Video: Mitt on Mormonism — unplugged; Update: Mitt compares Obama to Dr. Strangelove
posted at 9:45 am on August 5, 2007 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
Find out what happens when social cons stop being polite and start getting real. Barnett has background; the magic begins when the headphones come off, but there’s an early detour through crackpotville when the host urges Mitt in the event that he’s elected to invite the Supreme Court to step outside.
Update: A commenter reminds me that Mitt also made his Hezbollah-ish comments this week, so maybe it wasn’t all that great. I have less of a problem with what he’s trying to say there than others do, but fair enough.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »
Sit down Mitt, its over
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 9:54 AM
This is also why Dan Patrick in Texas as a conservative talk show host was a complete bust as a State Senator.
This was the kind of exchanges we were treated to constantly in Austin and it well, didn’t get taxes cut, nor spending either. These gotcha talk show exchanges turned off his conservative brethern who voted like democrats overwhelmingly against most of his propositions. It was embarassing.
Here we have an abviously conservative Romney, telling a talk show host everything he wanted to know on abortion yet it had absolutely no effect.
Heck we have enough trouble getting any candidate to say anything about any issue outside a talking point carefully crafted
Totally lost on this tool of a talk show host
But put a fork in Romney – he’s done
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 10:12 AM
I find it interesting that someone who is outside the LDS faith has the unmitigated gall to tell a Mormon what the LDS church teaches.
Mitts! tactic on this is clear. He is not going to engage in public debate on this. Notice how Mitt! refused to engage the guy on air. He tried to respectfully answer the hosts question OFF AIR. Mitts! position is that the teachings of his church will not dictate what is best for this country. We aren’t electing him as a theocratic leader and people need to realize that. Mitt! was way more patient than other candidates (and non-candidate) have been with detractors.
On a side note…..This host didn’t tell Mitt! that the video was on. No prob, because this shows how Mitt! reacts when the cameras are not on. Very presidential and I doubt you’ll see a video on Youtube with Mitt! putting on a show to attract groupies. He had his say, and was as respectful as you can be to an idiot.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 10:23 AM
CSDeven
Yes I missed the theologan in Chief post as well in my Civics classes
This guy was just trying to end Romney’s career and it was totally unnecessary
He had him backtracking on what he did when and how
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 10:27 AM
I agree with allot of what the Host says, but he needs to shut up and let his guest speak. It is obvious that he has insecurity issues.
I have known many Mormons and with out exception they seem to be upstanding, hard working, self reliant folk.
I guarantee you that if it where Mormons that where housed in the superdome in New Orleans, It would have been cleaner when they left than when they got there.
TheSitRep on August 5, 2007 at 10:29 AM
Did he just say that Christ will reign in Missouri? Now that’s crackpotville.
boomer on August 5, 2007 at 10:33 AM
What? Just what makes you think that this one event will lead to the same result as the example you used did? You obviously are not a Mormon. Mormons deal with this kind of insulting crap on a daily basis and Mitt! was more than capable of putting that jerk in his place. (Which he did) Mitt! did not go off his policy for public consumption. Mitts! policy is very clear and he was simply defending himself to an individual and was not using that exchange as part of his policy.
This interview was a set up. The host started into a line of questioning designed to inflame Mitt! into saying something off camera/mic so this guy could post his secret video on Youtube. It backfired on him. It shows the host as an idiot and Mitt! as very presidential and someone who is quite capable of standing up for his beliefs to ANYONE. Including terrorists and democrats.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 10:38 AM
Yeah, when you don’t get context, dying and coming back to life is crackpotville. Instead of making uninformed comments, why don’t you go get educated about the subject? Or would you rather wait for Mitt! to give you a history lesson on the LDS church instead of explain what his plans are to lead the country.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 10:43 AM
I’d like to get Bryan’s take on this one…. though it seems like a particularly slimy thing for the radio host to do.
That said, of course some things about Mormonism seem a bit odd to outsiders…. just as many things about Catholicism seem odd to me, or the whole “speaking in tongues” bit Pentacostals and others do, or the tendancy for many other “followers of Christ” to have series of “here’s how to bash other religions rather than follow our own beliefs” days too.
Point is, there are plenty of what appear to be odd things out there. Buddism, Hinduism, even Atheism–all have irrational beliefs. And as for Islam, well… there’s plenty of good things in Islam, if they were emphasized instead of other things. But they aren’t, thus explaining much of our problems today.
Vanceone on August 5, 2007 at 10:50 AM
Csdeven
His wishy washing on abortion is what killed him, that and a heathly dose of how far LDS is from christians
I’m not saying this out of a personal judgement – just the cold hard realities of the politic world we live in
Basically, like Guilaini, most Republicans are not ready to support those on either end of the spectrum
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 10:51 AM
This is the first time I’ve seen Romney look like a human being. Shiny, plastic Romney doesn’t do much for me, but this guy I kind of like. Not everybody looks better when he’s arguing with an idiot, but Romney does. Whoever posted this did him a favor.
bokonon42 on August 5, 2007 at 10:53 AM
I’m not a Romney supporter but that guy was a giant douche bag. He thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room even when he’s in the room with a guy who is far more accomplished. I know the type. He learns about some obscure subject or memorizes the points someone else made in some book no one has ever read and then whips this “knowledge” out like an intellectual cod piece. He used the phrase “false logic” to suggest that Romney didn’t understand the implications of the teachings of his own faith. Then after he gets bitch slapped by Mitt he blames it on the fact that he was getting his information from George Stephanopolous. This guy had nothing but weak cheese. Which wouldn’t piss me off so much if he wasn’t so smug and condescending while simultaneously being such a pathetic little little man. I want to make sure I emphasize the LITTLE part. Odds are this guy suffers from penis envy. Somebody stick a fork in him.
D0WNT0WN on August 5, 2007 at 10:56 AM
While I may disagree with Mitt about his religion I don’t hold it against him either. Everybody believes in something. Given the choice between someone who believes Christ will reign in America as opposed to someone who believes in open borders, who would you trust to be president? Someone who believes in the Mormon Church is way better than someone who believes in liberalism/socialism. Mormons that I know are wonderful people.
Guardian on August 5, 2007 at 11:02 AM
Listen carefully. Mormons ARE Christians. I’m not a mormon but this ignorance of and bigotry towards them bothers me. Knock it off.
D0WNT0WN on August 5, 2007 at 11:07 AM
I’m not a Romney supporter but that guy was a giant douche bag. He thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room even when he’s in the room with a guy who is far more accomplished. I know the type. He learns about some obscure subject or memorizes the points someone else made in some book no one has ever read and then whips this “knowledge” out like an intellectual cod piece. He used the phrase “false logic” to suggest that Romney didn’t understand the implications of the teachings of his own faith. Then after he gets smacked down by Mitt he blames it on the fact that he was getting his information from George Stephanopolous. This guy had nothing but weak cheese. Which wouldn’t piss me off so much if he wasn’t so smug and condescending while simultaneously being such a pathetic little little man. I want to make sure I emphasize the LITTLE part. Odds are this guy suffers from penis envy. Somebody stick a fork in HIM.
D0WNT0WN on August 5, 2007 at 11:09 AM
Seriously – is America going to elect anyone who believes the world will one day be ruled, after a Second Coming, from Missouri?! Granted, it’s not any wackier than much else many profess to believe, but it’s just too outside the mainstream to be viable politically.
And just wait till the drooling MSM unleashes its bag of Mormon “exposés”. I like Romney a lot and would back him vigorously, but there’s no way his candidacy can survive this. It’s too bad.
Halley on August 5, 2007 at 11:09 AM
Downtown
There was no intended bigotry I should have added how different the Mormon denomination is from mainstream catholics and protestants
But the point was, its going to be hard to explain the wishy washy abortion stances and his church which is SECRETIVE and somewhat different from the other 96% of christians
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 11:13 AM
I’ve long said he needs to relax and be himself. Too often (imho) he’s trying to be perfect – be what HE THINKS people want. When in reality, what they want is someone more like his real personality.
TheBigOldDog on August 5, 2007 at 11:24 AM
Radio hosts like this wear me out. If you invite a guest on and ask them questions, then let them answer for Pete’s sake! This guy comes off as both smug and unknowledgeable.
I agree with Guardian, this clip makes him look good. I honestly don’t know how his religion will play out among evangelicals, but there is some irony that in a country that was founded in part because of religious persecution, that such would still exist. (No, people aren’t burning houses, but calling people ‘cults’ etc is social persecution).
Spirit of 1776 on August 5, 2007 at 11:27 AM
Oops, meant I agree with bokonon42 – who was the one that said clip makes him look good. Citation error!
Spirit of 1776 on August 5, 2007 at 11:29 AM
I don’t think it’s a wishy-washy stance at all. I think he’s come to a principled stand on the issue of abortion within the framework of what his responsibilities would be as President and the situation as it now exists.
As much as I abhor abortion, I want a president, not a king or a theocrat, and I want one that will not cause civil wars because he is on various missions from God, the ghost of Karl Marx, or the Goracle.
Mitt’s stance here has a strong federalist echo. I would like to see him expound on how this federalist reasoning used in his abortion stance would be applied to many of the other issues of the day.
There’s one thing that really impressed me, though. How spontaneously articulate he was in the discussion. Of course, that might be a bit misleading because the discussion was on the two subjects he’s been most prepared for, but if he can do it even half as well on a wide variety of subjects, then he’s half-way to winning all debates he enters into and has a huge leg up on Fred!.
Dusty on August 5, 2007 at 11:46 AM
“Mitt’s having a good week.” Are you freakin kidding me? You forgot about Wednesday’s “Osama momma” moment? Here is a guy just this week holding up Hizballah as the role model for “health dipomacy” and people here are singing his praises. Unbelievable.
lowandslow on August 5, 2007 at 11:59 AM
I’ve watched that radio interview interview twice and the host comes off as an even bigger ass with each viewing.
pjcomix on August 5, 2007 at 12:07 PM
I am curious. Are you a Mormon? Just asking. I’ve known and worked with Mormans and find them to be decent people devoted to family and work. I am not one of Mitt’s Mutts, but I don’t have any problems with his religion and being President.
Mallard T. Drake on August 5, 2007 at 12:22 PM
Yeah, Mormons are secretative, that’s why they have thousands of 19 year olds in shirts and ties running around the world talking about the church.
Dumbass.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on August 5, 2007 at 12:26 PM
If you want to know about the LDS church all you have to do is goto http://www.lds.org or mormon.org. Real secret.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on August 5, 2007 at 12:31 PM
Mormons do believe that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri, but that Noah and his family were transported to the “old world” during the flood.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on August 5, 2007 at 12:34 PM
I’ve never been much of a Mitt fan, but after seeing/hearing that confrontation with that idiot talk show host in Iowa, I actually like him more now.
I thought he handled himself well, especially so if he didn’t realize he was being captured by an in-studio camera while off the air.
As someone noted above, the talk show host guy was an idiot. I love people who know more about something (in this case, the Mormon religion) than someone who actually is living that specific thing.
asc85 on August 5, 2007 at 12:45 PM
I didn’t know that. Learn something new everyday courtesy HA it seems.
Spirit of 1776 on August 5, 2007 at 12:48 PM
Re: the Obama comment. It’s a good laugh line and fits well in other respects. On the whole, I don’t think taking potshots at a sinking boat on the Democratic side worth making the remark.
And I agree, AP, on the Hezb remark. It was good in essense but poorly presented. He should refine it, i.e., drop the Hezb link and tie it to our own much more complex strategy vis-a-vis the surge and he’ll have a great meme. Once he does that, he can counterpose the purposes of ours and Hezb’s and it will be fantastic.
Dusty on August 5, 2007 at 12:54 PM
I see a lot of bigotry towards the Mormons and Mr. Romney in these posts…some of you should open your minds before shooting off your mouths on subjects you no little about. Basically Mormons are God loving people, not to be confused with “God fearing people”, words used to show how devoted some religions are to Christianity…that alone is confusing to me. Why would one fear their god?
Another thing Mormons are just ordinary people, there are good(say Romney) and there are bad, deceptive people(like Harry Reid). I consider myself qualified to make these statements based on the fact I raised in the Mormon church which I rejected as a 13 yr old know it all, and no I did not join another church after that.
You won’t find anymore self sufficient, supporting people in the world. When in time of need the Mormons come to the aide of their communities whether it be L.A. or Peoria, Ill. or La Paz, and they don’t ask anything in return. It’s their culture, their way of sharing with their neighbors. That looks pretty secretive.
Now as far as being “secretive”, who ever thinks that must wear blinders or a closed mind(bigot). The Mormons send hundreds if not thousands out into the world monthly to proselytize, how far do you think they’d get if they were a secretive organization? Think about it a little.
Looks like a few of you favor Gulaini, fine, pick your man, but don’t forget his stance or is it stances he has on abortion and the 2nd amendment, every argument you make to support him on those issues can be applied to Romney’s stance on abortion.
And I haven’t decided on my candidate yet, other than anyone but a liberal from any party. Keep in mind the president is not King, our 1st president, swept that idea under the rug.
oldernslower on August 5, 2007 at 12:54 PM
E L Fredrick
Just try and go into a Mormon Tabernacle
Brain Surgeon
They are known for their secretiveness their ban on outsiders
You leave yourself open for criticism when you do things like that
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 1:12 PM
I just wish Romney Would be like that in public all the time.
He comes off as a little stiff i think.
Clearly he is very good off the cuff!
_Wasteland Man.
WastelandMan on August 5, 2007 at 1:17 PM
Also Sniper One
I’m sorry but most people are mainstream, I’m not judging whether Mormons are christians, or anyone else, thats for God to decide if any of us are christians
What I’m stating is the bloody obvious, they are DIFFERENT, and they CHOOSE to be that way.
When you MAKE CHOICES like that, then its not bigotry to point out that 96% are not mormons, don’t want to be mormons, don’t understand mormons and will probably not likely vote for a Mormon
Especially a well spoken consevative one who will support abortion and then unsupport abortion
Its not a big stretch
Now you and I could go on and on about the product of religous intolerance and that someone’s faith is not an issue and we would be in total agreement but life and politics are not fair
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 1:19 PM
[EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 1:12 PM]
You mean like the one in Salt Lake City that I was pretty much free to wander in, back in 1989?
Dusty on August 5, 2007 at 1:23 PM
E L Fredrick,
A Mormon temple is a bunch of small rooms, I think you would be disappointed. More info is here
bnelson44 on August 5, 2007 at 1:23 PM
Dusty
Try wandering in any others my friend, they are closed sure 1 or 2% are open and they even televise the Mormon Tabernacle Choir
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 1:35 PM
That radio host was obnoxious.
I wish I’d known there was a debate today.
FloatingRock on August 5, 2007 at 1:36 PM
That was a farce, what a cretin that tools is(the host). You know it’s an underhanded attack when Mr.Romney explains his position at least 4 times and the tool has the same questions…duh.
oldernslower on August 5, 2007 at 1:38 PM
Obviously, the Mormon issue is going to be in play. As it should and must, given how Mormonism is so far out of the mainstream. If a major candidate from either party were a Buddhist, atheist, Muslim or Scientologist, you can be sure religion would be a big issue. There’s nothing wrong with that. If the Democrats ran a Rastafarian, you can be sure they’d be screaming “keep religion out of this campaign” just like some on our side are trying to do with Romney now.
The problem will be the way the MSM frames it, to smear Romney. I just don’t see how he can possibly survive that onslaught once it gears up for real, though I’d like him to – not enough to take the nomination away from Rudy, but Romney deserves a fair contest.
If he has to sit on national TV and defend the reasoning behind Noah being “transported to the old world”, enough eyes will roll to make him instant toast. Is that fair, given how any other religion can be pegged with similar questions? No, but I’m sure that will be the political reality.
Then again, the MSM may fear Rudy so much (as the only sure bet to beat Hillary) that they conspire to help Romney and give him a pass. Hmmmm……
Halley on August 5, 2007 at 1:42 PM
Eric what are you afraid of that is going on in the most sacred of Mormon structures. Must be something terrible, you seem very worried about how some people practice their religion. Do they not have the right to practice their religion, where is it written in the constitution all churches have to be open to all ?
oldernslower on August 5, 2007 at 1:46 PM
Just out of curio, why must it? I’m inclined to a Jeffersonian point of view: my religion is between me and God.
Spirit of 1776 on August 5, 2007 at 1:49 PM
Me too! I don’t like to miss them.
Spirit of 1776 on August 5, 2007 at 1:51 PM
oldernslower on August 5, 2007 at 1:46 PM
I really don’t care and no, I’m not afraid, but when you belong to a secretive religion that many faiths do not recognise or wild rumors are rampant about and you decide to run for the highest office ine the land AND you give conflicting answers about your stance on abortion with has faith overtones
Don’t be surprized that it didnt do him anygood
Personally, I only care about his positions
But thats me
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 1:59 PM
Sorry went to say abortion, which has faith overtones
Look Romney should not have been grilled on his faith, had the guy just kept grilling him on abortion and why he had different stances
Romney would still be toast
EricPWJohnson on August 5, 2007 at 2:01 PM
Romney’s stance on abortion changed from Rudy’s to Brownback’s.
Romney has always been against abortion. If he was pro-abortion he could never have been made a mormon bishop and stake president.
His change was whether abortion should be legislated along with other life issues like stem cells, etc.
He’s gone from anti-abortion/pro-choice to anti-abortion/anti-choice.
It’s not really hard to understand.
Sebastian on August 5, 2007 at 2:31 PM
Seriously, is America really going to elect anyone who believes the best government is the one that dominates all facets of life, including taking care of health care, taking profits from successful companies and using it to bolster government largesse? Granted, it’s not any wackier than much else many profess to believe, but it’s just too outside the mainstream to be viable politically.
Seriously, is America really going to elect anyone who believes we should sip tea with dictators while bombing our own alliws? Granted, it’s not any wackier than much else many profess to believe, but it’s just too outside the mainstream to be viable politically.
Try. Harder.
BKennedy on August 5, 2007 at 2:40 PM
It was pretty decent. There’s a good recap here.
Amazingly enough, real actual people sent in videos to ABC and, get this, those videos were in the form of question to the candidates. You’re not going to believe this but ABC played the videos and the candidates actually responded to them!
And here I was thinking that the Republicans were afraid of taking questions from real people cause that seems to be what everyone is saying.
ahem.
JackStraw on August 5, 2007 at 2:48 PM
csdeven
What did this guy say about Mormonism that wasn’t true?
packsoldier on August 5, 2007 at 2:51 PM
The whole thing is silly. We can not expect each religion to only vote for those who believe as they do. Should Baptist only vote Baptist? Or maybe at Protestant? Surely not Catholic? See my point? If Christ said to only vote for those that uphold my beliefs, my laws, then we would not get very far. But if we vote in those with like-minds, we get a lot further. Each has their own faiths, each lives their own lives, each have their own free will.
We all have a qualms about other religions, but in the end, we have to have faith in the religion we believe in, and trust that God is in control, in time, his plan will come to pass. I the mean time, we vote for change, for someone that best holds our values, Mitt says he wont push LDS on us, which is good. If he wants to live his life by their doctrine, good for him, there are far worse ways to live your life.
WoosterOh on August 5, 2007 at 2:52 PM
Great, thanks. Hopefully abc, like msnbc did, will put the debate video on their site too. I’m sorry I missed it. Call me a glutton for punishment, but I like watching them.
Spirit of 1776 on August 5, 2007 at 2:56 PM
But, Jackstraw… it wasn’t from YOUTUBE! Everyone knows the only proper way to ask questions from average, everyday americans is to have a bunch of 12-19 year old kids and various other timewasting, generally left-leaning fame-seekers send in videos to an entertainment site to be evaluated and selected by a dinosaur media network.
BKennedy on August 5, 2007 at 3:10 PM
Even Herod’s temple was limited in who could go into certain areas.
The reasons were the same as they are for the LDS church….it wasn’t secret, it was sacred.
Look at the amount of dis-information in this thread. Someone used the term tabernacle. The tabernacle is open to the public. It is/was where the choir sang, conferences are held, and other activities. The design of the original tabernacle was that of a boat hull turn upside down. That is why it was able to stand with very few internal supports.
So, please, those of you who get your information from any source outside the LDS church, please refrain from acting like you are speaking the truth and qualify your opinions as what you heard from a second or third hand source.
Until you have read and understood the context of the practices of the LDS church, you really have no clue and you are spreading lies and mis-information when you repeat what you have heard or read from others.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 3:10 PM
I have studied every single bit of anti-mormon literature and compared it to the teachings of the LDS church. I have found that every criticism of the LDS church is based in bigotry and ignorance and I have found that every teaching of the LDS church in based in love of God, family, country, and their fellow man. So, I don’t give a crap how far away from the mainstream they appear to be on some issues of religious beliefs. They are decent folk who love this country and respect the faiths of others even unto the detriment of their own comfort in order to accommodate those of those faiths. Mitt! will be no different.
So, drop the faith bashing and lets vet the guy on issues that matter as they relate to the job of POTUS.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 3:22 PM
I had no idea that Mormons thought Missouri was the Garden of Eden. Head, meet desk.
jambus59 on August 5, 2007 at 3:26 PM
Unbelievable?! You make such an ill-informed and misguided comment like that and you use the word “unbelievable”?
Hezbollah STOLE the concept of winning over hearts and minds from the USA. Mitt! was reminding us that we need to use the same tactic to deny terrorists the fertile ground to establish themselves in countries with a weak central government.
And guess what? WE ALREADY ARE ENGAGING IN THE EXACT SAME POLICY IN THE HORN OF AFRICA! And it’s working.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 3:28 PM
I find it interesting that someone who is outside the LDS faith has the unmitigated gall to tell a Mormon what the LDS church teaches.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 10:23 AM
I am outside the LDS faith and I have the unmitigated gall to tell what the LDS church teaches.
It teaches people to be good.
I have lived in quite a number of different places over the years, including 6 months in Utah, and saw a greater percentage of good in Utah than anywhere else.
MB4 on August 5, 2007 at 3:30 PM
I linked to it in the Hillary thread last night. I DVR’d it and watched half of it this AM. George, so far was vary classy and fair. Mitt! was kicking butt, Rudy sounded good. McCain was alright as was Huckabee and AP’s hero Tancredo. Hunter was OK, but Brownback came off as a religious bigot, Tommy was weak, and Ron Paul, was the short sighted federalist proponant that he always has been.
I’ll watch the rest and try to give an update. It’d be nice if AP or Bryan would start a thread for the debate.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 3:34 PM
Did he just say that Christ will reign in Missouri? Now that’s crackpotville.
boomer on August 5, 2007 at 10:33 AM
Every religion is “crackpotville” to someone.
MB4 on August 5, 2007 at 3:34 PM
So far the money quote by Mitt! directed at Brownbacks accusation that Mitt! was pro-choice….
Paraphrased: “I changed my position on abortion….and I am sick and tired of holier-than-thou types looking down their nose at me because they have been pro-life longer than me.”
The audience went absolutely crazy with applauds.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 3:38 PM
You’re right. I just get so sick and tired of those who cast the LDS faith in the worst possible light when they know nothing of the facts or the context of their beliefs.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 3:43 PM
Aside:
Intrade realtime quotes:
Giuliani 35.9%
Thompson 31.4%
Romney 18.5%
McCain 6.0%
Gingrich 3.0%
MB4 on August 5, 2007 at 4:02 PM
To each’s own beliefs, or non-beliefs.
However, me thinks that a Romney presidency would look similar to this thread, for 4, or 8 years. No winners and no loosers. Just a lot of discussion, in lieu of other important tasks to accomplish. In other words, a huge distraction.
Entelechy on August 5, 2007 at 4:08 PM
Jan Mickelson is well respected in Iowa. He is a solid conservative radio host. His show is on WHO in Des Moines. I know most of those here don’t have the opportunity to hear him and it isn’t up to me to defend him but I also looked at the video. I did not hear it live. It is streamed live M-F if you care to listen.
I think Jan was trying to get him to explain how he could, as a politician, support abortion in his political life but in his personal life (his religion) say its wrong. Jan is coming from a conservative Christian perspective where your public stance is the same as your political stance and he doesn’t understand how you can compartmentalize and separate your personal feelings on abortion from your political position on abortion. He has a good feel for Iowa Conservatives and was trying to relay that to Romney.
The point about Jerusalem in Missouri I think was to point out how Mormonism differentiates from mainstream Christianity. I don’t know why he brought it up. I agree with Mitt though he is not running for any office in his church and his church isn’t running for office. I think Jan’s question was out of line.
Now, lastly, at the risk of getting shouted down by any and all LDS people on here I will say most people are indeed uneducated about the LDS church. Anyone in this country can start a church and claim to be a Christian and who am I to refute it? Before you start telling people they don’t know what they are talking about when they say something regarding the LDS church (i.e. New Jerusalem is in Missouri) I suggest you do a little research. No one is insulting the people who chose to belong. It is their choice and most are fine people. Just like most Baptists are fine people. But learn a little bit about the faith before you call people liars. You will be better off for it.
Terri on August 5, 2007 at 4:11 PM
Yes, jambus, it’s quite interesting which aspects of the LDS church the Mormon leaders choose to emphasize and which ones they’d prefer to keep on the back burner. Milk before meat, as they say. By the way, I’ve lived in Utah for 25 years now. Nice place, weird church.
packsoldier on August 5, 2007 at 4:13 PM
Look, the last 2 presidential elections were razor thin Republican victories. That may have been understandable in 2000 (strong peacetime economy), but 49% of the popular vote to a defeatist party in wartime (2004) was downright terrifying. And then the congressional landslide for the Dhimmis last year. With those bracing numbers in mind, the albatross of “Second Coming in Missouri” just isn’t worth the risk. Yes, the MSM will have a field day with Giuliani’s private life, but that’s something everyone can at least relate to (if not excuse), while the more bizarre beliefs of Mormons will come off as alien spaceship stuff once the MSM gets through with them. I believe it will cost Romney the crucial margin of support he’d need to inch over the 50% line. I like him, but I can’t see him beating Hillary, and that has to be the bottom line.
Halley on August 5, 2007 at 4:55 PM
Thanks. I missed the Hillary thread yesterday.
Spirit of 1776 on August 5, 2007 at 5:17 PM
Jesus Christ plays a very small role in the Mormon Church. They do believe that Joseph Smith will come back to rule in Missouri (not Jerusalem), and that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer. They also believe that if you do what they tell you to do and Joseph Smith let’s you be saved that YOU become a god. There is no Trinity and the Father of Jesus (aka God) also had a father.
The Mormon church twists the Bible the same way Islam does and they hide behind the fact that all Jesus provided in their religion was a chance for mankind to experience resurrection and then work on after death to become a god themselves. The LDS church is a mixture of Masonic ritual and beliefs(not Christian), along with Joseph Smith’s misinterpretation of the Bible.
Hening on August 5, 2007 at 5:54 PM
I suggest you read “The God Makers” by Decker. The Mormon Church is shrouded in secrecy and most Mormons have no idea what their church is really all about. You have to step up in temple worship in order to pass into new levels of wisdom just like Masonic ritual. The Mormon Church sees Joseph Smith as the savior, not Jesus Christ. If Mitt says that both Jerusalem and Missouri are the center of the new order (there can be just one) he is either telling a lie to cover himself with Scripture and hide the truth according to Mormon, or he is clueless about his own faith. I’m betting it is the latter and he has not reached the higher levels of temple worship.
Due to a high rate of incest, many Mormon leaders are in fact recommending abortion. Incest is rampant in polygamous Mormon families.
Hening on August 5, 2007 at 6:02 PM
Yeah, those Mormons are a bunch of psychonauts.
Why, they go to church, mow their lawns, wash their cars, treat others with kindness and compassion, outreach to the poor and the hungry. NOBODY can be that perfect. Its all a conspiracy I tell you, they’re really making child sacrifices to bring back their dark God who will smite all of us in one mighty blow.
Yeah Henning, some Mormon beliefs are crazy. Who the f$#k cares? Are you expecting the endtimes to come tomorrow? If so, I’m pretty sure Revelations has some pretty screwed up/disturbing imagery going on too.
So, Evil seven headed beast, hellfire, and four horsemen is a reasonable assessment of the endtimes, but believing in Joseph Smith’s imminent return lands you in crazyville.
I don’t care about what the endtimes portion of a religion says. I care about how it tells them to lead their lives on earth. Mormons by nearly every count are modern-day saints.
Muslims on the other hand… BOOM!
BKennedy on August 5, 2007 at 6:09 PM
Mormons do not believe in the Trinity.
Mormons do not believe that God (Jewish/Christian God) created the universe
Mormons do not believe that Christ is the same as God the Father. They believe he is God’s oldest Son.
Mormons do not believe that the Holy Spirit is God (he’s described as a special liquid)
Mormons do not believe that Jesus is the way to salvation
Mormons do not believe in Hell
Mormons added the name “Jesus Christ” to their name to gain converts. You can’t be Christian and Mormon
For a good understanding of Scripture compared to the Book of Mormon, read “Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Mormons”, by Rhodes and Bodine
Hening on August 5, 2007 at 6:16 PM
The country had the same debate over JFK. Just “Al Gore” hadn’t created the internet yet so all the wakko Catholic haters didn’t sprawl their crap on the blogs.
Instead we get all the anti-LDS wakkos who don’t know jack or learned inaccurate information from other haters.
There are plenty of real reasons not to like Mitt, however his Mormonism isn’t one of them.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on August 5, 2007 at 6:26 PM
That has not been my point. It is just concerning that on a site with educated people that I enjoy reading, this discussion is way off the mark in terms of belief systems.
Revelations is Apocalyptic verse, which was a Semitic form of religious writing thousands of years ago. It uses imagery and imaginative play on words (in the original language), which must have impressed you since you seem to recall it quite well.
Joseph Smith coming back as a god and ruling the Mormon world empire from Missouri after the end time, being signaled with a Mormon elected president is a different, and less artistic form of prediction.
Hening on August 5, 2007 at 6:35 PM
I think anyone who Believes in a religion is kind of nutty. But some are more nutty than others. The whole idea of a person that believes Mary got pregnant without doin’ the nasty calling someone with different beliefs crazy, is ludicrous.
All the Mormons I’ve ever met have been super people. Way better than average. If y’all are going to cast stones, how about lets focus on that religion that wants to kill us.
Brothers unit and follow me. I will lead you to paradise!
TheSitRep on August 5, 2007 at 6:38 PM
Mormons do not believe in Hell
Hening on August 5, 2007 at 6:16 PM
If so, good for them, I don’t believe in that wacko stuff either.
MB4 on August 5, 2007 at 6:43 PM
Hmmm… Mitt or Hillary. Which Apocalypse will I choose? Socialist Nightmare or a bunch of happy Mormons…
I know which Apocalypse I prefer.
I have ni delusions about Giuliani. There’s no proof he’s Hillary Bane. Heck, he runs from her in the state he grew up in and she carpetbagged.
BKennedy on August 5, 2007 at 6:52 PM
I saw a comment on http://www.jihadwatch.com some time ago by a commenter by the “handle” of “Engineer-Poet” and saved it. Although I dod not agree with it in full I thought that it had considerable merit.
From some of the discussion here you can substitute Mormon for atheist.
If the well is poisoned, it’s because self-styled Christians have poisoned it. The Christian Renewal movement has explicitly attacked the Constitutional separation of church and state (and its prohibition on religious tests for public office). Where in the USA could anyone run for office, even dogcatcher, and get elected as an avowed
atheistMormon?AtheistsMormonsare perhaps
8-16%1-2% ? of the US population, but are about 0.2% of persons in prison. The objective evidence saysatheistsare more law-abiding thanChristiansother Christians, and far more law-abiding than Muslims. Despite this, lots of Christian sects relentlessly attackatheistsMormons. Why? Because they’re “the competition”? Because someone who doesn’t believe believes differently is a bigger threat thansomeone who believes in Allah? Because they’re a disunited minority, and safe to attack with impunity? (How very un-Christlike.)
It’s hypocrisy like this which destroyed my own belief. Atheists would be right alongside you in this battle if you weren’t so busy driving them away. If you want allies, SHUT YER DAMN PIE–HOLES. Quit demanding special respect or privileges for any religion; Islam will be destroyed if theocracy is criminalized, but Christianity will not. Purge
religious dogma from public schools and public funding; Islam is a parasite and cannot survive without it, any more than Marxism can. And respect other people, inwardly as much as outwardly (in other words, exactly as an observant Muslim cannot do);
atheistsMormons may be as mistaken as the observers of contrary sects, but that does not make themevil. If you want their support, don’t treat them that way.I saw a comment on http://www.jihadwatch.com some time ago by a commenter by the “handle” of “Engineer-Poet” and saved it. Although I do not agree with it in full and it is a bit too “lecturing” for me I think that it has considerable merit.
From some of the discussion here you can substitute Mormon for atheist. I just hope that I got most of the strikes and bolds correct.
If the well is poisoned, it’s because self-styled Christians have poisoned it. The Christian Renewal movement has explicitly attacked the Constitutional separation of church and state (and its prohibition on religious tests for public office). Where in the USA could anyone run for office, even dogcatcher, and get elected as an avowed
atheistMormon?AtheistsMormonsare perhaps
8-16%1-2% ? of the US population, but are about 0.2% of persons in prison. The objective evidence saysatheistsMormons are more law-abiding thanChristiansother Christians, and far more law-abiding than Muslims. Despite this, lots of Christian sects relentlessly attackatheistsMormons. Why? Because they’re “the competition”? Because someone whodoesn’t believebelieves differently is a bigger threat thansomeone who believes in Allah? Because they’re a
disunited minorityminority, and safe to attack with impunity? (How very un-Christlike.)It’s hypocrisy like this which destroyed my own belief.
AtheistsMormons would be right alongside you in this battle if you weren’t so busy driving them away. If you want allies, SHUT YER DAMN PIE–HOLES. Quit demanding special respect or privileges for any religion; Islam will be destroyed if theocracy is criminalized, but Christianity will not. Purgereligious dogma from public schools and public funding; Islam is a parasite and cannot survive without it, any more than Marxism can. And respect other people, inwardly as much as outwardly (in other words, exactly as an observant Muslim cannot do);
atheistsMormons may be as mistaken as the observers of contrary sects, but that does not make themevilevil or crazy. If you want their support, don’t treat them that way.MB4 on August 5, 2007 at 7:15 PM
Well I sure screwed that up.
MB4 on August 5, 2007 at 7:16 PM
I saw a comment on http://www.jihadwatch.com some time ago by a commenter by the “handle” of “Engineer-Poet” and saved it. Although I do not agree with it in full and it is a bit too “lecturing” for me I think that it has considerable merit.
From some of the discussion here you can substitute Mormon for atheist. I just hope that I got most of the strikes and bolds correct.
If the well is poisoned, it’s because self-styled Christians have poisoned it. The Christian Renewal movement has explicitly attacked the Constitutional separation of church and state (and its prohibition on religious tests for public office). Where in the USA could anyone run for office, even dogcatcher, and get elected as an avowed
atheistMormon?AtheistsMormonsare perhaps
8-16%1-2% ? of the US population, but are about 0.2% of persons in prison. The objective evidence saysatheistsMormons are more law-abiding thanChristiansother Christians, and far more law-abiding than Muslims. Despite this, lots of Christian sects relentlessly attackatheistsMormons. Why? Because they’re “the competition”? Because someone whodoesn’t believebelieves differently is a bigger threat thansomeone who believes in Allah? Because they’re a
disunited minorityminority, and safe to attack with impunity? (How very un-Christlike.)It’s hypocrisy like this which destroyed my own belief.
AtheistsMormons would be right alongside you in this battle if you weren’t so busy driving them away. If you want allies, SHUT YER DAMN PIE–HOLES. Quit demanding special respect or privileges for any religion; Islam will be destroyed if theocracy is criminalized, but Christianity will not. Purgereligious dogma from public schools and public funding; Islam is a parasite and cannot survive without it, any more than Marxism can. And respect other people, inwardly as much as outwardly (in other words, exactly as an observant Muslim cannot do);
atheistsMormons may be as mistaken as the observers of contrary sects, but that does not make themevilevil or crazy. If you want their support, don’t treat them that way.MB4 on August 5, 2007 at 7:17 PM
Allahpundit, if you are watching, please delete my screwed up August 5, 2007 at 7:15 PM comment as it will give everyone, including me, a headache!
MB4 on August 5, 2007 at 7:21 PM
So, what you’re saying is that all teachings have to have context so they can be understood.
GREAT! Time for you to stick your uninformed opinion based on that fool ed decker on the shelf until you have the proper context.
Where do you and your ilk come from? The trinity? Really? Please name the chapter and verse you find that word in.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 7:28 PM
Are you saying that, because the word “trinity” does not appear in the Bible, that the whole concept is invalidated. C’mon, I expected more from you.
Jesus as God
John 10:30 – I and the Father are one. (Jesus speaking.)
John 14:9 – Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Luke 22:66-71 – At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. 67″If you are the Christ,” they said, “tell us.” Jesus answered, “If I tell you, you will not believe me, and if I asked you, you would not answer. But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God.”
They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You are right in saying I am.” Then they said, “Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips.” (meaning, at Jesus’ trial, the priests considered his testimony blasphemy because he called himself God.)
The Holy Spirit as God
John 14:25-26 – “All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (Jesus considers the Holy Spirit his equal.)
John 16:13a – But when the Holy Spirit comes, who is truth, he will guide you into all truth. He will not be presenting his own ideas; he will be passing on to you what he has heard. (Jesus says the Holy Spirit is truth; only God is truth.)
Acts 5:3-4 – Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.” (Peter says that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God.)
So we have God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Three-in-one aka The Trinity. Is that clearer?
Mallard T. Drake on August 5, 2007 at 8:26 PM
Theological flamewar in 5..4..3..2..
Anyway, I prefer not to split hairs over religion in political forums. I’ll do it is some nutter starts taking inanities about Catholicism, but I try to do it in a witty way.
Like I said, I don’t care about the endtimes. I know neither the place nor the hour, and somebody’s apocalyptic verse has to be right. I also don’t care that much about the truth or fiction of creation and/or other moral stories from the beginning. I care about how a religion tells you to treat your fellow men. Muslims are called to kill the kufar and establish sharia law and worldwide submission to Islam. Mormons are apparently called to be real-life versions of Ned Flanders.
In a vote between a Mormon and a Socialist, the Mormon is guarenteed to bring me and everyone else in America less harm.
If you don’t like Mitt for being a member of the LDS, you should like Hillary, Obama, and Edwards less for going to the Church of Liberalism, which has no God, no morals, and celebrates the work of monsters like Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol-Pot, Hitler, and Che Guavera. Karl Marx would turn in his grave if he knew what the Marxists have done to his name. His theories always struck me as completely naive, but he wasn’t a leader and he wasn’t a politician. He was a professor who saw only the qualities of human goodness and altruism, who had his ideas usurped by people who wanted to use them for personal power. His biggest sin was not accounting for human vice.
BKennedy on August 5, 2007 at 8:51 PM
I was pretty disappointed nobody brought this up today as part of debate. If they had you would have seen a very smart and well informed person talk about how Hezbollah and Hamas came to power. Romney laid it all out in a paper that was published by Foreign Affairs magazine.
A taste:
Gee, what a concept, a president who actually understands the tactics of our enemy and has a plan to not just kill terrorists, but prevent more from taking the radical path.
JackStraw on August 5, 2007 at 8:52 PM
This is to supplement my previous post. This time I quoted from the King James Version of the Bible. I understand that is the accepted version in the Mormon church.
Duet 6:4 – Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. (there is only one God, not three separate gods.)
Isaiah 43:10 – Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
(There is one God, NOT the sudden appearance of two other gods: the Son and the Holy Spirit.)
Isaiah 44: 6 & 8 – 6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. (There is one God, who is a triune God. There are no others.)
Matthew 28:18-19 – And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. (The triune God, who is one God.)
It’s all there in the Bible: The Trinity, the three-in-one God, not three separate gods.
Mallard T. Drake on August 5, 2007 at 9:00 PM
But JackStraw, there was a paragraph long statement devoid of any other context! It MUST have been TRUE!
That whole topic reeked of amatuer hour. Sorry guys, you do a great job 90+% of the time, but missed the mark on that one. The trend in Romney topics seems to go:
1. Topic: Shocking Soundbite! Romney is doomed!
2. Hollowpoint Rant [filling in today, EricPWJohnson] (just messin’ with ya buddy[ies])
3. No wait, Romney actually knows what he’s talking about.
4. Topic dies/gets rolled out of sight.
BKennedy on August 5, 2007 at 9:03 PM
No, I’m saying that without context, everything can appear to be wacky.
For instance…..you just said that the three members of the Godhead are one being. So, answer this question…..
When God is in the mode of the Holy Ghost or God the father, what does he do with his Jesus skin? Does he hang it on a hanger and is that hanger of the wire or wood variety?
Now, you will no doubt interject some CONTEXT to explain this. Fair enough, but you have no context to explain the beliefs of the LDS faith, so you ought to just leave it to those who do.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 9:34 PM
First: no one truly understands God’s existence as a three-in-one being. CS Lewis said that us trying to comprehend God as three-in-one is like a square trying to comprehend the 3D qualities of a cube. Anyone who says they understand God’s physical existence, is mistaken. We know who and what he is; understanding will come when we are with Him in Heaven.
Secondly, I have not questioned LDS beliefs in this thread, though from my general understanding I don’t agree with them. But, the Mormons do not believe in the Trinity, so I have shown that that belief is contrary to the Bible. How have I erred?
You never answered my question yes or no if you are a Mormon. If you are not, you have shown an passion defense for a faith in which you are not a part or believe.
Mallard T. Drake on August 5, 2007 at 9:51 PM
Notice how only csdeven can understand what Romney is really saying and how only Mormons can really understand what the Mormon Church says?
Listen csdeven I understand perfectly well what Romney said about Hizballah and it shows just how little he knows about them and their objectives. There is a hell of a lot more to stopping the Islamic threat then “health diplomacy”, you can appease them all you want, it doesn’t stop them from hating Jews or any other infidel. Plus he is so far of the mark he doesn’t even have a clue that it’s Hizballah the copying us. We do more humanitarian work in one year than Hizballah has ever done.
As for you faith, most people know plenty about it and give it no more creedence than Islam, Jehovah’s Witnesses,
Christian Science or any other false religion. So when you come on these boards and try to defend it or claim that you’re a Christian be prepared for people react accordingly. There isn’t anyone presecuting you, they’re just pointing out the absurdity of what you beleive. If you can’t handle it tough but don’t try to paint everyone that doesn’t agree with a bigot or “ill informed”. It gets real old.
lowandslow on August 5, 2007 at 10:02 PM
No, clearly you don’t understand. There’s a hell of a lot more to Romney’s plan for defeating radical Islam that health diplomacy. I even gave a link to a recently published article which details his understanding of the threat and his comprehensive plan for dealing with it. Here it is again. Go read that and then tell me Romney doesn’t understand the threat. Better yet, show me other candidate that has come close to putting out such a comprehensive document.
JackStraw on August 5, 2007 at 10:19 PM
Which is the reason for the way I framed the question. Hening is using anti-mormon talking points that he gets from mormon hater sites and literature. He has no context behind the teachings of the LDS church, yet acts like he is an authority.
When pressed on the teachings of Christianity that are considered very odd and make no sense, he wants to give context to explain the teaching.
Well, the LDS deserve the same consideration. The haters have no context and couldn’t care less because they want to frame everything from their understanding.
Well, I say to him, that God, who IS NOT a God of confusion, revealed at the baptism of Christ that the three members of the Godhead are separate and distinct personages. Christ in the water, the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove, and the fathers voice coming from heaven. God went out of his way to reveal the three personages, BUT Hening says God REALLY wants us to think he is one and the same. Pardon me, but his “understanding” leaves much to be desired and I will not give his lies about others religions any weight whatsoever.
Hening did, and you responded to me from the question I asked him/her here……
So, it is completely rational that I answer you as if you agreed with his comment. Sorry, but it was an honest misunderstanding.
I haven’t because it is irrelevant to the discussion. I am able to defend any position I am versed on.
Just as Romney’s faith is irrelevant to his candidacy. Which I know that you agree with. Lets scrutinize him for his qualifications to be POTUS, not theological leader of the USA.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 10:25 PM
You are just the typical Mormon hater. You get all your information from anti-Mormon sites and literature. You cannot defend your own beliefs, so you attacks others. Your vile comments are the worst kind of bigotry based on ignorance and fear. Fear fostered by your pastors who cannot afford to lose membership because that depletes the coffers and they can’t afford their Caddy’s and expensive homes.
And lastly, you have no idea what faith I am, but it is clear that you are threatened by the LDS, because you can’t draw people to your faith on it’s merits. You have to attack others and create mythical threats from other faiths just to keep membership up.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 10:33 PM
I have to believe from your comments that you do not believe in the trinity or triune God. I have shown verses of the Bible declaring each of the members of the trinity is God and God is one. So, Hening is not wrong. Now, are we wrong in our understanding of Mormonism and their lack of belief in the Trinity and a triune God? If that is so, how do they square that belief with what the Bible says about the subject?
I understand your point is that those not part of a religion can’t fully understand that religion. I have experienced that debating Christianity with atheists. However, in making your point, you raise other issues, such as the Trinity, without explaining what Mormons believe. Instead of say “you don’t know,” how about showing us what our “misunderstanding” is.
Mallard T. Drake on August 5, 2007 at 10:35 PM
Talk about a “hater.” Jeez, the irony in that post is thick enough to cut with a knife.
Mallard T. Drake on August 5, 2007 at 10:37 PM
Coming around the first turn its McCain and Huckabee battling for thirdBut wait its Mike Huckabeemaking a bid into the top tier. Why yes I think we have a new big three!
sonnyspats1 on August 5, 2007 at 10:43 PM
Yes he is wrong.
Before I accept your demand that the LDS faith square itself with the bible, you must square the erroneous teaching of the trinity with the events that took place at the baptism of Christ, which CLEARLY describe a Godhead composed of three separate and distinct personages.
csdeven on August 5, 2007 at 10:50 PM
csdeven, e-buddy, what is relevant to me is – are you buying us drinks in San Diego, if we’re not Mormon? If you are Mormon, what can we buy you? Remember, I don’t like to drink, thus, not expensive. Also, I don’t care if you are or aren’t anything, so long as you will not vote for Hillary. I don’t even care about that, so long as you know what you’re doing (not you csdeven, anyone).
Entelechy on August 5, 2007 at 10:57 PM
I detect a flaw in logic here. How do you define context: being a member of the faith? reading a lot about the religion. I would think to have full context of a religion, you have to a believer. Beyond that you can know it intellectually, but have no complete understanding.
You act as an authority on Mormonism, yet you won’t state if you are a Mormon. Therefore we can assume you are not, so you have as little context as the rest of us or you are a Mormon and are talking down to us without providing the context of your understanding of their faith.
Mallard T. Drake on August 5, 2007 at 10:58 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »