to the US Constitution, a modified combination of all three constitutions would not make our constitution less protective of individual citizens rights than it already is.

You do realize that the US Constitution has been modified 27 times already without the Bill of Rights suffering right? The assumption that further modifications to the constitution will somehow result in damages to the constitution really is conspiratorial paranoia. BTW while we are on the subject of conspiratorial paranoia have you signed the petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide yet?

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:59 PM

Even if China tried to dump them on the market it would be in the interest of all other holders (the EU in particular) to buy them to stop the drop, since they already have a perceived pricing disadvantage making their exports to us expensive. A dollar drop would make it even worse from their perspective and it would be in their interest to stabilize the drop.

CommentGuy on August 8, 2007 at 5:39 PM

That is a utterly pathetic and disgusting racist suggestion, the very notion that the entire Mexican population is just dying to get on American welfare is absurd to the point of nausea. In the first place Mexico only has a population of 100 million and of that 100 million over 63 % of the population are middle class or better. This may actually come as a shock to you but not every Mexican wants to immigrate legally or illegally to the US.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:14 PM

LOL! The obligatory racist accusation didn’t take long. Is your argument that weak? Yes, it is.

First of all, you just admitted that 37% of the Mexican population is below the poverty level. Way to prove your point.

Second, you’re stat is meaningless, being that “middle class” in Mexico is not the same thing as being “middle class” in the United States.

Here are the facts:

The average Mexican household earns $7,297 a year in wages, according to the government.

But because 39 percent of Mexico’s wealth is concentrated in 10 percent of the population, most people actually earn less than the national average. In fact, 82 percent of Mexicans earn less than $21 per workday.

And so much for the “lower cost of living” argument …

Welcome to a typical life in Mexico: a world of long hours, low pay and prices that are much higher than in the United States.

Now compare that to the middle class in the United States.

Are you just making stuff up as you go along?

Let me guess, you actually think there are no hospitals or doctors in Mexico now? Please that is utterly pathetic.

Did I say “in Mexico?” No, I didn’t.

No, no magic wands, and as for suddenly raising the minimum wage, you mean kind of like we just did here with the federal minimum wage?

So, you’re saying that a wage increase from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour is “kind of like” a wage increase from $21 per day to $7.25 per hour?

Hmmm, where will those jobs come from, how about American corporations that suddenly find it far more attractive to do business in Mexico than in oh say CHINA or India or any other country that they are currently outsourcing to?

Yes, I mentioned those corporations, in case you simply over-looked it rather than ignored it. Remember? Here’s what I wrote:

Or, is it more likely that part of the back-room dealing involved in the any merger would rule the minimum wage exempt in Mexico, causing even more American businesses to relocate, instead having the opposite effect and causing American wages to fall to record lows?

As for the customers, do I really need to explain that to you? The customers already exist, currently they are buying their products from places like China and India.

Mexican citizens are buying their products from China and India? Wow. I didn’t know that. Is that where the $21 per day is going?

American corporations are already spending billions and billions of dollars doing exactly that

You really need to put more effort into reading comprehension. The key part of my question was the second part of that line, which read …
“to open retail malls.”

I don’t believe any American corporations are currently opening any “retail malls” in Mexico are they? The corporations you are referring to are manufacturing corporations, telephone service centers, and other divisions which are only interested in low cost workers. But you know that, right? Can you name any American corporations currently building retail centers in Mexico because of the booming profits in sales?

Again what utterly disingenuous bull$hit. First off no McDonald’s pays $12 an hour to anyone other than management so that is an utterly dishonest canard.

You continue to embarrass yourself. The “McDonald’s Taco Stand” happens to be an actual business operating on a corner in Encenada, Mexico. But that’s just another bit of reality you’re not aware of, isn’t it? Have you ever been to Mexico, other than luxurious tourist locations? Do you have any real world experience, outside your grandmother’s basement?

While the federal minimum wage is exactly the same in both California and Arkansas, the state minimum wages are not, California has a higher minimum wage than Arkansas economy hasn’t collapsed, everyone in Arkansas hasn’t moved to California.

LOL! Yes, I knew that. I lived in Little Rock, Arkansas for three years, but then I moved to California. Ooops.

There you go again. Comparing the difference between Arkansas and California economies to the difference between the Mexican economy and the U.S.

Yea, I can just see the NAU federal government letting them get away with that…NOT. There is a reason that that doesn’t happen all that often in Canada or the United States and those corrupt public officials in Mexico would discover with a rude shock what that is.

That doesn’t happen in the U.S.? Really? Have you ever heard of Jack Abromoff? How about John Murtha? William Jefferson? What planet are you on?

I’ll let my previous answer speak for itself, which was …

Do you think the U.S. is going to send Team America in to monitor the entire situation? Maybe some U.N. officials? You know? Just to make sure everything is legit and to prevent corruption?

Hmmm, I’m guessing that you don’t know the difference between State judiciary and Federal judiciary. Thats OK Al Capone and his buddies didn’t understand the difference either and look where it got them.

You’re cracking me up. Yes, the drug cartels and all of their money interests are really concerned. They’re shaking in their boots. I’m sure their attorneys are all pointing out the difference between Federal and State judiciary and making sure they follow the proper rules.

Hmmm, you remember that Rodney King dude, remember the riots that broke out after the cops that arrested and beat him were acquitted? Remember how California restored order? Yea, think about that one for a couple of minutes.

Actually, I don’t remember the cops restoring order. Maybe you can fill me in, as my memory is of the cops all standing back doing nothing as businesses were burnt to the ground. And I can only recall a couple of arrests, even while the rioters, attackers, arsonists, and looters were filmed in the act. Again, you’re living on a completely different planet from the rest of us, or you’re simply making stuff up. I’m beginning to think the ladder.
Here’s a question: How well is the full force of the U.S. military doing controlling the gang type tactics of the enemy in Iraq? You do know that those are the same tactics the drug cartels are prepared to use against any government attempting to take them down? Don’t you? How well is that battle going on the border of Loredo, Texas?

Again with your head in the sand.

It matters not one single bit how much elected officials, unelected officials, members of super seckret shadow governments or even space alien overlords push for the NAU, it will never happen unless the citizens first and foremost of the United states and then Mexico and Canada as well vote to allow it to happen.

Funny. I don’t recall any mention of an upcoming vote on the SPP, Tri-lateral agreement, or the Trans-Texas Corridor. They all seem to be moving along without our approval. Do you really think the NAU has to be an “official” merger to be functional? Was Congress going to put amnesty up for a vote? Last I checked, the U.S. Constitution provides that our government officials are required to enforce our laws. You know? Something about the “will of the people.” Seems to me that the contents of the Constitution doesn’t really concern them too much.

You may well have married a of Mexican , hell you might even be Mexican decent in other words Hispanic but you still have an enormous number of false stereotypical beliefs regarding Mexicans.

Again, I ask … have you ever been to Mexico, other than the tourist locations? Have you ever been outside the U.S.? It seems to me that you know absolutely nothing about Mexico, and you seem to be rather clueless about your own country also.

Have you ever read Mexico’s immigration laws? If not, you might want to check it out.

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 5:49 PM

I inspect parts manufactured in Mexico and assembled into products here in San Diego California.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM

BINGO! And now we know why this sap would have a personal interest in opening up the borders. Anyone ever wonder where that 15% in favor of amnesty comes from? It comes from business owners and others with personal agendas.

How much do you make Doriangrey? Is it enough that it’s worth changing the entire make-up and history of this country so that you can keep your job?

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 5:54 PM

You do realize that the US Constitution has been modified 27 times already without the Bill of Rights suffering right?

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:59 PM

Let’s modify the US Constitution so that doriangrey can have job security! Let me guess! You probably own stock in your company too, right? D@mn Constitution is putting an unfair burden on doriangrey and his poor family. If only we can open up the borders and get those Mexican trucks moving smoothly … doriangrey can make his fortune and live happily ever after.

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 5:58 PM

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:59 PM

Not to quibble but the first ten amendments (The Bill of Rights) were all done at once, so that would have been modification number one. And yes, seventeen times since then, but hardly without consequence to our freedoms.

You have the disastrous 16th amendment which brought us the income tax, (oh joy) which is in direct conflict with Article 1, Section 2, clause 3 of the original Constitution, real bad consequences. Then you have the nutty 18th amendment that made it impossible to get a drink (legally). Thank goodness the 21st amendment came along and repealed the 18th. And of course much has been written about the disasters effects of the 14th amendment, whether intentional or not. And to think we made all of those mistakes without having to deal with or include the wishes of two foreign governments.

Re-negotiating the Constitution with socialist Canada and wildly corrupt Mexico, oh boy, what a roll of the dice that would be. I figure the odds of our Bill of Rights coming out in tact would be about 1 in 50, and that’s being conservative.

And actually I use dihydrogen monoxide to make coffee and I’m against the proposed ban.

Maxx on August 8, 2007 at 6:04 PM

NAFTA is equally HATED by both liberals and conservatives.
Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 3:52 PM

…and Ron Paul will win in a landslide. We KNOW already, give it a rest.

logis on August 8, 2007 at 6:11 PM

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 5:49 PM

All I see is someone afraid of change. I wonder what the US would look like today if everyone in the US in 1800 had been as afraid as you are.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 6:16 PM

All I see is someone afraid of change. I wonder what the US would look like today if everyone in the US in 1800 had been as afraid as you are.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 6:16 PM

Change is not always for the better, ask the pre-Bolshevik Russians… if you can find any.

Maxx on August 8, 2007 at 6:20 PM

Sorry but I just don’t understand this whole North American Union paranoia. There was a point in time when the United States comprised of only thirteen states, then it grew to 24, then to 35 and eventually 50. Think about it realistically, the US economy is 6 times the combined size of Canada and Mexico and has 3 times the population of Canada and Mexico.

The United States would simply swallow Canada and Mexico whole without even burping. In other words the United states would go from having 50 states to having 75 or 80, plus it would solve the illegal immigration issue with Mexico while giving the United States complete and unrestricted access to Canada and Mexico’s natural resources. Basically a win – win situation for everyone involved.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 9:58 AM

We’d be absorbing a population with a mean IQ of 87 – about 1 SD below ours. It would form a permanent underclass in our society as it has already done in CA. They are 3 times more likely to end up in jail and have an illegitimacy rate of roughly 60%. Not the profile of a people I want in my country.

PRCalDude on August 8, 2007 at 6:29 PM

All I see is someone afraid of change.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 6:16 PM

Yep. That’s it exactly. We’re all just cowards. You’re simply a brave hero, rather than a money hungry fraud willing to sell out his country for personal gain.

Hey, I’ve got an idea! Why don’t you volunteer to go work at one of those fantastic new businesses in Mexico, for the same middle class wage that they’re making over there. You ought to do quite well, being that you understand the place so much better than the rest of us.

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 6:36 PM

Oh yeah. I forgot. Mexico doesn’t allow foreigners to take jobs unless there aren’t any Mexican workers. My bad.

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 6:38 PM

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 6:36 PM

Yea, right…If you were any smarter Einstein would be asking you to do his homework. Oh wait my bad, apparently according to PRCalDude the average Mexican IQ is 5 full standard deviation points higher than yours, so I guess Einstein wont be asking you for any help after all.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 6:59 PM

Gregor on August 8, 2007 at 6:36 PM

Oh and please feel free to continue to comment, dont worry if I dont respond for a while I have to go drink some Corona’s, you know how it is, gotta betray my country and all that…right???

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 7:21 PM

I inspect parts manufactured in Mexico and assembled into products here in San Diego California.

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM

How long have you lived here? California is now almost as segregated as South Africa under apartheid. The Mexicans aren’t upwardly mobile, they have a high incarceration rate, low educational achievement, and high illegitimacy rates. We now have international drug gangs and a population that doesn’t want to be American. What possible benefit are these ‘newcomers’ providing to our country?

Growing up, I used to see Americans in the construction and highway industries. Now all I see is Mexicans who are overly self-congratulatory about their work ethic, (they constantly remind white people of how lazy they are), and how this land used to be a part of Mexico. They speak their own language. They live in their own barrios. We now have a Latino political machine in Los Angeles with a corrupt mayor, DA, and state senator. We have 10 closed ERs in Los Angeles county alone. What are they doing for us?

PRCalDude on August 8, 2007 at 7:32 PM

What are they doing for us?

PRCalDude on August 8, 2007 at 7:32 PM

1.) Providing more votes for the Democrats, causing California to eventually become an entrenched one- political party, left wing state, just like here in the People’s Republic of Illinois.

2.) Providing more reasons why rewarding illegal aliens with the gift of USA citizenship 7 times since 1986 is really a very bad idea.

3.) Providing more reasons why domestic policies (“open borders”) that encourage socialism have negative results.

ColtsFan on August 8, 2007 at 8:55 PM

All I see is someone afraid of change. I wonder what the US would look like today if everyone in the US in 1800 had been as afraid as you are.
doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 6:16 PM

LOL! What a card! I wondered where I was going to get my entertainment tonight.

The people that came here in the 1800′s came without taxpayer “safety nets”. They either made it on their own or they didn’t make it. Half the people that came here in the last part of the 1800′s went back to their country of origin.

I don’t mind anyone coming here legally. I just don’t want to pay for them.

jaime on August 8, 2007 at 11:24 PM

As I understand it, “trade deficit” = the net transfer of wealth from one nation to another.

Then you don’t understand it.

The Unabrewer on August 9, 2007 at 1:19 AM

(Mcguyver on August 8, 2007 at 11:37 AM
you better read the Book titled: Shut Up and Sing, By Laura Ingraham)

And that applies to me how?

(I am always happy when your types expose themselves on HA)

**So exactly what would my type be there Einstein?

doriangrey on August 8, 2007 at 11:53 AM

*** The type that falls for my trap of sucking you into your

own self-inflated, Einsteinian ego driven, parts

inspector-Napoleon super human, downward spiraling,

self-negating, self minimizing trip — exposing you for your

really true innermost biased perspectives, that created for

us here at HA a truly remarkable and rare viewing of

priceless comedy that will go into such rare archives of our

foremost valued Troll files, which enables us to quit

wasting our time viewing and commenting or

quoting you which allows us to sleep better at

night and gives us more energy from the rush of dopamine

that’s released from laughing our asses off over you trying

get us to respond to your future posts, and knowing you will

continue to try to amuse us provides us more laughter which

as you obviously can tell (with your smart brain) will be

the gift that keeps on giving, So cheers!!!!!

Mcguyver on August 9, 2007 at 1:24 AM

Mcguyver on August 9, 2007 at 1:24 AM

Nice job turning HA into dKos their MaC…

PRCalDude on August 8, 2007 at 7:32 PM

How long have you lived here?

37 years, and Dude, you are really starting to sound like a racist.

doriangrey on August 9, 2007 at 10:09 AM

Last year, the U.S. hit HISTORIC record levels in:
-U.S. exports
-industrial production
-real hourly comp
-corporate profits
-federal tax revenues
-retail sales
-GDP
-productivity
-number people with jobs
-number of students in college
-airline passenger traffic
-Dow Jones Industrial Avg

Keep in mind, we broke all these records in the middle of a war.

The majority of Journalists do not have any background in economics, so that is whey they are all so “surprised” to see how resilient our economy is to natural disasters like Katrina, Bear markets, or the recent credit crunch. Journalists report a one-day 300 point loss in the DJIA like it’s armageddon. But when the Dow hit 14,000 the coverage was indifferent.

Let’s play it out.

1)Who is the willing buyer? I believe the U.S. doesn’t have to pay its obligation until maturity, so we are only obligated to pay interest as it comes due. So, the Chinese would have to find a willing buyer, but…

2)To perform such a sell-off, I think the Chinese would have to offer a discount, which would have a precipitous effect on their total return. I doubt their advisers are even suggesting such a tactic. Here’s why:

3)The sell-off would have a drastic effect, shrinking the money supply, tightening credit and cause the dollar to fall. Another result is spiking bond yields, which would have an inverse effect on bond, as well as stock prices. Certainly there’d be a recession, but it’s a boomerang effect. We will buy less of their exports as a result of the falling dollar against the rising Yuan. Since the U.S. economy makes up about 1/3 of the world economy, the ripple effect would be felt throughout the world. That’s like spitting in the wind, or tugging on Superman’s cape!!

budorob on August 9, 2007 at 10:21 AM

37 years, and Dude, you are really starting to sound like a racist.

doriangrey on August 9, 2007 at 10:09 AM

Here it comes. Fine, look up the statistics on their incarceration rates, SAT scores, graduation rate, and illegitimacy rate yourself. While you’re at it, look up the terms ‘La Raza,’ ‘brown pride’, and head over to the MEChA website. Spend a little time familiarizing yourself with ‘The Plan of Aztlan.’

Given that you’ve lived here 37 years, you’re old enough to see your business profit from illegal labor, but not old enough to care what it’s done to your children and their future in this country, or you have enough money to insulate them from the problem. My guess is that you live in Del Mar or Carmel Valley, drive a Mercedes or BMW like all of the other ‘new rich’ in that area, and care little about anything other than yourself and your money.

PRCalDude on August 9, 2007 at 11:17 AM

PRCalDude on August 9, 2007 at 11:17 AM

My guess is that you live in Del Mar or Carmel Valley, drive a Mercedes or BMW like all of the other ‘new rich’ in that area, and care little about anything other than yourself and your money.

You don’t guess very well. I live in Ramona (thats 35 miles east of San Diego out in the rural agricultural countryside), Drive a 1984 Corvette earn $12.00 an hour and work a 50 hour week. I bust my ass for what I have, my company doesn’t hire Illegals and the bull$hit that all I care about is money is well just plain pathetic.

The people at my work are a wide mixture of ethnicities with less than 1/4 of them being of Mexican/Hispanic decent, all of whom are legal US citizens. We employee over 300 people and every single one of them is committed to making the best possible product for our customers.

Toro is a damn fine company and we are 100 percent committed to America and seeing that America remains the greatest nation on the face of the earth. The facility I work for makes as a facility at the request of the employees donations to the Wounded Warrior Foundation on a quarterly basis.

Every year we take up donations to purchase Christmas presents for the families of personal serving in Iraq. These donations come out of the pockets of the employees, not from the corporate account. And yes I take an active part in these programs.

I find it highly disturbing that individuals here would so quickly resort to dKos like behavior in attacking anyone who suggests any idea that they disagree with.

I idea that I would trust the American people to make a rational decision regarding whether or not to join a North American Union and that I do not see such a Union as a threat to our constitution or bill of rights does not make me a money grubbing narcistic traitor.

The fact that I do not see shadow governments, tri-lateral commission or space alien overlord plotting the destruction of the US Constitution does not mean I am blind.

Further more the fact that I don’t see the Mexican people in a negative or hateful light doesn’t mean I am an open borders socialist.

doriangrey on August 9, 2007 at 12:06 PM

I find it highly disturbing that individuals here would so quickly resort to dKos like behavior in attacking anyone who suggests any idea that they disagree with.

I idea that I would trust the American people to make a rational decision regarding whether or not to join a North American Union and that I do not see such a Union as a threat to our constitution or bill of rights does not make me a money grubbing narcistic traitor.

You revile dKos-like behavior but immediately resort to the same tactics when presented with uncomfortable facts about the ‘newcomers’ in our society that, as recently as a few months ago, race-rioted in a downtown park in Los Angeles for their ‘rights’ and failed to disperse when ordered. A year ago, they took down the American flag and replaced it with the Mexican flag in numerous places in the state. When I bring up a few uncomfortable facts about them, your reply is immediately, “Racism!”

I am glad that you have such a great experience with them in San Diego. By 13 year-old brother-in-law hasn’t with the ones at his school, neither have my other in-laws who’ve been displaced in the construction industry by cheap Mexican labor.

Further more the fact that I don’t see the Mexican people in a negative or hateful light doesn’t mean I am an open borders socialist.

You’re welcome to view them however you want. The statistics of their population do. not. lie.

PRCalDude on August 9, 2007 at 12:30 PM

PRCalDude on August 9, 2007 at 12:30 PM

When I bring up a few uncomfortable facts about them,

Funny, thats how racists always defend their condescending arrogant dehumanization of those they consider less than themselves. Yes, I have seen your “FACTS” and know them for the distortions of reality that they are.

I am no illegal immigration advocate, make no mistake about that. I believe in securing our borders strongly enough to have e-mailed faxed and called my senators multiple times a day during the shamnesty debacle.

I work with and know a substantial number of individuals of Hispanic decent and know from these personal relationships that you are casting unwarranted aspersions upon their character.

The statistics of their population do. not. lie.

Statistics don’t lie, thats the job of those quoting statistics to prove their agenda to be true, regardless of what the facts might be.

Minorities have higher incarceration rates, lower SAT scores, lower graduation rate, and higher illegitimacy rates than the non-white majority. This suggest a problem not with the minorities but with our culture.

You’re welcome to view them however you want

If you cant be the blatant racism in this statement then I just don’t know what to say to you.

doriangrey on August 9, 2007 at 1:05 PM

Funny, thats how racists always defend their condescending arrogant dehumanization of those they consider less than themselves. Yes, I have seen your “FACTS” and know them for the distortions of reality that they are.

The site you gave me presented the same facts you did. The CDC has also listed an illegitimacy rate of 60% for Hispanics. The IQ scores come from ‘IQ and the Wealth of Nations.’ You can find it on Amazon. Give yourself a big pat on the back though. If you view them positively as a race or people (as they view themselves), you’re still practicing racism. You’re just viewing them positively as you said here:

Further more the fact that I don’t see the Mexican people in a negative or hateful light doesn’t mean I am an open borders socialist.

Ok, but you’ve still defined them as ‘the Mexican people.’ I have as well, as have they. I view them differently than you. That doesn’t make me any more racist than you, does it?

PRCalDude on August 9, 2007 at 1:34 PM

PRCalDude on August 9, 2007 at 1:34 PM

If you view them positively as a race or people (as they view themselves), you’re still practicing racism.

I don’t view “them” positively or negatively, I see individuals some whom I know and many others whom I do not know. My judgments are not based on sterile statistics but upon interactions with very distinct individuals.

Ok, but you’ve still defined them as ‘the Mexican people.’ I have as well, as have they. I view them differently than you. ?

Mexican is a nationality not an ethnicity, you do know that right? When I refer to “The Mexican People” I am very specifically referring to the citizens of the nation of Mexico. When I am not specifically referring to citizens of Mexico I do not call them Mexicans, I call them Aldo, or Eddie, or Loretta or sometimes when discussing Latinos that I do not personally know I refer to them as Hispanic’s or Latinos.

That doesn’t make me any more racist than you, does it

You just don’t get it do you? It’s how you view “them” that makes you a racist, and yes it does. As I said I do not view “them” in either the positive or negative but as individuals whom I either do or do not know. Nor do I place any stereotypical aspersions upon them.

As a sovereign nation we need to know to know the who, what, where, when, and why of any citizen of another sovereign nation that is within the borders of our nation. This goes far beyond the predicates of basic national security right down to the safety and security of the individual citizen.

America is a nation of immigrants and I for one have no problem with legal immigration regardless of the number of immigrants of any specific ethnic group. I couldn’t give a damn if 50 million Mexican citizen decided to immigrate here legally and become American citizens. All I want of them is for them to do it legally and follow our laws.

I am not afraid of a North American Union for the very simple reason that I do not believe for one single second that the American people would abandon our constitution or bill of right in order to achieve a North American Union.

Because of my trust in my fellow citizens, my belief in our entrepreneurial spirit, our adventurous spirit and our work ethic I cannot see how a North American Union would be anything other than another opportunity that we would seize with great gusto whist displaying to the entire world just how great this great republic really is.

The inclusion into the Union of the Louisiana purchase didn’t spell the end of the United States, nor did Texas’s entry or the purchase of the South West territory or Alaska.

As the United States has grown over the last 200 years the addition of more states into the Union has never brought about any of the fears that those objecting to a North American Union are screaming about.

Face the truth man, our history is and always has been one of expansion of the Union. That expansion has always been a positive and beneficial thing to everyone involved.

Unlike the blame America first crowd who see every aspect of America as a triumph of evil, I personally see that United States as the greatest force for good currently on the face of the earth.

Every single time we have expanded our Union the effects have been profoundly good and beneficial to every one involved and I do not see that changing any time soon.

doriangrey on August 9, 2007 at 4:08 PM

Face the truth man, our history is and always has been one of expansion of the Union. That expansion has always been a positive and beneficial thing to everyone involved.

Unlike the blame America first crowd who see every aspect of America as a triumph of evil, I personally see that United States as the greatest force for good currently on the face of the earth.

Every single time we have expanded our Union the effects have been profoundly good and beneficial to every one involved and I do not see that changing any time soon.

I’m not quite sure why you’re praising the NAU to me. Obviously, I think it would benefit big business only. But our expansion has always involved expansion of Europeans into the different parts of America. When we took over the American southwest, the Mexicans were bought out or kicked out. There has never been the current multi-cult that we have now. We’ve hitherto been an ethnically homogeneous mixture of Europeans, with a 10% black population that still sees itself in terms of its race. Until 60 years ago, white people saw themselves the same way. Its a perfectly natural thing. The human brain recognizes faces that bear a familial resemblance and humans congregate with those that look to the same. Or, “Birds of a feather flock together.” I am glad you have a small outpost of racial cooperation there in Ramona, but such is not to be found in most places in California where large portions of Mexicans are to be found. I couldn’t survive in East LA, parts of Oakland, Salinas, or anywhere else where they are dominant. I couldn’t send my kids to their schools as they would be picked-on. I can’t think of a single Mexican neighborhood I’d like to move to. I’m not really saying anything that you probably don’t already instinctively know, you’re just in denial. That’s your prerogative. I’d prefer if you didn’t lecture me about my views, because I don’t agree and I don’t see them as wrong. And I have a lot of hard statistics on my side.

When I am not specifically referring to citizens of Mexico I do not call them Mexicans, I call them Aldo, or Eddie, or Loretta or sometimes when discussing Latinos that I do not personally know I refer to them as Hispanic’s or Latinos.

Raaacist.

When I refer to “The Mexican People” I am very specifically referring to the citizens of the nation of Mexico.

Funny. Mexico’s official policy is that it is a ‘mestizo nation.’ In actually, it is highly stratified by race. The poorest Indians and Mestizos come here. The rest stay. It is funny how quick you are to wield the racist brand, however. Whites who want to make themselves look better than other whites often do this.

PRCalDude on August 9, 2007 at 4:53 PM

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