If the artist stole the crucifix from the church then dunked it, it would be a hate crime (assuming the artist’s intent was with animus towards Christians)

tommylotto on July 31, 2007 at 11:38 AM

Oh, so if the guy bought the koran and did the same thing, then it would be “artistic expression” and not a “hate crime” right?

And I do assume the “artist’s” intent was animus towards Christians. I don’t think he was trying to tell everyone how much he loved Jesus.

Can we make burning the flag a capital offense?

Kowboy on July 31, 2007 at 11:14 AM

No.

Esthier on July 31, 2007 at 11:53 AM

That’s ok. I have a T-shirt with a picture of the flag on it. Below it, it says “Burn this flag and I will gouge out your eyes and skull f*ck you”. My wife won’t go out with me when I wear it. lol

Religion begat prosperity, and the daughter ate the mother. – Cotton Mather

The constitutional right to freedom of religion means that I am not forced to respect what others regard as holy.

Also, the flushed Qurans may not have been stolen. They were allegedly taken from a “meditation room”, and news reports indicate they were paperback editions. It’s quite possible that they were being made available to the public for free, just like Christian missionary groups do with bibles.

And from news reports that describe the Qurans in question as being paperback editions, my guess is that they may not have been stolen, but rather were available in the meditation room for free, just as Christian missionaries make bibles available.

In any case, either he’s not guilty of anything or just guilty of shitting on someone else’s book. To my reading of the First Amendment, it’s my right to shit on any book I possess legally.

Someone should start a legal fund for Shmulevich.

Someone please tell me why my controller loses its wireless connection sometimes and won’t reconnect unless I reboot :/

lorien1973 on July 31, 2007 at 10:21 AM

Stop throwing them in the toilet for starters.

Apparently, a student is being charged with a “Hate Crime” for throwing a Koran in the toilet. This brings up an interesting point: what is a “hate crime”? Well, here is a list of new hate crimes coming your way:……

I don’t get any of this….

And how can Muslims be a “minority” when they’re always trumpeting that there are “1.2 billions Muslims” (or 1.3 billion, or more, depending on the speaker)?

I’ve heard some speakers say three billion. Of course these were the same guys that kept telling me the population of Kabul was “around 40 million”.

Throwing the Koran in the toilet is just as intolerant as burning the flag. Would you agree? Yes or No.

God forbid anyone be intolerant of the religion that killed three thousand people on 911.

The idea of a thoughtcrime should be revoked.

It is anti-Constitutional and anti-First Amendment to criminalize non-violent protest or contrariann beliefs.

I’ll donate replacements for the two squishy Korans if Pace U. wants.

Even though I believe in a:

No to Islam’s hate-

-reading the Koran is useful intellectual self-defense.

If you negligently kill someone, its not a crime.

I’m fairly certain that negligence is not a defense to murder, hence stupid parents who leave their babies in hot cars or just don’t feed their children, are still guilty of a crime, but yes, intent does matter when it comes to a crime.

Yep, it’s Manslaughter. Another good example would be failure to follow safety procedures that result in death. Not malicious, but negligent, and criminally punishable.

So why isn’t Ted Kennedy in jail? Maybe if he had a Koran in his car when it went in the drink…

I forgot which thread and which Hotair pundit wrote it, but the idea that Muslim reactionaries carry a threat of violence that Christians don’t is spot on. Serrano (the Piss Christ artist) might have had a death threat or two, but I doubt they were credible and there was never the threat of riot, or random violence. Compare Christopher Hitchens and Salman Rushdie. Hitchens wrote a whole book attacking God (I know, all gods, including the Muslim one, but Hitchens lives in the West where his challenges are primarily to Christianity). Rushdie wrote passages in a work of fiction. Who went into hiding? One author was threatened with real violence, the other is on the lecture circuit.

To be thrown in jail, our criminal law system requires more than you did a bad thing. You must also have done it with a bad intent

tommylotto on July 31, 2007 at 12:17 PM

I’m no lawyer, but if that’s the case, then how is this possible?

Michael Straw, 25, and Iana Straw, 23, pleaded guilty Friday to two counts each of child neglect. Each faces a maximum 12-year prison sentence.

Their charge is child neglect.

Or this one:

If convicted of second-degree murder and felony child neglect, a Ruckersville woman could be sentenced to as many as 50 years in prison for the death of her infant son, who was left inside a car and died of heat exposure.

Though I will say, some of this seems to vary by state.

In crimnal law, you always take into account the state of mind of the accused. Its called mens rea. If you negligently kill someone, its not a crime. If you recklessly kill someone its manslaughter. If you kill someone intentionally its murder. If you kill someone to overthrow the government, its treason. If you poop on someone elses Koran its vandalism, but if you did it with animus towards a minority group (as this schmuck admitted), it is a hate crime.

The reason you get off easier for manslaughter is not because the crime is any less than murder, but rather leniency is given in that case because of heat of passion, provocation, or diminished responsibilty. So mens rea reduces the punishment crime. To use mens rea to increase the crime is to enforce thought crime.

Yes we do, it’s called marriage…

right2bright on July 31, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Ah… but somtimes that becomes a Hate crime as well… LOL

The Korans themselves, who placed them there, and who owned them?

If this is a common “meditation” room, were there other religious texts there?

For it to be theft, you have to have a plaintif, someone needs to step up as the OWNER of the book. The complaint talks about a “custodian” of the property… but not an owner.

What’s the penalty for love crimes, by the way? We do have those, right?
JunkCoast on July 31, 2007 at 10:52 AM

Yes we do, it’s called marriage…

I’m fairly certain that negligence is not a defense to murder, hence stupid parents who leave their babies in hot cars or just don’t feed their children, are still guilty of a crime, but yes, intent does matter when it comes to a crime.

Esthier on July 31, 2007 at 11:53 AM

You can be held civilly liable for negligently killing someone — wrongful death. But you cannot be criminally liable. To be thrown in jail, our criminal law system requires more than you did a bad thing. You must also have done it with a bad intent — Mens Rea. THUS, THOUGHTS MATTER IN ALL CRIMINAL OFFENSES, INTENT IS REQUIRED IN ALL CRIMINAL OFFENSES. The idiot parents that leave their kids in the car will only be prosecuted if they are found to be reckless (knows the risks but ignored them anyway) — not negligent. If they are merely negligent, they get of scott free – but with a dead baby.

The same act can be a minor crime, a serious crime or no crime at all — all depending on the accused state of mind. This is not unusual in our criminal law system.