Grim milestone: Iraqis bleed their way to nonsectarianism
posted at 6:55 pm on August 3, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Via the University of Michigan, you can’t call this “good news” given the cost but you can surely call it “better than the alternative.” The Kurds want their own state, as we’ve known all along, but then the Kurds aren’t the big problem. The jump in overall Muslim opinion in just 11 months’ time is amazing; if only there were some way to transfer it to Maliki’s crackpot party and their equally suspicious confreres.
Of all the various mistakes Bush has made, I wonder if in the end the killer won’t turn out to be his support for Maliki over Allawi, Adel Abdul Mahdi, or some other Shiite alternative.
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hmmm, might be better news than you think. The surge is only half the battle, the other half is getting the Iraqi politicians to drop this tribal bunk and get with the national program.
A strong sense of national identity is certainly a start.
John from OPFOR on August 3, 2007 at 7:07 PM
This is more bad news for the Defeatocrats.
I’m sure they’ll continue their ostrich imitation.
omnipotent on August 3, 2007 at 7:11 PM
Bush’s biggest mistake is failing to repeatedly remind the American People that it took us 12 years work out the details of our own constitution. For failing to repeatedly remind the American People that it took us 10 years to bring violence under control in Germany and Japan after WWII.
We have become instant pop corn instant gratification junkies strung out on pop tarts and movies on demand. Bush warned us in the beginning that this was going to be a long hard fight, but then he proceeded to follow in his fathers footsteps and make the same mistake that cost his father a second term.
He said his piece and then went into the White House and promptly ignored the general electorate. Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan were two of America’s most beloved Presidents because they understood that Americans need to be reassured. They understood and took the time to communicate with the American people on a regular basis with regard to what they were doing and why they were doing it. Both of the Bush’s have failed miserably in this incredibly important task.
The chart you posted is showing exactly what Bush’s strategy for Iraq is and always has been. AQI has made that task both harder and easier, by murdering so many Iraqi’s AQI is turning the Iraqi people away from a theocracy and into a secular democracy. But the cost in human lives and the disruption of the Iraqi economy and political process is taking a very heavy toll.
doriangrey on August 3, 2007 at 7:14 PM
What we need is for the Iraqi government to get its act together and start acting like a national government. Having the people starting to think of themselves all as Iraqis is a good thing, but its the government we have to convince.
If we had the stones for it, we would simply sit them down and tell them that, since they can’t seem to work together, we are going to partition the country into 3 seperate countries (sunni, shia and kurd), one of which is going to get ALL of the oil fields. We will determine who gets the oil fields by a random draw among the three new countries, too bad so sad for the other two.
Oh, and by the way, the U.S. will only guarantee the security and defense of the country with the oil, will withdraw all military into that country, will cut off all aid and all reconstruction funds to the two that end up without the oil, etc.
Want to bet how long they would continue with this partisan crap?
Fatal on August 3, 2007 at 7:17 PM
yah, I can dig what you’re saying dorian.
Average 10 years to beat a dedicated insurgency. We’ve done it quick in places like Honduras, folks like the Brits have done it not-so-quick in places like Northern Ireland.
Almost universally though, the solutions are political…not military.
John from OPFOR on August 3, 2007 at 7:19 PM
i think this is great news.
zane on August 3, 2007 at 7:24 PM
All true John, but we all know these things need to be explained effectively, Bush made the huge mistake of letting the leftist media enact their own agenda and narrative. In the US, communication is vital, and Bush has been an utter failure in that regard, letting the left frame the progress of the war.
Bad Candy on August 3, 2007 at 7:28 PM
OK guys….here is my conspiracy moment……
It is possible that Bush’s failure to articulate the plan was a calculated risk to look totally incompetent and thereby get the dems on record as being anti-war, knowing full well that we would have success just before the 08 election and hang the dems on their petards.
We already have the dems on record as saying that a successful surge hurts them (Good God! how pathetic!) and Dingy Harry salivating over a gain in senate seats and possible the presidency over a US loss in Iraq.
All I can say is…..
ROVE! You magnificent bastard!!!
csdeven on August 3, 2007 at 7:33 PM
John from OPFOR on August 3, 2007 at 7:19 PM
While this is true and I will not dispute it one must always bear in mind that without a certain degree of civil stability there can be no political solution. Political solutions only work in an atmosphere in which those engaging in the political process are not terrified into disengaging from the political process.
There must come a point in time where the violence involved in social reform abates to something that can be handled at a jurisprudence level. Political solutions only work when the general population believe that justice is truly at hand and equal for every member of society.
The chart that Allahpundit posted seems to suggest that the Iraqi people are coming to believe that justice can only apply when it is applied to every individual regardless of their religious or ethnic background. With a sense of equitable justice will come a trust of the political process.
No political system can be truly effective if the people do not believe that justice applies to everyone equally. If they do not believe that justice is blind they will never trust their leaders and they will always suffer the violence associated with tribal vigilante justice.
doriangrey on August 3, 2007 at 7:36 PM
csdeven on August 3, 2007 at 7:33 PM
If Rove were even 1/10th of the evil genius the left makes him out to be this wouldn’t be a conspiracy theory, it would be a fact.
doriangrey on August 3, 2007 at 7:39 PM
When is the next election?
sonnyspats1 on August 3, 2007 at 7:43 PM
Quite right. It was Rove who cut his teeth on the fake Apollo moon landing right? lol
csdeven on August 3, 2007 at 7:51 PM
You need to lay of The Keith Richards’ Father.
- The Cat
P.S. Had too.
MirCat on August 3, 2007 at 7:56 PM
Okay so they think of themselves as Iraqis now, but do they still think that infidels are pigs and apes?
CyberCipher on August 3, 2007 at 8:11 PM
They may be learning to use their minds instead of their emotions to govern their thought process. The democraps ought to take note of this, maybe even they can learn.
leanright on August 3, 2007 at 8:12 PM
% of Iraqis describing selfs as “Iraqis above all”
Guess it all depends on what the meaning of Iraqis is and what the meaning of above is and what the meaning of is is to them.
MB4 on August 3, 2007 at 9:14 PM
Bush warned us in the beginning that this was going to be a long hard fight
doriangrey on August 3, 2007 at 7:14 PM
As I recall Bush’s “going to be a long hard fight” was for “The War on Terror”, not nation building in Iraq.
MB4 on August 3, 2007 at 9:17 PM
ROVE! You
magnificentSTUPID bastard!!!csdeven on August 3, 2007 at 7:33 PM
MB4 on August 3, 2007 at 9:19 PM
They may be learning to use their minds instead of their emotions to govern their thought process. The democraps ought to take note of this, maybe even they can learn.
leanright on August 3, 2007 at 8:12 PM
I may be learning to use my wings instead of my feet to move from place to place. The skeptics ought to take note of this, maybe even they can learn to fly.
MB4 on August 3, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Maybe American Muslims who call themselves Muslims first and Americans second can learn from it as well.
Connie on August 3, 2007 at 10:55 PM
GREAT POINT
Gatordoug on August 3, 2007 at 11:08 PM
So the Iraqis’ tendency to identify with a nation instead of a sect has DOUBLED in the past 11 months?
Add that to the all the rest of the overwhelming measurable aspects of the progress in Iraq, and we don’t need a “conspiracy” to make the Democrats’ defeatist position blow up in their faces. All we need is to get the word out.
We can’t get past the liberal propaganda machine 12 months a year, but if we put our minds to it, we can sure as Hell make it happen next November – IF we get the right candidate.
Fred Thompson has said he plans to spend the last six weeks before the election talking about absolutely nothing except the progress we’ve made in Iraq and EXACTLY what will happen if the Democrats pull out the troops: a return to genocide, totalitarianism, and an expanded base of operations for our enemies.
Not exactly a tough choice there.
logis on August 3, 2007 at 11:52 PM
Fred Thompson has said he plans to spend the last six weeks before the election talking about absolutely nothing except the progress we’ve made in Iraq”
logis on August 3, 2007 at 11:52 PM
I am afraid then that Fred may well have the dims right where they want him.
Sigh.
MB4 on August 4, 2007 at 12:02 AM
Yeah, I think we’ve picked up on that.
logis on August 4, 2007 at 12:08 AM
Actually, great news, and I don’t know if I buy the reasons spelled out in that study 100%. But all I can say now is, time for new elections. And perhaps the people of Iraq will demand that soon.
conservnut on August 4, 2007 at 9:34 AM
Yeah, I think we’ve picked up on that.
logis on August 4, 2007 at 12:08 AM
Oh, I get it!
Took me about all of about .3 seconds.
Don’t be too hard on me, not all of us can be courageous Keyboard Rangers.
MB4 on August 4, 2007 at 1:30 PM
The whole point of a constitutional process is that the country’s fate doesn’t rely on the whims of one man. Our troops are there to defend the PROCESS, not its figurehead.
Trying to get barbarians to understand – starting completely from scratch – the concepts of freedom and forbearance could never be quick or easy. But in the case of Iraq, it has moved at an inconceivable pace.
As long as our soldiers are there, this progress will continue, and the big picture will keep improving. As long as that is happening, the details will take care of themselves – and Maliki is just one of those details.
logis on August 4, 2007 at 2:16 PM
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